If you absolutlely had to reboot the franchise...

Pretend you get a job working at Marvel just as they are about to do a whole reboot of the entire universe....I don't know, 616 gets blown up and another reality takes the place as the central Marvel Universe.

So, you walk in and the moment Axel Alonso, Marvel Editor and Chief, is about to tell you how you must have Jean grey be a transsexual and Cyclops must be a Somalian in this reboot to appease rabid PC, internet culture, he has a heart attack and drops dead and you are free to do whatever you want--how do you do it???

Do you put mutants in their own universe?? If so, how do you work around core concepts that link the X-Men to the larger Marvel Universe??

Do you start with the o5?

Do you just have one book??

Note: I am not asking whether or not you think they should reboot the X-Men (I personally think they never should) I am just asking, for fun, what you think they should do with it or what would you specifically do....

You could give me long form explanations of what you would do, you don't have too, it would be cool, or just a couple of ideas.....or you could just use bullet points or something

Here is an example, not particularly what I would do, just an example:

Beforehand

*Magneto is from a fictional country where he suffers at the hands of a terrorist sect (solves him being a near 90 year old as a survivor of Auschwitz) Magneto spends adult life trying to hunt them down (hey, just like the First Class movie)

*Xavier is recruited by Fred Duncan to join a government task force to hunt down a dangerous mutant, later they find Magneto and he joins and this is how he meets Xavier (First Class again!!)

*The mutant they are hunting and the guy quasi responsible for the death and hardships of Magneto is a man named Amhoul Farouk, they track him down in Egypt, Xavier defeats him on the Astral plane, and after seeing mutants work together to combat a mutant using his powers for ill gain, gets the idea for the X-Men

*On their way back to the US Xavier and Magneto have a falling out and Magneto accidentally cripples Xavier (Just steal everything from First Class!)

Etcetera.

So...what would you do with the X-Men if you had to reboot it??

I wouldn't. Reality is harsh, you just have to accept it.

There's no single writer I trust to revision Clairmontian testaments. Besides, when a guy can control a prime force of the universe, him being 90 is probably the most sane part of it.

Hey, thanks for reading the OP

Note: I am not asking whether or not you think they should reboot the X-Men (I personally think they never should) I am just asking, for fun, what you think they should do with it or what would you specifically do....

@cattlebattle:

But that's kind of point, I don't think the word reboot is the right one for what I'd wish for the franchise to walk through. A change of priorities, emphasizing on the right angles and aspects, but pretty much everything that I like about the X's is already there. Just challenge the failing humanism, that what my inspiring motto and driving factor would've been.

@cattlebattle: I just want the classic villains back. Maybe not Mags, but there are others.

Why?? Haven't you seen them enough? You can read the older comics and see the classic villains.

I'd bring the team back together.

Beata

True. But they rehashed the same extinction BS from before while the X-men have a sizable rogues gallery that you would think would expand due to Secret Wars throwing other realties into the new universe. There are plenty other ways they could have gone WITHOUT having to kill off most of the x-men OR benching their best members/villains.

I don't know if this would work as a reboot. Might be better as a alternate reality book next to the main titles.

Only X-Men in this universe.

I would make everyone age in real time. We have already seen so many diffrent incarnations of these charecters, so we should be able to actually age them and reboot(or end it) when everyone gets too old. Every story has a beginning and a ending and it would be nice to try and tell a complete story with these charecters instead of making them immortal. Plus, they currently ignore most continuity that is older than five years in favor of trying to pick up new readers.

With a reboot you have to change things, otherwise you would be better off reprinting the old issues. So why start with the O5? Might as well change it up. Have a team inspired by the Claremont era. Cyclops, Jean, Nightcrawler, Storm, Beast, and Wolverine. Tweak the origins of these charecters as well. Cut the Starjammers out of Scott's origin. Downgrade Jean's power some to make her a telekinetic with minor telepathic abilities. Downgrade Wolverine's power. Make him the skilled fighter with a slower healing factor like he had in the 80's. Definitely need to change Nightcrawler's origin away from that bullshit that Austin wrote. Have Beast be in his human form, being broad and stalky with big feet. Wouldn't use costumes in favor of uniforms. No tights.

Would make the world more realistic. Would keep it down to earth and try and avoided going too sci-fi. Would present mutants as dangerous. Have stories of mutants hurting or killing people when their powers manifest. Have some angst filled mutants going on a rampage. Give a real reason for mutants to be hated and feared in this modern age.

@immolation: Thanks for actually posting some ideas other than criticizing.

Sounds grim.....

That is a good question regarding how to work around the links the Marvel U, if we booted the Xmen to their own universe. The only thing I could think of is to have it somehow put out there that there is a mirror universe in which mutants are almost extinct and have it based on evolution or whaeltever and then somehow earth mutants are sent to this mirror type earth which enrages baseline humans. Lol maybe another No More Mutants but they are just thrown into another dimension similar to the current one but mutants are the only ones powered. I don't know about that one obviously.

