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#51 Posted by silkyballfro94 (7572 posts) - - Show Bio

I can sense lots of tension in this thread.....

IN B4 THE LOCK!?!!!!!!!!

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#52 Edited by RulerOfThisUniverse (6518 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron: Seriously? I usually try not to join in on political threads, but seriously? All you got out of that post was that one terrorist comment? And then continue on about Democrats, who he clearly said he wasn't talking about?

*facepalm*

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#53 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

@armiv2 said:

I'm seeing both parties as guilty here, and anyone so willing to jump on the other side for completely screwing things up really isn't helping. What caused this shutdown? People not being able to agree on something?

Imagine you have a child, and somehow that child gets a say on whether you pay the rent. Then your child says "I want some candy, or else I wont approve paying the rent this month". You say, "No, I'm not giving you candy". Result: You cant convince your child through logic that you need to pay the rent, and the rent doesnt get paid.

You could say that "both parties are guilty", but if you "negotiated" with your child all it'd mean is that now he/she gets whatever he/she wants every month when it's time to pay the rent. They extorted you and you gave in.

No, there's one party at fault here.

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#54 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

@hammertron: Because your guys scoured every page of it for anything they could use and they wish there was something as good as death panels. Seriously dude, have you read every act of legislation passed through congress? Why did you post that question twice, it didn't deserve to be asked once. How do I know this isn't a job killer? The idealistic Republican laissez faire economy would lead to jobs for everyone in America, but at the fine rate of 25 cents an hour for your 14 hour shifts. As that's not happening, your goal recently has been cling to the trickle down card, that mystical angel that everyone hears about but no one ever sees in reality. At this point, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're just here to troll as you've done nothing but spout out irrelevant questions but done absolutely nothing to provide any sort of counter argument. Read up on the situation before you post back here.

Why would Republicans wish for "death panels"?

Who are you to decide which questions deserve to be asked?

How do you know that Republicans want 14 hours a day work shifts?

Because of obamacare many companies will reduce workers' hours to less than 30 hours a week. To make a living workers will need two part time jobs to make ends meet. Now, instead of having one nice full time job at 40 hours a week people need to have two or more part time jobs adding up to more than 50 hours a week because part time jobs don't pay at the same rate as full time jobs do.

Again, how do you know that obamacare isn't a job killer?

Are you sure you are knowledgeable about this topic?

Do you really know what obamacare is about?

Do you really know how politics work?

Why don't you study more about the situation before you spout your thoughts?

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#55 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4172 posts) - - Show Bio

So the House, controlled by Republicans, passes a budget that keeps government running, but suspends implementation of the ACA doesn't pass the Senate, controlled by Democrats, and even if it did pass the Senate the White House, Obama, would have vetoed the budget leads to a government shut down and its Republicans faults?

Seems legit.

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#56 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron said:

Did you actually read every page of obamacare?

How do you know there aren't "death panels"?

Is it possible that synonymous terms were used to describe the same situation that "death panels" describes?

How do you know this isn't a "job killer"?

Did you actually read every page of obamacare?

You are hopeless. Continue to think whatever you want. And, BTW, asking the same thing twice does NOT make it more likely that I will answer it... especially when it's a completely inane question.

I would like to know what you base your opinion on because it certainly isn't based on any facts.

Why don't you research the issue to understand what is happening?

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#57 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

@hammertron: Because your guys scoured every page of it for anything they could use and they wish there was something as good as death panels. Seriously dude, have you read every act of legislation passed through congress? Why did you post that question twice, it didn't deserve to be asked once. How do I know this isn't a job killer? The idealistic Republican laissez faire economy would lead to jobs for everyone in America, but at the fine rate of 25 cents an hour for your 14 hour shifts. As that's not happening, your goal recently has been cling to the trickle down card, that mystical angel that everyone hears about but no one ever sees in reality. At this point, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're just here to troll as you've done nothing but spout out irrelevant questions but done absolutely nothing to provide any sort of counter argument. Read up on the situation before you post back here.

Why would Republicans wish for "death panels"?

Who are you to decide which questions deserve to be asked?

How do you know that Republicans want 14 hours a day work shifts?

Because of obamacare many companies will reduce workers' hours to less than 30 hours a week. To make a living workers will need two part time jobs to make ends meet. Now, instead of having one nice full time job at 40 hours a week people need to have two or more part time jobs adding up to more than 50 hours a week because part time jobs don't pay at the same rate as full time jobs do.

Again, how do you know that obamacare isn't a job killer?

Are you sure you are knowledgeable about this topic?

Do you really know what obamacare is about?

Do you really know how politics work?

Why don't you study more about the situation before you spout your thoughts?

You seem to have many questions. Maybe you're the one who needs to study more about the situation before posting.

