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    Goku

    Character » Goku appears in 1423 issues.

    The main protagonist and hero of the Dragon Ball manga series and animated television series created by Akira Toriyama. He is one of the survivors of the extinct Saiyan race. Sent as a baby to planet Earth in order to destroy it. When he arrived he was a violent kid, due to his warrior nature. However, he suffered an accident which made him lose his memory. He became a kind and calm kid. Trained, he became a talented martial artist and world's greatest defender.

    Battle of the gods Goku's PL and potential feats calculated.

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    DerpyHerps

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    #1  Edited By DerpyHerps

    (Copied directly from my pastebin)

    Let's put into perspective how overpowering goku really is, using only the DBZ canon.

    Before you read any further, please note that I am using Power levels as my basis. The powerlevels I use are found here: (dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_power_levels). All power levels that I take are from the Official Daizenshuu. They represent the Maximum strength output for that character. All Powerlevels were discontinued after the frieza saga, and therefore any power level afterwards is mere speculation. I will be skewing goku here so that he is weaker than he would be, so that I can remain in line with the DBZ canon

    Vegeta, during the saiyan saga has a Power level (PL) of 18,000. With it, his galick gun would've blown up earth, had goku not stopped him (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiCrprzMqME).

    When he first turns super saiyan, goku has a PL of 150,000,000. Assuming that all vegeta could've destroyed is the one planet, goku's power would allow him to destroy a being with power equal to 8,333.34 planets. Without progressing goku's power level any further, since there are no canon official power levels after that, we'll simply use that value and apply transformations.

    SSJ1 = 150,000,000

    SSJ2(SSJ1x2) = 300,000,000

    SSJ3(SSJ2x4) = 1,200,000,000

    ((SSJ4 is uncanon, and will not be used.))

    As a ssj3 without progressing goku's base power any further since the frieza saga, goku can destroy the equivilant of 66,666.67 planets

    Along with this,vegeta took goku's 32,000 PL Kaio-Kenx4 kamehameha + his own 18,000 PL Galick Gun. That totals to a PL of 50,000, giving the combined beams the power to destroy 2.78 planets. From this, one can infer that saiyans can withstand an attack of equal or lesser planet-busting capability of 2.78x your own. Meaning SSJ3 goku without progression can tank an attack that can destroy 185,333.34 planets.

    Goku, in dragonball runs the 100m in 8s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqFHPNSPL8U). That yeilds him a speed of 12.5 m/s. Meaning that 1PL = 1.25 m/s (for saiyans). Goku as an SSj3 would have a speed of 1,500,000,000 m/s. 5 times the speed of light (299,792,458). Applying relativity, Goku in SSJ3 would be traveling at 298,970,962. That's more than 99.7% of the speed of light (Thanks to Sunny Sanity from gaiaonline!)

    Also in dragonball, a young kid goku (PL 10) is shown picking up a car and throwing it(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJMEmEuEKW0). The car seemed similar to the Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 (http://mt.kargo.com/entry/view/id/6255/pn/all/p/0/?KSID=bjprizxtkkz). The Cooper weighs 1.6275 tons or 3255lbs. This gives saiyans 325.5lbs/1PL of RAW lift strength, as goku was unable to utilize Ki energy at this point in the series. SSJ3 Goku without progression has a Raw lift strength of 390,600,000,000lbs, or 195,300,000 tons.

    Utilizing Ki would augment goku's already immense natural physical attributes.

    And to top it all off, all of these values are horrendously lower than the power level post-battle of the gods because no official values for power levels were posted for goku after the frieza saga.

    However, we can manually calculate goku's PL to get closer to what it may actually be.

    (Quoted from Laurcus on comicvine, edited out parts referring to SSJ4 as it is irrelevant: http://www.comicvine.com/goku/4005-19765/forums/what-is-ssj4-gokus-power-level-in-gt-740635/)

    "SS1 Goku during the Frieza saga was 150 million. When Vegeta left the Hyperbolic Time Chamber Goku stated that he would have had to have gotten 3 times stronger to even stand a chance against Semi-Perfect Cell. It's generally accepted that Goku and Vegeta were about equal pre HTC. So assuming Goku did NOT get stronger from his fight with Frieza and 4 more years of training, that puts SS1 Vegeta at 450 million. Later, when Goku leaves the time chamber, he powers up for Korin. His level of power greatly alarms Vegeta and Trunks, this indicates Goku is now greater than or equal to Vegeta. Goku then reveals to Korin that he only used about half of his power. That puts FPSS Cell saga Goku at 900 mil. Same song and dance for Gohan. Through the course of the story it's revealed he is equal to Goku. Then Gohan goes SS2, which is twice as strong as SS1 according to the Super Exciting Guide. That puts SS2 Gohan at at least 1.8 billion.

    Then you get into the Buu saga. SS3 is another x4 on top of SS2, so assuming Goku didn't get any stronger in his 7 years of training, that puts him at 7.2 billion...Supreme Kai states in episode 219 that he is 1000 times stronger than Frieza. As you already pointed out, Frieza = 120 million, times 1000 and you have 120 billion. In Kibito's Daizenshuu entry, it says that Kibito could fight evenly with base form Gohan. Now, if you recall, Supreme Kai was repeatedly outmatched by the Saiyans even in base form. He was scared that even working together, they would not be able to beat Pui Pui, yet Vegeta does so easily, a feat that does not impress Goku or Gohan. It's safe to say that Gohan, (and by proxy Kibito) has a power level much higher than 120 billion at that point, in base form. For the sake of being as conservative as possible though, I'll assume Kibito has a power level of exactly 120 billion.

    In the Super Exciting Guide, on page 63, it states that fusion via the earrings is in fact multiplication of power levels. That means Kibito Kai has a power level of at least 14.4 sextillion. Kibito Kai, by his own statements, as well as the statements of Old Kai, Goku and Vegeta, was so weak he would have just been in the way if he tried to fight Buu. Even when Vegeta was trying to fight Kid Buu in base form, Old Kai still warned Kibito Kai that he's too weak to help. From this we can conclude that base form Goku and Vegeta > 14.4 sextillion. Why is there such a giant gap in their power between the fight with Kid Buu and the start of the Buu saga? *shrugs* I don't know. The only thing I can think of is zenkai boosts. That, or Gohan was much much weaker than Goku and Vegeta...And as I've demonstrated, that's lowballing at every point possible, and completely ignoring Goku's 15 years of training after the fight with Kid Buu."

    Meaning that by the end of the buu saga, goku's PL is 14.4 sextillion in base.

    Pre-BoG Goku base

    PL: 14,400,000,000,000,000,000,000

    Destructive Force: 800,000,000,000,000,000 Planets

    Durability: 2,224,000,000,000,000,000 Planets

    Speed: 18,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 m/s (60,206,515,975,956.22 x Light)

    Raw Lift: 2,343,600,000,000,000,000,000 tons

    Goku can also use kaio-ken to multiply his already immense power level. He's been shown going up to kaio-ken x 20, so that's the max i'd reference. SSJ3 pre-god goku using kaio-ken x 20 allows him to destroy 1,333,333.4 planets, tank 3,706,666.9 planets, move at 30,000,000,000 m/s (80x the speed of light). His lift strength is 3,906,000,000 tons. His PL is 24,000,000,000.

    Vegito is the potora fusion of goku & vegeta, and as stated above, would have goku & vegeta's power levels multiplied together. Meaning that Vegito had a PL of around 207,360,000,000,000,000,000,000,768,400,016,360,888,208,504, or 2.0736e+44 in BASE. Vegito as a Super Saiyan would be 10,368,000,000,000,000,000,000,368,720,352,568,464,216,720,200 or 1.0368e+46.

