CVU Announcement Thread

CVU RULES

Greetings fellow RPGers!

In light of the New Year and current issues with the CVnU, we've taken it upon ourselves to propose a series of improvements to the general RP experience in a rebranding of sorts. CV '17 is a list of improvements compiled by a variety of users who see general issues with the current status of the nU and wish to improve the user experience. We'll begin with the issues and move on to the proposed solutions. These solutions will not be subject to COE approval; we plan to port the CVnU's canon directly to this new ruleset, a la Crisis on Infinite Earths. Now onto the grievances.

The Empire System

The Empire Claim system as-is is without a doubt utterly broken. What started as exciting large-scale crossovers has become a recurring exercise in tedium. The outcomes of most empire claims are often extremely predictable based on the rosters of the attackers and defenders, making most claims far too easy. Furthermore, it ruins canon to say that after only one fight between superhumans in the capital city the fate of an entire country is now firmly under their control. There is no resistance and all changes are enacted immediately. As is, the country's local infrastructure and military serves merely as cannon fodder that assists the defenders, rather than the bulk of the resisting force. The Empire System is lazy, and always favors the attacker if they are prepared. Furthermore, the broken first-come first-serve system has already been loopholed. Finally, it restricts better canon by being the only means by which a country might be acquired by a villainous character. Forcing a massive brawl in the streets when there could otherwise have been a more exciting or strategic plot is stupid. Our changes, which will come later, will fix these issues.

We're Already Loopholing Bad Rules

There have been problems involving the nature of nations' military sizes ever since the Iceland debacle. The general consensus was, of course, that the small island nation amassing an army of millions overnight was senseless and ought to be stopped. In the drama that followed, a set of political rules were hastily enacted to prevent future incidents. I'll move on to examine the specific elements of these rules we have issues with and explain how they're already being subverted. I'll go in order.

Presidential Powers: Presidential powers will be equal to (but not exceed) the powers the entire RL government possess. For example the President of the United States will be able to pass bills, budgets and the like and it will be assumed that their legislation always passes the House and Senate, and is confirmed by the Supreme Court.

They will not, however, posses the powers to 'alter canon' in the way that an Empire holder can. For example they may deploy the army to another country in an invasion. However they may not give the army super powers, super-science materials or an impossible quantity/quality of equipment or manpower.

Essentially a political leader possesses all the powers of that country's government in real life but no more. A real life government cannot legislate superpowers into existence, nor can they pass a bill that advances scientific progress.

The underlined segments, while all well and good with the definitions provided, are undeniably detrimental to the political status of countries in the nU and directly incentivize Empire Claims, which, as explained above, are broken. These rules essentially serve as a catch-all for senseless alteration of a nation's setting. In doing so, however, they dramatically reduce the power of otherwise-strong nations in relation to Empires. It makes absolutely no sense that a small Empire in Cuba, for example, can easily outproduce and consistently defeat the entire United States in repeated engagements because the United States is being held back technologically while the Empire is not. This is a rule targeted at leaders who make bad narrative choices while in office, but under our democratically elected system, this would not happen, especially with our proposed edits to the rules.

Furthermore, these rules are easily loopholed, and have already been subverted on several occasions. Nobody has raised issue with the existence of super-strong private military forces such as Maverick Inc. or Daagal-Ares being utilized as a stand-in for the armed forces because they are high-quality works which improve canon rather than breaking it. We shouldn't have to subvert a rule to get good canon; this consistent and needless hurdle indicates a major problem with this hastily-drafted net to catch bad leaders.

Original Creations and Opt In / Opt Out: Original creations are not arbitrarily subject to this rule. The default state for an original creation is 'opt out', meaning that by default these rules do not apply to fictional cities. Instead their creator has creative control over the location, including its political figures, technology level, law enforcement and the like. By default these new rules have no effect on any original creation.

However the creator can decide to 'Opt In' to the CVnU Political Rules. When they choose to do this the CVnU Political Rules apply to the location. When this occurs that location's political leadership must run for election, political leaders will not have 'canon altering' powers to give the location superhuman technology, numbers or wealth beyond what an equivalent real life city would have.