As far as a reboot now. I'm not great with this stuff. I generally can expand on someone else's idea but my own are difficult because I think I try to cover to many angles and answer all potential questions when no comic writer does that, they tend to ignore what they want to. Soooo.....maybe something with Jean Grey returning. 1st I'll do an Age of X type scenario where Hope Summers goes Dark Messiah and the result is a war in which mutants are nearly hunted to extinction. Because of this other host of the Phoenix in the white hot room decide that the current landscape isn't working so they decide to burn it away. Jean comes to warn the Xmen and a huge Phoenix war ensues in which there are many casualties. Jean and the remaining Xmen are so broken by the events and are losing and dying off. In a last ditch effort Jean unleashes all power winning the war but resetting the universe in the process.Jean feels that everything that's happened goes back to her merging with the Phoenix force back in the day.

I know that sounds like a huge alternate reality thing but I don't know.

I actually thought the Xmen and mutants leaving earth was an interesting concept so as far as a new direction for the franchise, I thought there were stories that could be told there.

I'm all for a change in what we've been getting recently but I'd have to really think about how to do it seamlessly. I haven't read the DC Rebirth thing yet...is that sort of the inspiration behind this thread?

Yeah, but I think it actually sounds like somthing that could of happened. Like the story with Rusty Colins burning that prostitute in X-Factor #1. If there were actually millions of mutants in the world, you would think that things like that would happen more often.

That could be interesting, but I don't really see that concept lasting long in the world I was picturing. It could also be interesting using the O5 in a universe where they age in real time. Can have them start out as teenagers and see them grow. When it comes time to introduce new X-Men they could launch a second book and split up the teams, instead of throwing the O5 on the back burner.

I would like the whole hated and feared thing to be flipped. Make mutants into celebrities. Make mutants something to be desired, followed or even worshipped. It would be interesting to see how the X-Men could still be heroes in this kind of world.

Full on reboot in a universe whose only superhumans are mutants. Similar to the New Universe, this would be a grittier version of the Marvel Universe. Would start with the O5 and the characters that are basically the quintessential lineup: Bobby, Hank, Jean, Scott, Warren, Ororo, Piotr, Lorna, and Alex. Add Wolverine later. The Hellfire Club would be very much present, with rival factions in each country, fighting amongst each other like the Vampires in The Masquerade. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants would outnumber the X-Men and drop the 'Evil' part of the name - one faction lead by Mystique, another by Magneto, and a few other offshoots. Mutants are desired, exalted, hated, feared, and figures of jealousy - some are close to gods, others seem like demons. Apocalypse would be very much in play, but other characters we know of as X-Men would start out making their own powerplays - Storm would be a despot over a part of Africa trying to consolidate her empire against the Shadow King and that could be the first storyline - the X-Men help her, consolidate a base in Africa, and go from there to establish bases in Europe and then Brazil. Eventually, each team has to make the choice to ally with their nation's government or be public enemies, and if so, how far do they take their orders. Also, very much play up the idea that humanity will eventually be replaced, but make the causes so obvious that most refuse to accept it - it's the radiation from the sun, outer space, and other sources, plus our lessening atmosphere, that are causing mutations. Secondary mutations would not exist as such - some mutants would simply be born with superhuman powers while normal humans could start developing mutant genes after enough exposure - basically, every "baseline human" is a latent mutant. In this universe, the X-Men are just one of many future leaders and groups in the world, and have no real moral high ground because there would be groups that are legitimately more idealistic and smarter than them.

Well, in the case of where something like the Avengers might interact with the X-Men, you could just have mutants that work for the government...like Freedom Force or some iterations of X-Factor. I mean, there is several existing mutants or X-Men characters that are essentially just mutant versions of other hero type characters....like there is several characters that worn suits to mimic Captain America like Guardian and Tygerstrike, or whatever that guys name was from Cables past, or there is Box, who was basically Iron Man, or even Wendingo or Sasquatch, who could stand in for Hulk. You would probably just be better off as having Alpha Flight be stand ins for the Avengers rather than a nationalist Canadian team.

Nah, I just decided to do this for fun and to discuss something other than how much people hate the Fox movies. There was a thread about Rogue recently and I was surprised to see that a lot of people have outgrown her famous, Ms. Marvel power set version and would like to see her just with her absorbing powers, and then I often hear people say that they would just have introduced Psylocke as an original Asian assassin character instead of the body swapping and I was just generally interested to see how people would rework this in the context of a reboot now that people have all this retrospect with the X-Men comics, cartoons and films.

True. I remember there was a lot of grief in the X-Men comics in the 80s, a lot of the New Mutants were indirectly responsible for an innocents death in some way . I have always been more into the super heroics and character drama of the X-Men personally than I have been of the real societal impact and issues and stuff of that nature, but, I'll bite.

I always found it funny Rusty burned a prostitute, as if it was Bob Laytons way of saying "don't worry, this character is totally redeemable. He just killed a hooker, no real people"

Well, the X-Men did age in the 60s and 70s. When he X-Men start out in the 60s most of them are supposed to be 16 and by 1980 Cyclops implies several times that he is in his late 20s or 30s.....so, maybe not exactly real time, they did age. And while I guess you could say that the rest of the o5 got slighted when the new X-Men showed up, it actually worked out--Beast was a genius and had already left the team, Polaris and Havok were never really into being super heroes and just wanted a normal life, Iceman and Angel wanted careers other than fighting evil mutants. One idea that is always mentioned about Xaviers school is that it is actually a school that educates people so that they can reenter the world as people with goals and career prospects and not just be X-Men for the rest of their lives, and I have always liked the idea that characters like Iceman decided that's what was best.