    (Using http://www.easysurf.cc/scintd.htm to display values out of scientific notation)

    Now to further goku's power. Please keep note that these values will still be lower than they should be, but will get you closer to what it might be at the end of BoG.

    Bills is stated to be the strongest character in the history of DBZ. That means he trumps vegito. SSJ1 Goku after attaining super saiyan god is shown to be on par with bills. Bills must be stronger than Vegito, but there is no value to give him. He may be 1.1x stronger or 100x stronger. I don't know. But what I do know is that...

    SSJ1 goku post BoG = Bills > SSJ3 Goku Pre-BoG

    SSJ1 = 10,368,000,000,000,000,000,000,368,720,352,568,464,216,720,200 (1.0368e+46)

    SSJ2(SSJ1x2) = 20,736,000,000,000,000,000,000,736,440,704,136,928,432,440,400 (2.0736e+46)

    SSJ3(SSJ2x4) = 82,944,000,000,000,000,000,000,944,760,816,544,712,728,760,600 (8.2944e+46)

    With these values...

    Destructive Power: 4,607,999,999,999,999,488,712,088,728,448,976,984,864,888 Planets

    Durability: 12,810,240,000,000,002,048,152,560,088,416,368,320,448,224 Planets

    Speed: 103,680,000,000,000,000,000,000,384,200,008,680,944,104,752,496 m/sec (346,789,532,021,507,840,472,584,848,560,232,928,288 xSpeed of Light)

    Raw Lift: 13,499,136,000,000,002,048,152,056,752,928,128,272,528,424,048 Tons

    Apply Kaio-kenx20

    PL: 1,658,880,000,000,000,000,000,000,144,200,128,880,104,664,032,936 (1.65888e+48)

    Destructive Power: 91,260,000,000,000,000,000,968,440,024,576,296,560,096,200 Planets

    Durability: 256,204,800,000,000,000,000,000,056,304,376,128,440,552,480 Planets

    Speed: 2,073,600,000,000,000,256,144,456,888,320,904,920,696,400,384,176 m/sec (6,935,790,640,430,156,776,296,048,792,824,128,128,848 xSpeed of Light)

    Raw Lift: 269,982,719,999,999,936,464,136,608,336,656,480,088,744,688,976 Tons

    His destructive force alone is enough to destroy the Universe 92,160,000,000,000,000,000 times over, and survive the explosion. (http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2013/01/05/how-many-planets-are-in-the-universe/ calcs the number of planets in our universe at about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.)

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    jasonhawke

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    So what you're saying is.... that Goku is very strong?

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    Lvenger

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    Oh god another Dragon Ball thread making insane calculations about Goku's power level. It's not like this'll turn into a raging argument of DBZ fanboys vs comic fans.

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    IamTheLaw85

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    Where did you get all these numbers and calculations? Its like they were all made up.

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    ComicStooge

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    ...This is why I hate calcs. You can literally make a character as strong as you want by adding a bunch of numbers together, ignoring all feats.

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    Temporal_Guardian

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    #6  Edited By Temporal_Guardian

    You're supposed to look at a feat, see what laws of physics and equations apply to it, and then calc it down with established mathematical equations to establish what exactly doing this feat entails.

    You're not supposed to take in universe measuring sticks that the creators themselves admit are useless and run them through a number cruncher.

    You are definitely not supposed to make up variables for your equations without reasonable scientific estimates and equations.

    @comicstooge: Someone failed science class.

    Without calcs we get stupid things like people thinking a Reaper can beat the Death star in spite of the death star possessing orders of magnitude more firepower.

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    DerpyHerps

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    @temporal_guardian: If you could tell me where I've made up a varriable, i'll revise it.

    As for using power levels rather than real-world physics, DBZ doesnt seem to follow our world's physics. Hercule gets smacked into a mountain, levels it and survives during the cell games.

    Goku goes to the moon on a magic pole and doesnt burn up while exoting/entering the atmosphere, nor does her or the people he took up die of asphixiation.

    Applying real-world concepts to comics is jut a bad idea.

    @iamthelaw85: Find a feat, find the PL at the time the feat was preformed, scale it

    @lvenger: i hope it doesnt. It never ends well and only causes butthurt fanboying.

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    alcoholbob

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    #8  Edited By alcoholbob

    In Battle of Gods, Bills states Base Goku is weaker than Freeza, so there's no realistic way he's more than 115 million, much less the obscene 14,400,000,000,000,000,000,000 number you give.

    Also, Kaioshin never stated he was 1000 times stronger than Freeza, he merely said Kaios could 1-shot Freeza. In Dragonball we've had characters with only 20% more power than another character 1-shot the other. Kaio could be only a few times stronger than Freeza and the statement would be still accurate.

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    Lvenger

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    In Battle of Gods, Bills states Base Goku is weaker than Freeza, so there's no realistic way he's more than 115 million, much less the obscene 14,400,000,000,000,000,000,000 number you give.

    Also, Kaioshin never stated he was 1000 times stronger than Freeza, he merely said Kaios could 1-shot Freeza. In Dragonball we've had characters with only 20% more power than another character 1-shot the other. Kaio could be only a few times stronger than Freeza and the statement would be still accurate.

    See this is why I hate the comparison between comic and anime feats. The measurements for each are wholly different from each other.

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    theamazingbatman

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    In Battle of Gods, Bills states Base Goku is weaker than Freeza, so there's no realistic way he's more than 115 million, much less the obscene 14,400,000,000,000,000,000,000 number you give.

    Also, Kaioshin never stated he was 1000 times stronger than Freeza, he merely said Kaios could 1-shot Freeza. In Dragonball we've had characters with only 20% more power than another character 1-shot the other. Kaio could be only a few times stronger than Freeza and the statement would be still accurate.

    Another example of dbz's inconsistency . When goku fought cooler , cooler agreed that base form goku was stronger than frieza. And kaioshin did say that they were thousand times stronger than frieza.

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    theamazingbatman

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    #11  Edited By theamazingbatman

    (Copied directly from my pastebin)

    Let's put into perspective how overpowering goku really is, using only the DBZ canon.

    Before you read any further, please note that I am using Power levels as my basis. The powerlevels I use are found here: (dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_power_levels). All power levels that I take are from the Official Daizenshuu. They represent the Maximum strength output for that character. All Powerlevels were discontinued after the frieza saga, and therefore any power level afterwards is mere speculation. I will be skewing goku here so that he is weaker than he would be, so that I can remain in line with the DBZ canon

    Vegeta, during the saiyan saga has a Power level (PL) of 18,000. With it, his galick gun would've blown up earth, had goku not stopped him (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiCrprzMqME).

    When he first turns super saiyan, goku has a PL of 150,000,000. Assuming that all vegeta could've destroyed is the one planet, goku's power would allow him to destroy a being with power equal to 8,333.34 planets. Without progressing goku's power level any further, since there are no canon official power levels after that, we'll simply use that value and apply transformations.

    SSJ1 = 150,000,000

    SSJ2(SSJ1x2) = 300,000,000

    SSJ3(SSJ2x4) = 1,200,000,000

    ((SSJ4 is uncanon, and will not be used.))

    As a ssj3 without progressing goku's base power any further since the frieza saga, goku can destroy the equivilant of 66,666.67 planets

    Along with this,vegeta took goku's 32,000 PL Kaio-Kenx4 kamehameha + his own 18,000 PL Galick Gun. That totals to a PL of 50,000, giving the combined beams the power to destroy 2.78 planets. From this, one can infer that saiyans can withstand an attack of equal or lesser planet-busting capability of 2.78x your own. Meaning SSJ3 goku without progression can tank an attack that can destroy 185,333.34 planets.