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#58 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron: Seriously? I usually try not to join in on political threads, but seriously? All you got out of that post was that one terrorist comment? And then continue on about Democrats, who he clearly said he wasn't talking about?

*facepalm*

In this situation how is it possible to talk about Republicans and not Democrats?

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#59 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

So the House, controlled by Republicans, passes a budget that keeps government running, but suspends implementation of the ACA doesn't pass the Senate, controlled by Democrats, and even if it did pass the Senate the White House, Obama, would have vetoed the budget leads to a government shut down and its Republicans faults?

Seems legit.

Yes, it is the Republicans fault because that's not what a budget bill is for. If the minority party got to refuse to fund the government every time they want to keep funding from a specific program, the entire government would quickly collapse.

I already said it, but I guess I have to say it again. Obama ran on this plan, it was passed by both houses of Congress, and it was declared Constitutional by the Supreme Court. It IS THE LAW. That means that if the Republicans or the Tea Party want to get rid of it, they need to bring it up for discussion and vote on it like any other thing in Congress.

Obama is right in not negotiating over this, because it'd mean that any minority party in Congress would have a de facto line item veto over anything it wants. It is extortion, simple as that.

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#60 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@armiv2 said:

I'm seeing both parties as guilty here, and anyone so willing to jump on the other side for completely screwing things up really isn't helping. What caused this shutdown? People not being able to agree on something?

Imagine you have a child, and somehow that child gets a say on whether you pay the rent. Then your child says "I want some candy, or else I wont approve paying the rent this month". You say, "No, I'm not giving you candy". Result: You cant convince your child through logic that you need to pay the rent, and the rent doesnt get paid.

You could say that "both parties are guilty", but if you "negotiated" with your child all it'd mean is that now he/she gets whatever he/she wants every month when it's time to pay the rent. They extorted you and you gave in.

No, there's one party at fault here.

What?

The child wanting candy represents the Democrats wanting obamacare, right?

The Republicans just approved a bill to continue funding the government. The Democrats were throwing a temper tantrum because they weren't getting their way.

Could it be that you actually believe that the democrats are the problem here?

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#61 Edited by RulerOfThisUniverse (6518 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron: Maybe because he specifically said "I didn't say anything about the Democrats. They have their own issues" directly before your response?

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#62 Posted by Enemybird (4287 posts) - - Show Bio

So the government is shut down? Doesn't that mean like... you guys can do whatever you want!? lol jk

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#63 Edited by kidman560 (7636 posts) - - Show Bio

wow, just wow. Boy am I glad that I don't live in the U.S.

QFT

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#64 Posted by kidman560 (7636 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: right Republicans are to blame like Jodi Foster is to blame for the shooting of Reagan

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#65 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron said:

@hecktate said:

@hammertron: Because your guys scoured every page of it for anything they could use and they wish there was something as good as death panels. Seriously dude, have you read every act of legislation passed through congress? Why did you post that question twice, it didn't deserve to be asked once. How do I know this isn't a job killer? The idealistic Republican laissez faire economy would lead to jobs for everyone in America, but at the fine rate of 25 cents an hour for your 14 hour shifts. As that's not happening, your goal recently has been cling to the trickle down card, that mystical angel that everyone hears about but no one ever sees in reality. At this point, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're just here to troll as you've done nothing but spout out irrelevant questions but done absolutely nothing to provide any sort of counter argument. Read up on the situation before you post back here.

Why would Republicans wish for "death panels"?

Who are you to decide which questions deserve to be asked?

How do you know that Republicans want 14 hours a day work shifts?

Because of obamacare many companies will reduce workers' hours to less than 30 hours a week. To make a living workers will need two part time jobs to make ends meet. Now, instead of having one nice full time job at 40 hours a week people need to have two or more part time jobs adding up to more than 50 hours a week because part time jobs don't pay at the same rate as full time jobs do.

Again, how do you know that obamacare isn't a job killer?

Are you sure you are knowledgeable about this topic?

Do you really know what obamacare is about?

Do you really know how politics work?

Why don't you study more about the situation before you spout your thoughts?

You seem to have many questions. Maybe you're the one who needs to study more about the situation before posting.

Why can't you answer the questions?

Could it be that you are not familiar enough with the situation to give relevant answers?

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#66 Edited by RulerOfThisUniverse (6518 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron: Or he's not answering because you've repeatedly asked them the same questions over and over instead of arguing with their points?

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#67 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

The Republicans just approved a bill to continue funding the government.

No, the Republicans approved a bill to fund the government except for Obamacare, which is a law that was lawfully passed by Congress, signed by the President, and ruled on by the Supreme Court as Constitutional.