@phoenixofthetides: I could definitely go for this type of reboot

@phoenixofthetides: What about those characters who are the way they are because of a secondary mutation (emma frost/beast)?

Reboot it and start the series off with the team of Cyclops, Nighcrawler, Angel, Iceman, Collosus, Beast, and Storm. All of the characters are around 19 or 20 and were enrolled a few years ago. Start the first issue off with Jean coming to the school like the first issue of the OG X-Men. Do not start off with shipping any of the characters and show certain characters relationships develop as the series goes like a TV series. I think the series should develope like a well written tv series like breaking bad or game of thrones and shouldn't be a villain of the week (or issue for this case). The series should have well developed story arcs that all connect and play into a bigger story. These x-men have been around for a few years so they already have fought Magneto their fair share of times. I can't really think of a better way to update magnetos origin other than he was born in the Soviet Union in the 1950s and his parents were captured and put into a gulag when he was very young. Magneto is even more of a sympathetic character in this universe because he doesn't try to start global catastrophe or kill all humans, but just is too violent and brutal in his ways. At this point he is considered an anti-hero like he is in the comics rn. I would probably change storms powers just a little bit because it's always kinda bothered me that she's more of a goddess than a mutant but the basic principles of her powers are still there. Cyclops is a lot like the X-Men apocalypse Scott where's he is less of a douche and more likeable. He is not overly serious, but is still a good leader when it comes to battles. If this is the leader of the x-men, he should be more likeable than he is in the comics, and you should want to follow and support his decisions when reading. The first story arc should be moderately small, I'm thinking sentinels hunting down mutants. Along the first arc they run into wolverine. Wolverine and Magneto are brought along to help them. Wolverine doesn't innetially join the team, but only helps out because Xavier promises that he would help him regain past memories (like the films) the costumes should be a mix between classic costumes and practicality, they should look like superhero costumes but should have zippers and look like it could be taken on and off (I've always been bothered by superhero costumes in movies that obviously took 4 hours to put on in a chair. ) Almost like the movie costumes but with color.

I would also get rid of the boarding school being a front for a paramilitary organisation.

Make the X-Mansion just a boarding school for mutant kids to learn how to live safely with their powers. The kids graduate and then leave to live in the wider community, with only a few of them staying on as teachers.

Make the X-Men a special police squad that focuses on mutants, with many of them being alumni of Xavier's. There would be a special unit on the squad that specifically deals with telepathic crime.

@cattlebattle: Sentinels are back and the new Master Mold puts out a hit on the most powerful mutants, with Magneto first on the list. Magneto is ready for them, alone floating high above the center of the North Pole, but when they zero in on him and open fire, thousands upon thousands of them launching grenades, photons and sonic lances, he merely maintains his force bubble straining his defensive capabilities beyond their limits. He slowly, subtly syphons energy from them, the crackling power of 50,000 sentinels boiling inside him and, for an instant, the lights go dim in every Sentinel's eyes as Magneto burgeons like a newborn star and releases a fantastic electromagnetic tsunami, cascading over the entire planet. Magneto devised this plan, having been informed by the technopathic Hope Summers, who picked up cyber chatter from government channels about the attack. He accomplishes his mission, sending enough energy to activate something long forgotten...and in death releases a pathogen that alters the Terrigen Mists to erase the X-Gene from any humans it touches. The Sentinels reboot and believe the pulse was meant to destroy them, taking Magneto's lifeless body to Master Mold.

Magneto knew a secret that could save all mutants. The Four Celestial Pillars maintaining the environment of The Savage Land are ALSO rockets and the entire land mass was designed by the cosmic ancients to depart from Earth.

Storm, Cable, Beast, Havok, Forge and Emma Frost organize the X-Teams to evacuate all mutants from their homes and assemble in the Savage Land via teleportation portals. Magneto's sacrifice initiates the pillars and the Savage Land leaves Earth's atmosphere with every mutant man, woman and child. Joining the voyage: Juggernaut, Sauron, Ka-Zar and the tribes of the Savage Land, and Namora followed by a faction of mutant Atlanteans seeking their destiny in the stars with their mutant brothers and sisters. The Savage Ship eventually rendezvous with Lilandra and her Imperial Guard and they develop a way to utilize the powers of this new society to pull in asteroids and space debris to build and terraform a new planet. (i.e. Iceman draws in water from icy asteroids to create rivers and oceans)

...but the only ones who know about the X-Gene erasing pathogen on Earth are Storm, Cable, Beast, Havok, Forge and Emma...and Hope. It was against everything they believed in, but they didn't want new mutants to suffer on Earth while they built a new world they would never see.

X-Force: Storm leads the terraforming effort with a powerful team of elementals and advisors including her second in command, Sabra, Polaris, Iceman, Sunfire, Rictor, Ka-Zar and Zabu.

X-Factor: This team is created for scientific research and investigation. Jamie Madrox leads Beast, Kitty Pryde, Dani Moonstar, Vance Astrovik and Cecelia Reyes to maintain a sense of law and order and to educate the populace on the fragile propelled environment they find themselves in.