    Goku, in dragonball runs the 100m in 8s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqFHPNSPL8U). That yeilds him a speed of 12.5 m/s. Meaning that 1PL = 1.25 m/s (for saiyans). Goku as an SSj3 would have a speed of 1,500,000,000 m/s. 5 times the speed of light (299,792,458). Applying relativity, Goku in SSJ3 would be traveling at 298,970,962. That's more than 99.7% of the speed of light (Thanks to Sunny Sanity from gaiaonline!)

    Also in dragonball, a young kid goku (PL 10) is shown picking up a car and throwing it(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJMEmEuEKW0). The car seemed similar to the Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 (http://mt.kargo.com/entry/view/id/6255/pn/all/p/0/?KSID=bjprizxtkkz). The Cooper weighs 1.6275 tons or 3255lbs. This gives saiyans 325.5lbs/1PL of RAW lift strength, as goku was unable to utilize Ki energy at this point in the series. SSJ3 Goku without progression has a Raw lift strength of 390,600,000,000lbs, or 195,300,000 tons.

    Utilizing Ki would augment goku's already immense natural physical attributes.

    And to top it all off, all of these values are horrendously lower than the power level post-battle of the gods because no official values for power levels were posted for goku after the frieza saga.

    However, we can manually calculate goku's PL to get closer to what it may actually be.

    (Quoted from Laurcus on comicvine, edited out parts referring to SSJ4 as it is irrelevant: http://www.comicvine.com/goku/4005-19765/forums/what-is-ssj4-gokus-power-level-in-gt-740635/)

    "SS1 Goku during the Frieza saga was 150 million. When Vegeta left the Hyperbolic Time Chamber Goku stated that he would have had to have gotten 3 times stronger to even stand a chance against Semi-Perfect Cell. It's generally accepted that Goku and Vegeta were about equal pre HTC. So assuming Goku did NOT get stronger from his fight with Frieza and 4 more years of training, that puts SS1 Vegeta at 450 million. Later, when Goku leaves the time chamber, he powers up for Korin. His level of power greatly alarms Vegeta and Trunks, this indicates Goku is now greater than or equal to Vegeta. Goku then reveals to Korin that he only used about half of his power. That puts FPSS Cell saga Goku at 900 mil. Same song and dance for Gohan. Through the course of the story it's revealed he is equal to Goku. Then Gohan goes SS2, which is twice as strong as SS1 according to the Super Exciting Guide. That puts SS2 Gohan at at least 1.8 billion.

    Then you get into the Buu saga. SS3 is another x4 on top of SS2, so assuming Goku didn't get any stronger in his 7 years of training, that puts him at 7.2 billion...Supreme Kai states in episode 219 that he is 1000 times stronger than Frieza. As you already pointed out, Frieza = 120 million, times 1000 and you have 120 billion. In Kibito's Daizenshuu entry, it says that Kibito could fight evenly with base form Gohan. Now, if you recall, Supreme Kai was repeatedly outmatched by the Saiyans even in base form. He was scared that even working together, they would not be able to beat Pui Pui, yet Vegeta does so easily, a feat that does not impress Goku or Gohan. It's safe to say that Gohan, (and by proxy Kibito) has a power level much higher than 120 billion at that point, in base form. For the sake of being as conservative as possible though, I'll assume Kibito has a power level of exactly 120 billion.

    In the Super Exciting Guide, on page 63, it states that fusion via the earrings is in fact multiplication of power levels. That means Kibito Kai has a power level of at least 14.4 sextillion. Kibito Kai, by his own statements, as well as the statements of Old Kai, Goku and Vegeta, was so weak he would have just been in the way if he tried to fight Buu. Even when Vegeta was trying to fight Kid Buu in base form, Old Kai still warned Kibito Kai that he's too weak to help. From this we can conclude that base form Goku and Vegeta > 14.4 sextillion. Why is there such a giant gap in their power between the fight with Kid Buu and the start of the Buu saga? *shrugs* I don't know. The only thing I can think of is zenkai boosts. That, or Gohan was much much weaker than Goku and Vegeta...And as I've demonstrated, that's lowballing at every point possible, and completely ignoring Goku's 15 years of training after the fight with Kid Buu."

    Meaning that by the end of the buu saga, goku's PL is 14.4 sextillion in base.

    Pre-BoG Goku base

    PL: 14,400,000,000,000,000,000,000

    Destructive Force: 800,000,000,000,000,000 Planets

    Durability: 2,224,000,000,000,000,000 Planets

    Speed: 18,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 m/s (60,206,515,975,956.22 x Light)

    Raw Lift: 2,343,600,000,000,000,000,000 tons

    Goku can also use kaio-ken to multiply his already immense power level. He's been shown going up to kaio-ken x 20, so that's the max i'd reference. SSJ3 pre-god goku using kaio-ken x 20 allows him to destroy 1,333,333.4 planets, tank 3,706,666.9 planets, move at 30,000,000,000 m/s (80x the speed of light). His lift strength is 3,906,000,000 tons. His PL is 24,000,000,000.

    Vegito is the potora fusion of goku & vegeta, and as stated above, would have goku & vegeta's power levels multiplied together. Meaning that Vegito had a PL of around 207,360,000,000,000,000,000,000,768,400,016,360,888,208,504, or 2.0736e+44 in BASE. Vegito as a Super Saiyan would be 10,368,000,000,000,000,000,000,368,720,352,568,464,216,720,200 or 1.0368e+46.

    (Using http://www.easysurf.cc/scintd.htm to display values out of scientific notation)

    Now to further goku's power. Please keep note that these values will still be lower than they should be, but will get you closer to what it might be at the end of BoG.

    Bills is stated to be the strongest character in the history of DBZ. That means he trumps vegito. SSJ1 Goku after attaining super saiyan god is shown to be on par with bills. Bills must be stronger than Vegito, but there is no value to give him. He may be 1.1x stronger or 100x stronger. I don't know. But what I do know is that...

    SSJ1 goku post BoG = Bills > SSJ3 Goku Pre-BoG

    SSJ1 = 10,368,000,000,000,000,000,000,368,720,352,568,464,216,720,200 (1.0368e+46)

    SSJ2(SSJ1x2) = 20,736,000,000,000,000,000,000,736,440,704,136,928,432,440,400 (2.0736e+46)

    SSJ3(SSJ2x4) = 82,944,000,000,000,000,000,000,944,760,816,544,712,728,760,600 (8.2944e+46)

    With these values...

    Destructive Power: 4,607,999,999,999,999,488,712,088,728,448,976,984,864,888 Planets

    Durability: 12,810,240,000,000,002,048,152,560,088,416,368,320,448,224 Planets

    Speed: 103,680,000,000,000,000,000,000,384,200,008,680,944,104,752,496 m/sec (346,789,532,021,507,840,472,584,848,560,232,928,288 xSpeed of Light)

    Raw Lift: 13,499,136,000,000,002,048,152,056,752,928,128,272,528,424,048 Tons

    Apply Kaio-kenx20

    PL: 1,658,880,000,000,000,000,000,000,144,200,128,880,104,664,032,936 (1.65888e+48)

    Destructive Power: 91,260,000,000,000,000,000,968,440,024,576,296,560,096,200 Planets

    Durability: 256,204,800,000,000,000,000,000,056,304,376,128,440,552,480 Planets

    Speed: 2,073,600,000,000,000,256,144,456,888,320,904,920,696,400,384,176 m/sec (6,935,790,640,430,156,776,296,048,792,824,128,128,848 xSpeed of Light)

    Raw Lift: 269,982,719,999,999,936,464,136,608,336,656,480,088,744,688,976 Tons

    His destructive force alone is enough to destroy the Universe 92,160,000,000,000,000,000 times over, and survive the explosion. (http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2013/01/05/how-many-planets-are-in-the-universe/ calcs the number of planets in our universe at about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.)

