Given a choice, what would you get rid of/retcon?

So there's discussion all the time about which stories or books are relevant, which are interesting or not, etc. Browsing these forums I have to say personally I've seen quite a few good and interesting ideas as far as teams and character placement, plots and altered stories etc. Also there's always ongoing discussion and even debate about which books and storylines are most important, which are the best starting or jumping on points, which ones were poorly executed, which led to better or worse developments and which we can do without.

So with that in mind just imagine that you are in charge of everything Xmen... what stories or parts of the Xmen mythos and history would you do away with/get rid of or retcon/rewrite? Which stories do you see as ridiculous, needlessly convoluted, or just bad that you would be glad to get rid of?

For starters I'd be glad to get rid of:

The whole Jean grey/Phoenix resurrection thing- in fact Im not really a fan of the cosmic entity Phoenix thing, though the original story was one of the best. Jean should have stayed dead.

Xorn/Xorneto- Horrible

Cassandra Nova- Still dont really know what the hell a mummadrai is. Xavier having a sister would have been cool but not this way.

M-day/House of M- Scarlet Witch being uber powerful and the whole magic thing

Wolverine's origin story- I think something was lost when everything was exposed and its still cloudy in my opinion.

Psylocke/Revanche body swapping- The story is interesting but the way it was done

Schism- Just poorly written and not enough time to discuss all the problems here.

AVX- It was all flash and no substance really. I thought it would have been better as the main catalyst for the Civil War event.

BOTA- Just overall bad.

Bendis and everything associated

The whole Apocalypse/Stryfe/Cable/ Summers connection is pointlessly complicated and revolves around what I think are some of the most boring characters. But, it has become a fundamental necessity for X-Men lore these days, unfortunately.

I honestly think you could probably get rid of a good 60% of X-Men related material from the last 20 or so years and nobody would really mind.

Oh, sooo many things. I'm not sure where to begin...

Might actually make a meaningful post here later.

Everything that isn't Bendis.

Jmarshmallow

Well I disagree with the Jean should stay dead thing because she's one of my favorite characters.....bbut i think I'd recon the Phoenix so it was more like the Void in its connection to Jean that way the resurrection would be smoother and she could just claim to have no memories because of the separate personality.

Totally with the Wolverine keeping his origin secret or at least not constantly adding to his backstory. I'd be happier if he just decided he didn't need to know.

AvX- keep a little bit of the Avengers vs X-men stuff in the beginning but the story should be a story about mutants, Hope and the X-men dealing with the final results of Hopes Messiah trilogy. And tackling the dam question of whether she's there to save or destroy the world.

BotA- Just....ugh. Don't do this event and have the O5 focus on trying to fix the future for a year..then pull out all the stops for a time travel story that ends with them spinning out a new Alternate Time line called Age of the Atom or something.

The Xorneto thing- Do you know how much use we could've gotten out of him if he was just a recurring villain with a star in his head who betrayed the X-men and killed Jean?

Destruction of Genosha. ..just give us more about it before you kill it off. Idk what it even looked like.

Gambit as Death- Just pretend it didn't happen. That's what everyone else did.

Age of X....What did this accomplish? Don't do something if it's not going to matter when it's over

And finally Forge going crazy....it was unnecessary especially during a time when every X-Man but him was trying to survive in Utopia and they could've given us some actual development with him on the science team.

Fraction and everything associated.

If you want to know more about Genosha, read the first Genosha storyline (issues 235-238) and Generation X.

BotA didnt go anywhere and that was supposed to be the 50th anniversary,,ick. Also the will of CX should have been the 50th anni.

@ryagan: I really mean Genosha under Magneto. There's one book where we get a look at something other then an evil layer or an army and that was the Magneto book from when he first took it over and all we saw was the sky view as Scarlet Witch and Magneto flew overhead.

Idk about what was shown in Gen X, but I'd like to see the regular mutants living in the place that everyone talks about being a thriving mutant country, instead of the lynch mobs and rebels that we've mostly seen.

The X-men are my favorite superhero team so that makes reading them all the more frustrating. They have in place a great roster and villains but it seems like one small decision is always keeping them from making something memorable. When they get it right it is something truly magic.

If I had to retcon something from their past it would actually be most of their past. I want Professor X to be a great teacher, not one who tricks his students into thinking he is dead multiple times, but is limited in his old ways and eventually gives up ownership of the school to Cyclops. Loss is great for the X-men and even when my favorite character, Kitty Pride, was killed it was beautifully done and made me appreciate her character more. Then they ruined it by making her able to still communicate with the team through that communicator (I don't remember this too well so I could be completely off haha). The thing I want to see from the X-men is for them to commit to an idea. They have too many half-measures. Good ideas but then they become afraid of what it means for the future so they pull out of it and leave us with a half-baked story.

well it got the X-jammers back to earth (indirectly its true)... made Frenzy an X-Man... killed off Locus... re-powered Chamber... It's ultimate effects were minor... but there were quite a few of them.

