Anyone tired of what’s happening to women in Peter’s life?

Anyone else sick & tired of what’s happening to the women in Peter’s life?

I don't know if you are, because I certainly am, for within a span of just over a year, after Superior, 5 women in Peter's life have either turned their back on him saying they can't handle it, or have decided to go either the Anti-Hero route and because a villain, on a full fledged villain and with a possible 6th if a certain someone returns.

Break down

Mary Jane and Carlie Cooper turned their backs on him saying they can no longer handle his life as Spider-Man, with Carlie leaving New York all together to start a life somewhere else and Mary Jane even though still living in New York hasn't visited Peter once or maybe even Aunt May, and god knows what will be going on with her in those 8 months, her and that place-holder of a boyfriend of hers. I mean, who are they kidding, if they couldn't handle it, they would have left looong ago.

Felicia (Black Cat) not only wants to kill Spider-Man for betraying her, which he totally didn't, but also became a crime lord, which was based on stupid reasons. On top of which, according to the interview CBR had with Silk's writer Robbie Thompson, where she's now a regular, she's only going to get worse.

Yuri Watanabe (Wraith) has decided being an Anti-Hero and killing the bad guys and not caring who get in her way is more productive.

And now we have

Silk, Who in order to get revenge on the Goblin Nation for what they did to her brother and to pay for her brothers care, decides to join up with and work for Black Cat and become a villain herself, at least now there was reason for someone to do so. And where is Peter while this is happening becoming a business man, I'm sorry wasn't she supposed to be his responsibility.

as for the 6th woman in his life likely to turn on him next

My money would be on Anna Maria Marconi once Doc Ock returns.

There is another 7th I should mention

Granted it happened a good while before Superior started, a good 3 year+ before, but I don't think it's any less relevant, that person is Silver Sable, I believe this thing that is happening to the women is Peter's life in actuality started with her and even though we were told by Julia Carpenter who was Madame Web at the time that she survived what happened to her at the end of "Ends of the Earth" and that her story was not over, we still haven't heard anything else about her since.

My theory is

that when Mephisto took the love between Peter and Mary Jane, he also took Peter's ability to be loved as well, at least have that love taken a way after a build up, because that's the sort of person Mephisto is, he doesn't stop at one thing always takes a little extra.

If that's not the case, then I really don't know what the H*** Marvel is playing at.

The reason Carlie left is because she was turned into a goblin and she found out that her ex's body was taken over by a Criminal. But apart from that I agree with you.

BTW there are two of this post, so you might want to delete one.

In Carlie's case, she got out as soon as she figured out Peter was Spider-Man well before Superior put her through the wringer. She was never a big deal to begin with and does'nt deserve mentioning in the same esteemed company as MJ. She was forced down reader's throats and readers rejected her outright.

Your Mephisto theory is sound. There's no telling how much of post-OMD MJ is down to her or chaos magic influencing her and Peter and forcing them to act out-of-character since it is an altered state of reality (and though he said he'd leave Peter alone, can you really believe the word of a demon who, after making the deal, still finds time to clash with people in Peter's life like Flash/Venom?). Several versions of MJ, including ones written by Slott since then, have shown her to be courageous and encouraging of Peter's duel life, and I don't see why that can't continue with 616/Mephistoverse MJ. The only excuse we keep hearing is that Slott knows the relationship can go nowhere due to the locked toybox that is the marriage, so he has to intentionally create plot-driven cracks to justify them being apart, even if it makes no logical sense and flies in the face of character consistency.

Carlie was still a supporting character after she found out Peters secret, and it is only at the end of superior that she tells peter that she has had enough of Spider-man. Speak for your self I liked Carlie. the reason they are mentioned in the same paragraph is because they both had the same problem with Peter and the same reason for leaving, get over yourself.

It would only be sound if there was evidence to support the theory. there is no "devil magic" this is just the Myphistoverse thing all over again. and you know how that ended.

