Those racists and Zendaya casting controversy.

Agreed. Just look a both Dr Dooms or if you ignore the looks for a second Supergirl's Jimmy Olsen.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/off-topic-5/do-you-have-a-waifu-1732894/?page=1

@kittyparker13 said:

Every single one of those movies was considered controversial - and many of them are viewed as outright jokes. Nobody takes Last Airbender, Dragonball, or Gods of Egypt seriously.

Just looked at the Flash casting - wtf?

Hope they're getting Gary Busey for Aunt May

No waifu no laifu

@soaring: There are some men who look like old woman when they grow old. Have you seen Steven Tyler lately? XD

Certainly have - He's let himself go a bit

@mysticmedivh: I know, I watched the video posted about it months ago. I'm just saying that is why some were upset.

People keep forgetting that she's not even black. She's mixed. Bit of a difference.

@jedixman said:

@kittyparker13 said:

Every single one of those movies was considered controversial - and many of them are viewed as outright jokes. Nobody takes Last Airbender, Dragonball, or Gods of Egypt seriously.

I remember many comic book and anime fans complaining about the casting for Dragon Ball, The Last Airbender and Ghost in the Shell. People are still voicing their opinion in favor of Japanese actors being cast whenever an Akira movie comes up. The Great Wall is directed by a Chinese guy who wanted Matt Damon for the role, so it's hard to tell a Chinese director your movie isn't Chinese enough. These examples are kind of backwards when it comes to fans of the source material's complaints. They, by and large, don't want white people taking the roles of Asian characters.

As I stated in previous posts, I don't care about her race, skin color or ethnicity, I only care if Mary Jane Watson has red hair because I consider that her defining characteristic. Black Nick Fury was fine with me because he had the eye patch (defining characteristic) and black James Olsen is fine with me because Jimmy Olsen doesn't have any defining characteristics. Black Perry White (ha!) falls into the same category. Now, a black J. Jonah Jameson would need that cheesy mustache and that horrible flat top haircut. There are often singular traits within a character's visual design which immediately identify them. I'm just asking that those characteristics not be tossed aside over a social agenda.

Doesn't matter. She ain't full white so people are gonna complain.

True enough. It's not worth complaining because she might not even be playing MJ. If she is then we haven't even seen her performance so how can we make a judgment. If she isn't then comic book fans have spent the last week whining and making themselves look stupid.

When they cast a white actor to play a black character, and people complain, racists are those who did the casting.

When they cast a black actor to play a white character, and people complain, racists are those who complain.

Let them b*tch and moan.

I used to care about the movies being accurate representations of comics, but I've accepted in the meantime that movies are alternate reality and they can have minor changes, so I don't mind it anymore.

She just doesn't look like Mary Jane. That's why people are complaining. How about we get someone that actually looks like Mary Jane to play Shuri in Black Panther? That sounds pretty PC to me.

It's not even the same thing and you know that. That line of arguing is so childish and it literally makes us all look bad. It's like we're toddlers throwing a bloody tantrum. The point of this, frankly ridiculous outrage, is that we're all jumping the gun again. Marvel have proved time and time again that they can get casting right. If they've given her the role it's because they believe she'll do a good job. There could be someone who looks exactly like MJ and have no acting chops whatsoever. Should we give her the role? Or should we have a little faith that Marvel know what they're doing. It's the same thing every time. Ben Affleck as Batman, Chris Evans as Cap, RDJ as Iron Man and even Heath Ledger as the Joker. And on topic, the girl is actually white or at least 50% of her is. She can identify as white or black if she wants. Calling her black is a wrong assessment. Plus she can pull off red hair if that's the only thing we've worried about.

Of course she doesn't. But did Ben Affleck seem like the Batman type when he was cast as Bruce Wayne in BvS? Everyone complained about his looks before he was actually Batman. And now people seem to love him. Or what about Will Smith as Deadshot in Suicide Squad? Also applies here. So what was your point about the looks?

@mortein said:

@comicace3 said:

Everyone complained about his looks before he was actually Batman. And now people seem to love him.

That ain't Ben Affleck that is Popeye the Sailor Man.

@soldierofel: There could be someone who looks exactly like Shuri and have no acting chops whatsoever. Should we give her the role? Nah, let's give it to Meryl Streep because she's a good and versatile actress that could fit the role better than some unnamed actress that looks like her, right?