The creator always retains the right to 'Opt Out' of the CVnU Political Rules at any time. This means that regardless of the results of an election, canon developments, or RPGs, the creator of a fictional location always retains the option to regain creative control. The location belongs to them, not the CoE or the RPGers because they are its creator.

For example a RPGer may create a 'Metropolis' for their 'Superman' character. They may give the police force of this Metropolis superscience weapons derived from alien technology and a jail that suppresses the powers of superpowered individuals (technologies that do not exist in real life). Then they may appoint the 'Lex Luthor' character of their OOC friend as the mayor of this city and proceed to fight against this corrupt mayor and his superpowered NPC police force. At this point none of the CVnU Political Rules will apply to the city.

Then the storyline might end and the RPGer may 'Opt In'. At this point the CVnU Political Rules will apply to the city and if Lex wishes to remain the mayor he must win an OOC election. In addition the superpowered NPCs will be removed and the police force will not have access to technology above what a real life police force would have. Whoever is elected mayor will find their superpower suppressing prison has 'broken down' and no longer functions; instead they have prisons with real life strengths and weaknesses. If the player of the Mayor needs superpowered assistance he must turn to another player. At this point all of the CVnU Political Rules apply to this location.

At any point the creator of this thread may decide to 'Opt Out' and return the thread to his or her control. This may be done regardless of who has been elected mayor, regardless of the progression or events of IC storylines and regardless of the current canon of the location. This 'Metropolis' always belongs to its creator. When he or she chooses to 'Opt Out,' none of the CVnU Political Rules apply to this location.

The Opt-In / Opt-Out system makes no sense whatsoever. There is no incentive to opt-in to a weaker system, and the opt-out instead serves to make original locations far more powerful than the default real-life cities. A hypothetical: my fictional city can cure cancer and generate a self-cloning super-army within the middle of the United States while still being owned by the States, but the rest of the country cannot. This makes no sense for canon, and directly subverts the point of the above rule. Cities can be super-advanced, but not countries? The entire system is flawed.

The Community is often Punished for Only One User's Infractions

The political limitations and technological limitations were imposed after the actions of only one user. The reality of the issue is that we as a community are too unwilling to directly approach problematic users and forbid them specifically from taking certain actions. Before these new rules were imposed, more competent writers could use technology creatively and realistically to paint a better picture of their nations and contribute to the setting of the nU. Because we feel the need to address these issues impersonally, other writers cannot reach their maximum potential. Our proposed changes would address this issue.

The Current COE System is Deeply Flawed

The original Congress of Editors system may have suited the original nU just fine, but it's been years since it has been updated and it has, sadly, failed to evolve. Because the COE can only interpret the aforementioned flawed rules, and is bound by them, they often serve more to obstruct canon than encourage its growth. Furthermore, the simple reality is that the current roster is not suited to the userbase of the forum. One member has gone completely inactive and the other two hardly RP, and often need to be caught up by current users whenever there is an issue.

In many cases, we've been silently ignoring their rulings and the CVnU rules and they haven't noticed.

This lack of involvement is not fair to current users and does not make for an effective system. Furthermore, because their decisions are final and cannot be appealed to by RPers, they have a greater degree of control over canon than ought to be allowed. By the definition imposed in the first part of the CVnU rules, an active user is one who has posted IC within the past 30 days.

By this definition, all members of our COE had been inactive for a great deal of time until very recently. This is not acceptable.

Mission Statement

The purpose of CV '17 is to encourage an atmosphere of creativity and well-developed canon while streamlining the rules to fit our small community. This is best achieved by a high degree of board-wide user involvement in decision-making and event-crafting. To this end, we'll craft a user experience that is better suited to the individual creative power of our members. The reality is that our system of interaction is based upon user trust and reputation. If a user is a skilled writer and capable of respecting the canon of others, they are supported by the community - even when they break these arbitrary rules. This thread is a perfect example of the current system obstructing creativity despite the popular support of most of the forum. The fact that it ended with loopholing another rule is an indication that the rules ought to be fixed.

