@PowerHerc said:
As for any future use of 'Heracles' - I feel Hercules' mortal shade is just that; a shade existing only in Hades with no physical form of it's own - I don't find this mortal aspect of Hercules' being all that compelling and wouldn't care to see it again.
Also, he was wrong to blame Hercules for his suffering. The torture was Pluto's doing and him being sent to Hades was because Zeus didn't allow his aspect to remain part of Hercules and thus he went the way of other Greek mortals upon death. Could Pluto have been lying? Yes, but we may never know for sure. I do find it reasonable for Heracles to have super-strength because the very reason for Hercules/Heracles existence was to do, as a mortal, what the gods themselves could not; defeat and slay the gigantes (giants).
I get what your saying about Zeus. I wonder if Hercules would feel the same way if Zeus pulled the same crap in modern times. Herc has sort of adapted to the morals of the modern day. Do you think Hercules would feel any different about it if Zeus acted such a way in the modern era?
As for Heracles, I can see why he would be pissed at both Zeus and Hercules. Zeus let him to rot and Herc either did not know baout him or did not care that he was suffering for crimes they had both committed. Regarding super-strength I can see arguments both for and against it. On one hand it is his birthright. Part of Hercules is intrinsically godly. When Zeus strips him of his godhood it is immortality, but at least some strength is left. ON the other, if the strength is from the divine half and Heracles is the "mortal" half I can see why it would be a weak as a normal human because Hercules is the divine half.
@LeeSensei said:
Zeus was never good, by any means. He was a Jerkass. Almost every Greek God and hero was jerkass in some way. The only reason, he's often portrayed as a good guy in modern media is because it works better for the stories. Just like Hades being turned into an evil God. Going by the myths, Hades was one of the nicer Gods.
I would not say this is entirely true. A large part of this is radically different morals. The mythological Heracles has many traits not admires in today's society. He could be highly vindictive holding grudges for years and laying waste to entire cities for the crimes of a few. Zeus was overall viewed as a upholder of law and justice. He could be a fair a good leader and fair arbiter. Many of the people he did torment in some way deserved it for either committing injustice or defying his kingly authority, but from the point of view of a very different moral code and type of justice. The Iliad is a good example of this. Zeus has to balance the different sides and a lot of the time only acts when some side has committed a wrong. On the other, there are many tales where he is just a massive a-hole because he can be. Even the ancients sometimes called him out on this. Of course, with true believers this would be excused because as a god the morals that apply to him would be different. Afterall, he is not human.
Zeus does rightly get a bad rap nowadays for several reasons. One is the different morals and idea of justice. Another is he did pull a lot of crap that left even some of the ancients scratching their heads. Part of it is his faults are overblown and people forget he was also a god of law and civilization.
@PowerHerc said:
Good point.
The abduction of Persephone was quite cruel indeed.
Hades/Pluto was certainly no exception to the capricious, selfish nature of the gods.
Some articles I've read indicate the Hades/Persephone story is not quite as cut and dry as this. Again, a large part of it was due to the different values. Some interpretations I've read state the abduction was more in line with an arranged marraige than outright kidnapping. Hades god Zeus' permission first after all. The opinion of the mother and would-be bride did not matter that much. The father had total mastery including matters of life and death in a house. The only reason the mother's opinion mattered this time around was she as a powerful goddess who could starve the Earth.
In myth, Hades is actually one of the nicer gods. He generally leaves mortals alone unless they bother him. I don't recall any tales of him being nearly as vindictive or capricious as his brothers. He was quite willing to allow Orpheus to return his wife to life and allow Ascelpius to heal people. He only got mad at the latter when he started ressurecting people going against the natural order. And even then in some versions only when Ascelpius selected who he would raise based on who paid the most.
@TheCrowbar said:
Apollo was the only good greek god.
I would have to disagree with that. He one tale he and a satyr were in a music contest: Apollo's lyre vs the satyr's flute. The first round was a draw so depending on the version Apollo demands the next round they either play their instruments upside down or sing and play at the same time. Needless to say Apollo asking the impossible of the satyr wins and then flays him for daring to challenge a god. I think most people would say that is an unfair contest, but in ancient times Apollo would sort of been in his rights to punish the satyr's hubris of challenging a god. There are several other tales as well of Apollo being about as vindictive as the other gods.
About the only Olympian with absolutely unquestionable behavior is Hestia, goddess of hearth and home. She does not appear in many stories.
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