@zarius

I've added another to the list

Granted it happened a good while before Superior started, a good 3 year+ before, but I don't think it's any less relevant, that person is Silver Sable, I believe this thing that is happening to the women is Peter's life in actuality started with her and even though we were told by Julia Carpenter who was Madame Web at the time that she survived what happened to her at the end of "Ends of the Earth" and that her story was not over, we still haven't heard anything else about her since.

@animehunter: First off thank you for making this thread it need to be made, second Hells Yes I've sick and tired of what is becoming of the ladies in Peter Parker's life. It has become a cruel and redundant running gag/theme. Now we have Mary Jane and Carlie Cooper( who I never really cared for, she is too much of judgmental diva for me)

turned their backs on him saying they can no longer handle his life as Spider-Man, with Carlie leaving New York all together to start a life somewhere else and Mary Jane even though still living in New York hasn't visited Peter once or maybe even Aunt May, and god knows what will be going on with her in those 8 months, her and that place-holder of a boyfriend of hers. I mean, who are they kidding, if they couldn't handle it, they would have left looong ago.

Felicia (Black Cat) not only wants to kill Spider-Man for betraying her, which he totally didn't, but also became a crime lord, which was based on stupid reasons.

Yuri Watanabe (Wraith) has decided being an Anti-Hero and killing the bad guys and not caring who get in her way is more productive. Also like you said no follow up to Sliver Sable at all, which might be for the best since Slott well crap on her as well.

Your Mephisto theory doesn't sound far off or half bad, I just wish there was a cure for the sickness that has become of the women of Peter's life.

Don't the writers understand we just want a happy Peter? What is so wrong with happy Peter?

Why are they so terrible at writing women?

@thepeaceweapon: Because it's this foolish notion and concept that Peter is more relatable when is single, dating and has a struggling love life.

^^^THIS^^^ I have never understood why this is such a stigma for the current Marvel regime.

I also think it's lazy writing, either because some writers couldn't be bothered writing believable dialogue or are themselves involved in failed or non-exisitant relationships.

Reed & Sue Richards, Luke Cage & Jessica Jones are great examples of relationships showing not only love, trust, communication, respect, commitment and happiness, but also all the hardships and the determination to overcome against all odds.

@magnetic_eye: Exactly man it is a lazy, weak and asinine concept and theme, that requires very little skill of writers. Perhaps it like you said @magnetic_eye, the writers couldn't be bothered writing believable dialogue or are themselves involved in failed or non-exisitant relationships. It is a foolish, pathetic and redundant stigma that Marvel needs to leave behind. I highly agree with you Sue & Reed are a nice examples of relationships showing not only love, trust, communication, respect, commitment and happiness, but also all the hardships and the determination to overcome against all odds.

Thats what you get for dating normal women with no purpose but to serve as rescue victims, fanservice, and defined sex objects for the hero.

If they had superpowers(or were competent fighters with ties to the heroic side of world) and had more to them than serving as Peter's drama concubines, the writers would treat them better and capatilize on there ability to stand out on there own and be a true supporting character to Peter which is established as a action/slice of life comicbook fantasy.

Betty Ross and Pepper Potts were static characters and arm hangers to Bruce and Tony respectively before they got powers, and now that they do they are far more interesting that they were plus feel naturally

I'm just tired of what's happening to Spider-Man in general.

I've finally decided to drop The Amazing Spider-Man because of how much I dislike Slott's work.

Ultimate Spider-Man (TV) definitely does not compare to Spectacular Spider-Man (TV).

Despite the fact the movie hasn't come out yet, and I'm really trying to have faith, but I haven't liked a single personnel decision Marvel has made in terms of casting actors for Spider-Man in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

We haven't gotten a good Spider-Man game in a decent amount of time.

I can go on, and on, and on, but at the end of the day; Who am I to Marvel?

I stopped reading ASM a year ago for the first time since I've been reading comics. Slott needed to go a long time ago.