@devilsgrin81: Yea but I like for even isolated stories to contribute something to the book that last a while. Even No More Humans leaves a big door open for a future story while Age of X was wrapped up pretty tightly in the end...the only lose thing was Frenzy and she's barely used in background nowadays.

that's true about Frenzy now... but she was a main character in Rogue's Legacy series that followed AoX.

I do agree was nicely concluded - wrapped in a bow and gifted to us essentially as a stand-alone book. Doesn't mean it wasn't good, or that is shouldn't have existed...

I thought Age of X was actually a good story though I agree that the effects were minimal. I think it being billed as a big event as opposed to just being a story arc in Xmen Legacy might have been a problem. I wish it would have ended with all the mutants on Utopia being repowered. At least that would have been a little more impactful.

I actually like @koays idea for the Phoenix and Jean Grey.

Another thing I think I'd get rid of is the magical and mystical elements to some characters and stories. I've always classified the Xmen more in the sci-fi genre and sometimes the magic stuff just doesn't fit and seems a cheap and lazy way out in doing stories.

I would make the black Flash and Wally West two different people.

This.

Just reading the title the first answer that was breaking out of my head was of course "Morrison", but given how much has changed since then and how many good/great stories Decimation gave me, I will be more specific.

Cassandra Nova and Genoshan Genocide - I really despise this story: 16 million mutants on a small island that were killed in seconds by two Sentinels, but everyone seems to be fine with that logic? That story was written to be a pretentious hype, "look I killed more mutants than anybody else! woohoo!". Pathetic. And CN was the sh!ttiest type of a one-dimensional villain-sue, "you strangled me when you weren't even born, now I will take your dream away from you!!!" wtf....

Wanda as MacGuffin to trigger the Decimation - I think it could've been better if Decimation was a mystery to be resolved instead of that tasteless "chaoswave" hype that was eventually retconned anyway (with this f@cking Doom+Wanda involvement!). The idea was good, and even the way it was written I will admit was touching, sick, very emotional and intense (the final showdown in HOM), but thinking that just one person being able to arrange something like this, takes away the possibility of multiple dimensions that could've been added and represented from different angles to the idea of "no more mutants" besides only self-loathing under MacGuffin powers.

Eve of Destruction - honestly, this story doesn't matter after E is for extinction, I would retcon it anyway because of how horrible it was. Magneto declaring war on humanity, remorselessly willing to kill mutants on his way, the idea for a mini event that was so dull and unimaginative I felt a slap of Silver Age grotesque on my nape of the neck. I guess they plotted the legitimization for destruction of Genosha already there.

Jason Aaron - I won't exaggerate, to retcon the idea that he has touched anything that has an "X" in its title, is that so much to ask?

From the top of my head.

Everything starting from Schism to today, except ome good stories like Age of X, Uncanny X-Force and Uncanny X-Men by Gillen.

And the Scarlet Witch

What really need to be retconed... no, erased is whole X-termination, that pointless slaughter and waste of characters.
And Genoshan Genocide, perhaps.

@adamtrmm: I have to agree with you on most of that. Especially Morrison and Aaron. It would be great if they never touched an X-book.

Believe it or not something else I would retcon or flat out change is not only the origin story of Wolverine as I mentioned before but a few others. This is why I was so excited when I first heard about the Ultimate Universe. I like simplistic not the over-reaching convoluted mess.

With that said, on big one I'd do is:

Cyclops' and Havok origin story would be retconned, instead of the whole alien attack thing out of nowhere, it would be something a little more simple like that his parents were CIA or Freedom Fighters of some sort, hell maybe even SHIELD and were discovered operating in some dictator-type country and in trying to escape their plane was shot down. Of course Corsair would still be thought dead but captured and you could still have the third summers brother with this line though it would change his motivations to being more of a dictator-type mutant ( a mutant supremacist Red Skull type character).

I'd make Juggernaut a mutant instead of having him find some magic amulet.

I'd retcon Schism, AvX, this whole nonsense about Wolverine pretending to give a crap about kids, Rogue and Magneto, Psylocke's resurrection, Curse of the Mutants (mostly the Jubilee vampire bit), and pretty much anything that's embarrassing to have to explain to people.

@squares: lol. Love that post.

I forgot about Rogue and Magneto but yeah that would have to go. and the Vamp thing was just a pathetic attempt to cash in on the Twilight craze. as Ive said before Xmen should be innovators and trendsetters not bandwagon jumping followers.

Just curious what would you change about psylocke's resurrection? Is it the body switch thing?

What?