By trying to de-fund it they're trying to get their way even after they failed to get their way. And, unfortunately for everyone who relies on a government service or job, if they dont get their way they decided to refuse to fund the government.

And, BTW, what would happen if Obama gave in to them? Well, then Obamacare wouldnt be implemented, but it certainly wouldnt stop the Republicans from claiming that it was a failure, would it? But, how disingenuous is it to claim that something is a failure, when it was your fault in the first place that it was a failure? Not only that, but now the Republicans would be able to get whatever they want, simply by holding the government hostage every time something needs to be funded.

I dont always agree with Obama. In fact, there have been a lot of things I disagree with him on. But, I fully support not negotiating with extortionists who would rather see the government shut down than get their way solely for political reasons.

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#68 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron: Or he's not answering because you've repeatedly asked them the same questions over and over instead of arguing with their points?

Typical troll rhetorical tactic. Just keep asking inane questions over and over. When someone replies, just keep asking more. Same as in any debate... if you ask enough stupid questions and make enough ridiculous claims, the other person gets swamped trying to address them.

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#69 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@nova_prime_ said:

So the House, controlled by Republicans, passes a budget that keeps government running, but suspends implementation of the ACA doesn't pass the Senate, controlled by Democrats, and even if it did pass the Senate the White House, Obama, would have vetoed the budget leads to a government shut down and its Republicans faults?

Seems legit.

Yes, it is the Republicans fault because that's not what a budget bill is for. If the minority party got to refuse to fund the government every time they want to keep funding from a specific program, the entire government would quickly collapse.

I already said it, but I guess I have to say it again. Obama ran on this plan, it was passed by both houses of Congress, and it was declared Constitutional by the Supreme Court. It IS THE LAW. That means that if the Republicans or the Tea Party want to get rid of it, they need to bring it up for discussion and vote on it like any other thing in Congress.

Obama is right in not negotiating over this, because it'd mean that any minority party in Congress would have a de facto line item veto over anything it wants. It is extortion, simple as that.

Why can't the Democrats pass the bill in the senate that the Republicans passed in the House?

Why can't the Democrats sign the bill into law instead of threatening to veto it?

Why do the Democrats want to shut down the government?

Why couldn't the Democrats discuss obamacare before passing it?

"We have to pass the bill to see what's in it." - Nancy Pelosi, Democrat.

Again, why couldn't the Democrats discuss obamacare before passing it?

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#70 Edited by Nova`Prime` (4172 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

@nova_prime_ said:

So the House, controlled by Republicans, passes a budget that keeps government running, but suspends implementation of the ACA doesn't pass the Senate, controlled by Democrats, and even if it did pass the Senate the White House, Obama, would have vetoed the budget leads to a government shut down and its Republicans faults?

Seems legit.

Yes, it is the Republicans fault because that's not what a budget bill is for. If the minority party got to refuse to fund the government every time they want to keep funding from a specific program, the entire government would quickly collapse.

I already said it, but I guess I have to say it again. Obama ran on this plan, it was passed by both houses of Congress, and it was declared Constitutional by the Supreme Court. It IS THE LAW. That means that if the Republicans or the Tea Party want to get rid of it, they need to bring it up for discussion and vote on it like any other thing in Congress.

Obama is right in not negotiating over this, because it'd mean that any minority party in Congress would have a de facto line item veto over anything it wants. It is extortion, simple as that.

Far enough. So if it is THE LAW then why is Congress exempt from it? Why are certain government employees? Why are certain corporations and unions exempt? If it is a law shouldn't everyone be held accountable to it equally? Or should only we mere mortals be held accountable to the laws our Masters deem fit for us? Also the original budget proposal wasn't looking to get rid of ACA it was looking to suspend it, just like they did for certain corporations and unions. But that's alright keep playing the blame game. Democrats blame republicans, republicans blame democrats, its good to know that you can play the game.

I am sorry they aren't exempt just treated differently when it comes to actually purchasing their insurance.

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#71 Edited by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron said:

The Republicans just approved a bill to continue funding the government.

No, the Republicans approved a bill to fund the government except for Obamacare, which is a law that was lawfully passed by Congress, signed by the President, and ruled on by the Supreme Court as Constitutional.

By trying to de-fund it they're trying to get their way even after they failed to get their way. And, unfortunately for everyone who relies on a government service or job, if they dont get their way they decided to refuse to fund the government.

And, BTW, what would happen if Obama gave in to them? Well, then Obamacare wouldnt be implemented, but it certainly wouldnt stop the Republicans from claiming that it was a failure, would it? But, how disingenuous is it to claim that something is a failure, when it was your fault in the first place that it was a failure? Not only that, but now the Republicans would be able to get whatever they want, simply by holding the government hostage every time something needs to be funded.