X-Men: Military. Havok is the commander of a mutant army with Psylocke, Bishop, Domino, Frenzy and Northstar at the forefront.

Emma would leave to build her own paradise called Hellfire Island with her new boo, Archangel (after she repairs his fractured mind to her liking) and they erect an arena for Gladiatorial Games!

Cable would have a solo title where he settles in with the Fall People, falls in love and protects them from threats both jungle and space.

@phoenixofthetides: What about those characters who are the way they are because of a secondary mutation (emma frost/beast)?

Those secondary mutations would be retconned. Those secondary mutations annoy me on a storytelling level. Mainly because these characters have very solid concepts that fuse their powersets and personalities. Adding these secondary mutations have done nothing to progress the characters. If anything, the reverse has happened. I would argue that those secondary mutations are actually a sign that certain writers are bored with the characters, can't write them effectively, or just want to make them look closer to their conception of what the character could be. Emma's diamond skin, for example, had more to do with Morrison wanting her to look the image of a rich, diamond-studded seductress, and he as a writer probably didn't have any real motivation beyond that. Beast's appearance has always irked me because it seemed particularly lazy - I really liked the original design: he seemed like an evolutionary throwback, yet his intellect showed something about how intelligent our ancestors were - giving him a more beast-like appearance never really worked for me because it took a character design that to me worked quite well and dumbed it down to just make him look like his codename. I have absolutely no problem throwing away those secondary mutations.

This actually sounds really awesome!

@phoenixofthetides: point taken.

Okay, so for my reboot idea:

Note: this reboot would take place after THIS (btw any comments or criticisms for that post are appreciated. it's possibly my most inspired work)

After the war against Apocalypse, the world rejoices at the ones that risk their lives to save them, the X-Men. After burying their fallen and healing their wounds, Iceman wastes no time grabbing students (even Quire) to travel the world and help with relief efforts alongside Earth's heroes. Most of the X-veterans are against showing their faces so soon, but Iceman makes it clear this is EXACTLY what Xavier trained them for. His work does not go unnoticed by Miriam Sharpe, presidential candidate, and he gets a unanimous vote for Secretary of Mutant Relations. Together they push the Monroe Act, which would grant voting rights to all mutant citizens.

Humans begin being more accepting of mutants, especially after the whole world watched one give her life to save the world leaders. Their still wary, but Iceman's goodwill and Triage's healing mission starts building the bridge of unity between the two people.

Cyclops decides to surrender to the authorities, as it is too soon for him to come back after what he has done. But he makes it clear that he'll still fight for mutants and help however he can. Because his help against Apocalypse, the powers that be decided that he would be put on special work release: helping Steve Rogers build a new Unity Division.

Magik and other magicians bring the Xavier school back to the regular world since the M-Pox now had a cure. New mutant kids start enrolling, as well as a few humans and inhumans. As part of Storm's will, Old Man Logan begins teaching world history while Beast takes Storm's place as headmaster. Veteran X-Men begin take teaching positions and begin calling in guest speakers.... except Victor Von Doom. He just showed up and start teaching magic!

Havok, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Hope Summers grab mutants who can fight and puts together their own team of X-Men. They know that there are those that would still exploit/harm mutants. They want to keep the peace the so many died for.

X-Factor begins helping the police catch wanted criminals and solve unsolved mysteries (that series would have a Noir feel). There would be run ins with other street level characters and the Hand.

The Hellfire Club comes under new management: Madelyne Pryor, Cyclops's ex-wife. And she has big plans for the Xavier school.

Apocalypse and the bulk of his have left Earth to wage war on the Celestials. Archangel stays on Earth to lead the Akkaba in his absence.

X-Force, led by Psylocke, begin working with SHIELD to fight global threats (HYDRA mostly). She and Maria Hill don't like each other. At all.

Magneto, back at full power, has gone missing.

And...

The return of Blink (AOA) and the Exiles!

@masterofevil: Hmmm, interesting premise. I appreciate that you took efforts to scale back your reboot to maintain some sort of continuity, even if I am not a fan of some of the things that you are keeping TBQH ;). I'm just not sure Doctor Doom fits in with the X-Men. Sure, he has done some good deeds for the team, like saving Kitty way back, but not really sure the X-Men would welcome him since he'd most likely be plotting to take over the school and then the world as always. It's nice to see Bobby get more of the spotlight - the drama queens tend to hog it. Also, still not really sure what Scott ever did to justify his treatment.

@phoenixofthetides: Well needs to keep the continuity in these storylines. Marvel doesn't!

btw, Doom, who's a good guy now, would not be welcomed or invited. It'd be like the current Iron-man run where he shows up uninvited and helps out despite what literally everyone thinks of him. It would be a more comedic thing especially since he'd teleport the veteran X-men half way around the world if they tried making him leave. The students would find him to be insanely awesome.

Iceman being the mutant representative was he's the only original x-man to not screw with the safety of the planet or the space-time continuum. Plus it would make some use of him being protestant, gay (or bi I guess?), and a mutant. Plus the obvious choices would be unable to do the job for various reasons.

And no one knows what the hell Scott did. I'm just saying he's making up for it.