@comicace3: The "people didn't like him/her, but now they do" logic is pretty bad because it's a baseless blanket statement. Who are these people and do they all agree on the same thing? I had no problem with Ben Affleck being Batman and I know that a lot of people that did didn't disapprove of him because of his looks. I still don't like Will Smith as Deadshot just like I still don't like Michael B. Jordan as the Human Torch. They aren't the same characters to me. So, I don't see what the point was of bringing that up. It's not like people that complain about these things all have a hive mind and all agree and disagree on the same exact points. Nice dodge of the question by the way. Would it be okay if Shuri was played by someone that didn't look like Shuri?

So what this entire debate devolves into is us throwing a hissy fit because we think she won't do good enough? And you're argument is stupid because who the hell would think of casting a Caucasian person as a historically black character, one of the small number that are even in the comic universe. It is not equal, not remotely regardless of what you or whoever uses this argument thinks. This entire thing, this entire argument boils down to all of us whining about something we have absolutely no idea what will result in. Zendaya could be the best MJ in the media but would we still hold firm our defense of she doesn't look right? Can't we at least give her the benefit of the doubt. Have you seen the reaction by the media to our pointless outbursts? Comic book fans as a whole are being labelled as racists whiners. It's the same thing that happened to John Boyega when he played a stormtrooper with Star Wars fans or trolls. Don't you think it would be a logical and more adult reaction to wait for this news to be confirmed and, if it is, wait for the performance?

wow this race thing is out of control and since am not into spiderman (he ok but not my thing) but what happen to give the person a chance.

Except this isn't diversity, it's minority pandering. Diversity would be bringing in someone like Misty Knight or Shang Chi..Taking an established character and changing them is just laziness on creative and taking the easy way out because they're "iconic."

Zendaya looks about as much like Mary Jane as Nick Cage does Superman

Does she even have the acting chops for role like Mary Jane?

@comicace3:

Nope your not gonna get off that easy buddy. That was not my argument. My argument was although these actors did not look like their comic book counterparts they still were able to portray the character in some way, shape, or form that was generally well received by the audience. And don't bring up the "bad logic" bull because honestly your reasoning is not even logic based. It's an emotional response.

The point is that just because it was well received for some people that doesn't mean that it's a consensus. Even it was an overwhelming consensus that still doesn't mean anything. That doesn't change the fact that it still isn't the same character. If you shaved Iron Man's goatee and gave him purple hair and a pink armor color scheme, it doesn't matter how good the movie or the actor was, that still isn't Iron Man to me or the true non-apologist fans.

And that is totally your opinion. But most people did like Will Smith as Deadshot even when they were unsure of his casting due to his ..."features" beforehand.

Great, and I "know" or "met" people that have the opposite opinion. What does any of this prove again?

And to Answer your question, by looks I presume you mean skin color. So in that case yes and no. I know what you're thinking but here is a reason why. Follow my logic here. She can be mixed I don't give a damn. But if she is pale as the moonlight that would not make any sense at all given she is the half sister of T'challa who is black and is from Wakanda, a place in Africa where there isn't even lick of people who don't have some melanin in their skin. It would not make sense.

Now I see your next argument basically trying to use what I said against me so here is a light contingency argument ( which I can expand on if you seem to miss my point again) just in case you try that bull. I see no problem with Zendaya being Mary Jane. Why? Because it make sense within the context of the location. New York is a very diverse place and Marvel understands that not everyone is white. So Mary Jane being half black make sense. In the comics here most notable feature is her red hair, not her skin color. So then she can dye her hair red without a problem right?

But my dude, what if an actress as "pale as the moonlight still were able to portray the character in some way, shape, or form that was generally well received by the audience"? Why are you being such a racist bigot? :)

And since you wanna play 21 questions, here is one of my own. Did you think that the casting of Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One was the right one? ( I personally didn't care tbh but I see the argument of why people have a problem with it) Should that person have been Asian? Why or Why not?

Hell yes it should have been. Before I get into my non-double standard logic about why she should be Asian like in the comics, let me take the time to point out the hilariousness in what you are trying to do here. You are essentially trying to trap me into making some illogical and "emotional" based response that proves that I am a hypocrite and then you would probably subtly or passive aggressively suggest that my stance is bigoted or something dumb like that since I "favor" a white replacement. Lol I find that pretty funny.

Anyway, I don't favor ANY replacements like that. Period. There shouldn't be any unnecessary changes to a comic character. Don't even get me started about why they do it (for the uproar, pandering, and attention), but they should always try to get it as close to the real comic character as possible. I mean as a self-admitted Iron Man fanboy, I have to admit that I would be pretty annoyed if the Mandarin was cast by Brad Pitt. It's funny though in our society that no one is considered racist when they are NOT okay with a change like that... In fact, even the dude's in charge of the movie are accused of being racist for suggesting it, let alone a nameless random dude complaining on the internet.

