Yesterday, I found out the Hulk had died; how did they manage to kill off the Hulk?

It was Banner, not Hulk who was killed. An innocent, Hulk-less Banner who was murdered in cold blood. Thanks in due part to Carol and her profiling a-holes... and Hawkeye shooting him in the head and chest with a special arrow designed to kill Banner before his Hulk-out transformation could be completed.

It is important to say that the arrow was designed by Banner himself and given to Hawkeye.

Yeah but it feels like such an underwhelming way for Banner to come up with something to kill himself. You'd think he'd come up with a highly advanced robot suit or a cosmic weapon of epic power or even the old forgotten Kryptonite of Hulk; anti gamma rays. Instead it's just an arrow to stifle the transformation that kills Banner off. It was a lackluster and underwhelming way of killing off the Hulk IMO.

Yep they should had just sent him to another planet or dimension if they so scared of Hulks.

That.... really hasn't turned out well in the past.

LMAO I know I just want him to come back for vengeance again. This time not to be soft and actually kill some heroes I prefer Carol. Then again they not letting a man kill a woman in comics these days. Either way I hope this creates Maestro the sooner the better.

Oh, I was wondering, but, deep down, I also feared it would be by going after Banner; did Carol order or plan the death of the Hulk? If so, for what reason? I think there are things to catch up with, I guess, in this Civil War II Saga? Interested in seeing how they invented that special arrow and, at the beginning, I was hoping that it would not be Carol that they took down.

@dshipp17: Carol didnt intend on banner dying. The short story is this:

Civil war 2 is based on a new inhuman called Ulysses whose power is to absorb the energy around him, which his brain then uses to make accurate (yet not certain) predictions on future events. One of the predictions was banner killing everyone as the hulk. A few teams of heroes confronted banner, things got heated and Hawkeye shot him without orders. It turns out that banner designed the arrow himself and asked clint to do it if he was ever about to hulk out again.

Oh, I see; a good sacrifice for the team by Banner. But, doesn't that seem like such a waste for a character like the Hulk?

A little off topic, but, what happened to Betty Ross and her father?

@thedailybagel:

You know, has anyone speculated that maybe Gammon (from Duggan's Hulk run), may have kidnapped the real Banner? Maybe the Banner who was shot was a LMD, or a clone created by Gammon and the Leader? It would be a way to turn this whole mess around in the near future.

Have it revealed that Banner has really been held captive by Leader & Gammon this whole time and they merely staged this whole "murder" incident. It would be the one saving grace to come out of the disappointing/lackluster runs on Hulk/Banner by Mark Waid & Gerry Duggan.

Thoughts?

@lvenger yah no doubt I agree, i just wanted to make sure people understood that it was Banner himself who found a way to kill Hulk and not anybody else. Obviously there was a lot more interesting ways they could have done this...

@GreenScar1990 LMDs have been overused in my opinion. It's a cheap way Marvel got out of a lot of mess. There are so many other ways they could bring him back. I think someone stealing his body to experiment on gamma radiation and reactivating them would be a lot more original than the LMD rehash.

Just wondering if you guys are reading the Hawkeye trial comic called the Accused and if there are interesting infos in there about Banner ?

@schwarz:

Technically, Banner didn't create something to kill Hulk. He created something to kill himself before the transformation could occur, though he couldn't transform in the first place and was murdered regardless. Yeah, the whole LMD thing has been used before, but so what? The clone idea could also be used. At least with the Gammon & Leader angle, we could rectify the horrific storytelling that's taken place in Civil War 2.

I'm just trying to save Banner some face and try to figure out a way that cleans this whole mess up other than experimenting on Banner's corpse. Hell, Banner died before and Hulk instantly emerged (Check out The Incredible Hulk #225 - Is There Hulk After Death?). Besides, I recall Banner and numerous other creating powerful anti-Hulk weapons, all of which failed.

