Prime Anderson Silva VS Current Luke Rockhold

I say Anderson. Fight me about it :p

Bring it, homie.

Why Anderson?

Anderson would one shot him worst than Belfort did.

Lolwhut. You're aware Belfort was on TRT when he fought Rockhold, right? Like, the acceptable range of testosterone is 8.7-25.1 and when he was caught Vitor had levels of 50+.

People look at Silva with rose tinted glasses because he clowned inferior competition. Rockhold's better.

He beat an overrated Weidman who just got recently exposed.

Belfort's ko was all a well placed aimed kick that Luke could not see coming.

Exposed? By just losing to the better fighter? That's not being exposed, that's just losing at an elite level. Did you actually watch the fight?

Right. A knock out he achieved while he was some sort of genetic manbeast thanks to having double the testosterone of a normal person.

So? Jones still beat him so he was obviously no genetic man beast. That's no excuse.

Weidman is and always will be a tomato can and it still took him FOREVER to finish him.

A prime Silva is way to fast for Luke who if only good at eating shots. While Silva has taken out fighters with much more durability.

Jon Jones is literally the greatest ever and he still almost got submitted. It took the greatest genetic freak in the UFC to put Vitor away when he was juiced to the gills.

Based on what? Luke was on antibiotics which messes with your cardio. It's not Luke's fault Herb Dean's a shithouse ref, lol.

He fought Maths teachers and the Yushin Okamis of the world and only did that Matrix shit against predicable strikers like Forrest Griffin. Rockhold's a far more complete striker. I gave a legitimate analyse with references to guys like Jack Slack as to why Rockhold would win and you respond with a bunch of classic Silva hyperbole. Even if that loss to Vitor was legit, Rockhold's improved leaps and bounds since then. If you wanna play that game, back in Anderson's prime he was getting submitted by inferior competition in Pride, where he lost Ryo Chonan and Daiju Takase (I had to wiki those names to know who they were, lol).

Silva gets picked apart and dropped by body kicks in 3 rounds.

Silva hit his prime later in his 30's. Those don't count. Not to mention that Luke is no submission genius. He's the type of grappler that plays into Silva's game.

Rockhold gets tagged way too easily.

How the heck did he improve leaps and bounds? He's the same guy. He just got lucky and got to fight an overrated champion.

He grapples with the likes of DC, Khabib and Cain and has some of the best jujitsu in MMA. It took Silva 4 and a half rounds to submit Chael Sonnen despite the fact he was sitting up in his guard and practically handing him both wrists the whole fight.

Rockhold's jujitsu is far better:

Anderson got smashed every single time Weidman took the fight to the ground. Rockhold has a clear edge over Weidman ever time the fight went there. Rockhold dominated another BJJ blackbelt in Lyoto Machida on the ground, Silva would get the same treatment.

Rockhold gets tagged to easily because he got knocked out years ago by an elite fighter who had the testosterone levels of a horse? Okay then, sure.

Watch Luke's fights maybe? You're asking me to elaborate on points when you couldn't be more vague with yours. It's something he admitted himself. He didn't get lucky by being the better fighter, that's asinine.

REMEMBER that same elite fighter got knocked out by Silva with one kick.

ONE KICK

His wrestling is no better than Hendo's who Silva clowned AND submitted.

Silva wins with ease.

@crushyourenemies said:

REMEMBER that same elite fighter got knocked out by Silva with one kick.

ONE KICK

The vital competent of TRT is missing here. Add that to the fact that Vitor continually evolved his game (never threw a wheel kick before the Rockhold fight, never showed submissions off his back before the Jones fight). Vitor's strategy was to just throw bombs at Silva in a straight line. Rockhold doesn't do that at all. Good lord dude, this isn't a comicbook where you can just say "lol, Silva oneshots".

@crushyourenemies said:

His wrestling is no better than Hendo's who Silva clowned AND submitted.

Silva wins with ease.

Lol. Um, his wrestling is much, much better than Hendo's. He regularly grapples with Cain, Khabib and DC (the guy who looked like Hendo's big brother when Hendo tried wrestling with him), 3 of the absolute best wrestlers in the UFC. He was the first guy to take down (and generally outgrapple) Chris Weidman, the guy who won every minute of every round he spent on the ground with Silva. I'm convinced you don't even watch MMA or at least you only watch highlight videos on Youtube.