Morrison really set the X-Men up for some interesting stories before Marvel nuked the franchise. I'd rather start where he began than go back to the O5 concept. Here's a very underwhelming outline of what I'd like to see:

- The X-Men exist in their own universe.

- Mutants are an actual minority group with their own country, government, culture, sub-cultures, and a large, stable population in the millions -- not just a small group of genetic anomalies.

- The actual X-Men characters operate as an elite branch of the mutant military -- soldiers, politicians, scientists, diplomats etc. -- or maybe they are scattered, living their lives before some event/tragedy forces them together.

- More focus on complex, topical and allegorical storytelling akin to Claremont but not as heavy-handed or blatantly liberal. More science fiction, less fruity pebble spandex superheroics.

@sprior93: I would love to read this book. An X-Men book for adults.

I'd be fine with just having one book like this and a separate line of spandex clad heroes to sell toys to the kids.

Wow, when I created this thread I thought people would use it to try to organize the X-Men mythos and make it more self contained. like if you were going to place the franchise in its own universe, how would you explain Apocalypse seeing as he has a background tied to the Celestials and the Eternals and characters unimportant to the X-Men lore.....you would have to have him find technology from beings more relevant to the X-Men, like Shi'ar for example.

Or try to connect the mystical elements of the franchise by having Limbo and Cytoraak connected in a way that isn't too different from how Lovecraft had Cthuhlu and Hastur, the Unspeakable One as dueling mystical entities.

Some people went super realistic, gritty and utilitarian with it. Sounds depressing.

@cattlebattle:

Simonson's X-Factor, Age of Apocalypse, Blood of Apocalypse, Rise of Apocalypse, The Twelve -- all garbage comics(IMO). Remender's X-Force had the best Apocalypse stories and he wasn't even in them. Apocalypse is awful. Personally, I would tone him waaaaay down into a mysterious cult leader/mutant terrorist who sows seeds of discord and chaos. And he wouldn't look like a giant blue dildo.

I'd also do away with the Celestials and Eternals. I just don't care about them and their affiliation with the X-Men has only done harm to the property. The Shi'ar and Limbo could still be interesting, though. X-Files-esque alien conspiracies and demonic covens.

I agree about Apocalypse.....although, I am just going to quote myself about the original Simonson version of Apocalypse from the 80s that I wrote about a couple of days ago...

Everything about Simonson's original idea for Apocalypse was better anyways. The whole Ancient Egyptian demi god who has every mutant power and rules the future is so marred with cliches....it's hard to take seriously sometimes. The original idea that he was some neanderthal that mastered Celestial technology was much better. I remember an issue of X-Factor where he fights the High Evolutionary--they get hurled into space and Apocalypse uses his molecular control (the only power he had back then) to give himself a mask and rocket boots and the proceeds to goad and pummel the High Evolutionary, who was a pretty powerful character in his own right. They try to make Apocalypse out to be the "Darkseid" of the X-Men universe now, it's lame and all he really does is threaten people, sit on thrones, has pretentious monologues, and gets defeated rather easily. Back in the 80s, he was just some smug asshole that was really difficult to defeat and had a radical view on the evolutionary course of the human race. So much more interesting.

So yeah, I would also tone him down. Him looking like a dildo is kind of unavoidable though.

@cattlebattle: He looked cool in the DoFP post-credits scene. Normal sized body, dark robes, pale skin, some freakish facial features(blue lips, face tattoos etc.)

Less is more.

@cattlebattle: I agree about getting rid of the Celestials. They honestly fill a role that could be done by other, more relevant cosmic characters.

The Eternals got the same treatment the x-men are getting now. I'd do what marvel did to Alpha Flight and tie them to a popular character (more than likely Hercules cuz he's living with one)

@cattlebattle: I think it illustrates how people on this forum are upset with the current status of X-comics.

More grounded sci-fi X-Men does not mean depressing.

@cattlebattle: @tristanheron: Plus it's how old plots are being rehashed. At least our stuff is genuinely different from what has been done before. Not everyone may pick our stories up, as it may not be their thing, which is fine, but it's better than what's happening in marvel now

@cattlebattle: Okay. I think I get a little more of what you mean now I guess as far as reorganizing.

For someone like Apocalypse I think I would make him a long lived maybe immortal mutant if you will. I like the idea of maybe the Elder God's like Set or Chthon, maybe giving certain mutants power or having them be their avatars on earth. But even if we didn't go the magical mystical route, I think him having immortality,a healing factor and maybe astral form as well as maybe being able to alter his molecules (i.e. size) and either being able to absorb other powers in a similar manner to Rogue or Hope or just having telepathy and telekinesis would make him a true powerhouse and maybe somewhat overpowered but a true threat coupled with the idea of the survival of the fittest attitude and cult leader persona. I guess for his weaknesses I'd maybe have him only being able to exist in physical form for a while without requiring human host to sustain himself and burning their life energy out in a similar way to Proteus or Selene.

The X-men first run in with him would have been when we got the Krakoa stuff. Though I loved the All New All Different X-men we got from that story and thought it was interesting, I've never liked the idea of Krakoa. I would have Xavier detecting a strong mutant presence similarly to the original story but Krakoa wouldn't be a living island but rather completely controlled by Apocalypses telekinesis or by telekinetic cult followers of his or by a mutant like Blackheath who follows Apocalypse.