    Good one , but at the end you state that he can destroy 91260000000000000000968440024576296560096200 and that he there are 1000000000000000000000000 planets in the universe and he can destroy the destroy the universe 92160000000000000000 times over but this is wrong . There aren't just planets in the universe, there are stars , black holes etc etc. Each star is at least million time bigger than earth and there are zillions of stars at the least in our universe. So Goku may be able to destroy all the planets in the universe but he can not destroy all of the universe.

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    sergioRbenitez

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    #12  Edited By sergioRbenitez

    I don't use calculations, I'll use relative feats. Here's my take.

    Most debates I've seen on here downplay Goku, no one explains what he can do. People also like to say he hasn't proved he's MFTL despite Toriyama saying they are MFTL post frieza saga. They say they've shown no feats in MFTL, but everytime they fight, technically no one can see them. WE can see them because we need to in order to enjoy the anime, that doesn't mean they're not fighting at MFTL. It'd be silly of them to explain they're moving at MFTL speeds when fighting if their opponents are doing the same. How would people like them to prove it? Anyways, its proven in the new movie regardless. SSGod Goku = Bills, and Bills/Whis transverse the whole universe across galaxies from their realm to Earth in just 26min, which is well above light speed. Also, anyone that is MFTL can technically do an Infinite Mass Punch, which has been proven to to be moon busting. I heard it hits like a white dwarf star, but is that a hyperbole? Regardless, Bills destroys stars & solar systems in an instant. Not a hyperbole, because it's spoken of in past tense as he's already done it before. Piccolo even says Bills would destroy the galaxy, but I think that is a hyperbole. He also physically moon busts many moons back-to-back in his realm. This means SSG Goku can do all those feats as well, as he is asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he has the same destructive ability. At only SS3 he punched a hole through King Kai's planet which is 10x the gravity/density of Earth despite being smaller. In the series & manga, at only SS3 his power shook the entire earth & could be felt across the universe and realms of the Supreme Kai (www.screwattack.com/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions). Now at SSG, he's way stronger than that & he currently only 10% weaker than Bills, they fight as near equals.

    DC villains are more or a universal threat however. My take on why DC villains are more dangerous than DBZ villains however, deals with DC villains individual abilities/powers (such as wielding big bangs). In DBZ, villains and heroes all virtually have the same powers, just different power levels. In comparison, it would be as if all Superman's enemies were tougher & tougher Zods each time. So, who Superman has beat doesn't relate to his own power. Know what I mean? Kind of hard to explain. If Superman beats a universe buster, it doesn't mean he can bust a universe. Usually the universe busters in DC simply have that ability, it doesn't correlate to their fighting strength & ability in which Supes can match (Anti monitor an exception). So my view, is that if I can prove Goku is on par with modern canon Supes, Goku could swap places with him in the DC universe and beat the same people Superman has beat. Therefore using comparisons of who beat who is kind of irrelevant. However, in DBZ, since the villains are simply tougher "Zods" to our "Supermen", the power does relate to Goku's own power. If two are equally powerful, they are capable of the same amount of destruction.

    At only SS2 Goku fired a kamehameha energy attack that would blow up the Earth. Goku also has instant transmission aka teleportation. Unlike how people claim he needs to concentrate to use it, that is false. People using that excuse fail to mention, was that Goku was moving many people at once and needed to know where to go in that setting. In battle, it takes no concentration whatsoever and he uses it many times back-to-back to cut angles & strike repeatedly against Bills during their fight. Also during their fight, they fight THROUGH the earths crust, punching eachother & busting through it as easy as moving through air. A hot knife through butter. That means they're hitting each other harder than is need to topple mountains. They later take the fight into outer space, where Goku breaths just fine. The SSG transformation has a time limit, but it's irrelevant, as Goku absorbs the power into his own so that he is just as powerful as SSG at his normal SS form now. All the feats Bills can do, Goku is now capable of.

    Goku has survived blasts that have multi-planet busting ability. He did escape Namek blowing up when he was only SS1. Plus he took punches from a moon busting Bills. Goku has trained martial arts/techniques under different masters & Gods and he trains every single day of every year. His pure fighting skill is amazing. Goku uses all of his limbs, including cutting angles, teleporting, & every power in his arsenal... constantly. Goku's constantly getting stronger, (and other saiyans) especially gets stronger after a defeat. The worse they are beaten the stronger they are when they heal (all they need to heal is a sinzu bean). That's why Vegeta once got beaten into within an inch of his life on purpose, so he'd be that much stronger when he healed up.

    In conclusion, SSG Goku is also more powerful than any GT version, yet slightly weaker than Bills & Whis, which says something because he used a Universal Spirit Bomb in GT which gathered energy from the whole universe into one attack. Goku can wipe out a star, solar system, planets, etc. Hopefully, I've informed you all to the extent of Goku's power. He has been majorly downplayed in most debates I've seen on here. Everything I've stated has been proven in the new movie, or done in the series, and most can be found at (dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Gods) . You can follow the links provided in the article.

    (Also, I only used DC/Superman to make a comparison and explain the extent of Goku's power. Not talking shit on Superman)

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    ad00

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    #13  Edited By ad00

    @sergiorbenitez:

    In conclusion, SSG Goku is also more powerful than any GT version, yet slightly weaker than Bills & Whis, which says something because he used a Universal Spirit Bomb in GT which gathered energy from the whole universe into one attack. Goku can wipe out a star, solar system, planets, etc. Hopefully, I've informed you all to the extent of Goku's power. He has been majorly downplayed in most debates I've seen on here. Everything I've stated has been proven in the new movie, or done in the series, and most can be found at (dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Gods) . You can follow the links provided in the article.

    So you are saying even Stronger SS4 Gogeta but how ?

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    sergioRbenitez

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    #14  Edited By sergioRbenitez
    @ad00 said:

    @sergiorbenitez:

    In conclusion, SSG Goku is also more powerful than any GT version, yet slightly weaker than Bills & Whis, which says something because he used a Universal Spirit Bomb in GT which gathered energy from the whole universe into one attack. Goku can wipe out a star, solar system, planets, etc. Hopefully, I've informed you all to the extent of Goku's power. He has been majorly downplayed in most debates I've seen on here. Everything I've stated has been proven in the new movie, or done in the series, and most can be found at (dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Gods) . You can follow the links provided in the article.

    So you are saying even Stronger SS4 Gogeta but how ?

    This movie/manga was basically to discredit GT. In GT, SS4 is kind of viewed as the truest form of an original Super Saiyan. However, SSG is viewed as the legend of the original Super Saiyan GOD. So, my logic tells me that's stronger than SS4 Goku. SS4 Gogeta is hard to say. Also, In my opinion GT is a different universe which although based after DBZ's events, does not include being after Battle of Gods' events because BoG was created after GT. So, GT is stronger than SS3 Goku, but SS3 doesn't hold a candle to SSG nor SS4 Gogeta... so this is where the debate really begins. I can't say how much or little SSG is stronger than SS4 Gogeta. I'd think he is though being a God version of Super Saiyan, but I'm up to compare feats. How do you see SS4 Gogeta as stronger?