Our proposal is to establish a better, more active COE, which will evaluate potentially controversial changes to canon on a case-by-case basis. Furthermore, we seek to create conditions conducive to well-crafted events and long-term story arcs. We will also post canon-specific rules that leave room for interpretation based on a user's skill and community trust, rather than simply outlawing all technological advancements and ruining the creative freedom behind countries. Finally, we will create a more coherent, interconnected world where no user is ignored. To avoid any problems with COE favoritism or bias, their decisions will be able to be overturned by an 80% in-favor-of-change community vote.

Furthermore, this is not a retcon of the CVnU. Past canon will remain intact, unless the community as a whole votes to tweak it.

Solutions / New Policies

Selling the World and Raising the Skill Cap

The most important element of a strong RPG community is a distinct setting. What this means is that we need to have a consistent NPC world with predictable, realistic responses to different scenarios. This means realistic economic systems, military infrastructure, and governments. No street-level user should be able to conquer a small country by winning just one brawl, as is in the current system; furthermore, they should have to encounter all the threats that come with managing their conquered country, which has now magically given in despite the presence of the (presumably) resistant civilian populace and still-active military. When a user completely ignores the infrastructure of the setting, the impact of their actions is diluted. Not every cop has to be hyper-competent, but governments, economies, and military forces ought to operate how they might in the real world. This would also raise the skill cap of individual users, forcing them to out-think the current preventative measures to super-terrorism in the real world and building a more concrete setting for the nU.

Ensuring the NPCs are sold just as well as the users are would be the new COE's responsibility. They would determine how countries react to wide-scale disasters or the establishment of Empires. If their decisions are objected to, they can be overturned by an 80% in-favor community vote.

The Magnitude of Events will be Proportional to their Build-Up

Build-up is an absolutely essential part of a narrative, but is even more essential to an RP. In the current system, a character with no past and no motivation can come out of nowhere and attempt to destroy the moon. This automatically elevates them to an extremely high-priority threat to the rest of the users, who, if they are playing heroes, are obligated to respond. However, if the sufficient effort isn't put into building up the event or attempting to provide some backstory, the actual experience is unfulfilling. It also means that there's no risk in attempting such a large-scale event; no time is lost if it falls through or if the plan fails. In short, there is no investment.

When there is no investment put into an event, there can be no guarantee that there are measured repercussions throughout canon. Often, this leads to big wastes of time, where so-called Canon Black Holes are developed. Users become uncertain as to whether or not events happened, or are currently happening, or even how they ended. This leads to confusion and the dilution of the setting of the nU.

If a world-shaking event requires a month's worth or more of buildup, or even smaller events, the actual climax of the RP will be immensely more satisfying. Furthermore, it ensures that the original poster of the event will follow through on the RP, because there will be time invested into seeing it through. This will also raise the stakes involved; users stand to lose actual progress in this new system, instead of just moving on to another world-shaking event a week later, which reduces the impact of crossover RPs. In this new system, the COE would approve the canonicity of a world-shaking event based on proof of buildup and accrued interest. Their vote can be overturned by an 80% in-favor community-wide vote.

Technology, Magic, and Powers will have Reasonable Consequences AKA Don't Save the World

This is a red flag for many, and with good reason. Creative self-control is the driving force of the nU. However, we must also pay attention to the same rule followed by most major publishers: Reed Richards is utterly useless. Using user-created technology to solve the energy crisis, cure all disease, end all wars, or boost the economy unnaturally is extremely detrimental to both the setting of the CVnU and the canon of others. An example:

Character A is a genius who creates an AI police force that neutralizes all crime in the United States.

This disrupts the canon of vigilante characters, a popular archetype that serves to stop these crimes. Another example:

Character B is a genius who creates a new nuclear power source that is the size of a wristwatch. It solves the energy crisis.

Not only would the geopolitical impact of this invention be astounding, this character essentially just fostered international peace by removing incentive to go to war over resources. All wartime RPs and settings are disrupted, as are characters whose appeal comes from relying on home-made power sources. Another hypothetical:

Character C is a genius who creates a new nuclear power source the size of a wristwatch. He markets it commercially.

This is essentially the same as Character B's scenario because the implication is that its use becomes widespread.