I could believe Banner creating something by utilizing a vastly all-powerful artifact (Infinity Gem, Cosmic Cube, etc.) to neutralize/kill or even have him transported to another dimension/universe, but a freaking arrow? Lame, stupid, and idiotic. Definitely not a worthy or respectful death for Banner. I'd rather seen a Hulk-less Banner fight alongside the other heroes against Thanos, or some universal/omniversal threat, and die heroically saving everyone & everything in the process.

@greenscar1990: My point is more to inform people that at least the device to kill Banner/Almost Hulk was made by Banner. I'm not saying the idea is good, in fact like everybody says, it is poorly written and a very cheap idea. I just want to clarify for those that it wasn't just an arrow. It was an arrow made by Banner. I've seen and heard people say "How come he takes bullets but an arrow kills him" where I have to step in and say "well the arrow was made by Banner to kill himself if he were to Hulk out". It's dumb, I know, like another forum user said, Banner could have created anything else more smart than an arrow to kill himself before he Hulked out. But they needed a piss poor story and so they went for that idea.

Or lets just use the rifles from Paks run, that transport people to the negative zone, which Cap threatened to use against the Hulks during the Hiro-Kala thing. It would still have been an overly drastic method, which is 99% to kill Banner, if he isn't the Hulk. Since Marvel is intend on having the cake and eating it anyways with multiple characters with the same identity, they could have Pak write a series about the depowered Banner surviving in the negative zone and ultimately being forced to repower himself with Annihilius technology from Hulk vs Thanos, to stop a threat to earth or the universe. Given that Pak has been shown to excel at both writing Banner and weaving existing continuity into his stories.

Man i was looking to start collecting again...what the fhjg have they done...who is Cho...Red Hulk...what is this crap..is there alternate world crap too like in dc? Leave the sh!t alone what is all this stupid stuff.

Time to talk about a certain one-shot that was released.

Despite my loathing of the current Marvel Comics event, Civil War 2 (and a good portion of regular Marvel titles from the company for the past couple of years), I have to confess...

The one-shot, Civil War 2: The Fallen, was superbly written by Greg Pak. It was pretty much a Hulk/Banner issue that focuses on those who were close to the brilliant scientist and his raging alter-ego. I was particularly fond of the Banner's last will and testament & the scenes involving Skaar and the Warbound.

Very powerful, poignant, touching, emotional scenes. It just goes to show that Mr. Pak can still really work the magic when he wants to. And I deeply hope he will stay on for writer of the Hulk/Banner for many, many years to come.

I mean, even if you dislike all or most current Marvel titles, or loathe the Civil War 2 event like myself, I still recommend picking up this one-shot...especially if you're a fan of the Hulk/Bruce Banner and his supporting cast.

There's a ton of great moments to be found. And potential stories that may spin out of all this. I could definitely see (and secretly hope) a Skaar/Warbound ongoing series coming into creation. If it's written by Pak, I'll definitely pick it up!

@greenscar1990: It was actually a good book. Skaar at the end still has his oldstrong powers it seems. It was cool to see the remenants of the good Hulk days.

I will just copy-paste what i already said in another thread

Spoiler warning.

Greg Pak just isn't good at writing Cho Hulk, the character just doesn't work, the action isn't there, the humor is hit and miss, etc... I've just read the Fallen and it was pretty good i genuinely liked it, it was emotional and it worked because it revolved and even featured Banner(hologram). The same thing happened with Totally Awesome Hulk 7 and 8 which both revolved around and featured Banner... Greg is simply at his best when he does Banner/Hulk, his Cho/Hulk isn't working and the sales are showing as well as reviews that are either the sites that pander to diversity so they praise it regardless or just mediocre reviews and even low reviews on more honest/unbiased sites, many sites don't even review it, just dropping the series because honestly it's become terribly boring and unfocused.

I love Greg, i hope he stays with Hulk for years and years to come, but i hope that Hulk is Banner, not Cho.