    I'm on the side that doesn't really believe base GT kid goku is stronger than end-of-DBZ SS3, not even SS2. Yes, he fights someone who's said to be as strong as majin buu (I imagine the fat one), but by the end of the buu saga & in the new movie, all the saiyan z-fighters are on par with Buu (SS2 Vegeta even surpasses SS3 Goku). GT Goku also toys with frieza/cell, but i'm sure post buu saga, once again my opinion is that the saiyan z-fighters could do the same. I don't consider GT taking the PL multiplier into account when they were creating it. Feats being shown, and the damage created in their fights, I don't think GT Goku is much stronger than end-of-DBZ goku. Especially since he can't use instant transmission or SS3 very long. Also, DBZ super gogeta (not even SS4) is listed as having a stronger power level than GT Omega Shenron (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels). This further complicates why I doubt GT kid Goku is stronger than adult DBZ goku, even though in GT he says he didnt feel a loss of power. The universes are different. In my opinion SSG Goku outclasses Omega Shenron as bad as SS4 Gogeta did, but SSG Goku doesn't have to worry about losing his power.

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    ad00

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    #15  Edited By ad00

    @sergiorbenitez:

    This movie/manga was basically to discredit GT. In GT, SS4 is kind of viewed as the truest form of an original Super Saiyan. However, SSG is viewed as the legend of the original Super Saiyan GOD. So, my logic tells me that's stronger than SS4 Goku. SS4 Gogeta is hard to say. Also, In my opinion GT is a different universe which although based after DBZ's events, does not include being after Battle of Gods' events because BoG was created after GT. So, GT is stronger than SS3 Goku, but SS3 doesn't hold a candle to SSG nor SS4 Gogeta... so this is where the debate really begins. I can't say how much or little SSG is stronger than SS4 Gogeta. I'd think he is though being a God version of Super Saiyan, but I'm up to compare feats. How do you see SS4 Gogeta as stronger?

    I'm on the side that doesn't really believe base GT kid goku is stronger than end-of-DBZ SS3, not even SS2. Yes, he fights someone who's said to be as strong as majin buu (I imagine the fat one), but by the end of the buu saga & in the new movie, all the saiyan z-fighters are on par with Buu (SS2 Vegeta even surpasses SS3 Goku). GT Goku also toys with frieza/cell, but i'm sure post buu saga, once again my opinion is that the saiyan z-fighters could do the same. I don't consider GT taking the PL multiplier into account when they were creating it. Feats being shown, and the damage created in their fights, I don't think GT Goku is much stronger than end-of-DBZ goku. Especially since he can't use instant transmission or SS3 very long. Also, DBZ super gogeta (not even SS4) is listed as having a stronger power level than GT Omega Shenron (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels). This further complicates why I doubt GT kid Goku is stronger than adult DBZ goku, even though in GT he says he didnt feel a loss of power. The universes are different. In my opinion SSG Goku outclasses Omega Shenron as bad as SS4 Gogeta did, but SSG Goku doesn't have to worry about losing his power.

    Bro, i see You have taken a lot of trouble writing that. i will keep in mind what you said about SS4 Gogeta vs Super Sayain God

    But Goku in 17 Saga got a big boost his Base is strong as 2xDBZ SS3 Goku non fused. Goku already said in Hell now i am stronger than ever to Cell and Freza

    17 Saga Goku 2.3 times Stronger than 17 Saga Vegeta

    Majuub coud not move Super 17 with his full power. Only Vegeta SS2 and Goku SS1 could move him

    At the end of GT Shenron Goku base was little stronger than Omega shenron Full power. Imagine after Shenron Saga GT how Strong Goku would be. SS4 is a ape Transformation it mean full potential of the Sayain power he can use.

    People who say Vegeto is Strong as SS4 are the one who says SSG is Stronger than SS4 but they are wrong

    Bro, to be honest to you Goku got a lot Stronger than his was in DBZ as some say GT was 15 years later after DBZ.

    SSG wont able to beat 17 Saga SS4 Goku. Gogeta is way about that. Unless SSG has magic he cannot beat 17 saga SS4 Goku nor Gogeta in Strenth or raw power

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    sergioRbenitez

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    @ad00 said:

    @sergiorbenitez:

    This movie/manga was basically to discredit GT. In GT, SS4 is kind of viewed as the truest form of an original Super Saiyan. However, SSG is viewed as the legend of the original Super Saiyan GOD. So, my logic tells me that's stronger than SS4 Goku. SS4 Gogeta is hard to say. Also, In my opinion GT is a different universe which although based after DBZ's events, does not include being after Battle of Gods' events because BoG was created after GT. So, GT is stronger than SS3 Goku, but SS3 doesn't hold a candle to SSG nor SS4 Gogeta... so this is where the debate really begins. I can't say how much or little SSG is stronger than SS4 Gogeta. I'd think he is though being a God version of Super Saiyan, but I'm up to compare feats. How do you see SS4 Gogeta as stronger?

    I'm on the side that doesn't really believe base GT kid goku is stronger than end-of-DBZ SS3, not even SS2. Yes, he fights someone who's said to be as strong as majin buu (I imagine the fat one), but by the end of the buu saga & in the new movie, all the saiyan z-fighters are on par with Buu (SS2 Vegeta even surpasses SS3 Goku). GT Goku also toys with frieza/cell, but i'm sure post buu saga, once again my opinion is that the saiyan z-fighters could do the same. I don't consider GT taking the PL multiplier into account when they were creating it. Feats being shown, and the damage created in their fights, I don't think GT Goku is much stronger than end-of-DBZ goku. Especially since he can't use instant transmission or SS3 very long. Also, DBZ super gogeta (not even SS4) is listed as having a stronger power level than GT Omega Shenron (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels). This further complicates why I doubt GT kid Goku is stronger than adult DBZ goku, even though in GT he says he didnt feel a loss of power. The universes are different. In my opinion SSG Goku outclasses Omega Shenron as bad as SS4 Gogeta did, but SSG Goku doesn't have to worry about losing his power.

    Bro, i see You have taken a lot of trouble writing that. i will keep in mind what you said about SS4 Gogeta vs Super Sayain God

    But Goku in 17 Saga got a big boost his Base is strong as 2xDBZ SS3 Goku non fused. Goku already said in Hell now i am stronger than ever to Cell and Freza

    17 Saga Goku 2.3 times Stronger than 17 Saga Vegeta

    Majuub coud not move Super 17 with his full power. Only Vegeta SS2 and Goku SS1 could move him

    At the end of GT Shenron Goku base was little stronger than Omega shenron Full power. Imagine after Shenron Saga GT how Strong Goku would be. SS4 is a ape Transformation it mean full potential of the Sayain power he can use.

    People who say Vegeto is Strong as SS4 are the one who says SSG is Stronger than SS4 but they are wrong

    Bro, to be honest to you Goku got a lot Stronger than his was in DBZ as some say GT was 15 years later after DBZ.

    SSG wont able to beat 17 Saga SS4 Goku. Gogeta is way about that. Unless SSG has magic he cannot beat 17 saga SS4 Goku nor Gogeta in Strenth or raw power

    Honestly, I'd have to rewatch GT. It's been some years, and other than the fights scenes, i didnt pay that close attention lol. Like I was saying though, I dont think the writers took the multiplier into account for the 10-15 years between DBZ & GT. That's all just my opinion though. He said he was stronger than ever, but like I said, I'll have to watch it again. I don't know if he's just saying his base form is stronger than his base form has ever been, or if he actually means he's stronger than DBZ SS3. When frieza came back in DBZ he was supposedly way stronger than when Goku beat him & SS Trunks disposed of him like nothing. So, i'm sure any base form saiyan could beat Frieza easy by the end of cell saga & after the hyperbolic time chamber, and cell with a weak SS1 form after buu saga. Omega Shenron just didn't seem as impressive to me as the feats Bills was said to be able to do. I'm not going to say I'm right about SSG being stronger than SS4 Gogeta, as I honestly don't know GT well enough to say (even though I have watched the whole thing).