Rockhold still wins.

Really? DC? They are TRAINING. Has got nothing to do with an actual bout.

Cain Trains with DC where they supposedly beat the hell out of each other.

Means nothing. Werdum still trolled him. You don't get a super duper amp boost for "training" or even "sparring" someone. Skills and power are no homo statically attained like a videogame.

Silva was out of his prime way before Weidman. That's common knowledge in the MMA world hence why THIS is PRIME Silva. TSK TSK

It didn't matter whether Vitor was on TRT or not because Silva put him out with one blow. TRT doesn't turn you into Wolverine. You still get knocked out. And he was just as fast here as ever and never once tagged Silva.

Look at that.

PATHETIC

Luke's strike game is CRAP.

He didn't even know how to block a simple spinning kick.

How the heck is he supposed to contend with the greatest striker in MMA?

He CAN'T.

Silva dances around like a monkey then takes him out with one shot.

Andy.

Reading the arguments in this thread doesn't make you rethink your opinion?

@comicstooge: I remember reading Jack Slack's articles back when he was on bleacherreport . I agree with Rockhold taking the fight due to his elite well rounded game. Who do you think takes the rematch between Rockhold and Weidman? ( leaning towards Weidman)

Lolwhut. You're aware Belfort was on TRT when he fought Rockhold, right? Like, the acceptable range of testosterone is 8.7-25.1 and when he was caught Vitor had levels of 50+.

People look at Silva with rose tinted glasses because he clowned inferior competition. Rockhold's better.

So? Chael was on TRT when he fought Silva and Silva still aced him when it was all said and done.

Also, Henderson, Vitor, Diaz, Maia, Forest are all inferior? All of which are former champs??? Crazy. Why even watch UFC. Clearly everyone sucks and the champs such because they beat such people to become champ.

@comicstooge: after reading what you said above I understand you like Luke rockhold and that's fine cause he is an excellent athlete. But you making an argument that he could go the distance with the "spider" Is a bit of a reach Rockhold doesn't have the speed or durability took take power shots from Silva. Anderson may seem graceful and light but his punches are extremely accurate and strong. And I feel like your downplaying his grappling which is blasphemy. Silva submitted Dan Henderson (rear naked choke) andand also defeated chanel sonnen twice who is a better wrestler than Luke by my calculations. Anderson would defeat Luke by clinch knees.

If "aced him" means he got his ass beat for 20 minutes then used his opponent's well known and documented weaknesses to submissions from the bottom, then sure. Rockhold doesn't have any sort of holes like that.

See, again I find it funny that you talk about this like Chael wasn't busted for TRT. For 20 minutes Chael couldn't defeat him with an advantage. But you dismiss Vitor 1 Shotting him because of TRT. Obvious bias.

Yes, they're all inferior. Henderson's a decent wrestler with a good right hand, the Vitor that Silva fought wasn't the one that fought Rockhold, Maia got beaten by the very man Rockhold won the title from and Forrest Griffin had the worst boxing in the division (which was his main weapon against Silva ironically). They're not bad, but MMA is a constantly evolving sport. Brendan Schaub has said before that you can take as little as 6 months off and already behind the curve. Chuck Liddell would not last among the top Light-Heavyweights of the world today.

Yet you ignore (again) facts of each of these fights. Hendo is know to Take damage well, take you down or Put you out in a blow. Silva Sub's him. Maia's BJJ is not a question and Silva embarrassed him so badly people were pissed that Silva didn't finish him when it was obvious that he could have at any moment. Vitor's hand speed and boxing are top tier for middle weight and he couldn't land a single blow on Silva. (And again, you dismiss him here but Chael and Silva is somehow not meaningful) Forrest soaks damage like a sponge in water. Silva KO's him effortlessly.

Rockhold's chin is fine, a perfectly landed wheel kick like the one Belfort hit him with would knock anyone out, lets be real. Kicks are another story, Rockhold's are most certainty harder.


And Silva is the second least hit Fighter in UFC and the most accurate. Conner just proved that Timing/Accuracy is a big deal. And Silva without question has this over Luke.

Rockhold dominated Lyoto Machida on the ground, made Bisping tap for the first time, outworked Weidman on the ground, stopped Jacare Souza's jujitsu game and regularly trains with two of the bets wrestlers in the world. His defensive wrestling might be the best in the UFC today and he's tightened up his striking defense since the Belfort fight.


