Jean Grey School for Jerks?

Over the last 6 or 7 months the Jean Grey School's X-Men have been sort of cold toward a lot of older cast members and teammates.

Prior to the beginning of the Hellfire Arc, Kitty fired Husk and the group didnt appear to care what happened to a long time X-Men after she had displayed fits of mental instability.

Gambit attempts to break in and steal a possible dangerous artifact(lets say we believe him) and Wolverine lectured him and ignored the threat because he believed that the spells to activate the artifact were lost. Which seemed like odd reasoning considering how many crazy spells an alternate worlds he's seen.

Wolverine through Psylock out of the school prior to the beginning of Uncanny X-Force despite knowing and even relating to the things she'd been through.

Then they recently voted Toad out of the Mansion despite his actions and motivation during the Hellfire Arc being more relatable then there own.

My question here is, are the X-Men at the school in the right for their pragmatic view on how to deal with these situations, when you consider the amount of betrayals they've suffered over the years. OR are they not nearly as tight nit and caring as we've seen previous line-ups and are operating on a strict "keep your personal crap at home" ideal system?

This is all just a combination of bad and incoherent writing.

@koays: firstly, I don't think the way they've treated Toad has been completely unfair; he was only given the job out of sympathy, they were doing him a favor, really, and he did betray their trust in a pretty major way (regardless of how he might have redeemed himself as a character).

Psylocke seemed more like she was asked to leave because she obviously didn't have her head in the game as a teacher or an X-man (we can assume that most of the events of Uncanny X-Force occurred either before or between the first few arcs of X-Men), and has since obviously been welcomed back.

Gambit was given a choice and chose to leave. And I think that was fair, given all the unwanted attention the X-men and the school get anyway, should they be expected to harbor a fugitive who's just committing crimes for the thrill of it? I guess it would be easy to make a comparison with Quire here, but Quire was really just commuting his sentence since he was going to be sent to jail. Plus Quire's kind of just a kid being given a second chance. Gambit's an adult who's had lots of second chances with the team, including Wolverine's most recent ultimatum; he made his own choice on that.

Husk is kind of just getting her first second chance. Though she may have betrayed the X-men similarly to the way Toad did, like you say, she's obviously having problems of her own that they haven't really addressed. And she's dedicated years of service to the team, rather than, say, being one of their oldest villains. yeah, villains can redeem themselves, but Toad just really hasn't.

Overall, I would say that the way the school has dealt with these issues has been pragmatic, but really they were all just reasons for those characters to be in different stories. At the very least they seem like they're being consistent, even fair with these issues, so I don't really have any issue with it.

@ageofhurricane: I would agree with that statement. The Xmen have become a joke under this writer's pen

quoted for truth

Logan's lectures to Gambit were hilariously hypocritical. But frankly i like Remy NOT at the JGS... mayhaps Cerval's X-Factor will give him a chance to shine.

Bad writing + current Wolverine's ridiculous amounts of hypocrisy + current Wolverine acting like a Korean dictator after being given power (bad writing) + paranoia running rampant through out the top echelon of the school.

@oldnightcrawler:

I don't disagree with your reasoning since I could see any of these things (except the Husk thing) as a distraction from what they were trying to do with the school being a school an not just the face of the X-men. An I can see it as smart especially having just reread an old issue where they let Mystique join the team.

But when Cyclops came for recruits, they seemed glad to have the Cuckoo's gone as well because they "creeped them out". And the odd thing is that Husk's situation sort of mirrors Iceman's recent omega level swing. Maybe I'm being to strict on continuity, but it seems to paint a picture of an inner circle within the school that considers everyone else unnecessary. If they are being pragmatic then they seem a bit cold about it for X-Men.

I don't know if that's really fair, considering that almost everyone who's joined the school (or the X-men, for that matter) has been given some kind of second chance. Iceman and Husk may get more of a chance than Toad, but considering their years of dedication compared to his years of being an unrepentant criminal (who's both lead the Brotherhood and tried to take down the school before), that still seems fair. The X-men have always been about giving second chances to characters with shady pasts, but as you point out, it's not like that's always worked out for them.

Sure, there may be an inner circle of X-men who feel the need to control those second chances, but given that they're responsible for a school full of children, and how often they've been burned, that just seems pragmatic to me.

i just wish Husk would get more of a story, and not one where her body is falling apart, shes got a t hing for toad and goign bat shit crazy

My thing with Husk is that Kitty new she was unstable and when Husk, (who they'd established had a problem) didn't except help they fired her. And when Cyclops shows up, and they all acknowledge that he's dangerous, their like good riddance to three creepy kids, Toad's untrustworthy I can except that but it seems like they'd work a little harder on one of their own.