@animehunter: Agreed, also I think with the changing popularity of female characters I think they are making a bit of mistake as well viewership wise with how they are writing them.

To use a DC comparison it's Harley Quinn rather than say Wonder woman that's popular.

But instead it seems Marvel are still going for the same old same old

I agree that Slott needed to go a long time ago. I just wish that his run had ended with Superior Spider-Man. Also, Slott should have used some other female villain like Deathstrike, Madam Viper, or The Red Queen instead of converting Felicia into a villain that she never was.

What Marvel should do for once is to bring in outside characters into the Spider-Man methos like Jennifer Walters, The Black Widow, and Tigra. Sometimes when a writer is willing to mix things up when bringing non Spider-Man created characters, we get something interesting. With Slott, he just wants to stick to just Spider-Man created characters, which gets very boring. A cool team up that I would love to see the Arcade and Joystick vs Spider-Man. Or The Red Queen vs Spider-Man & Psylocke....

@darthfury78: I have to agree with you on that, Slott should have just used a female villain like Deathstrike, Madam Viper, or The Red Queen instead of converting Felicia into a villain that she never was. I have to somewhat agree with you on that concept of, What bring in outside characters into the Spider-Man methos like Jessica Drew, Jennifer Walters and Carol Danvers. My top vote would be for Jessica Drew.

@jimishim12 said:

Thats what you get for dating normal women with no purpose but to serve as rescue victims, fanservice, and defined sex objects for the hero.

If they had superpowers(or were competent fighters with ties to the heroic side of world) and had more to them than serving as Peter's drama concubines, the writers would treat them better and capatilize on there ability to stand out on there own and be a true supporting character to Peter which is established as a action/slice of life comicbook fantasy.

Betty Ross and Pepper Potts were static characters and arm hangers to Bruce and Tony respectively before they got powers, and now that they do they are far more interesting that they were plus feel naturally

Reality check for you pal. If everyone's a super in comic books, it would get incredibly boring real quick. Part of what makes the action "slice of life" realism of fantasy concepts in comic books is the dynamics and interactions between ordinary everyday folks and superheroes.

Not all women (support characters) need to be super powered in order for them to be defined as important, strong, independent, empowered and interesting. At the end of the day it comes down to how the writers are able to do justice to those characters in well written stories.

Obsessing that every male super hero needs a super powered girlfriend as a romantic interest isn't a very persuasive model or tool for expanding textual dynamics in storytelling, even fantasy driven super hero stories.

That premise alone severely limits the plausibility of such stories by removing any "slice of life" interactions between super and non super characters. Super powers do not move the story forward, characters do, they don't define the natural interactions between people, good writing does, therefore it doesn't discriminate.

@jimishim12said:

"Thats what you get for dating normal women with no purpose but to serve as rescue victims, fanservice, and defined sex objects for the hero."

So a super-powered woman isn't normal but has a purpose?

So a super-powered woman will never need rescuing?

So a super-powered woman is never serving fan service? (whatever that's supposed to mean)

So a super-powered woman will never serve as a sex object for the male hero?

If MJ can not handle Peter's life as Spider-Man, she should not have supported his "decision" (or rather Tony Stark convincing him to do so) to unmask himself in Civil War. You have gone through Kraven's Last Hunt, Venom, the Clone Saga, and the Marvel Civil War (along with some others that I cannot remember from the top of my head at the moment) and now you think you cannot handle it anymore? Really?

This.

MJ is'nt acting like herself in this altered state of reality, much like everyone else. They are all serving the plots rather than the plots serving them. It's out-of-character for her to act this way given all her growth over the years. And like you said, she supported Peter's decision to unmask in the first place.

Bottom line is it's getting really infuriating to deal with and I've got to say Renew Your Vows has done a really good job for me and I admire what it's going for. They show the real connection of a loving Peter and MJ and I hope that it'll matter come the end of the arc.

Betty Brant: Ditched because, no reason.

Felicia Hardy: Seems to me like the perfect match for Spider-Man but has no real care for Peter unfortunately.