So what? That's what everyone said until Wiedman was the luckiest man on the planet. Vitor has the best striker and hardest hitter. Worst match up. Okami was the last one to beat him. Worst match up. Chael had the wrestling and agrression (Silva's weakness or some shit) worst match up. Maia had better BJJ. Worst match up. People say the bullcrap because eventually the odds will be in their favor.

But this is the truth: Silva now and especially Silva in his Prime has better Footwork. Better head movement. Better Striking. Higher KO % well over 60. Is more accurate. Has vastly more experience. His time in Pride says he's fought the tougher fights (given the rules). All this "He trains with the best in the world" nonsense. Silva is training with Jones right now. And everyone knows if Silva's not the best, then it's Jones.

Anderson Silva isn't nearly as effective when people don't lead for him. Rockhold would carefully pick him apart with question mark kicks and body kicks:

Is that a joke? Silva was throwing those kicks before Joe Rogan was telling people what it was called. Silva and Rogan have TKD backgrounds which is where the kick comes from.

Think it through dude. Most of Rockholds wins are by Subs and Silva's only been subbed twice in 40 freaking fights. Most of Silva's wins are by Knockout. 50 of the total matches he has fought, he KO's a man. Numbers suggest Rockhold gets wrecked as his only loses comes from trying to throw hands.

@comicstooge: I was never impressed by Luke's wrestling only thing impressive is that he is winning. Now if we argue stand up rather Luke is leading or running he DOESN'T have the speed to disrupt Anderson.

@comicstooge: Besides rockhold is going to try and lead Anderson the same way he did machida and he's going to get front kicked in his jaw piece. Luke hasn't fought more impressive opponents anyway. Machida was good but he damn sure can't defeat Silva, weidman is a great wrestler but he got exposed against Luke.

That shows you Luke's beating ppl who are not a match for the spider. I want to see Luke rockhold beat nick Diaz. You could argue that maybe.....

What? You were never impressed, even though you admit yourself that he regularly out-grapples the best wrestlers in his division and has some of the slickest jujitsu in MMA today? Rockhold has plenty of speed to tag Silva, who could only dance around slow, slugging and predictable light heavyweights or Chael Sonnen who can't throw a spinning backfist without falling over.

Anderson is plenty hitable:

I see you're still using a Juiced up Chael to show Silva's "weakness". It really only exposes your bias.

Lolwhat? Why is it casuals like you think that whenever anyone loses they've been "exposed"? Rockhold won a hard fought, back and forth battle with Weidman that showed he was ultimately the better fighter. Machida is a more complete fighter than I can recall Anderson Silva ever fighting and Rockhold battered him. Anderson was able to land a front kick on a one-dimensional, linear version of Vitor Belfort, good for him.

WTF does that even mean? Before I go any further, what is your MMA background? What is your martial arts background? You see, you're over here quoted this dude and that dude about MMA evolving. WTF do you actually know. See I teach martial arts. I've got two Black Belts. What do you do? I can't post a weblink to the school I taught at before I moved to CA. I can post the Weblink for the school that scouted me move here. Can you? F *cking "casuals"

First of Wieman is whack. He beat Mark, with a slick move. Awesome. The Silva defeated himself, not once but twice. Lyoto was hurting him repteatedly, but decided to be safe and lost (as he should have.) Rockhold trades body kick with him and Sub attempts until he acts an ass with kicks he doesn't know sh!t about and gets crushed for it. There was very little stand out in the fight otherwise. They traded body kicks and leg kick and Rockhold's are (as everyone knows) better that Wiedmans.

Vitor 1 shotted Luke like Silva 1 shooted Vitor. What are you saying?

No offense, but you really have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever and you reek of casual. Diaz is on a 3 fight losing streak and has huge holes in his game. He's nowhere near any sort of title shot. Enough, man.

You're doing the debating equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "ANDER$ON IS GOAT. HE'S UNTOUCHABLE!" as someone tries to lay out a rational argument.

But your argument is not rational. It's just Bias.

Chael Sonnen, even on TRT was pillow fisted and had a hard fought victory over the likes of Michael Bisping, who Luke made look amateurish. He didn't "one shot" him, this isn't a comicbook.