    When Goku achieved & felt the power of SSG he said he would never have been able to achieve that power on his own, no matter how much he would've trained. And SSG is not included in the original DBZ saga, so even though it's before the end of DBZ, the end of DBZ itself hadn't taken SSG into account. End-of-Battle of Gods Goku is stronger than the original end of DBZ goku. Of course you could apply it to the end of DBZ now, as nothing happened at the end to show Goku's power anyways. However, I don't feel it can really be said for GT. I could see the argument that it can too, but I feel because BoG kind of discredits it, GT isn't canon and can't apply it. This is all opinion though, not saying I'm really right.

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    Vegetto1990

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    GT is not part of the original canon DBZ storyline and manga. SSJ God is the strongest SSJ form in canon, that automatically disregards SSJ4 as being the stronger form no matter how you put it. Theirs also facts and feats to back up SSJG >>> SSJ4.

    Before BOG'S came out Super Vegetto was the strongest in Z. His Battle Power was Goku's "multiplied" by vegeta's. This is insane considering both goku and vegeta are in the multi millions in their regular forms and high billions in their SSJ forms. This puts Super Vegetto stronger than any GT character. No matter how much goku improved in GT his battle power wouldn't be remotely close to Super vegetto's. Just to give an example, Ginyu's battle power was 120,000, if we multiply that number to itself we get 14,400,000,000. LMAO. That's 14 Billion 400Mill. This is from someone only in the early hundred thousands so if we logically multiply anything on the level where goku and vegeta is at in the buu saga, you will get a ridiculous result.

    SSJG, Bills and Whis were the "strongest" guys toriyama and his crew made. He literally said they were at the point where their was "Nothing higher" (At the time), so those 3 are stronger than even super vegetto. Toriyama said Goku was a 6, Bills a 10 and whis a 15. So 100% God goku would be 60% of bills full power. Whis is a little over 2x stronger (6+6=12, whis is a 15) than god goku which is insane. SSJ4 gogeta made Omega shenron look like a child.

    Whis > Bills > SSJG > SSJ4 gogeta > Super vegetto > SSJ4

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    kuartus4

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    #18  Edited By kuartus4

    There's no way Goku's power level is 14.4 sextillion in base. Probably not even in God mode.

    In Battle of the Gods Beerus comments that he doesn't think base Goku could defeat frieza. Lets be nice to Goku. Beerus didn't actually say that base Goku would lose either, just that he would not win. So we can interpret that to mean that the most Beerus sees Goku doing is stalemating Frieza. The official dbz guide gives frieza's power level as 120 million. So I'll say that's base goku's power level as well. With the 50x super saiyan boost, Goku's PL would rise to 6 billion. With the 2x ssj2 boost it would rise to 12 billion. With the 4x ssj3 boost it would rise to 48 billion. As for Super Saiyan God Goku, all that's said by Goku is that its the greatest power he has ever felt, and since he felt super vegetto's power, that means Super Sayan God Goku>Super Vegetto. . So How strong is Super Vegetto?

    The official guide says Vegetto who was the result of a potara fusion, had a power level equal to goku's and vegeta's PL multiplied by each other.

    http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/

    Goku and Vegeta post majin were completely even up to ssj2, so I calculate Both of them to be at 5.25 billion in SSJ mode during the buu saga. So Super Saiyan Vegetto should be at 27.5 quintillion

    or 27,500,000,000,000,000,000.

    Ridiculous, I know. And Super Saiyan God Goku is higher than that. Still much lower than 1.03e+46 though which is what the OP claims.

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    Wolfus

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    @kuartus4 said:

    There's no way Goku's power level is 14.4 sextillion in base. Probably not even in God mode.

    In Battle of the Gods Beerus comments that he doesn't think base Goku could defeat frieza. Lets be nice to Goku. Beerus didn't actually say that base Goku would lose either, just that he would not win. So we can interpret that to mean that the most Beerus sees Goku doing is stalemating Frieza. The official dbz guide gives frieza's power level as 120 million. So I'll say that's base goku's power level as well. With the 50x super saiyan boost, Goku's PL would rise to 6 billion. With the 2x ssj2 boost it would rise to 12 billion. With the 4x ssj3 boost it would rise to 48 billion. As for Super Saiyan God Goku, all that's said by Goku is that its the greatest power he has ever felt, and since he felt super vegetto's power, that means Super Sayan God Goku>Super Vegetto. . So How strong is Super Vegetto?

    The official guide says Vegetto who was the result of a potara fusion, had a power level equal to goku's and vegeta's PL multiplied by each other.

    http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/

    Goku and Vegeta post majin were completely even up to ssj2, so I calculate Both of them to be at 5.25 billion in SSJ mode during the buu saga. So Super Saiyan Vegetto should be at 27.5 quintillion

    or 27,500,000,000,000,000,000.

    Ridiculous, I know. And Super Saiyan God Goku is higher than that. Still much lower than 1.03e+46 though which is what the OP claims.

    I agree with this.

    However, I don't think bills sensed all of goku's power in base. When he saw goku and thought that he couldn't defeat frieza , it was probably because goku was "hiding" his base form, or not releasing his full energy. After all, he was relaxing with king kai, so there would be no reason for him to be at full power in base form.

    Considering this, I believe that goku in base form majin buu saga= super saiyan goku frieza saga, due to the fact that the supreme kai could defeat frieza, and base goku was arround his level.

    These numbers are indeed ridiculous. Too big.

    However, i believe that they MIGHT be used to calculate speed and power if usen properly, but without assumptions. I guess we can only calculate goku's speed and power until SSJ3, because we have no idea on how powerful ssj god is.

    But it's safe to say that ssj god goku might be galaxy buster. Why is that? Because wiss said it himself that "galaxies get destroiedwhen bills same gets upset", which indicates a habit of bills, so it probably happened before. As dbz is purely based on raw power, it's safe to use A>B>C logic. So, as goku ssj god 80% managed to keep up with bills 70%, and bills is a galaxy buster, goku ssj god might be a galaxy buster too.

    And that's where I think it stops. So far, dbz has shown nothingsuperior than that, so goku is, best case scenario, a galaxy buster.

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    slimj87d

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    A lot of this thread makes a lot of assumptions that power level is linear with stats.

    That is wrong. Trunks is an example of someone that almost doubled his Pl but didn't increase his speed fast enough to fight cell.

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    Superlightning123

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    How about we take Goku's feats, and then determine how strong he is from that? Super Saiyan 3 is able to bust planets by punching them. King Kai's planet was 10x durable then earth. The gravity had more force. So it takes more effort to bust his planet than earth. Give Goku a super Saiyan 2- super Saiyan god and then maybe the comic fans might listen. No scaling. Take what Goku has done and go from there. I'm a super fan of Goku. But we gotta be realistic

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    Jigen879

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    Ssj4 is canon

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    ancient_god

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    SS4>SS God

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    aryantomar014

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    All above is just nonsense.

    goku's power level in battle of gods film is around

    100,000,000 as found on some other sites.

    And his super saiyan forms would have as follows -

    ssj 1 - 5,000,000,000

    ssj2 - 10,000,000,000

    ssj3 - 40,000,000,000

    Now vegeta had somewhere around

    Base - 95,000,000

    And his super saiyan forms would be found just like the above one of goku.

    ssj god goku at 100% power would have somewhere around

    -13,000,000,000,000

    And beerus - 20,000,000,000,000(never used but at 100% it would be this)

    Now to calculate the power level of fusions like lets say for the one with dance technique is

    Lets take for goku and vegeta first, if fusing in base form

    Then, power level - goku base PL + VEGETA BASE PL - that gives base form PL of Goleta but after going in ssj form Goleta will have base times 50 . moreover he can increase that power level of his to 10x in the same ssj form . so lets find the actual PL of Goleta in...... fusion reborn

    goku base - around -25,000,000

    vegeta base - the same

    Base levels added - base Goleta formed - 50,000,000

    Now, ssj Goleta - 50x 50,000,000 - 2,500,000,000 now his ability to increase to 10x it would then become - 25,000,000,000 . which is approximately double to that of super janemba's - 12,000,000,000 .