Mary-Jane: Has known him and who he is for the vast majority of the Spider-Man history and yet constantly needs to re-learn lessons she's learned about 70 times already as an excuse not to be with him.

Gwen Stacy: I like Gwen smart, beautiful and was with Peter from day 1 but I've gotta say I think the plot of her death has been used so damn poorly in shaping Peter's life by inspiring him to make constantly stupid decisions.

Anne-Marie/Carly: The former I really don't care about and the latter at least was somewhat relatable actually and I did like Carly but the idea of her and MJ pairing up to say why Peter isn't worth the effort is garbage.

@adamanouer: Nice and solid how assessment of some of the ladies in Parker's life.

Anne-Marie/Carly: The former I really don't care about and the latter at least was somewhat relatable actually and I did like Carly but the idea of her and MJ pairing up to say why Peter isn't worth the effort is garbage.

I as well found disgusting and disrespectful.

Most definitely

@animehunter: The scene with Carly but the idea of her and MJ pairing up to say why Peter isn't worth, is the moment I knew something very critical was wrong with ASM.

It was just more useless anti-relationship propaganda from the writers, with the characters being slaves to the requirements of the plot than vice versa. We know MJ wouldn't really act like this. Carlie was always a bitch so I fully expected her to bail, but MJ's one of several in this book affected by devil magic so you can't really tell if it's her saying these things or not. We'll never really be sure of a characters actions until the taint of OMD is ultimately removed and everyone acts with their heads screwed on straight again, or something comes along that reminds the portions of their souls that remember their marriage of what their lives and responsibilities were like (like I suspect will happen with Annie)

There is no "Devil Magic". Just like the "Mephestoverse" theory, you are just making up excuses to justify what you are reading, there is a difference with disliking something and flat out denial . without explaining how they are acting out of character, because that will lead to pointless debates as saying a character is acting differently is not explaining how it happened through "Devil Magic" and we can go backwards and forwards posting scans that contradict each over, Can you give physical evidence IE: scans or interviews with Writers/Editors at Marvel that state that "Devil Magic" is effecting the characters.

The devil deal in OMD altered reality and brought out all of the worst aspects of Peter, MJ, and other's characteristics, it is so much simpler to write off all of the last few years of off-point characterization, infantile antics, and cowardly flip-flopping as being the result of chaos magic stemming from the splintering and refragmenting of reality, and would allow for a good redemption story that the characters at this stage of the deconstruction badly need in order to learn and grow properly, instead of living this lie.

The fact that you did not tag me really says a lot about your opinion. The deal with Mephisto did not bring out the worst parts of the characters. As I said before the most immature moments in the story happened in the last 2 years and for the 6+ years before that there are loads of examples of Peter acting like a hero and characters like the Black Cat acting in character so chaos magic is clearly not the reason because it would effect the characters all the time.Also Writing it off as chaos magic is wrong because there is no in writing evidence to support what you are saying, and if there is you are falling your argument by not presenting that evidence. to me it looks like you are just making up theory's because you are in denial

@zarius: I feel it is a concept that the whole industry follows more or less, but it seems like Marvel and DC really have it bad. I was never big on Carlie she was bitchcy and judgmental since her introduction, so I was happy and not surprised when she departed. But MJ was completely out of character and ratchet, I found it highly disgusting and disrespectful. Whatever reason that the women in Peter Parker's life are abandoning, hurting and dishonoring him, just needs to stop and end. Wither it is the casue of "Mephestoverse/Devil Magic" or Writers/Editors at Marvel, it all seriousness need to stop and be reevaluate.

Your Counter angle is not reasonable because there is no evidence for what you are saying.If chaos magic is being used, marvel would say it, they explained all the other effects of OMD, why would they leave this one out? I rebuttled this argument in my other post. without direct evidence you have a theory and the fact that you can't counter the MASSIVE holes I find in you theory shows that your theory is baseless.You are trying to find a truth that does not need finding Marvel is not explaining it because thereis nothing to explain. The Peter from After OMD is the 616 version of spider-man and these characters are acting on there own mind. I don't have an agenda.You sticking with your flawed and ridiculous theory's/lie and the fact that you try to pass them on as facts shows ignorance, and it de-credits what you say.