Character D is a genius who creates a new nuclear power source the size of a wristwatch. He auctions it off to the highest bidder; only the ultra-rich can even dream of affording it.

This is better, because it doesn't create massive changes that impact other users. Our goal is that nobody is ignored; in the current nU, users would have to ignore this invention if they wanted to retain their setting. On a wider scale, things like this have the same problem: they "save the world." In a world with these inventions widely used, drama is inevitably reduced as characters' struggles are diminished. Insta-solving these issues dilutes canon and harms the narrative of every RP. We could rectify these issues by encouraging the application of the Reed Richards is Useless trope.

Put Effort In

What sets the CVnU apart from other RP sites is the persistent setting of our universe and our tendency to develop our characters. An essential element of this is effort put into specific concepts involving combat or backstory. There's no reason why a user who puts no work into creating an ultra death-gadget should be sold just as hard as a user who took the time to create limitations and explanations for how said gadget functions. Likewise, a user who appears from nowhere with the power to destroy a city should not be awarded the same amount of attention as one who worked hard to build up a story and interesting character. This also leads to another issue: Don't open the RP with your character succeeding! Users need every chance to stop a character from achieving their goal. An RP about a bomb threat should never begin with the bomb going off. Unfortunately, this happens all too often, usually as a means of achieving "cred" for a villain character. Characters should not start out being the most feared - that needs to be achieved over time. This cannot be regulated save for the aforementioned example, in which supervillain terror-plans ought to have effort put into them as well as equal opportunity for all to stop any element of the plan from succeeding.

However, this goes both ways. No problems will be instantly rectified by hero characters as well. Particularly with Empire Claims, there will need to be reasonable power limits for objective-based RPs. These can be addressed on a case-by-case basis with the new COE and overturned, as always, by an 80% in-favor community-wide vote.

"Maining" Characters as "Insurance" / Crossover Events

Earlier, we discussed the notion of "insurance" in an RP. If a major event is started by a recently-developed character, odds are that the character and event will be abandoned. This leads to canon black holes, where users are uncertain of whether or not an event concluded or if the antagonist escaped or died. Furthermore, a lack of incentive to main a single character or group of characters leads to dropped story arcs and a lack of narrative development. To improve the buildup for events and contribute to the setting of the nU, we propose that only "mained" characters can initiate wide-scale events.

We need insurance that an event's outcome will be referenced in the future, or that it'll even finish. Forcing big-event posters to main one character would lead to better-fleshed-out motivations as well as higher quality storylines. Furthermore, it would prevent new users or users coming off of hiatuses to enact world-changing canon then vanish, which wastes people's time and dilutes canon. We ought to incentivize "maining" only one character at a time, so as to keep our setting intact and provide for better stories. Open RPs, or RPs which often threaten cities, countries, or even the world, should only be initiated by "mained" characters, instead of flavor-of-the-week alts.

We propose that, in order to post a city-wide or nationwide event, in addition to the proper build-up, a character must be mained for at least one month prior to posting.

Empire Claims will be As Hard As They Should Be

This goes hand-in-hand with "Selling the World." As is, a single brawl in the middle of the street determines who controls every aspect of an entire nation's military, economy, technology level, and culture. Empire Claims ought to be the hardest objectives in the entire forum, rather than the easiest, as they are currently. To that end, we will ensure that a claim undertaken without proper preparation, build-up, or accounting for the present infrastructure will fail. If you want to take over the United States, you'd have to bear things in mind like:

1. How will I beat the military?
2. How will I deal with the heads of state?
3. How will I keep the economy intact?
4. How will I deal with the remaining armed forces?
5. What about citizens who resist?
6. How will I manage my new nation?
7. What about attempts to re-take the country?

Currently, the list is this:

1. How will I get at least six users on my side beforehand, to make sure we win the superbrawl?

Done. That's it, you now control all of Russia.