I get that this time around, the school is a school first, and not the base of the X-Men/Boarding School like.it was when say Polaris went crazy. But the way the core group of Wolverine, Storm, Beast, Iceman and formerly Kitty have been portrayed makes it hard to like them.

actually, Kitty said that she wasn't firing her, that she just couldn't let her teach classes until they got her some help. To which Husk said that if Kitty "didn't have the guts to fire her she'd save her the trouble" and quit (Wolverine & the X-Men #18 - Dance Like There's No Tomorrow!). So that was totally Husk's decision.

Then, even after she quit, joined the Brotherhood, took students to the Hellfire school, -even after all that- they still gave her another job at the school. Why they thought someone as emotionally unstable as her would make a good guidance councilor still doesn't make sense to me, but it hardly seems cold.

As for the Cuckoos, as Kitty points out (All-New X-Men #10), "they were only here in the first place because of Emma", which is both a reference to them coming to the school in Morrison's run and Emma's fall from grace in AvsX; either way, they've always been more Emma's students/children than part of the rest of the X-men.

Maybe they shouldn't have let any of the students go with Cyclops' team, which would also have been justifiable, given that they were wanted criminals, but it's not like them keeping the Cuckoos from going with Emma -their only real family- would have made them look any better.

I do see your point with this though, that having these characters in these roles puts them in a position to have to make the hard decisions, and therefore makes them somewhat less likable. It's easier somehow to picture Xavier or Cyclops making these decisions because it's what we expect of them (as the title of this thread is a nod to), while characters like Storm, Wolverine, Kitty, etc, have traditionally been made likable by arguing against those positions of authority.

Now that they have those responsibilities, it's changed their perspective, but, for me, that shows how the characters have changed and grown, so I can still appreciate it on that level. They're still the X-men, they're still the characters I like, they're just having to grow up a little.

I'd really love to see her join Storm's team with Jubilee and M; the three of them always had such a great dynamic between them.

Heck, throw Chamber in there too, let one generation of students really grow up to be the X-men.

@oldnightcrawler: That Kitty just let her walk out is what I mean though. Your mentally unstable friend, just did what mentally unstable people do and flew off the handle and she just lets her walk out.... to me it just brings up bad memories of Wither from Academy X being allowed to leave.

And with the Cuckoo's, despite them having established loyalties and connections to both Scott and Emma I think there should have been a moment where they spoke to them.

I also believe there was an issue immediately before the Hellfire arc in WATXM where Wolverine leaves a kid in the Savage land to join up with Sauron in the Hell Fire school.

Of course I realize that for both streamlined story sake and issue length these scenes showing them being extra worried or concerned aren't important enough to add to the book, but it paints a bad picture.

If you compare this to growing pains of the characters taking on a leadership role and changing with the times I can sort of understand, since Xavier, Emma and Cyclops made more then their fair share of mistakes in regards to safety or niceties in their tenures. But it seems like at this point the writers have turned them into harder less forgiving characters for the sake of the new status quo, which seems wrong when you consider how they're portrayed when they interact with each other.

Beast and Iceman seem to be treated differently then Gambit and Husk, and their situations are comparable. But maybe the X-Books in general just need more guidance in terms of their character portrayals from book to book.

@oldnightcrawler:

So you do admit The Cuckoos' are like Emma's chilldren, although Emma cares about them, i think she treats them more like prize students

I see your point, but Husk is an adult, so it's not like Kitty could really stop her leaving without also disrespecting her choice to do so.

And she was already running the school on a skeleton crew because most of the staff were away fighting with the Avengers, so she had a lot of other responsibilities to attend at the time. Maybe that's harsh, but there is Kitty's side of that too.

I don't disagree with that, just that there wasn't that moment doesn't bother me especially.

Right, Glob Herman. Already getting his second chance at the time. The way Wolverine says "my nose tells me he's already made other arrangements" (Wolverine & the X-Men #28), seems to imply that he realized that Glob had left with Sauron. Again, this is an example of a character being given a second chance and choosing not to take it, so I can't blame Wolverine for that one.

I see your point, but considering that they collectively have given second chances to Toad, Quire, Glob, Gambit, Iceman, and now Husk, forgiving them in some cases, but at least giving them second chances, it seems hard to blame them just because some of those characters choose not to stick around (Husk, Gambit, the Cuckoos), just strait up blow the chance their given (Toad), or both (Glob).