In this universe it would be little to no magic. So maybe Illyana would be the only mutant able to do magic being like an avatar for one of the Elder God's. I guess having her kidnapped at young age and maybe experimented on by the Soviets and being tortured and might work although I will acknowledge that it might be a poor substitute for her being kidnapped by a demon. I guess I could go really dark with what sometimes happens to kidnapped girls from around the world perhaps having her be aged by some biology altering mutant and end up under the control of some sick mutant illusionist or some cult leader that imprisons kidnapped girls. If I cut it out completely I guess I would just give her the power to teleport and ability to contol molecules and create demonic or monstrous energy or astral forms representing her scary and brutal childhood.

I hope this is somewhat closer to what you wanted. I'll stop here for now but I have more like retelling Decimation and Schism and AVX. Even altering the Phoenix and changing it from just being a force

I feel like a normal sized guy with just some marks on his face would be kind of boring. Sometimes less id actually less. It would remind me of titular character from "The Mummy" or something. I have no issue with Apocalypse being a larger, menacing being and still looking somewhat alien or technological....like these concepts artist Huy Dinh did. I would however just have his only power be the molecular control and he just has an obsession with evolution. Not some all powerful god-mutant.

Eh, I lived through super hero comics in the early 2000's with stuff from Millar, comics like "The Authority", and the Ultimate Marvel Universe. When people try to make super hero stuff grounded and edgy it never works out that well. I am not saying you can't tell interesting stories with social commentary on real issues or more realistic stories....but there has to be a balance.

@cattlebattle: When I say more grounded sci-fi I don't mean darker and edgier (like Millar), I mean more like hard science fiction e.g. Ex Machina and The Martian.

@hawk2916: No joke, if you throw out the astral projection but give him super strength, your Apocalypse sounds like the Ultimate version (the most dangerous version IMO) in regards to powers.

But I agree he should keep his Darwinian personality and his immortality backstory. Ultimate didn't have that.

And he should get his Secret Wars costume. Just sayin'

@masterofevil: Pretty interesting. I'm fine with him being a powerhouse character for sure

@hawk2916: well he's marketed as a powerhouse or else what is the point of him at all? But yeah, I would do what Marvel did twice already: merge multiverse counterparts together (AOA/Ultimate/616). With his molecular control, it should be possible, but i'd give him Thor/Hulk enemy power levels and a few weaknesses so he's not impossible.

@masterofevil: yeah

Create a new planet for mutants and their allies. The Phoenix could do that, right? Or it'd be cool to follow mutants as they track down a semi-habitable M-class planet and use their powers to terraform and create their new home in their own image. Think about what mutants like Storm, Magneto, Polaris, Iceman, Havok, Rictor, Magma, Sunfire, Dust and Avalanche could accomplish working together.

For me it goes like this:

Apocalypse is the 1st mutant being a rogue sect of Inhuman born in Ancient Egypt as a slave. He manages to break free of his slavery and begins a 1 man crusade, perceiving himself as the living incarnation of nature's 1 rule: "If you're strong you live. If you're weak you die." His most famous exploit is destroying the kingdom of Rama Tut (Kang the Conqueror) before becoming an underground force in the shadows manipulating the evolution of mankind and amassing followers such as MR. SINISTER, MYSTIQUE and the MARAUDERS. By the late 1800's Apocalypse goes enters a hibernation state to recharge his energies and his followers scatter.

In the 1950's and 60's increased radiation levels from nuclear tests by both the US and Soviets cause a massive surge in the originally small and almost non-existent mutant population around the world. Countries like Canada, USSR and England immediately pass registration bills forcing the rising mutants into working with their governments forming ALPHA FLIGHT, WINTER GUARD and EXCALIBUR.

MAGNETO is still a survivor of Auschwitz and was freed by CAPTAIN AMERICA and the Invaders however his mutant powers also slow his aging. As such he spends most of his young adult life hunting down Nazi survivors before getting married and having a daughter (POLARIS) in the late 1960's. Tragically their mother is killed when HELLFIRE CLUB member JOHN SUBLIME organizes an angry mob to kill the dangerous mutants. In the end they kill Erik's wife and he goes ballistic, killing the mob and moving his daughter to America while he hunts down his wife's killer. This happens in the early 70's. Meanwhile WEAPON X is formed in Canada to give the country its own version of Captain America without regards to mutant rights.

Like the First Class movie, Erik and a young CHARLES XAVIER meet when the government has Charles searching for Sublime. Like First Class again the two work with the government until fear and mistrust of them drives them away and the two decide to take matters into their own hands. Though skeptical Erik is willing to follow Xavier's dream of peaceful co-existence between mutants and humans and the 2 assemble a team to protect humans from mutants and mutants from humans. As such they gather ANGEL (Warren), THUNDERBIRD (Neal Sharra), , MIMIC (Mattie Franklin), CHAMBER (Jonothon Starsmore) and SAGE (Tessa) providing tech support to form the X-MEN in the mid-1970s, operating as a secret band of rebels outside of the law.

