Superman/Wonder Woman #13 discussion

Have you read the newest issue of SM/WW? What do you think of it? Let the rage/praise pour in!

Personally I think it was a piece of cr@p where WW was an impatient butch and Supes tried too hard to be the "nice farm boy with a kind heart". Not to mention that we have to watch WW being all "I've got this, bitches!" then got handled, then got up, then the cycle repeats. Meanwhile Superman just was overcome like a ragged doll in the background and all he got to say was "UGNN" and "NYAARGH"... It was so humiliating that it was hilarious.

I haven't read it yet...but I'll be back...

I echo what you said, I couldn't have said it better

This is silly.

1.) She wasn't a b!tch. She was learning how the world works. The cab scene was badly executed--no doubt--but the point was that Clark was being too indecisive.

2.) So, you guys want them to be powerhouses that no one can stop? I thought you guys would be happy that at least Clark got beat down with her and it wasn't him playing hero to her, but you guys just want her to breeze through fights.

I didn't say she was a bitch, I said she was a bUtch. For constrast's sake she and Clark were being way too dramatic. And that fight came out of nowhere, I have no idea why WW and Superman were shivering under the force of "nature". They were hit by a mysterious lighting but WW made no effort to block it with her bracelets. I don't think simple bad weather can make them look so bad. I'll wait for explanations in the next issue. It'd better not be a mere plot device for the introduction of the powerful WonderStar. (WonderStar? LOL)

My point is, this issue was hilarious but I am not sure if being hilarious was the intention of the writer ;)

4 CABS! Even I would get mad at that point.

Also, it seems as if though they got upgrades to their abilities

I enjoyed it other than Diana being hurt by a burst gas-line. That was crap. But I liked the characterization. This was very much a set up issue.

Thoughts on Wonderstar?

I heard it was horrible. So that is good news on my pocket.

He has got a funny name. Maybe he's WW and Supe's die hard fan, or you know, their son, from the future. And the reason he calls himself Wonderstar is because Superstar is too unsubtle ;)

I got minor complaints but overall solid issue. Again this is hard for Wonder Woman and Superman to be in relationship because it is clash between ideas and fans

Pretty much took the words out of my mouth. Also does wonderstar look like new Loki to anyone else? Just me? ok lol

This. Clark is indecisive and unsure of himself at times. In most Superman/Wonder Woman issues she's had to be the man in the relationship.

dont like how mahnke draw but man does his Atomic Skull and major disaster look cool

If I didn't already have such a distaste for these contrived "date scenes" between Superman and Wonder Woman, that cab scene took it to a new level.

Not a fan of Tomasi. Plot is a pointless rehash that doesn't move any part of the previous story forward, characterization a are WAY to generic and the pacing is clumsy. The art is so-so.

I find myself wishing for a SM/WW comic where they aren't forced into a contrived relationship ... Something more akin to the SM/BM book which simply has them working together. And I'm not a hater of the relationship, simply don't think the stories they've been telling around it are all that interesting.

ok just read it and it's not as bad as you make it seem. Superman has always been written inconsistently any way so this was no surprise he was acting like this. Look at how he was in supergirl (if you read it).

I don't know about you but 4 times he let people into a cab come on even i would be pissed.Heck for them date night can end at any time.

Not feeling wonderstar's design i must say though.

@toplel: your opinion is invalid here...for obvious reasons.

I always overact when it comes to new issues, LOL.

Superman looked really creepy in one panel. I don't like the way the faces looked, especially when either Superman or Wonder Woman were smiling.

4 cabs is lame. WW would have looked just as mousy if she'd been cool with Clark being a doormat.

Agreed

I enjoyed it.

This like Wonder Woman was meh.

It's because the alpha males compete for the ultimate trophy girlfriend so a batfan would not want Superman to have it and vice versa

@hastalavista: LOLOL well they say the first impression must be the best.

lol they are still full of this 5 years ago stupid thing even after so many issues.

What she said, kind of. You're biased because you want Wonder Woman to be with Batman. I don't consider Diana a trophy girlfriend for Clark, but she's right about everything else.

I just dont want Superman and Lois together, has nothing to do with Wonder Woman.

Even though the art was stunning, I found both Diana and Clark extremely out of character. Especially Diana. I understand she comes from a different background, grew up in a different society and maybe, just maybe, is still learning some things, but this Diana acted like a needy, spoiled brat. The whole story felt rushed and ridiculous at most points. I overall got the feeling they tried to make Diana sound as dumb as possible in an effort to make Clark seem cooler. I mean, they failed, but still. I got second-hand embarrassment.

@toplel: Yeah, because Lois Lane isn't just as iconic as WW, that's why Wonder Woman is a trophy for Superman.

Superman already has a trophy girlfriend(that's all Lois Lane is to me).

^ This

^ Somewhat true

@toplel: Yeah if 2 alpha males compete over Wonder Woman then what does that make Wonder Woman - the trophy

@toplel: I don't think Lois is "unworthy" of Superman's affection because she's an "ordinary woman." That's the most un-Superman thing anyone can suggest for the character of Superman. I don't like Lois because I think she's a tired troupe that needs to be done away with--the damsel in distress. I don't like Lois because too many writers write her as a tough, no none sense reporter who gets into people's face only to be smacked back down and have Superman rush in to save her.