In the cases of Husk, Toad, or Gambit, I think we're meant to see the X-men as authority figures, to show how those characters feel like outsiders to that, and to make us sympathetic to that; but that doesn't mean that the X-men don't have justifiable reasons for what they do or their own sides of the story too.

oh, also I'm not sure what you mean by this part.

yes, I admit they are like Emma's children.

@oldnightcrawler:

I'll admit, looking back Wolverine even comments alludes to the fact that Glob's defection was a failure on his part. So there is that, but he still left him with a dangerous enemy rather then go after him...unless his nose could sense Glob left willingly(which given Sauron's powers is odd, but I chalk it up to bad writing).

The thing is it seems like this group, despite being senior X-Men have an odd fit about them.
Maybe it is just nostalgia for the Prof. X days or the Cyclops and Emma duo.. but 4-5 X-Men all making "tough decisions" in the name of leadership and appearing to be of one mind on matters makes it almost feels like they're saying you should get in line and play your part or leave... if your not in the Logan/Storm/Beast club.

And it's not wrong that they share the duties....it's just not doing them any favors when they're the only X-team we see at the school.

@oldnightcrawler:

Basically when Gambit tries to avert a potential, but not very likely, catastrophe and gets caught he received a lecture from Wolverine about all the reasons it couldn't happen and how he handled the situation poorly and should focus on the school.

And (Assuming we believe Gambit) it begs the question where was Beast's lecture about bringing the original X-Men from the past to avert a potential, but not very likely, "mutant genocide".

You can argue that he was sick but within the story I think Gambit had higher moral ground since they didn't send the O5 back and who knows what may happen.

Also Iceman lost control of his power and went mentally out of control less then a year after Cyclops and yet he gets to be supported by his friends, while Husk just walks out and no one goes after her but the janitor.

I know Astonishing always took place in it's own little world but it was within a month of the Hell Fire club storyline...so maybe editors don't care, but it's in continuity and it adds to the characters

somehow I knew you were going to bring this up.. my take on it is that Wolverine's supposed to be one of the best hunter/trackers in the world, meaning that he could probably at least tell if there had been any kind of struggle at the scene where he found/lost their scent before the Glob and Sauron's departure. Knowing Glob and not being able to find any trace of a struggle may have just been conclusive enough for him, though I can concede that whether or not it actually should have been is debatable.

yeah, I guess. I think it's getting better in Storm's book: seeing her team as separate from the core group, and that the new X-men are being used in the field again, makes it feel like there's a few different groups working out of the school anyway.

And that maybe the core group aren't even meant to be the most relevant at present, so much as they're simply the context for the other groups (Storm's X-men, Wolverine's students, and the new X-men).

I blame Wolverine

I agree, and hopefully Amazing will become the home for that core group of x-men so they won't have such a strong presence in the WATXM relaunch. Really it is just odd when you remember how many x-men are supposedly on the teaching staff, that this was the group featured across so many titles, but Storm's X-Men book is starting to better define the relationship beyond just the JGS X-Men.

Well, the way I remember it, Beast did get chewed out for his actions by the rest of the staff (and Captain America), and then he did try to send the O5 back. So, that he was unsuccessful was in reversing his poor decision was not for lack of trying, whereas Gambit was given a choice not to do something again and chose to not make that choice, so it's kind of a different thing.

Besides just being a different situation, there's also a different level of superhero cred between an original X-man and old-school Avenger making a poor decision about how to use his super-science compared to the school harboring the literal prince of thieves who simply refuses to stop stealing.

I feel like the Iceman situation is somewhat singular in a couple of ways. Firstly, while he was under some influence from the Apocalypse seed, he still admits that his decisions were ultimately his own and concedes that he does deserve to be punished, which differs pretty drastically from when Angel, Wolverine, Cyclops, etc.. were being controlled by Apocalypse or the Phoenix in that he still blames himself and not the outside influence.

While the argument could be made that this actually makes him more guilty than other characters who've been in similar situations, the fact that he takes responsibility for his actions still makes him look more responsible, and therefore more trustworthy. On top of that, there's the issue of him being potentially unstoppable; so even if they can afford to take any measures against (imprison/banish/fire/kill) one of their most powerful and longstanding members, is it actually prudent to risk incurring the return of his dark side to do so?

It's also worth mentioning that I think in some small way, Wolverine feels somewhat responsible for pushing Iceman towards that side of his personality when he requests that he step up his game (Wolverine & the X-Men #2 "Amazing? I can do amazing.."). So besides Iceman conceding responsibility for his actions, there's also that it's another thing Wolverine blames himself for.