@atheistknowledge: You summed it up pretty much for me. Everytime Banner was around, the books were great, it had emotions and it felt like a real story. But as far as Cho goes, it feels forced, not funny and very very childish. I feel anything relating to Cho feels like it was written for pre teen ages and even then i'm sure pre teens have better heroes to check out. It's crazy how a guy like Greg can write very deep stories that captivate the reader and with the same character can "totally" (no pun intended) child it up and make him the most uninteresting shallow character...

@schwarz: well said that's my impression exactly

What a waste. Banner could die in a lot of awesome ways. But no we have arrow. An arrow?!!!

Hi my name is Cho watch me kick ass on my skateboard in the all new totally awesome hulk!! Yipee!

@easywolf: LOL. And he probably would be wearing a helmet with knee and elbow protectors, even though he is the Hulk he has to set an example to his preteen audience.

I'm ashamed to say that I nearly teared up after reading the fallen, and hopefully Banner's death will be kept intact long enough for him to come back in full blazing glory, WITHOUT the involvement of Bendis.

And and it seems Banner's death is setting cho in a much more Hulk oriented direction. Acting as his drive, of sort. Also, it seems that even without his gamma powers, Skaar is still a serious force to be reckoned with.

Well judging at how unoriginal Marvel is and the way they keep rehashing the same stories over and over "secret wars" "civil war" I wouldn't be surprised to see a World War Hulk 2 with Cho pissed because Banner died. That would maybe push Chulk away from the childish tone the books are going right now.

Well, that makes sense. Skaars Hulk powers always seemed almost neglectable compared to the old powers. When he couldn't or didn't use them he was beaten half to death by an untrained old power user, who had them for a few days, Red She-Hulk beat him and Daken managed to take him down, while he was unable to do much to the Savage Hulk. According to a wiki he is like a 90-tonner without it, but I don't know if that was taken from an official source.

Didn't buy the Fallen. Eulogys are to be earned the way they killed of Hulk this time didn't.

Man I'm still having a hard time thinking straight when I realize THE INCREDIBLE HULK IS A TEENIE BOPPER on a skateboard.....What are they smoking at Marvel? Seriously?

Skaar is powerful even without the Old Power. You just lack the knowledge of what he's done with & without it's use. When he first fought Red She-Hulk, she only managed to hold her own until the Avengers team ganged up on Skaar. She only hurt him in their second encounter due to Skaar being weakened by a weapon/device that the Leader gave her to eliminate his Old Power and mess with his gamma physiology. The only reason Daken was able to hurt Skaar was due to the remnants of a powerful mystical sword that he had embedded in his claws, mystically designed to temporarily cut off even the most intense healing factors.

Hiro-Amin (the Shadow Priest), while not able to control the Old Power, delivered planet-shaking blows and threatened to destroy the planet Sakaar with the Old Power just in trying to eliminate Skaar. He had access to the Old Power's immense destructive abilities, but simply lacked the control over it.

As for the fight against Savage Hulk, it wasn't a full-on battle. Hulk bashed Skaar, yet Skaar withstood everything thrown at him. It wasn't like Savage Hulk was overwhelming him.

I find it amusing how greatly people underestimate, or simply lack knowledge, how powerful Skaar is with & without the Old Power.

He physically dominated the Silver Surfer (without the aid of the Old Power; and this was after Surfer received his upgrade in Annihilation) for the majority of their battle. The only way Surfer managed to gain a brief respite/victory was to go all-out and then quickly drain Skaar of the Old Power before he could use it on the Herald of the Galactus and return it to the planet Sakaar, making Surfer weak in the process while Skaar instantly recovered from the assault.

Skaar also withstood the planet'busting blasts/blows of Hiro-Kala. And took on the Hulked-Out Avengers (consisting of Thor, Captain America/Bucky, Ms. Marvel, Spectrum, Spider-Man, Namor and War Machine), Fantastic Four (Invisible Woman, Thing and Human Torch), X-Men (Cyclops, Iceman, Storm, Wolverine) and hundreds of A.I.Marines all the while holding back. Banner made it clear to Skaar not to kill any of them.