You can't be a feminist icon who then relies on a super-man to save you when the sh*t hits the fan. They're better off making her a humorous character who is aware of her failings than the way they portray her now. She's annoying, not too weak.

Secondly, have you ever heard me make those claims? I like Superman and Wonder Woman together because they're my two favorites characters. Do I expect DC to permanently unify them? No. Do I want them to? Hell no. I'm just glad we can take a break from Lois Lane for a while while I enjoy Clark and Di working as a team.

Thirdly, are there fringe elements of the Superman fan base that want Superman to be with Wonder Woman as some power thing? Yes. Are they a majority of the Superman fan base? Hell no. The vast majority of Superman fans want him to be with Lois or, as I am a part of this group, expect him to be with Lois at the end of the day. You're looking at the extreme of the Superman fan base and gauging it as the whole. Your speculation on this part is way off.

Finally, I don't care if Superman is with Wonder Woman. Superman fans don't hold Wonder Woman as the vaunted women that Clark should be with. I like Diana, but Lois Lane is more iconic and more a feminist icon, in my opinion, than her. To me, Diana is not a trophy. To most Superman fans, Diana is not a trophy. If most Superman fans wanted a genetic super-baby, we have Maxima for that.

Maxima covers all the things you THINK Superman fans want for Diana, except Superman could actually be with her since she was created to give Superman super-babies.

Now, you say shipping is a cancer? I agree. I don't mind Superman and Wonder Woman because I like reading my two favorite characters in a book at the same time. Some Wonder Woman fans hate how Diana gets written, but I think they're acting like the Superman fans I don't get along with.

- Diana is supposed to be a warrior who is without weakness, but, at the same time, Diana has to be peaceful and reserved. She can't want to fight too much, but she can't be passive and let the fight come to her.

Diana is a warrior. She fights. That's what she does. Trying to make her into female Superman is boring. That's why she's my favorite character: Diana doesn't hold herself back like Clark. She speaks her mind, she fights and she isn't afraid to kill.

The true cancerous shipping is the idea of Batman and Wonder Woman. The fringe Superman fans want Superman with Diana for a baby, but they won't get that. Superman and Diana won't be a thing. The Batman fans want Batman with Wonder Woman as an actual mark of power. That relationship is a relationship of perception, not babies( actually a functional concept if you can have fun with it.)

Face it, Superman fans won't ever brag about how Superman got with Diana as a sign of how cool Superman is. Batman fans? Oh lord. This is a power fantasy to them. Batman needs to kick the most powerful man in the JL's @$$ and f*ck the most powerful woman.

How many time have I read Batman can beat the Justice League because they all have a specific weakness, them, when you bring up Diana, Batman fans just say how Batman seduces her? Way too much for my liking.

I think they don't actually realize how distastefully Wonder Woman's written in smww so they chalk it all up to envy which presupposes that Wonder Woman's the trophy girl in the middle of this rivalry between Batman and Superman.

Face it, Superman fans won't ever brag about how Superman got with Diana as a sign of how cool Superman is. Batman fans? Oh lord. This is a power fantasy to them. Batman needs to kick the most powerful man in the JL's @$$ and f*ck the most powerful woman.

How many time have I read Batman can beat the Justice League because they all have a specific weakness, them, when you bring up Diana, Batman fans just say how Batman seduces her? Way too much for my liking.

^^^^ This 100%

To be fair when is Wonder Woman not handle poorly? Everyone complains about every little thing about the character that it's really impossible to write Wonder Woman. The best writer who had a good grasp on it was Azzarello and yes Wonder Woman is being written poorly in sm/ww and is it due to Superman? No it's due to writer lack knowledge on Wonder Woman and how the see her (Or perhaps they try to over contrast)

Also you said "they chalk it all up to envy which presupposes that Wonder Woman's the trophy girl in the middle of this rivalry between Batman and Superman."Look around you, the main people that's against the pair have the word Batman in their name, Batman Avatar picture, and people that you can pretty much guess their favorite hero is Batman or they just prefer him over Supes.

Please don't let yourself be fool by the guys like Toplel who try to play the bias game, and try to pretend they really care about WW at heart.

Plz don't take this the wrong way but i f*&king love you lol. This is so true especially the batman part oh lord have mercy. Although i won't lie if they do have a kid i won't mind most of the kids they have are badass i wouldn't mind one in the main continuity, but alas that is just my wishful thinking.

The person that hates smww the most in this place and probably the whole world is me to be honest and I really couldn't care less about Batman, Wonder Woman is my character numero uno and as far as smww goes we're pretty much on the same page. I don't know if Toplel's got an ulterior motive to dislike the relationship but from what I've seen his criticism is usually legit and I almost always agree with it.

Well if two people dislike the same thing of course there'll be a mutual agreement. But my issues is I don't hate the pair... I just hate how the execution is handle. I also respect your reasoning for not liking it, but not Toplel for his reason is pure jealousy.

@killerinstinct4588: Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon will knock over the pieces, sh!t on the board and strut around like he won anyway.

Just saying no matter how good a point you make you'll only end up frustrated you had this conversation.