    So that was for dance fusion . now, for potara fusion .

    The PL is calculated by adding base level of both lets say goku and vegeta and then multiplying it by 600. I know it is shocking but that is what I have found till now on basis of my search .

    So, in the buy saga

    Super buu was at - 13,000,000,000 .

    buutenks at - 26,500,000,000 .

    After fusion wore off - buuccolo had power level - 14,032,500,000 by my calculation .

    Now after absorbing gohan , Buchan had PL at- 34,032,500,000 .

    Now vegito base level would be -

    goku base + vegeta base x600

    30,000,000 + 30,000,000 x600

    36,000,000,000 . now, this was enough to defeat Buchan but still vegito had to go ssj because Buchan was giving powerful attacks and there was not that much big difference in their power levels at that time. So, when vegito became super saiyan , super vegito had his power level at

    -50x 36,000,000,000 = 1,800,000,000,000 . or we can say approx. 2,000,000,000,000 after charging up a litter bit.

    So now lets compare super Gogeta at maximum and super vegito at the same max.power but on the same time in the series lets take buu saga .

    Now for Gogeta first, as I told above - it would be - 30,000,000 x2 = 60,000,000 at base form now at super Gogeta form it would change to - 60,000,000 x50= 3,000,000,000 . after increasing it to max. Level I mean by 10x increase. - 10x 3,000,000,000 = 30,000,000,000.

    Now super vegito's power level as calculated above was found to be at around - 1,800,000,000,000 . so by comparing them we get

    -1,800,000,000,000/30,000,000,000 = 60/1 . this shows how much strong are fusion and potara .

    But keep in mind that these levels would keep on increasing till battle of gods film so pls don't start to think that how can ssj god or beerus have power level more than vegito or Goleta at further ssj state .

    So just chill out.

    Well, that was all I had to explain!! bye

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    So Half Life 3 confirmed?

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    flashback0180

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    >-< ...

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    deactivated-63c1a72900876

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    I was linked to this thread and just could not handle myself...I had to respond. Earth is 86x as massive as the Moon, which can be obliterated with a power level of 120. This means the Earth likely can be destroyed with a power level of 10,000 or so. At SSJ3, Goku with a power level of 1.2 Billion can destroy 120,000 earths. I urge you to smack your math teacher in the mouth for failing you so terribly. Based on your insane math, Vegeta was able to withstand the power level of billions of times that of Goku in SSJ3 form...yet all in Vegeta's SSJ2.

    Vegeta surpassed SSJ3 and held more power within himself for a brief moment than Goku in SSJ3 form. You can give him the benefit of the doubt and say he 100x'ed his power in strength and even then the numbers aren't anywhere near yours. SSJG is the same as SSJ4 from GT. It was likely to be an erasing of the stain of GT without going too far beyond it for starters. The writers knew that making SSG Goku a trillion times his power level in SSJ3 form would be ridiculous even by their standards. Goku wouldn't even be able to walk or breath, the entire section of the galaxy would instantly cease to exist simply by the speed at which Goku's electrical impulses were moving ( billions of times light speed? What the hell man? ) Nobody was light speed until Gotenks and Mystic Gohan and SSJG and Birus are not billions of times as fast/powerful as them.

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    kinhachi

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    First off pl stopped after frieza so pl from then on are assumptions and inacurrate

    Second whether you believe gt is canon or not. Remeber akira toriyama called gt a side story. He never said what he meant by that and unless u can read minds u don't know what he meant, but a side story is a story that coexist with the main story so it is in the same universe as bog. In bod goku becomes ssjg and fights bills at 70% the loses ssjg and becomes ssj and fights bills at 80% seeing as bills stomped goku as ssj3 before ssjg and ssjg powered up his base form, his base form would now be around that of (prabably) high than) ssj3 which carry's over to gt. So base goku is around ssj3 and ssj is around ssjg then ssj4 would clearly be higher than ssjg.

    Third the mftl would subject remember the after image technique? A technique that allows the user to move fast enough to leave an image in their place and we see images based on light. That is the same definition of a tachyon particles which are particles that move fast than light. Goku preformed this technique as a kid with a pl of 180ish (hosently I can't remember exactly) which he only got faster. If that's not proof enough remember the 5 min fight with frieza they even had a conversation in the middle of the fight.

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    honeyboi_chad

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    #31  Edited By honeyboi_chad

    SS3 Goku punching King Kai's planet which has 10x gravity because of it's mass:

    The first calculation is figuring out the mass of the planet using gravity and radius since those are the two things we know.

    The next step is Volume, using the radius.

    And the third is density using the mass and volume we calced.

    I also have links to a few calculators/convertors I checked the answers on.

    Rearanged gravity formula to calculate mass instead (had to do short hand got formula from wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_gravity

    g = m/r^2

    m = r^2 x g

    Volume formula

    V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

    Density Formula

    P = M/V

    *Very good overall calculator

    http://web2.0calc.com/

    cm/g to m/kg calculator

    http://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-dens ... perm3.html

    Density calculator

    http://www.smartconversion.com/unit_cal ... lator.aspx

    Volume calculator

    http://www.basic-mathematics.com/volume ... lator.html

    Heres the actual calcs

    g = m/r^2

    m = r^2 x g

    m = 0.0000156961230576^2 x 10

    m = 0.0000000024636827904 earth masses

    Earths mass = 5.97219 × 10^24 kilograms

    5.97219 × 10^24 X 0.0000000024636827904 = 14,713,581,723,998,976

    m = 14,713,581,723,998,976 kg

    This considers King akis planet as 100m radius and 10X gravity.

    The small number is the size of king kais planets radius in relation to Earths.

    volume of a sphere is V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

    V = (4/3) × pi × 100m^3 = 4188790.2047863905m^3

    This is using King kais planet as 100m radius.

    Knowing the mass and Volume we can get density.

    P = M/V

    P = 14713581723998976kg / 4188790.2047863905m^3

    P = 3.512608892.9415128417291527 X 10^9 kg/m^3

    Density of a white dwarf star: "The average density of matter in a white dwarf must therefore be, very roughly, 1,000,000 times greater than the average density of the Sun, or approximately 10^6 g/cm3." Which translates to 10^9 kg/m^3. So in other words it is over 3.5 times as dense as a white dwarf star.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dwarf

    If you don't believe this then I found some other calcs.

    It doesn't matter here the dimension of the planet, but the density, since we are talking about a PUNCH, not a Ki blast.

    King Kai's planet is not more than 30 meters in diameter (pixels-scaling), but even if it is 40, 50 or 90 meters, the order of magnitude, physically talking, is still the same (i.e. 10).

    Now, gravitational force of a planet is given by this formula:

    F = (G*M*m)/r^2

    G is the universal gravitational constant (6,67*10^-11 [m^3/(kg*s^2)];

    M is the mass of the planet

    m is the generic reference mass

    r is the radius of the planet (or distance between the two masses' centers)

    Since King Kai's gravitational force is 10 times the Earth gravitational force, we have Fk (gravitational force of King Kai's planet) 10 times bigger than Fe (Earth's gravity).

    Fk/Fe = [(G*Mk*m)/rk^2]/[(G*Me*m)/re^2] = 10

    G and m are in commons and go away, so we have:

    (Mk/rk^2)/(Me/re^2) = 10

    Mass is Volume (V)*Density (D), with Volume (of a generical planet) = (4/3)*π*r^3;

    back to the formula:

    ((4/3)*π*rk^3*Dk)/rk^2 = Fk and ((4/3)*π*re^3*De)/re^2 = Fe, so:

    Fk/Fe = (Dk*rk)/(De*re) = 10.