I didn't dodge any question I just bolded what I saw was a flaw in your logic.

The irony of a hypocrite calling my logic flawed xDDDD

That's a bit stupid to mock .

You assume you have people in some sort of gotcha.

I don't care if they whitewash characters I don't care about. The only double standard here is that you think you can criticize white people being cast yet have a problem when someone criticizes a black person being cast.

@noone1996 said: @comicace3:

The point is that just because it was well received for some people that doesn't mean that it's a consensus.

Ok?

Even it was an overwhelming consensus that still doesn't mean anything.

Yes it does. It means you were wrong to judge before the movie came out.

That doesn't change the fact that it still isn't the same character. If you shaved Iron Man's goatee and gave him purple hair and a pink armor color scheme, it doesn't matter how good the movie or the actor was, that still isn't Iron Man to me or the true non-apologist fans.

K?. Nothing much to say here. Very....actually ridiculous example but that's your opinion again.

Great, and I "know" or "met" people that have the opposite opinion. What does any of this prove again?

Why put quotation marks? what are you trying to prove? Trying to mock me using quotes because honestly you're being childish. Anyways it was a comment about your comment. Wasn't really proving anything except that in some cases the color of the skin doesn't matter if it doesn't have to do with their origin or if it makes sense so long as they are good actors.

Gif

Awww so I actually make an argument ,a very logical one and your argument is...a gif. Not impressed. Please explain how it is a double standard.

But my dude, what if an actress as "pale as the moonlight still were able to portray the character in some way, shape, or form that was generally well received by the audience"? Why are you being such a racist bigot? :)

Haha funny except that I am not. And I never said you were so don't assume that. Let's not make assumption about what each person is thinking yeah? I just created what was one of the most logical explanation to your question and your response...is a logical fallacy(ies). Congratulations.

Hell yes it should have been. Before I get into my non-double standard logic about why she should be Asian like in the comics, let me take the time to point out the hilariousness in what you are trying to do here.

Wait for it.....

You are essentially trying to trap me into making some illogical and "emotional" based response that proves that I am a hypocrite and then you would probably subtly or passive aggressively suggest that my stance is bigoted or something dumb like that since I "favor" a white replacement. Lol I find that pretty funny.

Omg you got me you're sooo smart! ( and congratulations for actually trying to make me look like the bad guy. That was not my intention at all. You're getting a bit defensive here for someone using gifs and ending things with xD and lols.)

Anyway, I don't favor ANY replacements like that. Period. There shouldn't be any unnecessary changes to a comic character. Don't even get me started about why they do it (for the uproar, pandering, and attention), but they should always try to get it as close to the real comic character as possible.

If you don't favor any replacements then....shouldn't your answer to my question be no? or am I missing something? And color her hair red. Is that close enough for you?

I mean as a self-admitted Iron Man fanboy, I have to admit that I would be pretty annoyed if the Mandarin was cast by Brad Pitt.

K. I was annoyed when he was a joke.

It's funny though in our society that no one is considered racist when they are NOT okay with a change like that... In fact, even the dude's in charge of the movie are accused of being racist for suggesting it, let alone a nameless random dude complaining on the internet.

K why you complaining to me?

The irony of a hypocrite calling my logic flawed xDDDD

That's because it is. Instead of using multiple logical fallacies ( one being you trying to undermine my argument with the use of gifs, making jokes, and I guess calling me a hypocrite (?)) Try making one that makes sense I guess. C'mon I need something more challenging than your side comments and banter. So far all I have seen you do is try to pick up the pieces of your broken argument. I provided content that makes sense and your response was a gif.

Is it?

You're taking a light hearted jab as me trying to convey a deeper more serious message. Which wasn't my intention but I'm more than willing to humor anyway.

That's fine for you, but the amount of attention you pay towards a problem has no bearing on it's significance to many others. I honestly didn't care about the casting of Avatar the Last Airbender, but I recognize why others complained about it. I can criticize an all white cast Gods of Egypt for several different reasons, as opposed to what someone else can regarding Idris Elba being Heimdall. It's not that I have a problem with people bitching about casting, I just find it humorous how people can throw a hissy fit for a supporting role being played by a minority but suddenly shut up when whitewashing is the new topic of conversation. People have a right to complain, but what people chose to complain about is sometimes interesting to say the least.