This system is flawed because we try to condense a massive storyline (taking over an entire nation) into one several-week-long event. Rome wasn't built in a day. An Empire should take months. As such, our new Empire Claim system will instead be a series of RPs, rather than one single all-out fight. Empire Claims, instead of being a casual "I want my character to get some street cred" event that is tedious for other users, should be a hard-mode objective-by-objective struggle for the claimant. They will be ratified by the new COE and resisted by the new COE controlling aspects of the military, economy, civilian life, and even the involvement of foreign nations. Furthermore, there should be no set roster for attackers and defenders; there's no reason to treat these claims like anything other than objective-based RPs. That being said, as above, there will be limits on who can be involved for the sake of a story.

Empire Claims should be hard, and that's how we're going to make it.

New Empire Claim Process (By Neon Leon)

1) We establish a campaign-based Empire Claim systems that will require several RPs, proper selling of the NPCs of that nation, the opportunity for other users to oppose, and proper means of a take over that are realistically gained, and that the acquisition of those means were at least partially preventable by other users. These Campaigns will come in two forms: War Campaigns and Political Campaigns. The CoE will provide that nation's opposition, while the Vice CoE will judge the Campaign in an attempt to avoid a conflict of interest.

(a) In the case of a War Campaign, the user must (in a method that is at least partially preventable by other users) first gain enough resources and manpower (or robot power or zombie power or whatever means of force the character can reasonably manage) to realistically defeat the army of the nation they are attacking, as well as any users who are defending.

b) In the case of a Political Campaign, the user must gain political relevance and leverage in a way that is reasonable and detailed, as well as preventable by other users who wish to be political rivals.

2) Before an Empire Claim begins the claimant-to-be must request the permission of the CoE and specify whether it is a War Campaign or a Political Campaign. The CoE will review the request and if they believe the user has sufficient IC resources as well as OOC ability to handle the campaign, they may grant the user permission to begin an Empire Claim campaign (however, the CoE will also be allowed to deny the campaign regardless of its legitimacy should they feel too many campaigns are active). When a user is granted permission to begin a Campaign, they must create a thread with either [War Campaign: Main Thread] for War Campaigns or [Political Campaign: Main thread] for Political Campaigns in its title. Once the main thread has been posted, the Campaign owner must wait 72 hours to post the first Campaign related RP.

a) For a War Campaign, users will not be allowed to take any territory belonging to the country they wish to claim until they gain permission from the CoE to start their Campaign and they have waited the prerequisite 72 hours past the posting of the Main Thread. The Vice CoE will decide beforehand what the necessary military objectives that the Claimant must control will be and the minimum amount of the defending army's soldiers that must be defeated, which will be relative to the size of the army of that country. Both of these must be publicly posted in the Main Thread's OP.

b) For a Political Campaign, users will not be allowed to take a political postition above state level or that country's closest equivalent until they gain permission from the CoE to start their Campaign, and they have waited the prerequisite 72 hours past the posting of the Campaign's Main thread.

3) During an Empire Claim Campaign, the Claimant will not be allowed to play a character besides the one they begin the Campaign with. If the country in question is not already owned by another user, the CoE will control certain aspects of the defending country to provide the opposition. In addition other characters will be allowed to defend or assist the Claimant or be involved in any other way, provided they have a legitimate reason to do so and are not simply attempting to unreasonably obstruct the user's attempts out of spite.

a) In a War Campaign, this means the CoE will establish the unowned country's military, economy, civilian resistance, etc. Any battle for an objective territory must be in its own RP, while smaller skirmishes may occur in a location thread. The Vice CoE will decide the result of each RP involving a major objective, and in the event that they declare all objectives owned by a Claimant, and that the defending army has suffered sufficient losses, they will declare the Claimant the victor and a mandatory roast thread will be opened to mock the CoE's loss.

b) In a Political Campaign, the political climate of that country (such as the parties and Political enemies) will be controlled in part by the CoE. If the nation in question does not already have one, an IC Political thread for that country will be created. Any policy debate that does not regard that government's basic structure will occur in this thread, while debates about the potential change of the major structure of a government will have a unique thread. A Political Claimant will only be declared the winner if they create a Political Climate within that country that allots the Claimant sole control of that country's military forces, which will be declared by the Vice CoE.