Wolverine's always cared about children. It's why he took Jubilee and Kitty Pryde under his wing in a big brother/father like. It's why when during Civil War when Nitro blew up a school bus full of children he was extremely pissed and made his first mission as an Avenger an extensive manhunt of Nitro. A recent Wolverine story from Savage Wolverine in the 1930's had him being willing to come out of his loner state while he was an alcohol bootlegger just to protect a family full of children. It's why he was willing to work with Black Panther to save an infant princess of an African society in Wolverine vol 3 #41.

@hawk2916: Just her being alive right now in general. The body switch thing was stupid, but then again, there's so many stupid things in X-men history that if I were to say we should retcon all of them the X-men wouldn't be the X-men anymore.

Yeah, that's fantastic, but since when was he all 'we need to make sure these kids don't have to see combat'? IIRC wasn't he always dragging Kitty Pryde and Jubilee into combat situations?

Yeah, when you get specific like that I can agree the whole Schism narrative on Wolverine's views with children was forced.

@wolverine08: I'd have agreed with someone taking the 'think of the children' stance if it was someone like, I don't know, Kitty Pryde, or Beast, but Wolverine just didn't fit well into that role.

@squares: @wolverine08: Yeah especially given that Wolverine was ok with killing Hope too.

Hope Summers-She hasn't done much of anything and just isn't interesting at all

AvX-It made no sense to begin with. Why would Scott suddenly think the Phoenix is here to restart the mutant race and why would he think Hope would be the one it's coming for? Why would anyone even think Hope could control it when Rachel, someone who has actually controlled the Phoenix, is living on the island with them

Schism-Just messy and made no sense whatsoever

Pretty poor writing given Wolverine's history with children IMO.

Bendis. The person.

Leaving my hate away, maybe Schism and the Five Lights. Stupid concept.

And the O5 in the present.

@wolverine08: Oh i agree completely which is why i thought Schism was so bad as well. Wolverine has been written terribly for a while now. Im sure you'd agree with that. I mean he's one of my favorite Xmen but Im sure that never comes across on these forums because of my criticisms of his the way his character has been written. Its almost to the point where I want him out of the books altogether if they cant write him correctly. That said I dont want them to kill him but a coma would be nice lol. Death is so overrated in comics

Something else I've had trouble dealing with and thus eel that the Xmen would be better off without is the alternate reality characters. I say that knowing how much I love Rachel Grey and i loved the Days of Future Past story as well. But really this has always been hard to understand or explain. I could settle for Rachel being a lab creation by Sinister from the Grey and Summers families DNA, and ultimately rescued by the Xmen. I know that sounds a little bit like Cable but I'd make it just a little different and Cable could still come from Maddie or better yet be the kid of Havok and Polaris, or for a real twist make Cable be someone not related to the Summers family at all but rather a future Cannonball or Cannonball's grandson from the future. Bishop is a little different in this respect but all the alternate reality people like Dark Beast and Nate grey etc can go imo.

@hawk2916:

In the end, Morrison had the exact vision for mutants I have, it's just he hid it inside all sorts of grotesque, hidden parodies, over-progressive "brand new society" statements and snarky satires, that no one even acknowledges his run for what it was meant to be - the war of multiple subspecies of Earth. I can't deny how talented of a writer he is, but the arrogance overshadowed the good vision lol He wanted to change too much so unnaturally it felt out of continuity and failed. Finally, the unforgivable attempt to turn mutants into subhumans instead of posthumans that they are and always will be is one of the main reasons I reject this run.

Aaron recently wrote the best mythological comic book tale I've read on the pages of Thor: GOT. It is so awesome it contradicts everything he did to the X-comics, it's like it isn't even the same writer! I have no idea why so many talented writers start spreading crap the second the work in the X-office =|

Anyway, while I do agree that Summers parents have a sloppy story, I think Vulcan's background is one of the best in X-comics. Ripped from the dead body of his executed mother?! This is so intense I cannot sacrifice that. I hope when they resurrect him the one-dimension that represented him will be dilated and he'll turn into a tragic, vengeful, but three-demensional anti-villain instead of just vengeful arrogant mad kid.

The part with Juggernaut is actually pretty cool as it is, I think it's the lack of physically brickish Superman/Hulk-like characters, that mutants almost don't have, creates that vacuum. I think Warpath needs to take the mantle of mutant physical powerhouse, everything can be blamed on his own mind-walls and grounded personality that prevent him from using his full-potential.