And you're argument is stupid because who the hell would think of casting a Caucasian person as a historically black character,

But we have no problem if it's the otherway around? We've seen a white person playing historically asian roles, native roles, as well as black roles etc. And people would still dislike it regardless of their acting chops. Netflix's Death Note movie is getting crap from many fans for using non japanese roles for the movie. These are "historically" japanese characters.

Zendaya could be the best MJ in the media but would we still hold firm our defense of she doesn't look right? Can't we at least give her the benefit of the doubt.

Is it unreasonable to want a good portrayal of a character both visually and acting performance? I don't think anyone thinks it is. This isn't a novel, this isn't hunger games, it's a comic book with over 40 years of history. We're given the appearance of the character from almost every single piece of media she has ever been in. She's pretty much Iconic, something like this is expected.

It's the same thing that happened to John Boyega when he played a stormtrooper with Star Wars fans or trolls.

I'm no star wars fan, but from what I hear it's has to do with Jango Fett's clones being the stormtroopers, and wouldn't mix with the continuity, but was later explained in the movie when it actually came out.

Look, I'm just gonna reply once to say that I'm done arguing. I understand your reasoning and for the record I believe that 90 - 95% of fans complaining aren't racist, they're just being overly zealous and passionate about something. I couldn't care less whether MJ is black, white, pink, blue, red an alien or whatever as long as the person who plays the role is good. I trust Marvel with their casting since they've been pretty consistent. The only reason this affects me in a small way is because everyone keeps calling Zendaya black when she's mixed. She's half white and half black meaning that she can call herself white or black if she wants. As someone who's mixed with the same sort of gene pool, I can pass as a white guy with tanned skin though that rarely works. I just thought that rather than make ourselves look like fools we could take a breather and just wait to see if a) the news is confirmed and b) what she does with the role. So, I'm sorry if I came across as offensive, I'm not implying you're racist nor did I imply the other guy is racist. It's just seeing this comic book outrage is getting tedious. We complain about others outraging and laugh at them when we do the same thing nearly every damn time.

Oh ok, I see.

Yeah, on IMDb, it says she is playing Michelle.

@depinhom: Yes. Spider-man's love interested who was in comics only for two years I think.

The bigger problem I see is Disney using a mcu movie(even though its still a Sony movie to some degree) as a stepping stone for one of their generic, clone Disney teen stars. Nothing to do with her racial affiliation or anything along those lines.

Whenever people talk about Mary Jane, I do wonder if they even know anything about her character. Mary Jane isn't your usual damsel in distress..She's not Gwen Stacy. Mary Jane's helped Spider-man save the day before like in Spider-Island or recently when she saved Iron Man and Spider-man in the Iron Spider suit. Zendaya isn't that great of an actress and when I look at her I don't see a strong female that could pull off MJ..I see a Rihanna wannabe who was cast so that Marvel could pull their pandering again. A majority of those supporting Zendaya don't even know who she is.

Annie, Fantastic Four, Ghostbusters, and so on..How many films need to fail before people see that making these PC changes hurts the film more than it helps it

@manmadeofketchup: What you're not realizing is that this is a Spider-Man origin story, Mary Jane has done those things much later when they were adults but as high school kids none of that was a part of her character. She's literally just a sassy yet kind hearted teenager that Peter fell head over heels for, the kind of role Zendaya has a lot of experience with. People will complain about casting for any movie, but until the movie comes you, me or anybody else can't say for certain whether someone's going to do a good job or not. A lot of people said the same thing about Affleck playing Batman and were pleasantly surprised with his performance.

The fact that you call her a Rihanna wannabe shows that you either don't know much about her either, or you don't know much about Rihanna sans the color of her skin. They have literally nothing in common past that.

I can't speak for Annie and Ghostbusters since I didn't see either of them but Fantastic Four failed because of the abysmal writing and poor performances altogether, not because of Michael B. Jordan (who was probably the truest to the comicbook Torch). Will Smith being Deadshot didn't hurt Suicide Squad anymore than Jesse Eisenburg being Lex Luthor. I'm more concerned about a person's ability to play a character well as opposed to their ethnicity. Mary Jane being Caucasian has nothing to do with her characterization.

I just can't seem to care about this kind of stuff. Maybe If comicbook movies were actually adaptations I might mind, but they're just not to me . . . in the traditional sense at least. Unlike other adaption platform Everything in comicbook movie seem subject to change; a character's backstory, motivation, costume, hair color and physical stature are all allowed to be changed with out being inherently met with anger, so why should I care about this change?

