What If Russia Had Never Entered WW2?

Germany never attacked Russia and they had stay neutral throughout the war?

Soviet Union in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Germany would have continued to dominate the rest of Europe.

And as they didnt lose they would send reinforcements to Japan in battle to conquer Asia and defend from US... would be hellish. But as long as US got their nukes

Well, they didn't enter, Germany forced them in.

Plus, Germany was kicking Russia's arse early in the war. Germany didn't lose to Russia until it got too cold for the Germans and they started freezing to death...literally.

If Germany had waited to attack Russia, Germany would've demolished them.

Sounds like an Alternate History story. There's probably a Harry Turtledove book on the subject.

You forgot the part where they both invaded Poland.

@darthmummy: Yeah, you're right. Stalin had no plans to not enter WW2, he just thought the French would do better against Hitler. He wanted to take both Germany and France.

Ah, the French: they've lived off the glory of Napoleon for a century. =D

Germany would have conquered europe without to much problem.

@superguy1591: honestly the winter wasn't the reason Germany failed, it was hurlers arrogance and ego that cost them.

He halved his forces just in order to capture Stalingrad instead of keeping them together and going straight for the oil lines, he wanted to wipes talons name off the earth and what occurred was one of the longest and bloodiest battles to date which ended in the Germans forces surrounded and unable to get supplies.

The winter didn't help them off but it was hitlers ego which overshadowed his generals plans which was to cut off Russia's supply to the oil which would of been detrimental to Russia's war effort

@bruxae:

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender...--Winston Churchill.

My grandfather would've made it hard on them.

I hope you're not actually serious with that statement? Russia made a decisive contribution to the war that turned the tide.

Had Germany not attacked Russia, there would never have been the Battle of Stalingrad. Before the Battle of Stalingrad, Britain was struggling and trying to get the United States to help. The United States was in a near stalemate with Japanese. Germany was doing major submarine damage against the United States that's rarely discussed. Germany would have concentrated it's forces against Britain and helped Japan turn the tide against the United States. Germany would have overrun the European continent and pooled its resources to launch an offensive against Britain. The United States would have been supplying the Britons with weapons and made a stand against Germany on the British homeland against the Germans. Japan and Germany would have defeated the United States in Japanese territory. Germany and Japan would have marched towards the United States homeland and met with a fierce battle against the United States Navy and Air Force. Britain and the United States would have lost the British homeland and reconstituted to reinforce the United States homeland. Canada would have marched to the United States homeland to help reinforce the United States and the Canadian Navy and Air Force would have helped the United States. Japan and Germany would have broken the Naval and Air Force defenses and sent a weakened force on the United States homeland. Japan and Germany would have a fierce battle on the United States coasts. Japan would take on the United States on the Pacific and Germany on the Atlantic. There would have been no atomic bomb. The United States, British, and Canadian militaries would have been broken down and the Germans and Japanese would have been met with fierce gorilla warfare by the United States population, mainly, and the Canadians would have retreated back to Canada. Japan and Germany would control all of the land mass across the Atlantic, except Russia. The war in the United States homeland would rage for up to ten years until the Germans and Japanese could build reinforcements. The Germans and Japanese would send in reinforcements and overwhelm United States resistance and control the United States homeland, head for Canada, and conquer it after a shorter but still protracted battle. The Germans and Japanese would than turn on Russia and conquer them, giving them full control of the European continent. The Germans would than turn on Japan, defeat them, and control the world. Hitler would than have in place his thousand year Reich. All non-whites would be driven to near extinction, the Jews would be driven to near extinction, when God Himself would intervene for the sake of the Jews. God would have established the Jewish homeland, the Christians would be raptured up, and the seeds of the Great Tribulation would be set into motion.

The War would've lasted a lot longer without the aide of the Russians.

By the end of the war, the United States was outproducing everyone combined and had nuclear bombs.

Germany would have still lost but it would have taken a lot longer.

It kinda helps that none of the fighting took place in the U.S....so things like our factories weren't getting bombed to hell

The war would have lasted longer but the allies would have still won

Nazi's probably would've won UNLESS the US dropped the bomb on Germany. Before the US entered the war, it was basically just Russia fighting the Nazi's because the British were almost finished and the French were already under Nazi rule.

Without the bomb, the British would've been defeated, and the US probably would've been exhausted by transporting all of their own resources to wage the war.

And no here haha. The Russian's would've beaten the Nazi's without the US's help. It would've been a repeat of Napoleon's attempt on Russia.

@lateralus: Exactly. The Americans could also continue technological research on improving aircraft and creating nukes without worrying about defense.

Nazi's would have kicked the shiz out of britain and then dominated the U.S.

the allies would've lost WW2

Germany would have stomped everyone.

Germany still would have lost, there was simply too much power against them. However, the war would have been much longer and bloodier, unless the US went buck wild with atomic bombings.

The idea of the USSR's casualties being distributed amongst the allies sends shivers up my spine.

And, I hope nobody takes this as me saying the USSR wasnt one of the most, if not the most, important allied combatant in WW2, that's not what i'm saying at all. But Germany needed stronger allies.

The Soviet Union would have reemerged as an superpower since they wouldn't have exhaust their resources for the war effort. I find unlikely Germany would have won, but the war would have dragged out way longer than it did.

This is 100% true.

When Germany turned their attention to Russia, Britain was staggering and trying to get help from the United States, while the United States was in a stalemate against Japan. The United States had just declared war against Germany. Germany would have had the option to both help Japan and turn the tide there and/or go for the kill against Britain. Things were drastically against the allies without Germany getting itself caught up with the Russians. With Germany attacking the United States, such would have even affected or prevented the United States from developing the atomic bomb; part of what got Japan to back off was the atomic bomb, so, without out it, Germany did have a likely path to victory or, more accurately, Germany with Japan.