    The only unknown term is Dk (density of King Kai's planet), while we know De and re of Earth and rk = 15 meters (assuming a diameter of King Kai's planet of 30 m, as previously said).

    So, Dk = 1,17*10^10 kg/m^3, while density of Earth (De) is 5,5153*10^3 kg/m^3, so the density of King Kai's planet is around 2 millions of times higher than the desnity of Earth, and Goku punched a whole hole throughout this material.

    The most dense material known is Osmium, which has a density of 22661 kg/m^3, and, because of that, it's also the material which is most resistant to compression (462 GPa).

    King Kai's planet is still half a million times more dense than this, and thus even way more resistant to physical compression.

    Even if King Kai's planet had the same gravitational force as Earth, the fact it has such a small diameter would still imply a huge density, and indeed, it would still have a density around 200000 times bigger than the density of Earth.

    Do you have some info about that planet destroyed by Gladiator?

    Because it could be a planet 2 times bigger than Earth, but 100 times less dense, making this feat pale compared to Goku's striking punch.

    Indeed, what really matters when talking about physical punches is the density, and AT, giving us a planet of a few meters of diameter and with a gravitational force 10 times bigger than the one on Earth, is indisputably giving us that previously said enormous level of density.

    Imaging taking a cube of 1 meter of each side of the following materials:

    - average Sun composition: it would weigh around 1,4 tons;

    - average Earth composition: it would weigh around 5,5 tons;

    - core of the Sun material: it would weigh 150 tons;

    - King Kai's planet material: it would weigh around 10 millions tons;

    - Neutron Star material: it would weigh around 280000 billions tons.

    Punching the core of the Sun would obviously require inhuman physical strength, regardless of how much matter, in kg, you punch away; even worse would be just trying to physically scratch the surface of a Neutron Star.

    Well, a not even bloodlusted Ssj3 Goku actually vaporizes, with one punch, a whole quantity of a material which, according to canon info about King Kai's planet, has thousands of times the density of the core of the Sun.

    This is insane, literally insane.

    Punching the Earth material for Goku would thus be a joke: for him, it would be like punching air, and the Earth would collapse on itself.

    "Part of martial arts it to focus your inner energy, and that is exactly what has been stated over and over from time and time again in the series, and not just by Goku. This "focus of inner energy" is what allows them to pull planet shattering punches against opponents and not destroy the planet via excessive energy (i.e. shock-waves). Their energy is so focused that they are able to subconsciously control it without needed effort on a conscious level"

    this is my take on his punching feat in battle of God's

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    kinhachi

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    @honeyboi_chad: love the work you did I got lost several times and had to go back and reread. Next time add a final results so we can precisely say his force in his punch. From this that's goku absolute minimum full powered punch but then that's ssj3 pre ssjg in which ssjg masters gokus base form making it equivalent to ssj3 if you use the multipliers the its x400 for post ssjg.

    So my question is how much force is needed to do that.

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    honeyboi_chad

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    @kinhachi: its hard to say right now because i couldn't get a cear scan of how much of the planet he destroyed with that punch(its way higher than death battles feats on his strength n striking ability thats for sure) but i do know that goku in ssj 3 < to bills finger and a finger produces 0.01% of a persons power on average so ssj1 goku after ssj god had to be 10,000 times as strong after the fight. his base also seems stronger due to tge simple fact that from what's seen in revival of F goku and vegeta spar with bills and whis in their base forms something that was nowhere possible in battle of gods.

    if i get a good idea of how big the hoke through king kais planet was i can give a decent calc on it the add the ssj god power up to it to get a decent number of bis strength in revival of F unlesd he gets more impressive feats by the movies release date

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    kinhachi

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    #34  Edited By kinhachi

    @honeyboi_chad: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kqzjj9cVLhM

    8:10

    to me it looks like 1/5 of the planet from the exit

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    honeyboi_chad

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    @kinhachi: would mean that goku punched 20% of the planet away pr 20 meters of a dense planet away... if you look bacl at the calc 1 cube with a meter length on each side it would weight 10 million tons so if you put that 20 meters into cubes it would weight about 50,000,000 tons(20÷4=5×10 million) thats a minimum force that goku through at bills in a single blow before the 10,000 times power increase to his ssj 1 after super saiyan god mode meaning that goku in ssj 3 by revival of F without out training(he trains with bills n whis for most of but time skip but i got no feats yet) should have a striking strength of 4e12 tons per blow or simply a 4,000,000 mt punch per blow(50,000,000×10,000×2×4÷1,000,000)

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    honeyboi_chad

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    @kinhachi: and that would be gokus strking without much combat speed, gokus been calculated to move at 17 times light speed in ssj 3 due to tge namek feat(flew across the planet in a second to confront frieza) after you apply his times 10,000 power increase u can move at 408198400000 km/s in ssj 3 or over 1361603.2996 times ftl when moving meaning that his combat speed is around light speed so if he was to strike while locked in even combat he would be able to punch harder even without using his ki to make it even harder than that

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    kinhachi

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    @honeyboi_chad: that is traveling speed I had an argument debunking that as a combat speed because names size isn't known.https://plus.google.com/+YoussefAhmed/posts/PMeDpjyvvmx

    You don't have to read it all just skip towards the end

    He fought bills seriously because bills was toying with him so he was using his ki.

    And you haven't told me how you got the x10,000 multiplier because ssj is x50 and ssjg is about ssj=80% ssjg so ssjg=x60 base making base goku post ssjg>ssj3 pre ssjg

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    honeyboi_chad

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    @kinhachi: its 10 thousands because ssj 3 goku couldn't match lord billses finger in the beginning scene a finger can only produce 0.01% of ones actually strength so if he were to have to match bills at full power he would need to be over 10,000 times stronger(0.01×10000) to reach a even level with the level of power that bills was using in thr start of the movie(he used 70% towards the end

    oh n ik that gokus combat speed isn't equal to his travel time but he for a fact fights a lightspeed because anything else would be a low percent of his travel speed which would still be massively fastest without ssjg

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    Blade_R

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    Current Base Goku > SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku

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    kinhachi

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    #41  Edited By kinhachi

    @blade_r: no ones disputes that its a fact

    @honeyboi_chad: ohh I gottcha that helps me the another thing I'm working

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    kinhachi

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    @honeyboi_chad: with some calcs (10,000x.7)÷50=140

    Meaning base goku is x140 ssj3 pre ssjg

    140x400=56,000

    Base goku post ssjg is x56,000 base goku pre ssjg

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    honeyboi_chad

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    kinhachi

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    @honeyboi_chad: what do you say about us making a dbz power scale guide such as what we just did

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    ultrasound_214

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    #45  Edited By ultrasound_214

    Guys goku is favorite hero! But he isnt that strong, he is probably only a 100 tonner. He couldn't hold back beerus blast, even when he was amping up his ki. But hopefully he'll be stronger in revival of frieza!

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    SodamYat

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    heh...

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    honeyboi_chad

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    kinhachi

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    honeyboi_chad

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    @kinhachi: no im free rn u mind watching these before we start?

    Death Battle Goku VS Superman Math Check Final: https://youtu.be/hKQdo6aD04s

    Death Battle Goku VS Superman Gravity Formula Debunked: https://youtu.be/I2tUWJ3lpZk

    its a good thing to base stuff off of if we're gonna power scale

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    kinhachi

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    #50  Edited By kinhachi

    @honeyboi_chad: alright but here's something I commented on

    https://plus.google.com/105182932473347979327/posts/Rrc5cAuvmgc

    Edit: but this was while ago when I made these calcs

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