@adamtrmm: I agree with you on Warpath. But like I said for me i'd prefer Juggernaut to just be a powerhouse unstoppable mutant not magic trinket holder. as for Aaron I cant even fathom him writing anything that is good. I agree with you on Morrison somewhat but his run was not good imo and is partly responsible for some of the mess we currently deal with. I love Vulcan as well and think his story could be salvaged in a similar way to how it ultimately turned out just altered a little in that aliens arent necessarily involved. As it is the origin is ok but maybe its me speaking from a place of being tired of the Shiar and other alien species being the backdrop of many Xmen stories

Brian Michael Bendis = "No more mutants"

I've thought something similar about Rachel when discussing potential reboots. Honestly though her story was pretty simple "kid from a future that will never come to be". Though it's when Cable and her role in his back story come in that it gets convoluted. Though i do like the idea of Cable being the kid of Polaris and Havok, since it would make them more important to the X-verse.

Personally i think it's a consequence of good story telling that eventually you have to look at how we got there. Jean adopts the son of her clone..cool, Cyclops gives up his son to save him...epic, Son comes back to change the future...awesome, Jean and Cyclops get the chance to help raise Cable so he won't grow up alone...respectable. They bid a tearful goodbye to the dying elderly Rachel where they accept her as their daughter...heartwarming. It's when people asks questions like "How did their daughter get to the future?" that explanations don't seem worth it to me since i have to explain everything from meeting Jeans clone and move forward.

• Retcon all the time-travel dross the X-Men have accumulated over the years, it's like they've seen something like 700 varieties and pretty much all of them are dystopian and paradoxical since most of their stories are meant to end with the timeline not existing at all.
• Retcon Morrison's run so it follows his version... and isn't mostly undone by whoever it was that followed him.
• Retcon Jim Lee to somewhere else... so we might not have to put up with his terrible designs over at DC now :D
• Retcon it so Scott and Alex got into a fight over the parachute... and Scott lost.

Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything except the stuff about Jean.

@hawk2916:

But like I said for me i'd prefer Juggernaut to just be a powerhouse unstoppable mutant not magic trinket holder.

I just really like that Cyttorak god/demon and the way Gillen developed everything with Magik and Colossus in the mix made it all so intense I very much like how it is especially now, and have another reason to miss Kieron :(

as for Aaron I cant even fathom him writing anything that is good.

The God Butcher arc was almost perfect, absolutely epic read. Some writers just aren't made for X-men I guess lol

I agree with you on Morrison somewhat but his run was not good imo and is partly responsible for some of the mess we currently deal with.

True, I always say this as well :)

I love Vulcan as well and think his story could be salvaged in a similar way to how it ultimately turned out just altered a little in that aliens arent necessarily involved. As it is the origin is ok but maybe its me speaking from a place of being tired of the Shiar and other alien species being the backdrop of many Xmen stories

Man I love Shi'ar! And I also really love that connection to the X-men they have, makes mutants less human outcasts and more like individual, important players of the wider Marvel Universe.

No one is death apart from Angel. Daken, X-23 should just be deleted.

Once Jean died, leave her dead.

Jubilee being a vampire, I just don't like it.

Rather they didn't try to introduce do many new young characters at once as they all seem to be forgotten after a while. One or two at a time so they can develope better and become essential characters then introduce the next one or two.

The whole X-Men franchise.

This is how I feel about that character. Cable should just be what Rob Liefield originally intended: a mercenary with connections all over the Marvel Universe. He should just be like Marvels "Jonah Hex". He could have adventures in time, alternate dimensions, have him show up in Asgard.....connecting him to the X-Men universe limits him and occasionally makes him seem like he struggles to be relevant.

That's a thing I actually have always disliked about the X-Men from 90s onward. They draft every character that shows up onto a super hero team. It would be infinitely better and convince fans to get more excited for stories if a character shows up to guest star in a story arc only once in a while. This is how characters like Cable, Gambit, Fantomex and Deadpool all got redundant. They were created as characters that would just show up on occasion or be villains or "grey area" characters, but they just wound up being "X-Man No. 136".

@adamtrmm: I'm with you on the Shiar somewhat. i just think like the Phoenix and time travel they are overused in the Xmen stories

Hellion being a jerk.

Rogue being confused over Gambit and Magneto.

Daken turning into a drug addict.

Elektra and Punisher. In every instance, not just the recent together.

Wolverine being scared to shave. GTFO. (plus the reason why he was scared to in the first place)

Schism

AvX

Xavier's destruction of character (and while you're at it, the creepy comment about being in love with a young teen Jean in the 60's)

Xorn. Plus, I'm not the biggest Morrison fan. Not his biggest critic either, but I don't think he was the saviour of the X-Men as some might make him out to be.

House of M

The 198. Seriously. I mean it.

I was going to get into deaths and whatever but considering how that is a temporary state of being when in comes to comics, I will leave out my anger at losing Echo and some others.

Edited to mention Carol and her rapist/son/lover stupidity. I don't like thinking about it, but I would put that story at the top of the "get rid of" pile.

@ms-lola: Great post. Lol especially about Carol.

@hawk2916: I still have a hard time believing it happened, haha. They must have been high/drunk/concussed.