I think it's all about feeling. I mean, take Jackson's Wolverine. Hugh is 6'1, slender frame, not an once hair on his body, and conventionally hansome. That's literally the physical opposite of Logan's 5'3 height, wide body, "gruff" to put it nicely face, and borderline ape levels of hair, but ince he starts playing who cares about those differences, about the fact that the only thing he has in common with Logan on set is a common hair style. Because he plays the character well.

I guess this is a long winded and bloated way let's wait to see if she can play the character or not. Hell, lets wait and see if she's even confirmed for the role.

Deeper message!? that is genuine entitlement of the negative kind right there. You seem to have missed the point, how significant you consider something comes a distant second to what I want, when I voice what I want.

I am sure there are some coherent and inoffensive people who criticized the casting of Idris based on his color and the color of the original characters, yet here you are saying you don't have a problem, but then use the terms bitching and Hissy Fit to cast a blanket dismissal rather than just say I preferred him because I prefer black characters or maybe you just like Idris Elba and that's why you disagree with them.

I agree people have a right to complain, that would have been something I would have said often on these boards, you can want whatever you want, I just have a problem with people who have got it in there head that what they want is more important than what I want in a product that I will pay for because of American social reasons. So you shouldn't expect me to care about whitewashing unless I happen to care about that character or if someone know cares about that character.

In a world where both Batman and Superman are murdering, detestable assholes in a movie, Zendaya can be Mary Jane.

In a world where a black guy can play a Norse God (and have his talent wasted), an attractive actress of mixed ethnicity can be Mary Jane.

We get it, we all get it. It's nice to have a Chris Evans where the actor looks and acts exactly like the character from the comic, but the chances of that happening are slim. As long as they don't Jesse Eisenberg up her character, she'll be fine.

@wrucebayne:

In a world where both Batman and Superman are murdering, detestable assholes in a movie,

and it sucked that it happened.

Zendaya can be Mary Jane.

she shouldn't be

In a world where a black guy can play a Norse God (and have his talent wasted),

and it was dumb and shouldn't have happened

an attractive actress of mixed ethnicity can be Mary Jane.

She should only be like the character

We get it, we all get it. It's nice to have a Chris Evans where the actor looks and acts exactly like the character from the comic,

Do you get it really? If you did you wouldn't be taking the side you are. Unless you just don't care.

Anyway for the record in opinion he doesn't actually but it's close enough he can fake it mostly. As it should be

but the chances of that happening are slim.

It shouldn't be. It's not actually that hard to find a good actress that looks that part. It's a big movie many many many people would kill for the role.

As long as they don't Jesse Eisenberg up her character, she'll be fine.

Not it's not. Just because something dumb has happened before doesn't suddenly make doing it again any less dumb. Also just because something might be worse it doesn't mean the less bad thing isn't also dumb.

Just gonna post this here that explains a lot

I've seen hundreds of these types of discussions and have yet to see a good reason why this is not a bad thing. I get it doesn't matter to you. That I can accept but don't tell feed us a line of bull.

Also don't tell us we should just get over it, shouldn't speak out, or try to paint where we are coming from as something else.

@dernman: I'm not taking sides. It'd be nice to have actors that look and act like their counterparts, but it's not going to happen and these movies are made for the masses. Hell, I dont like Amy Adams as Lois Lane, partly because she looks nothing like Lois, but mostly because Snyder doesn't know wtf to do with her. I get it, I've shared the same sentiment before, but there are bigger fish to fry, and it's easier to not get worked up over it.

It actually doesn't. I've watched that vid before and like most things I've seen from him it's just one narrow point of view from a biased narrative perspective but you know Dwayne MCDuffie he's held up as this wise man not to be questioned. It's been awhile since I've watched this so I don't even think he mentions this particular subject. Again someone is getting confused with race issues when that is only one part of it. Ignoring where we've compared similar situations of people of the same race or sex not looking like the character being bad. :/

It's certainly not going to happen if people keep quiet over it. THe only way to make them know there is a problem is to do something about it. Who knows it might stop one or at least make the situation not get worse. It's not like main characters are not exempt from change either or haven't been changed. It hurts the movie for me. Great that you can look past it but it's still something that bothers me and many others. Keeping quiet isn't the answer for us. It's a sore spot every time it happens.

Also lets be honest here. ya we complain and bitch but the only time we really get worked up is when people either hand us a line of bull reason that it doesn't matter, telling us to get over it, or trying to make where we are coming from something it's not.

Edit: You know what else? It make me feel better when I point out that it's dumb, see someone who feels the same way and know it does the same for them. Even if everything else I said wasn't enough this would be.