I dont always agree with Obama. In fact, there have been a lot of things I disagree with him on. But, I fully support not negotiating with extortionists who would rather see the government shut down than get their way solely for political reasons.

Why should the Republicans fund something that wasn't properly discussed in the first place?

"We have to pass the bill in order to see what's in it." - Nancy Pelosi, Democrat.

When was obamacare properly discussed and passed?

Didn't that happen when the Democrats had control over the House of Representatives and the Senate?

Isn't that what led to the Republicans winning control of the House of Representatives?

Isn't that why the American people are so angry with the Democrats?

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#72 Posted by lesterlawton (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

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#73 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

Far enough. So if it is THE LAW then why is Congress exempt from it? Why are certain government employees? Why are certain corporations and unions exempt? If it is a law shouldn't everyone be held accountable to it equally? Or should only we mere mortals be held accountable to the laws our Masters deem fit for us? Also the original budget proposal wasn't looking to get rid of ACA it was looking to suspend it, just like they did for certain corporations and unions. But that's alright keep playing the blame game. Democrats blame republicans, republicans blame democrats, its good to know that you can play the game.

I am sorry they aren't exempt just treated differently when it comes to actually purchasing their insurance.

Not sure what you mean by "why is Congress exempt". They're not as far as I know. They already have health insurance, so they have to do nothing... just like anyone else who already has health insurance.

There were some exemptions that Obama made for the first year, but it's not uncommon that a program is modified in some way when it's first starting.

Not sure who you're calling "our Masters", but it implies that you'e biased and not willing to be unbiased and fair. Why would I spend time replying if this is true?

"Suspending" the ACA is basically like getting rid of it. It's like if I ask the mods to "suspend" your account indefinitely. How is that different from me asking them to get rid of it?

Yes, both parties play the blame game. But, that doesnt mean that in this case one party isnt more to blame than another.

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#74 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@nova_prime_ said:

Far enough. So if it is THE LAW then why is Congress exempt from it? Why are certain government employees? Why are certain corporations and unions exempt? If it is a law shouldn't everyone be held accountable to it equally? Or should only we mere mortals be held accountable to the laws our Masters deem fit for us? Also the original budget proposal wasn't looking to get rid of ACA it was looking to suspend it, just like they did for certain corporations and unions. But that's alright keep playing the blame game. Democrats blame republicans, republicans blame democrats, its good to know that you can play the game.

I am sorry they aren't exempt just treated differently when it comes to actually purchasing their insurance.

Not sure what you mean by "why is Congress exempt". They're not as far as I know. They already have health insurance, so they have to do nothing... just like anyone else who already has health insurance.

There were some exemptions that Obama made for the first year, but it's not uncommon that a program is modified in some way when it's first starting.

Not sure who you're calling "our Masters", but it implies that you'e biased and not willing to be unbiased and fair. Why would I spend time replying if this is true?

"Suspending" the ACA is basically like getting rid of it. It's like if I ask the mods to "suspend" your account indefinitely. How is that different from me asking them to get rid of it?

Yes, both parties play the blame game. But, that doesnt mean that in this case one party isnt more to blame than another.

Why are there exemptions for some companies that don't want to provide healthcare coverage for their employees?

How can the American people decide they don't want to provide healthcare for members of congress, the executive branch, and judicial branch?

Can the American people decide the people of the three branches of government should be forced to go to the "exchanges" of obamacare like the American citizens?

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#75 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

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#76 Posted by Saren (27534 posts) - - Show Bio

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Is there a reason you're only speaking in questions?

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#77 Edited by _Zombie_ (10572 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait for the debate over the debt ceiling. Gonna be a debacle, to say the least.

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#78 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Is there a reason you're only speaking in questions?

How do you know that the blame does not lie with Democrats?

Why are Democrats so determined to have obamacare when it is clear that the American people don't want it?

Did you realize that by me asking questions that you and others will think more deeply about your beliefs and actually open your minds to other possibilities?

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#79 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Indeed.

Fun Fact: The House Republicans have tried over 40 times to repeal Obamacare.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/27/2533681/house-republicans-obamacare-repeal-votes/

They keep wasting time doing this (15% of their time), even though they know full well that there's zero chance that it'd pass in the Senate or that Obama would approve it. They are actively not just wanting time in Congress, but also wasting money. It's no wonder that they are the worst, most ineffective, and most disliked Congress in the history of the United States.

And today, when they passed the bill to fund the government without Obamacare, again it was a waste of time because they also knew that with 100% certainly the Senate would reject it.

They only thing they seem to hate more than Obamacare is abortion, which they constantly try to pass bills banning... including trying to attach anti-abortion provisions to the debt ceiling bills.

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#80 Edited by Bogey (1022 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to celebrate.