4) Should a Claimant win a nation, they must realistically sell the aftermath of the Claim Campaign in whatever form that would be, with the exception that they will be allowed to have the full loyalty of the army of that nation.

a) After a War Campaign, the destruction caused by the claimant's war must not be hand-waved away. They must rebuild it in a manner that is consistent with their own resources and the resources the nation would have left after being overtaken. Although the army will be fully loyal to the Claimant, soldiers the Claimant killed during the Campaign will remain dead, meaning they will only have the surviving portion of the nation's army.

b). After a Political Campaign, the full army of the nation will presumably be alive (unless the Claimant gained popularity through war), and they will be fully loyal to the Claimant. By winning a Political Campaign, the Claimant will be allowed to use this army's loyalty to immediately create a dictatorship if they have not already, but they must sell the political backlash if they do so. Otherwise, the Claimaint may operate within the political climate in which they won, able to make decisions within the checks and balances that government had at the end of the Claimant's Campaign (This is of course not the case for military decisions. The Claimant will have sole control over their army, as this is the victory condition for a Political Campaign.)

Transitioning to CV '17 and the Nature of Current Canon (By Nox, Surkit, and Pyrogram)

One of the issues that was brought up by moving to a new universe is the question of canon. What stays? What remains? What gets erased? For the people that want to erase their characters from the CvnU, we think a Crisis type of event would work best to explain why they exist on ‘17 and not nU anymore. After this is achieved, this will take charge:

Everything in the CVnU is canon to CV'17 unless stated otherwise.

A comparison would be:

"Everything in Star Wars the Old Republic lore is canon to Star Wars Disney unless stated otherwise."

It works with a huge franchise like Star Wars, so why wouldn't it work with us? It means anybody wanting to join CV'17 can and their characters won't be affected. For characters that want to coexist on both we can do that too. It’s up to the writer and what they want to do.

CVnU canon should be in the background and the CV'17 new canon in the foreground. This is similar to how Classic Marvel canon is barely acknowledged by Modern Marvel, but it's still technically canon. Before the universe begins, however, large modern canon will be evaluated by the entire community and decided if it will still be canon to CV'17. Examples:

• Did the Iceland Fiasco ever take place in the first place?
• Did the Last Guardian ever crash the stock market?
• Etc...

A new universe also gives us the opportunity to create a more linear timeline that the CvnU. Some characters have aged dramatically while some have stayed forever young. With a new universe we can do periodical time jumps if the majority of the community decides to. The main difference that we want between the CvnU and CV '17 should be that we are more democratic. More freedom, challenges, and encouraging better quality will be what gets people to leave the CvnU behind.

Transitioning canon can be as simple as putting [CV '17] in the title of the location rather than [CVnU.]

Conclusion

This is not a retcon, and it's not a hostile takeover. This is a new universe similar to DC's Rebirth. The community will now be able to decide what is not, and more importantly, what is canon. Empire Claims will take effort, as will regular crossover events...and we guarantee they will be vastly improved for it. Unlike the current system, in which only a few semi-active users loosely control the entirety of the nU, we can have an improved CVnU with better post quality and event buildup. We intend to port the nU's canon to the CV '17 universe, which is for all intents and purposes exactly the same, but with these new elements. We'll downplay the introduction of Reed Richards is Useless technology from past canon as well as the power of the various Empires, so as to create a more coherent setting.

In CV '17, no user will be ignored, and everyone will have a hand in creating the universe.

Signed,

• Lichter
• Nox / Reynard
• Surkit / Black Virtue
• Neon Leon / Puppet
• Dreadstroke / Dreadpool10
• Joey, Destroyer of Worlds
• Neuromind / Below0Gaming
• Azra
• Purveyor / Dr. Wheatley
• Warsman
• Vex
• Pyrogram
• Luna Hawk
• Cassius Knightfall

CVU COE (4/1/17 - Present)

• Kaija
• Pyrogram
• Lichter

CVU Vice COE (1/2/17 - Present)

• Azra
• Impero

Official Suggestion Thread here.

This is going to be great.

I'm definitely in for this. Been waiting for this for 5 years.

@_reynard_:

When the movie summarizing this comes out I'll pick a side.

@cadmus_knightfall: Good to have you on board, man. :)

@thisisgonnahurt:

Take your pessimistic attitude to the X-Pit.