In truth, we have yet to see the full potential of Skaar and the Old Power. All we know is that Skaar, with or without the Old Power, is immensely powerful. And all we know about the Old Power is that it's also infinitely powerful. I mean, Skaar used it to drive Galactus mad with hunger and was then it was later used by Hiro-Kala to poison the Devourer of Worlds.

That never happened. Amin went all out and destroyed a desert, but nothing more. That was a pretty young Skaar, and he evolved after those issues so that doesn't matter that much.

Also, the Hulked out Heroes fight happened mostly off-panel, and it's not like Skaar overpowered at the same time. A-bomb and Korg were there too.

Honestly, you are just highballing him.

@greenscar1990 said:

@stahlflamme said:

@schwarz said:

Well judging at how unoriginal Marvel is and the way they keep rehashing the same stories over and over "secret wars" "civil war" I wouldn't be surprised to see a World War Hulk 2 with Cho pissed because Banner died. That would maybe push Chulk away from the childish tone the books are going right now.

Not likely he is on that champion books with all the other teens they are pushing. But yeah, we probably get another World War Hulk in a year with Banner just coming back from the dead to be a straight up bad guy this time.

@theacidskull said:

I'm ashamed to say that I nearly teared up after reading the fallen, and hopefully Banner's death will be kept intact long enough for him to come back in full blazing glory, WITHOUT the involvement of Bendis.

And and it seems Banner's death is setting cho in a much more Hulk oriented direction. Acting as his drive, of sort. Also, it seems that even without his gamma powers, Skaar is still a serious force to be reckoned with.

Well, that makes sense. Skaars Hulk powers always seemed almost neglectable compared to the old powers. When he couldn't or didn't use them he was beaten half to death by an untrained old power user, who had them for a few days, Red She-Hulk beat him and Daken managed to take him down, while he was unable to do much to the Savage Hulk. According to a wiki he is like a 90-tonner without it, but I don't know if that was taken from an official source.

Didn't buy the Fallen. Eulogys are to be earned the way they killed of Hulk this time didn't.

Skaar is powerful even without the Old Power. You just lack the knowledge of what he's done with & without it's use. No, I really don't and I said its neglectable compared to his old power not weak, hes still easily stronger than the Thing and a whole bunch of other characters. When he first fought Red She-Hulk, she only managed to hold her own until the Avengers team ganged up on Skaar. She actually slammed him into the floor by the throat than fought him a little while telling him how much she enjoyed it, before she tossed spider-man towards a dimensional portal to distract him while she did what she came for. She only hurt him in their second encounter due to Skaar being weakened by a weapon/device that the Leader gave her to eliminate his Old Power and mess with his gamma physiology. Yeah, see without his old powers she beat him and and when was stated that the device called "old power disruptor" did anything with his gamma? Not to much Banner two-shotted her with his old power taser afterwards and I'm not going to believe that thing is remotely as strong as Scars old power. The only reason Daken was able to hurt Skaar was due to the remnants of a powerful mystical sword that he had embedded in his claws, mystically designed to temporarily cut off even the most intense healing factors. The healing Factor not working didn't stop Green Scar from taking down the X-men. The guy who it took to beat him without a healing factor was zeus. So I'm sorry when his healing factor didn't work isn't convince me that Scar without the old powers is anywhere close Skaar with his old powers, who could take on a way angrier Green Scar then the one who fought Zeus or the X-men.

Hiro-Amin (the Shadow Priest), while not able to control the Old Power, delivered planet-shaking blows and threatened to destroy the planet Sakaar with the Old Power just in trying to eliminate Skaar. He had access to the Old Power's immense destructive abilities, but simply lacked the control over it. There is nothing indicating his punches shook the planet and he only almost destroyed the planet, because he accidentally undid the Shadow Priests work do hold it together in the first place. And just look at how Skaar beat him, by wrapping him up with a chain and lifting him of the ground he needed to use his powers. Compare that to him separating the Juggernaut from the ground when he had his old powers, he punched him straight up into outer space.