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#81 Edited by Saren (27534 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Is there a reason you're only speaking in questions?

How do you know that the blame does not lie with Democrats?

Why are Democrats so determined to have obamacare when it is clear that the American people don't want it?

Did you realize that by me asking questions that you and others will think more deeply about your beliefs and actually open your minds to other possibilities?

The idea that you're just asking questions is nice in theory, but all you're doing is asking questions that imply their own answer; specifically, the answer you have in mind. Did you realize that, or were you already aware that your questions merely push an agenda under the guise of innocuous curiosity? Come on, son. If you want to take an ideological standpoint, take it. Don't dither about and pretend to serve as an arbiter of balance. It's tiring.

It is not "clear" that the American people don't want anything. Every bit of polling and research you could possibly quote has a counterpart from the other end of the spectrum that says more or less the opposite. The Affordable Care Act was ratified and signed into law with the aim of insuring millions of people who couldn't afford a basic human amenity. The latest Republican conception of how to stall the ACA. one they just introduced, is to slip in a clause that prevents women from being able to acquire birth control pills under their company health coverage unless their employer ---- who's going to be a man, 98% of the time ---- approves of it and has no "religious objections". Setting aside the fact that the clause is humiliating and disrespectful to women in general, it's also little more than pandering to the interests of groups who want to force their religious beliefs on the rest of the nation. You know why people say the Republicans are waging a war on women? It's because they are. If women object to the "conscience clause" and say they're entitled to the birth control pills, you can count on some GOP representative to be caught on a sound bite explaining that if women could just stop being such wanton sluts and have less sex, they'd see that they don't really need birth control pills. What about women who want to avoid pregnancies that arise out of rape or other forms of abuse? What about women who take birth control pills to avoid the pain and irritation of menstruation? What about women with physiological damage to their ovaries? What about all the women who take birth control pills for issues unrelated to their sexual activity?

I ken do leading questionz 2, so here's one for you: do you think people's lives and their right to autonomy over their bodies should be subject to whims like this? To what extent do you feel I should blame Democrats for the conscience clause?

Politics isn't a game where one side has to beat the other. It's supposed to be a cooperative effort for a collective good. Holding a nation hostage so that you can get your way? Americans should feel insulted.

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#82 Posted by Nerd Of A Hero (1162 posts) - - Show Bio

*Yawn*

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#83 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Indeed.

Fun Fact: The House Republicans have tried over 40 times to repeal Obamacare.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/27/2533681/house-republicans-obamacare-repeal-votes/

They keep wasting time doing this (15% of their time), even though they know full well that there's zero chance that it'd pass in the Senate or that Obama would approve it. They are actively not just wanting time in Congress, but also wasting money. It's no wonder that they are the worst, most ineffective, and most disliked Congress in the history of the United States.

And today, when they passed the bill to fund the government without Obamacare, again it was a waste of time because they also knew that with 100% certainly the Senate would reject it.

They only thing they seem to hate more than Obamacare is abortion, which they constantly try to pass bills banning... including trying to attach anti-abortion provisions to the debt ceiling bills.

Is it the Republicans' responsibility to only do things that Democrats want?

Is That what you think politics in America is about?

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#84 Edited by Saren (27534 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:
@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Indeed.

Fun Fact: The House Republicans have tried over 40 times to repeal Obamacare.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/27/2533681/house-republicans-obamacare-repeal-votes/

They keep wasting time doing this (15% of their time), even though they know full well that there's zero chance that it'd pass in the Senate or that Obama would approve it. They are actively not just wanting time in Congress, but also wasting money. It's no wonder that they are the worst, most ineffective, and most disliked Congress in the history of the United States.

And today, when they passed the bill to fund the government without Obamacare, again it was a waste of time because they also knew that with 100% certainly the Senate would reject it.

They only thing they seem to hate more than Obamacare is abortion, which they constantly try to pass bills banning... including trying to attach anti-abortion provisions to the debt ceiling bills.

Is it the Republicans' responsibility to only do things that Democrats want?

Is That what you think politics in America is about?

No, politics in America is clearly about flushing taxpayer dollars down the toilet on measures and initiatives that you're fully aware are destined to fail. Good grief.

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#85 Posted by King Saturn (220879 posts) - - Show Bio

I think both parties are to blame here... because of this it's clear that both the Democrats and Republicans suck because they can not find a way to compromise and are willing to destroy the economy in doing so. Yet they will still get their paychecks... I guess The Devil really is God. Because if God was good, Why does he constantly let the Evil and Corrupt reign over Everything ?

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#86 Posted by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron said:

@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Is there a reason you're only speaking in questions?

How do you know that the blame does not lie with Democrats?

Why are Democrats so determined to have obamacare when it is clear that the American people don't want it?