While it may not matter much outside of Battleworld (for the time being), I'd say the conclusion to Renew Your Vows has done fans of Mary Jane a great service, showing her in a hardass and pro-active light taking the fight to the Regent in some bitching looking armour. The daily strip today also highlighted a version of MJ's more on-point tenacity as she came to Peter and the cruise ship captain's aid against Namor

Yes I am. I personally wish they'd reverse One More Day but that's not happening. The thing is, there turning Spidey into a more Bruce Wayne like character for the next relaunch/soft reboot, so the whole failed romanced turning bad is only going to get worse and happen more often.

@william300: Unfortunately it seems you are correct, I personally think that concept is lame and dumb.

Evidence from MARVEL'S DATABASE

• Reality Manipulation: Mephisto was able to create the realities Earth-7161 and Earth-71241 by creating a small alteration in the Earth-616 reality. As part of a deal with Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson, Mephisto wove the Earth-81545 reality into Earth-616.

It seems pretty clear to me that Mephisto's super natural powers altered the 616 universe.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Mephisto_(Earth-616)

@magnetic_eye: That nice solid evidence.

@magnetic_eye: Thanks, good to feel vindicated.

Isn't the best part of watching peter romance is knowledge that his love interest is going to die horribly? Resulting in amazing fanrage worthy of popcorn.

So mephesto wove parts of the 161 and another universe together. this still dose not prove it is the mephistoverse because in the mephestoverse theory you said that the deal created a hole new universe. Also we don't know the full extent of what changed when the the universes were woven together.And because of this it is safe to assume that the Peter we have been reading about for the last 7+ years is the 616 Peter.

You have been partly vindicated, Because as I said above we don't know the full extent of what has been added into the main universe. And you still have not proven that the characters have been affected by "devil magic". add the fact that someone else had to prove your point because your argument was nonsensical shows that it does not mean alot.

So mephesto wove parts of the 161 and another universe together. this still dose not prove it is the mephistovers

What does it prove then? Mephisto wove one universe into another creating a new altered post OMD universe. What should it be called then?

Mephisto created a small alteration in the Earth 616 reality by weaving the Earth 81545 reality which is another universe, into the Earth 616 reality, by the very dictionary definition of "alteration" i.e (to change or cause to change in character or composition), the Earth 616 reality, (typically in a comparatively small but significant way).

Mephisto can manipulate reality. That's one of his powers. Peter and MJ made an OOC deal with the devil. In essence, without the Mephisto deal we would have a very different reality, constituting the original 616 reality and continuity.

The evidence is clearly stated in black and white on a Marvel Database website, and you still want to deny it? Whatever floats your boat dude. Take the issue up with Marvel and ask them to change it to suit whatever you think it should be..

How is the evidence in black and white? the page for the universe witch was added together with the 616 is a stub. It is not a new universe it is the 616 with a few differences, some of the differences are known some of the differences are unknown

YOU defined the Mephistoverse as a hole new universe outside off the 616 universe, it clearly is not so you was wrong.

I personally consider myself only a casual Daredevil fan, but...

I'm just throwing it in, not something important or anything, but.....I, on the other hand, am tired of what's happening with Spider-Man himself.

@punyparker: I agree and second that motion, it no longer Peter Parker/Spider-Man. More like Peter Stark or Wayne.

This. Marvel is gonna absolutely demolish Spidey until they finally get full creative control over the new film.

Was gonna vote for the "Most Definitely" option until I accidentally clicked the other one. *Sigh*

I did read on another board that it was mentioned Slott trying to give himself an out with Felicia by saying it's down to her bad luck. To me that does sound like backtracking a bit (thank god)

hated how silk treated my dude