One thing about the war in the pacific is the fact that it was always on Japan's doorstep. They were fighting literally to survive. The US was invading. The Japanese themselves knew they could never have hoped to actually cripple or soundly defeat the US. They simply wanted to make the US give up, and gain ground in the Pacific. If Germany attempted to help, the US may have been pushed back, but it would only have lengthened the war, nothing more.

Now, Germany actually pulling a Coup de Grace on Britain is a more plausible scenario, but I wouldn't personally count them out. Also, look at the US casualties and production through out. The US never really reached it's peak possible strength during WWII, their production could have increased even more. Also, population plays a huge factor, the US had lives to burn. Basically, the best Germany could hope for against the US, is demoralizing them, and getting them to cut their losses in Europe.

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: you're selling the winter short since the Germans were knocking on the door of the Russians and the Russians BELIEVED that all was lost.

Without the winter to change the tide, the Germans quite possible would've won that battle. You're right: the Germans were over confident, and the fact that they were under-prepared for the winter was their undoing.

The Russian winter WAS the change of tide, it was what allowed the Soviets to go on the offensive after the Germans had been the whole fight.

@dshipp17: I never said Russia didn't, I said that the tide changed due to their winter.

@eyedcyou: I know, but you can't deny the fact that invading Russia in the winter was their biggest tactical error, not that they wouldn't have her d their own.

Canada would have done the job (Like they did).

Pilasy:La Voix d'un homme

'Murica still would've won.

The way the Germans were sweeping across Europe, it's no doubt that they, along with the Japanese, would have wiped the United States out of Japan/the Pacific. The Japanese were holding the United States to a stalemate; if the United States was pressuring the Japanese as you say than there would have been no need to employ the atomic bomb; the bomb and the losses of their ally was meant to reduce the Japanese moral and cause them to stop fighting, which they did. The Russians paid a huge casualty price because of the power of the German army.

Clearly, the Germans were going to regroup and just pound the Britons to defeat; they were in no state to say they could have substituted the Russians in the war. Only because of the price the Russians paid were the United States and Britain able to effectively attack the Germans from the west, because the Russians had destroyed huge blocks of their army. Had that power been there, the Germans would have gone on the offensive against the British instead of being in place for the United States and British to attack from the west. Basically, because of the Russian victories, the Japanese had reason to have reduced confidence and the German generals had reason to lose confidence. The Germans were somehow using the armies from the conquered territories to increase their military, so the British would have been group with the Germans to than break the United States in Japan and than come towards the United States.

One possible way the Germans could have prolonged the war and probably eventually loss would have been if they decided to go for an invasion of the United States homeland instead of either helping the Japanese and fighting the British, or turning their full might towards Britain with the intent of crushing them and than helping the Japanese. By going for an invasion of the United States homeland, Germany would have spread its resources too thin for that stage of the war and allowed the British to recoup and pool their resources with the United States; this strategy would also allow the United States to continue to pound and grind away at the Japanese; such a move would have been stupider than turning their attention to the Russians, given the need to cross the ocean to face a force more menacing than the British over a much smaller water source; Germany proved they understood this, when they gave up the air attack against the British after the battle of Britain; the Russians were much closer and over land.

So, you're suggesting that all the Germans had to do was withdraw from Stalingrad in response to the approaching winter than pick back up where they left off in the spring? This implies that the Russians lacked human and military intelligence; you don't think the Russians would regroup, pool their resources, or go on the offensive against the Germans?

@dshipp17: Im not sure what you're basing your information on, but at least your entire argument about Japan is factually incorrect. The US victory in the Pacific was already assured before the atomic bomb was dropped. The only reason it was utilized at all was to end the fight faster, as the original plan was a pretty rough one. The US was hopscotching from valuable island to valuable island, each step was a grim one, and who can really say how much longer it would have taken, but the US was making slow, steady progress. Also, maybe you should look up the fire bombing in Tokyo, it was a far more catastrophic event for the Japanese, and happened before the atom bomb was deployed. The red cross puts death tolls as high as the millions as a possibility. The most significant thing about the atomic bomb was its efficiency, it erased 100,000's in the blink of an eye.

Its all hypothetical, but necessity is the mother of invention. The US did everything it did in WW2 without actually ever being directly threatened itself. I imagine if things were going as poorly as they almost assuredly would be if the Soviets never jumped, the US would have reached the same levels of production that they actually showed near the end of the war in half the time. I also predict the atomic bomb would have likely been used sooner and more frequently.

Now, I dont particularly know why you and I are debating, as we at the very least agree on the most critical point: the USSR was the tentpole of the allied forces. No allied country did more in WW2, and I said as much in my first post. I just dont believe German ever actually had a realistic chance at world domination.

As a person from the United Kingdom I have to say that the Nazis would have dominated us completely if it wasn't for Russia and America.

You guys are forgetting that the U.S. obtained all those German scientists through Operation Paperclip, which was only possible because Germany was defeated. Germany was defeated because Russia entered the war. Without those scientists, no nukes. So.......nukes are out of the question.

Let Russia be R and UK (and any other allies excluding U.S.A) be E

World War 2 will be represented by ii

Let us also interpret Germany as G and R@pe be r

ii-R = G r E

Basically if Russia stayed out of WW2 Germany would've taken over Europe (and possibly some more countries)

They would have dominated Europe for a while, the allies would eventually take a while to win

Stalin had been planning to betray Hitler and invade Germany, so if Germany doesn't invade Russia, then the Russians eventually invade Germany anyway.

Source?

There would've been a lot more casualties in this alternate version of WW2. My guess is that the allies would've still won, it would've just taken a much longer time. We still had the atomic bomb. Post #22 sums up my thoughts pretty well.