In the mid-80's the team manages to fight and kill Sublime after he uses his own mutant powers to turn an entire small town into a zombie invasion. Around this time, Magneto takes custody of his children from a brief romantic partner (SCARLET WITCH and QUICKSILVER) and Xavier opens his massive mansion estate as the XAVIER INSTITUTE FOR GIFTED YOUNGSTERS, a boarding school for young mutants to learn to control their powers and get a proper K-12 education.

In the mid-90's Apocalypse wakes up and sees the turmoil the world has been plunged into by the rise of mutants and decides to test the strength of the new world by fighting its champions, the X-Men in Hell's Kitchen. It goes badly for the X-Men, Xavier gets his spine broke, Angel gets his wings torn off and Apocalypse uses his psychic abilities to mind rape Magneto... everyone else is killed. Broken and devastated the X-Men return home but they are sloppy in their return and 5 teenage students discover their school is the home base of the X-Men. They are CYCLOPS, STORM, BEAST, JEAN GREY (Marvel Girl) and SUNFIRE. The 5 teens manage to take over the broken team as the FIRST CLASS while adding 6th ranger PSYLOCKE to the team.

Throughout the 90's Xavier expands the X-Men ranks, Magneto (broken and disillusioned) leaves the manor to reevaluate his life and Angel is manipulated by Mr. Sinister into becoming Apocalypse's newest servant, ARCHANGEL. At this time WOLVERINE and WADE WINSTON WILSON join Weapon X as members of TEAM X alongside WRAITH, BLOB, OMEGA RED, SABRETOOTH and MARROW under JOHN STRYKER but Logan is demoted after he causes a mission to obtain VIBRANIUM to go south and Team X is disbanded. Logan is then put on "clean-up duty" until he again messes up and he is ambushed by PROFESSOR THORNTON and Sabretooth who drug him, beat him unconscious and then let Weapon X give him the ADAMANTIUM dip. Logan is then mind wiped into being a living weapon but breaks the programming when he overhears his controllers calling him an "animal". Wolvie breaks free, kills everyone in the facility and with the aid of Wade and WINTER SOLDIER escapes but is later forced into Alpha Flight. Wade is then hunted by Weapon X and they manage to snag one WADE TYRONE WILSON (later transformed into T-RAY). Wade Wilson later turns himself in in hopes that Weapon X will cure his cancer and they transform him into DEADPOOL and he escapes.

In the early 2000's the X-Men rise to prominence and with mutants becoming a major problem for the US, Senator ROBERT KELLY proposes PROJECT WIDEAWAKE (co-funded by the Hellfire Club) and the government approves when SHIELD (A UN controlled organization) refuses to get involved. Other anti-mutant senators propose various versions of the MUTANT REGISTRATION ACT and further draw the ire of Magneto and his rising group of followers; the ACOLYTES. In 2005, Wolverine is assigned to fight the rampaging HULK and instead the 2 trash a Weapon X facility getting Wolvie in trouble with the Canadian government (Hulk also beat him in the follow up rematch and escaped). Later Wolverine is assigned to investigate Project Wideawake and nearly causes an international incident when he kills most of the security staff, cuts off the arm of lead scientist BOLIVAR TRASK and destroys several prototypes (while losing all data he acquired on the project in the subsequent fights) increasing fear of mutants. Logan is later fired from Alpha Flight when he attacks another Weapon X facility and placed under house arrest.

In 2007, IRON MAN, DAREDEVIL, HAWKEYE and PUNISHER make their debuts and the X-Men add Wolverine to their ranks after Sabretooth attempts to assassinate him. In 2009 the FANTASTIC FOUR, SPIDER-MAN, the HEROES FOR HIRE, MS. MARVEL (Carol Danvers) and many other heroes arise and as JUBILEE joins the X-Men it appears that a Mutant Registration Act is going to pass and Magneto forms the BROTHERHOOD OF MUTANTS with Mystique as his 2nd in command. The X-Men have a massive brawl with the Brotherhood and Magneto's Acolytes and the X-Men stand victorious. Cyclops then publicly proclaims the X-Men's intentions and return home where Xavier splits the now 26 man team into 4 sub-groups: GOLD TEAM (lead by Cyclops guarding the USA), BLUE TEAM (lead by Storm operating globally), GREEN TEAM (lead by Sunfire to guard the mansion and it's 300 students), BLACK TEAM (a secret Black Ops group lead by Gold team member Wolverine) and the NEW MUTANT (co-lead by ICEMAN and X-23 as the next generation of X-Men should anything happen to the current). Scarlet Witch leaves the X-Mansion to find her own way in the world while Polaris stays on the Blue Team and Quicksilver joins the New Mutants. The X-Men later appear as 1 of the several heroes and teams to aid the AVENGERS (consisting of Captain America, Iron Man, THOR, BLACK WIDOW, Scarlet Witch and Hulk) in fighting LOKI's massive invasion.

From this point on, the X-Men go through many stories both old and new but the general tone of anti-mutant sentiment spreads throughout the entire Marvel Universe with Spider-Man, the Heroes for Hire, Hulk and the X-Men effectively sharing a PR status (the Avengers, FF and others are also affected and have but its not as focused on for them). The X-Men are also a part of the ULTIMATES, which exists as a sort of superhero government for the US superhuman populous (and as an excuse for often ludicrous, outlandish, insane team ups) with Captain America as the appointed leader and a senate of representatives with Storm and EMMA FROST usually representing the X-Men (Wolverine, Cyclops and Jean Grey serving as substitutes). Spider-Man is an honorary X-Man, the Fantastic Four are extremely close allies, the Avengers openly support the X-Men's actions and are willing to offer support (earning them ire) and Hulk and Deadpool... are still Hulk and Deadpool and are generally on lukewarm terms with everyone.