Did you realize that by me asking questions that you and others will think more deeply about your beliefs and actually open your minds to other possibilities?

The idea that you're just asking questions is nice in theory, but all you're doing is asking questions that imply their own answer; specifically, the answer you have in mind. Did you realize that, or were you already aware that your questions merely push an agenda under the guise of innocuous curiosity? Come on, son. If you want to take an ideological standpoint, take it. Don't dither about and pretend to serve as an arbiter of balance. It's tiring.

It is not "clear" that the American people don't want anything. Every bit of polling and research you could possibly quote has a counterpart from the other end of the spectrum that says more or less the opposite. The Affordable Care Act was ratified and signed into law with the aim of insuring millions of people who couldn't afford a basic human amenity. The latest Republican conception of how to stall the ACA. one they just introduced, is to slip in a clause that prevents women from being able to acquire birth control pills under their company health coverage unless their employer ---- who's going to be a man, 98% of the time ---- approves of it and has no "religious objections". Setting aside the fact that the clause is humiliating and disrespectful to women in general, it's also little more than pandering to the interests of groups who want to force their religious beliefs on the rest of the nation. You know why people say the Republicans are waging a war on women? It's because they are. If women object to the "conscience clause" and say they're entitled to the birth control pills, you can count on some GOP representative to be caught on a sound bite explaining that if women could just stop being such wanton sluts and have less sex, they'd see that they don't really need birth control pills. What about women who want to avoid pregnancies that arise out of rape or other forms of abuse? What about women who take birth control pills to avoid the pain and irritation of menstruation? What about women with physiological damage to their ovaries? What about all the women who take birth control pills for issues unrelated to their sexual activity?

I ken do leading questionz 2, so here's one for you: do you think people's lives and their right to autonomy over their bodies should be subject to whims like this? To what extent do you feel I should blame Democrats for the conscience clause?

Politics isn't a game where one side has to beat the other. It's supposed to be a cooperative effort for a collective good. Holding a nation hostage so that you can get your way? Americans should feel insulted.

Nice question.

Do you think people's lives and their right to autonomy over their bodies should be subject to whims of other people?

Let's take this further.

Do you think people should be forced to pay for others' healthcare? Do you think young and healthy people should be forced to pay higher premiums than older and sicker people?

Do you think that all men should have to pay for all women's birth control pills? Isn't that forcing men to take responsibility for the choices made by women that they don't even know?

Do you really think that the Democrats in the senate refusing to pass the bill sent to them by House Republicans was an example of a cooperative effort for a collective good?

Do you really think that obama promising to veto anything other than what he wants is a sign of cooperation?

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#87 Edited by TronHammer (835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron said:

@willpayton said:
@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Indeed.

Fun Fact: The House Republicans have tried over 40 times to repeal Obamacare.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/27/2533681/house-republicans-obamacare-repeal-votes/

They keep wasting time doing this (15% of their time), even though they know full well that there's zero chance that it'd pass in the Senate or that Obama would approve it. They are actively not just wanting time in Congress, but also wasting money. It's no wonder that they are the worst, most ineffective, and most disliked Congress in the history of the United States.

And today, when they passed the bill to fund the government without Obamacare, again it was a waste of time because they also knew that with 100% certainly the Senate would reject it.

They only thing they seem to hate more than Obamacare is abortion, which they constantly try to pass bills banning... including trying to attach anti-abortion provisions to the debt ceiling bills.

Is it the Republicans' responsibility to only do things that Democrats want?

Is That what you think politics in America is about?

No, politics in America is clearly about flushing taxpayer dollars down the toilet on measures and initiatives that you're fully aware are destined to fail. Good grief.

The Republicans and the American people know that obamacare is a failure.

What other reason is there for the Republicans to cut funding for such a failure?

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#88 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29887 posts) - - Show Bio

Neat.

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#89 Posted by muhabba (368 posts) - - Show Bio

Woo Hoo! Government is shut down! I'm off to my torrents!

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#90 Edited by Saren (27534 posts) - - Show Bio

@hammertron said:

Nice question.

Do you think people's lives and their right to autonomy over their bodies should be subject to whims of other people?

Let's take this further.

Do you think people should be forced to pay for others' healthcare? Do you think young and healthy people should be forced to pay higher premiums than older and sicker people?

Do you think that all men should have to pay for all women's birth control pills? Isn't that forcing men to take responsibility for the choices made by women that they don't even know?

Do you really think that the Democrats in the senate refusing to pass the bill sent to them by House Republicans was an example of a cooperative effort for a collective good?

Do you really think that obama promising to veto anything other than what he wants is a sign of cooperation?