Like Quire or Wolverine's other students, you get the feeling that Wolverine's sense of responsibility towards Iceman is at least partially based on the idea that he'd rather have him on his side than have to risk fighting him in the future, which is ultimately just pragmatic even while still coming from a place of wanting to help his fellow mutants. At the very least it's more comparable to how the Avengers would rather have Hulk or Scarlet Witch on their team than have to worry about the next time they go crazy, since, despite Iceman's level of power, he's still got a better track record of mental stability than those characters (and lots of other Avengers, for that matter). Still, even if you could almost see this as Wolverine taking a page from Cap's playbook, the fact remains that really, he's not left with many other options in this situation.

All of which differs in at least a few ways from Husk's situation. Besides that the X-men might feel ultimately compelled to help both of them deal with the psychological pressures that their powers put on them, that Iceman has been shown to be both a more reliable X-man and a far greater potential threat than Husk simply puts him in another league. But even then, that's not to say they were any less willing to help her either.

Agreed. While I can see why they would want to keep Wolverine and Storm as a presence across all three books both for context (and, yeah, because they're so popular/recognizable), I like that their roles are becoming less central to the distinct group identities emerging from each of those books.

The hierarchy of having Amazing' be the book about the staff and WatX-men being about the students, with X-men being the book where characters from both groups come together as the main team, just kind of works for me. If they can keep them at least roughly that distinct, I could live with that.

@oldnightcrawler: I hate to be the person who says things like "Kitty didn't call Husk" or "they didn't check in on her after they couldn't use her". Because those are things that could've happened off panel or could not have. And I don't want to debate whether these X-Men are good people or not...but Husk is questionable subject.

I'd like to think that Husk, though she's no Storm or Iceman, has a power dangerous enough that you wouldn't want her to have a breakdown in a public place. It's irresponsible, and seems cold since whether you can destroy the world or not isn't something you'd expect veteran team members to use as the basis for whether they help you or not.
Though how you help an adult who doesn't want your help, but could pose a serious danger to the public is another question.

I'm not going to judge what could've happened off panel since I do think their good people, but on panel they haven't been depicted very flattering. The attitudes over this last year, especially in WATXM have really painted the JGS' big 5 as the people in a villains origin story who couldn't be bothered....and pretty much every example could've easily been one.

Still, if they can keep the balance between the books like you said, then we'll be able to see a better light from the characters then just the judgmental authority that we've been getting.

That, and that the X-men by definition are pricks.

That's a fair point, but given Husk's history up until the Hellfire Saga, even including her questionable emotional state, she hadn't given them any reason to think that she posed a threat; up until then she'd been a model X-man. Even conceding that her emotional problems were caused by her powers, it wasn't so much her powers that made her a threat in that case as it was her instability.

So maybe they should have tried harder to help her, and Iceman for that matter, before they got to that point, but hindsight's sort of 20/20, right?

Something I've been really enjoying about Amazing X-Men so far is that it's making the core cast seem fun and human again, which is weird to me since it seems like it was as much Aaron making those characters seem like jerks as anyone. Though to be fair, Bendis, Humphries, David, and some of the other X-writers haven't done much to help that in using the staff as foils for characters they want to focus on.

This is it exactly.

Whenever you see the JGS it's these same characters and when they stand unified whoever they argue with looks like the underdog fighting against this emotionless command structure. Wolverine and the X-Men, and even it's portrayal in Legacy seemed like the fun books and cast in the beginning, and somewhere after AvX it just seemed to lose the personality of it's characters.

Beast of course needs more work, but Storm, Iceman, and Wolverine look much better just 4 issues in to Amazing. And I look forward to Rachel in X-Men. So I guess there is a lot of promise on the come up, so long as they don't end WatX graduation issue by throwing out the New X-Men kids for not being weird looking enough for the Relaunch.

totally agree with both of these points.

Which is maybe why I haven't judged the group as harshly as some, having ignored much of WatX-men and most of legacy, and seeing their roles as authority figures as functions of other characters' stories.

It's like how I don't think of Superman for being a jerk for how he's portrayed in The Dark Knight Returns, because it's really Batman's story.

Hell, that's what I'm saying since the end of AvX the JGSCrew wasn't likable at all!

Yes. Hypocrisy is all over the place because there is just no consistency.

I agree with this. I just wish that all the X-Men books actually tried to be more consistent with the directions they want to take the characters.

Cheers to that.