As for the fight against Savage Hulk, it wasn't a full-on battle. Hulk bashed Skaar, yet Skaar withstood everything thrown at him. It wasn't like Savage Hulk was overwhelming him. Given that Skaar didn't land a single good hit till Savage Hulk thought the fight was over, yeah he was kinda overwhelmed physically.

I find it amusing how greatly people underestimate, or simply lack knowledge, how powerful Skaar is with & without the Old Power. If that was the case that would indeed be amusing, since Skaar really doesn't have that many comics. But I'm registering an attempt to well...

He physically dominated the Silver Surfer (without the aid of the Old Power; and this was after Surfer received his upgrade in Annihilation) for the majority of their battle. No, he really didn't. During their first fight he dominated him with his old powers, literally glowing blue in almost all of these panels, I think he was further boosted by absorbing all of the planets old power, but lets ignore that part. The only way Surfer managed to gain a brief respite/victory was to go all-out and then quickly drain Skaar of the Old Power before he could use it on the Herald of the Galactus and return it to the planet Sakaar, making Surfer weak in the process while Skaar instantly recovered from the assault. Yeah, so old power Skaar can take on the Surfer and without it he struggles with Daken...

Skaar also withstood the planet'busting blasts/blows of Hiro-Kala. And took on the Hulked-Out Avengers (consisting of Thor, Captain America/Bucky, Ms. Marvel, Spectrum, Spider-Man, Namor and War Machine), Fantastic Four (Invisible Woman, Thing and Human Torch), X-Men (Cyclops, Iceman, Storm, Wolverine) and hundreds of A.I.Marines all the while holding back. Banner made it clear to Skaar not to kill any of them. To be fair thats like saying Spider-Man has never shown his full powers cause he always makes sure not to kill anyone, but we know he's hitting bricks with his full strength. They were Hulks they don't die accidentally, even if mass produced Hulks were shown to be kind of a joke, when Hawkeye took one down in Thunderbolts. Banner just wanted that Skaar didn't actively try to murder them. Not that its not a good feat, but people need to stop acting like people not killing in superhero comics means they are greatly weaker than when they wouldn't care, its a medium in which people who don't kill constantly beat remorseless murderers with the same or greater powers.

In truth, we have yet to see the full potential of Skaar and the Old Power. All we know is that Skaar, with or without the Old Power, is immensely powerful. No, we know he isn't nearly as powerful as the old power and we know he is weaker than most forms of the actual Hulk. Likewise Skaars biggest feat without the old power is like mountain level and its a durability feat. And all we know about the Old Power is that it's also infinitely powerful. Its an artificial form of power cosmic so obviously its powerful I mean, Skaar used it to drive Galactus mad with hunger and was then it was later used by Hiro-Kala to poison the Devourer of Worlds. Terrax did the same in classic days I believe by feeding Galactus a nuclear wasteland of a planet or something. Similiarly Hiro-Kala simply poisoned the planet itself to do so.

Korean actually.

Yeah he's Korean and thats probably why they got Greg Pak to write him. Even though he wrote Hulk before but his grandparents are Korean.

They should really revive Banner as Maestro, get Skaar back into comics and fade out fake Hulk.

Maybe a world war Maestro with his son Skaar saving the world or something like that.

@schwarz:

I think a single world is too small of an conquest for the Maestro at this point. He's better off seeking universal/omniversal conquest. It'd suit him best, in more ways than one.

I also agree that Skaar needs to make a return. Would love a Skaar/Warbound ongoing series written by Greg Pak. I wouldn't mind if he'd take another shot at another Incredible Hulks ongoing that features Hulk/Banner as the leader of a team that consists of Skaar, Betty/Red She-Hulk, Jen/She-Hulk, Rick/A-Bomb, Red Hulk/General Ross, The Warbound (Korg, Elloe, No-Name), Kate Waynesboro, Amadeus Cho and Dr. Sofia Di Cosimo.