I tried. No one can say I didn't. Anyways:

The idea that people should cough up for the general good isn't new. It's been around for a long time. Nations literally cannot run without it. The higher-premiums argument is misinformed. Premiums are higher in comparison to regular insurance schemes because the regular ones typically don't cover healthcare needs that have become more and more essential, like name-brand drugs, maternity healthcare and mental health. The ACA requires that all of these things and more be covered. Young and healthy people paying higher premiums than older and sicker people is basic human decency. The young and the healthy are typically in a better position to pay their premiums than the elderly and infirm. Ask someone whose 73 year old grandmother is bedridden with Alzheimer's if they want their primary worry to be their inability to take care of her because premiums for the elderly are so high.

Try being a woman for a while and then give me some thoughts on responsibility and duty. Men aren't being forced to cover birth control pills any more than they are being forced to pay for community centers or parks or any of a hundred other publicly funded initiatives. Religious considerations should not have a place in legislation. The Founding Fathers didn't think so, and given how much they like to invoke those names, I'm surprised that the GOP does think so.

The bill that was sent to them was abject nonsense, so yeah, they were doing the country a favor by sending it back. I do not understand how anyone could fail to see the inherent silliness in the GOP's tactics. The issue at hand. the one that shut the government down, pertains to the essential duty of elected representatives to keep the gears of government functioning. The Republicans decided "But what about the whores?!?" was the more relevant topic at hand. And it's not like this is the first time this idiocy has happened. Last year, the GOP tried (and failed) to amend a bill with the so-called Blunt amendment that would perform the same function as the "conscience clause". You know what the bill was about? Funding highway construction. It had literally nothing to do with healthcare at all. The whores are having so much unmarried sex that discussions relating to infrastructure development, building roads for Christ's sake, must take second place to the real issue, which is birth control. So tell me, is that your idea of an effort for a collective good?

Again, he vetoes nonsense. Take a look at the clauses that have been suggested and then tell me that rubbish deserves to see the light of day.

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#91 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

The Republicans and the American people know that obamacare is a failure.

What other reason is there for the Republicans to cut funding for such a failure?

I appreciate you posting on this thread. It gives people here a good example of the type of person that supports what the Republicans are doing. Please, continue to troll and generally make an nuisance of yourself.

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#92 Edited by Saren (27534 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@willpayton said:
@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Indeed.

Fun Fact: The House Republicans have tried over 40 times to repeal Obamacare.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/27/2533681/house-republicans-obamacare-repeal-votes/

They keep wasting time doing this (15% of their time), even though they know full well that there's zero chance that it'd pass in the Senate or that Obama would approve it. They are actively not just wanting time in Congress, but also wasting money. It's no wonder that they are the worst, most ineffective, and most disliked Congress in the history of the United States.

And today, when they passed the bill to fund the government without Obamacare, again it was a waste of time because they also knew that with 100% certainly the Senate would reject it.

They only thing they seem to hate more than Obamacare is abortion, which they constantly try to pass bills banning... including trying to attach anti-abortion provisions to the debt ceiling bills.

Is it the Republicans' responsibility to only do things that Democrats want?

Is That what you think politics in America is about?

No, politics in America is clearly about flushing taxpayer dollars down the toilet on measures and initiatives that you're fully aware are destined to fail. Good grief.

The Republicans and the American people know that obamacare is a failure.

What other reason is there for the Republicans to cut funding for such a failure?

LOL.

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#93 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5731 posts) - - Show Bio

Must...keep...mouth...shut...

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#94 Posted by tikhunt (896 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

Let's not fool ourselves. Everyone in an office is willing to damage our economy and shut down the government for political gain.

Don't trust anybody. Ever. They can see us.

Excuse me while I finish my Tinfoil Hat 2.0.

Mine's compatible with my computer, just stick it on the monitor and BAM! No more NSA.

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#95 Posted by willpayton (18228 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

Let's not fool ourselves. Everyone in an office is willing to damage our economy and shut down the government for political gain.

Don't trust anybody. Ever. They can see us.

Excuse me while I finish my Tinfoil Hat 2.0.

Tinfoil hat... only? Dude, the satellites will spot you in a microsecond if that's all you got. You need a tinfoil hat (or helmet), vest, and if possible also wrap all your weapons in tin foil.

Here's me with my tinfoil gear:

No Caption Provided

Jealous? And, BTW, you cant see it in the pic, but I also wear tinfoil underwear... you cant be too careful.

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#96 Posted by HeckTate (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@citizenbane said:

@hammertron said:

@lesterlawton said:

I've found that most people screaming "Repeal Obamacare", really don't know much about it other than the fact that other people are screaming it. In regards to the government shutdown, I believe that everyone directly involved should be fired, just like any other employee that fails at their job.

Haven't you also found that people blame Republicans just because they are told to do so by other people and the media?

Why is that?