@_reynard_:

Gonna have to read this more than once, lol.

Sounds good though.

@lichter: I've been around here since I was about 16 years old which was over 7 years now, of course with much older accounts which I have since lost or just don't use. I loved this place, because for once I could use a skill, a skill that was one of the few things I was ever good at - writing. There's people on this site I've never met, nor do I have a clue what they look like in person but yet I still call them friends.

The past few years here have been stagnant, to say the least in my humble opinion and much of what you mentioned above, I 100% agree with. It killed my creativity and will to write again. However, I decided yesterday that one of my New Year's resolutions is to involve myself more on the Vine. I now finally have two characters constructed that I have come to love, and this is exactly what I needed to see here.

I truly cannot wait to see what unfolds.

@cadmus_knightfall: That's awesome to hear, dude. Excited to see you writing again.

@lichter: Glad to be back!

In all due respect. I can count all the people who were 'loopholing' on one hand, and all of them are on the list of the people that signed this.

Two of which I don't particularly trust to be in a position dictating any forum wide canon. No matter how socialistic this 'flyer' appears.

Empire system rework and build-up are fine imo.

@damien_bonaparte:

• The loopholing was positive, and encouraged by the community. The rules needed to be loopholed because they were bad, as I explained in the first section.
• The new CoE's decisions could be overturned by the community if they were deemed overly biased.

Still, glad to have your support! If you have any other questions, please ask. We want all the help we can get with this.

Going to read this very carefully.

I like the idea of reworking the Empire Claim system and introducing proper build-up to major RPs. Specifically the addition of War Campaigns and so on.

Guess I'll fit into a Damian Wayne or donna troy situation regardless of being new or not I like it.

Alright, I'm onboard then!

I never signed this.

But I guess I will now ;-)

Recently for about 2 years people have felt this way, this was bound to happen.

@doctor_wheatley: My bad, I totally thought you signed it. I'm sorry dude.

Note that the specific wordings of some clauses in this can be (happily) changed. We don't want to start any panic over things that can be discussed, changed, prevented, etc.

I can definitely appreciate the work put into this. Hopefully this'll pan out positively too.

Personally, I'd love to read someone actually going through the full empire claiming process.

@ran: Thanks, man!

It's coming from 15 different people. It's multiple voices. @lichter is our Thomas Jefferson.

@mourningsparrow: I get it, not every user gets along.

But this isn't Lichter's idea or Leon's though they were the ones who wrote a lot of it up. It's the wants and ideas of like 15 people, and I really think the forum genuinely benefits from it

Jesus look how long this is lol

You forgot to put in the time frame.

@mourningsparrow: Did you read the whole thing? I'm not making an attempt to be rude, but that's not what this proposal is about. It goes far more in depth than that.

@black_virtue: My bad. I can't remember exactly what we came up with aside from this taking about two weeks to fully enact.

@mourningsparrow: What do you consider unpleasant about Leon's proposed Empire System?

@mourningsparrow: If you want to get into that, I could claim that you've already violated the order by posting in this thread. However, because the point of this is to include all users, I didn't say anything. This is going to be an open, mature discussion.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long

gonna have to look at this thing later.... probably in small increments cause holy crap

Ikr. Waiting on the movie for it =P Feel like Dwayne Johnson could play Empire Claim Rules.

@_drake: I GET DWAYNE JOHNSON? Heck yes.

@mourningsparrow:

• I don't use proxies. If I have something to say, I say it myself.
• We aren't "taking over the forum." We're establishing another universe and inviting members of the CVnU to join. You need to read the entire post.
• Nothing is being forced. The CVnU can very well remain in addition to CV '17.

Make sure you read everything before you give people the wrong idea of what this is.

@mourningsparrow: It's a different universe. The 'Signers' of this proposal aren't imposing anything on anyone. It's a post regarding this new universe and it's rules, established agreements, and inner workings that are still subject to change.

@puppet:

Lucky bastard. I loved his part on 127 Hours.

@lichter: Do you have the permission of the original architects of the CVnU?

IT'S

NOT

CVNU

@nordok: Technically it is to be a new universe, so we wouldn't need it.