Following NICK FURY's SECRET WAR, the US government enacts ZERO TOLERANCE which hits the X-Men hardest but heroes all over are affected (the MUTANT RESPONSE DIVISION becomes a driving force across all the books attempting to arrest Spider-Man, Daredevil and other lower level heroes and harasses the FF, SHIELD looks to the SENTINELS to replace the Avengers and Mutants no longer have any rights etc.) and the Xavier is ultimately broken when the mutants in Genoshia (which is lead by Magneto) and the Morlocks are slaughtered, nearly triggering an all out war between Magneto and humanity as a whole, causing Cyclops to step up (the Avengers can help because they were kidnapped by the Kree at the time and the Fantastic Four were trapped in an alternate universe). Not long after CIVIL WAR occurs and more X-Men end up involved including Pro-Storm, Bishop, Gambit, Iceman and Psylocke and Anti-Phoenix, Wolverine, Cable, Colossus and Havok.

Post Civil War (and its immediate fallout that nearly cost the human race its free will) the X-Men are placed under control of Cyclops and Storm so Xavier can focus on his school just as Magneto brings Asteroid X into San Francisco Bay and declares it a sovereign nation for Mutants and a future version of Cyclops arrives to plague present Cyclops with the belief that Magneto was right and the future is bleak. Realizing the current mass fear of mutants, the X-Men reorganize their mission statement and under Cyclops's command and with the blessing of Xavier and an agreement from Storm, the Gold and Blue teams teleport to the White House and ask to work with the president to improve mutant relations with the American people, answering to the government but operating independently. At the same time Captain America and Storm form a new joint Avengers/X-Men team co-lead by Havok and Wasp to show solidarity between the two teams. The X-Men still battle to save a world that hates and fears them, but now they fight to bring the fear of mutant to an end... with Apocalypse silently waiting in the background to enact a master plan to determine whether humans, mutants, or the enhanced deserve to inherit the world. (Though Apocalypse is treated more as an Earth bound MCU Thanos than as just an X-Men villain... he's even ultimately defeated by Mr. Fantastic.)

Also running along side this is X-Men 2099 where the adult X-23 now Wolverine leads what may be the last group of mutants on Earth in hopes of finding a safe haven in a world that has forgotten what it means to be a hero, controlled by Kang the Conqueror and run by mega corporations who only follow 1 rule: superhumans must die!

@allnewoverseer: how does Mr. fantastic beat apocalypse? Does Thor have a solo role? Does Magneto stay a villain? Where is Doom in all this????

Good story btw. I'd read this.

@allnewoverseer: Good stuff. I actually started this thread with hopes people would do stuff like this. One thing that always impressed me about Claremonts era was incorporating the villains as a part of the story. There was lots of characters plotting behind the scenes a lot of the time and we never got to see what the end game was for a lot of them because of editorial interference or other writes playing with characters. I was hoping someone would pitch a reboot idea where the villains plans play out more other then them just being the bad guys.

In the 80s we never really got to see Mystique's endgame was by working with the government....other then getting the rest of her Brotherhood pardoned, and we never got to see why Spiral was working with the Brotherhood other than tracking Longshot, so in a rebooted concept you could have all these different villains playing sides against each other for an ultimate outcome that may or may not have to do with the X-Men. Another interesting plot that died to editorial was Sebastian Shaw wanting the X-Men and the Hellfire Club to unite...I would like to see someone utilize that in a reboot to tell a larger story.

I also like the idea of the X-Men being put in and aging and evolving in real time. The series "Young Justice" used to apply this to their characters and it made the show more interesting.

Though Apocalypse is treated more as an Earth bound MCU Thanos than as just an X-Men villain... he's even ultimately defeated by Mr. Fantastic.)

I never understand why people are so in love with this depiction. Thanos is a pretty boring character that is mostly treated like the end boss of a video game. Apocalypse could be so much more interesting if he was another villain moving chess pieces against the likes of Mr Sinister, The Hellfire Club, The Shadow King and so on.....Not just some uber powerful demi god that has all the super powers.

@cattlebattle: it's cuz Apocalypse is constantly portrayed as that by other characters. No matter how bad his showings are, everyone makes him out to be the big bad of the planet despite none of the other villains even mentioning him as a threat. And The Twelve was kind of the only time he went "chess piece" on anyone other than his increasingly weird horsemen.

@cattlebattle: I like the idea of Apocalypse being the head of a mutant cult and his only real power is manipulating people into thinking his goals are their goals. All of the other powers can just be rumours perpetuated by his followers.

@tristanheron: didn't Mesmero do that? And seriously he would need his others powers when someone immune to manipulation shows up

@masterofevil: Yeah, it is a bit like Mesmero, but with the mutant cult twist.

He wouldn't need the other powers if he had an army of followers that would always protect him.