Not really. People blame the Republicans because that's where the blame lies. They've been obsessed with trying to repeal Obamacare for the most half-arsed reasons imaginable since its inception, and they pulled the same stunt with the debt ceiling debate.

Is there a reason you're only speaking in questions?

How do you know that the blame does not lie with Democrats?

Why are Democrats so determined to have obamacare when it is clear that the American people don't want it?

Did you realize that by me asking questions that you and others will think more deeply about your beliefs and actually open your minds to other possibilities?

The idea that you're just asking questions is nice in theory, but all you're doing is asking questions that imply their own answer; specifically, the answer you have in mind. Did you realize that, or were you already aware that your questions merely push an agenda under the guise of innocuous curiosity? Come on, son. If you want to take an ideological standpoint, take it. Don't dither about and pretend to serve as an arbiter of balance. It's tiring.

It is not "clear" that the American people don't want anything. Every bit of polling and research you could possibly quote has a counterpart from the other end of the spectrum that says more or less the opposite. The Affordable Care Act was ratified and signed into law with the aim of insuring millions of people who couldn't afford a basic human amenity. The latest Republican conception of how to stall the ACA. one they just introduced, is to slip in a clause that prevents women from being able to acquire birth control pills under their company health coverage unless their employer ---- who's going to be a man, 98% of the time ---- approves of it and has no "religious objections". Setting aside the fact that the clause is humiliating and disrespectful to women in general, it's also little more than pandering to the interests of groups who want to force their religious beliefs on the rest of the nation. You know why people say the Republicans are waging a war on women? It's because they are. If women object to the "conscience clause" and say they're entitled to the birth control pills, you can count on some GOP representative to be caught on a sound bite explaining that if women could just stop being such wanton sluts and have less sex, they'd see that they don't really need birth control pills. What about women who want to avoid pregnancies that arise out of rape or other forms of abuse? What about women who take birth control pills to avoid the pain and irritation of menstruation? What about women with physiological damage to their ovaries? What about all the women who take birth control pills for issues unrelated to their sexual activity?

I ken do leading questionz 2, so here's one for you: do you think people's lives and their right to autonomy over their bodies should be subject to whims like this? To what extent do you feel I should blame Democrats for the conscience clause?

Politics isn't a game where one side has to beat the other. It's supposed to be a cooperative effort for a collective good. Holding a nation hostage so that you can get your way? Americans should feel insulted.

Nice question.

Do you think people's lives and their right to autonomy over their bodies should be subject to whims of other people?

Let's take this further.

Do you think people should be forced to pay for others' healthcare? Do you think young and healthy people should be forced to pay higher premiums than older and sicker people?

Do you think that all men should have to pay for all women's birth control pills? Isn't that forcing men to take responsibility for the choices made by women that they don't even know?

Do you really think that the Democrats in the senate refusing to pass the bill sent to them by House Republicans was an example of a cooperative effort for a collective good?

Do you really think that obama promising to veto anything other than what he wants is a sign of cooperation?

It's funny you ask those seeing as how the Republicans are the ones pushing bills across across the country to deny women the right to chose what to do with their bodies. You're aware that what we currently health insurance can cover Viagra and other erectile dysfunction treatments for men? There are no medical benefits to those, like, oh I don't know, reduced risk of dying of complications during birth, but yeah, the birth control pill is totally the one we should be upset about paying for. But no you're right, that's such an important issue. Why should employers have to pay for someone's birth control pills when our system already allows coverage for the most important medical procedure that exists: penile enhancements. Every single point you've tried to broach (I assume that's what you're trying to do, but seriously you're failing at it) has been the most miserably predictable piece of right wing rhetoric with no backing at all. And not just because you prompt them in the form of a leading question, but because they're the most unfounded, ridiculous counterarguments ever. You asked at least 2 people 2 times each if they had "read the whole healthcare bill" and "how do you know it doesn't have death panels." You literally have provided nothing of your own to this debate. It would be nice if at least one intelligent person could champion the Republican party so maybe we could get an actual debate going on instead of just replying to trolls like you, but any intelligent people in the Republican party are either focused on their own greed, or they're deeply ashamed of speaking out because they're afraid of being associated with people like you.

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#97 Posted by hyiena (3731 posts) - - Show Bio

The upside is if it stays shut down you don't have to pay taxes anymore.

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#98 Edited by Squares (8661 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not like this hasn't happened before. The government shut down in 1995, if I recall, and nothing catastrophic happened.

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#99 Posted by silkyballfro94 (7572 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares: That was 1995 and 96. America is still at war, trillions in debt, terrorist groups, and the worst congress to ever be elected.

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#100 Posted by Xwraith (34205 posts) - - Show Bio

There are few things I can think of more dangerous than the left-right divide in the US.

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