Think of them as a team that only comes together at the most dire of times. The Hulks can have solo missions. And for the biggest threats, those that are Universal/Omniversal, they can join forces and be a team when needed.

Hulk, Skaar, Red Hulk, A-Bomb, She-Hulk, Red She-Hulk and the Warbound can be the Big Guns that take on the biggest threats, whether individually or as a team. Banner, Cho and Waynesboro can utilize their scientific expertise to create/solve problems. Dr. Cosimo can aid them if they encounter forces of the mystical variety, as that's her field of expertise. And Jen can handle any legal matters that may come up.

They wanted Pak to write the book because he is known to be a great Hulk writer and created Amadeus. Couple that with having a new Hulk and diversity push and you have a book that on paper should easily sell every issue till the relaunch after issue 12 with good enough numbers. It is a series calculated by the marketing department using an equation independant of quality or a lack of it.Which is probably the problem. They pitched Amadeus Cho as Hulk, and Pak was like "Okay, sounds fun." Then they handed him a list with the characters you can include for a pay bonus at the moment and told him in which month they needed a tie-in for an event and stopped caring, while Pak was likely still working to somehow make Truth work after DC had bloated it up into some huge status quo changing event he had to coordinate with two other writers.
I can't imagine Planet Hulk being any good if someone had just went to Peter David and said: "Hulk, as Spartacus on an alien planet. Write it?" and he had went "kay.", while he was simultaneously working on a science fiction novel.

@stahlflamme: I feel like Marvel has a checklist of crap a bit too long that really makes crap books because the writters don't have as much freedom as they used too.

Kid friendly, need a girl like maddy with an attitude, Chulk needs to get his balls crushed by a few Marvel women, tie him in stories but don't make an impact at all. Kill of white Banner. At some point the SJW political crap gets sooooo heavy that you can't really make any original stories without it turning into political propaganda. I can understand it was the same with the communists back in the days but at least it made interesting stories. Now the whole thing feels fake, unnatural and forced and just reaks of homeland SJW terrorist crap. Kind of like the GhostBusters movie. Nothing wrong with a female cast of characters, but when people are replaced just for political correctness and the jokes are just forced and predictable, I feel like it is time for me to move on to something else.

@schwarz: A checklist of crap lol. Can't say it better. Fk this Civil War crap and fk these alternate universes too.

I found it strange that Lyra is not seen at all after her father's death. She wasn't in "The Fallen". So did she actually go back to that dimension (aka new Femizonia) ? If so, she should have at least got a mention.

@atheistknowledge: @thedailybagel: @bonifidehustla: @lvenger: @theacidskull: @schwarz:

I assume all of you seen the latest solicitation and cover for Uncanny Avengers in November? Leave it to the likes of Bendis & Duggan to totally take a leak on Banner/Hulk. How? By exploiting Banner's corpse and having the Hand resurrect it as some monstrous, undead abomination.

@greenscar1990: scans?

@greenscar1990

I see why you didnt post it like you usually do. I'm not even shocked they did this dumb sh1t.

Basically he's Solomon Grundy now. Since they can't be original lets make him like a DC character.

@bonifidehustla:

Sadly, yes. What we have here is a Solomon Grundy who is bigger, meaner, stronger and a lot more dangerous. And green instead of chalk-white. It's disturbing how far Marvel, and their writers & editors, are willing to go in order to alienate their long time readers and ruin legendary & much beloved characters.

@greenscar1990: do you think the hulk will overcome the hand by returning back to normal like he was?

@medulaoblaganda:

In all honesty, I hope he doesn't even get resurrected and it's all false advertising because this is no respectful way for Hulk/Banner to make a triumphant return.

They are going to bring Hulk back like that? my god what is wrong with Marvel. I'm just done.

@greenscar1990: i just hope the hulk will overcome the hand and return to his normal state of mind. or may be bruce banner is no more. just the hulk ?

@greenscar1990: Thanks for the news. I don't even bother looking at what is going on with Marvel. They have gone full retard.