And? You are either going to d!ck ride or you ain't. Who cares if Chael beat bisping. You know who else did. Vitor and Hendo. Silva beat them. And it doesn't have to be a comic for the idea of a one shot to apply. See Vitor vs Luke. Aldo vs McGregor. R ampage vs Iceman. Henderson vs Bisping. All moments were 1 hit instantly KO'd them. Unlike Rockhold vs Wiedman. Iceman vs Ortiz. Silva vs Sonnen 2. If you don't understand what I mean, that's on you.
Also, you act like Luke didn't avoid the Spin hook kick from Luke easily the first time. They traded a few blows for maybe 2 and a half minutes. Luke hadn't been hurt or stunned in the whole fight. There is no reason he shouldn't have avoided the kick as easily as he did the first time. It hit him and that "one shot" had him sleeping. The other blows were just for the ref.

I know what Hendo can do. You're just listing characteristics, so what? Hendo won the first round against Silva. His grappling defense isn't remotely on Luke's level, nor is his jujitsu, kicking game, offensive grappling, ground and pound etc.

Maia's jujitsu didn't even come into play against Silva IIRC, all Silva did was clown him on the feet.

Dude, you don't know what you're talking about. Vitor landed 6 of the 15 strikes he through, Silva landed 6 of 10 strikes. You've never seen the fight, have you?

No one can "soak damage like a sponge" when they run chin first into a strike. Griffin's chin could not have been an easier more flush target.

Because Rockhold has fought so many people that tasted that defense right? My point his Hendo hits harder than Luke. He couldn't beat Silva.

Do you know anything about BJJ. Taking a person down is part of it and Maia couldn't take down Silva no matter how hard he tried. Or are you ignorant on take down defense?

Yes. Two of Vitors 6 strikes were leg kicks. 1 2 combo to the head. And two to the body.Yet if you watch the fight, you'll see that Silva's head movement is on such a level that while falling, he was able to dodge 2 strike and another while on the ground. That is what I meant.

Have you ever even watch a forrest griffen fight?? Do you see how often he gets hit in the fact? Hell Griffen vs Bonner? And No one can do it?? No one. Look up Chis Leben. A guy who was known to eat punches while walking forward and knock you out. Tell me more about how No one can do it.

Because he's the product of a weak Middleweight division compared to the relative shark tank that Middleweight has become today. It's easy to not get hit when the people your fighting through basic 1-2 combos and never feint, double up on strikes etcL

LMFAO. Shark tank?? Is that a joke. 4 of the top 10 middle weights when Silva was Champ are still in the top ten. If you go to the top 15, than number goes up to 5. If Silva was still ranked that Number would be 6. What are you talking about. Looking like many of the same sharks are in the water. Some are eating better because the biggest Shark is gone. What a joke.
Why don't you explain this shark tank thing to me a bit more.

.

Luckiest man on the planet because he beat Silva's ass twice? Okie, dokie.

He fought guys that, for the most part, wouldn't cut it in todays UFC with the skillsets they had during Silva's reign. MMA is a constantly evolving sport and the bar is constantly raised higher in terms of what fighters need to learn to stay on top.

Silva's time in Pride has no relevance, considering he lost to inferior Japanese cans who had mediocre careers before and after Anderson fought them. What benefits has Anderson shown from training with Jon Jones? He couldn't even finish Nick Diaz, a blown up welterweight, when he was roided to the gills

Luke's better everywhere that counts. I've proven it again and again.


We are at an impass on Silva vs Wiedman. So whatever.

Again, this is complete B.S.. Since the Middle weight top 10 is 40% the same as when Silva was champ. When Silva beats Bisping, he will be back in the top ten and it will be 50% the same. What are you even talking about.

Everyone knows Pride had more dangerous rules and if you feel like knowing how to protect yourself in that areas does nothing for Silva. Hahahahaha.

You haven't proved anything. All you've done is posted gifs of Juiced Chael hitting Silva and repeated parroted this nonsense about MMA's evolution which I doubt you have any real knowledge about and I have blown holes in by pointing out that the top 10 middle weights are almost the exact same. In fact. They would still be the same if Silva was ranked and Chael didn't retire.

So, what exactly have you proved?

Silva has better striking. Better Movement. More experience. Better BJJ and is all around better than Rockhold. Someone he called out prior to fighting Weidman. Yet everyone claimed he was just trying to duck wiedman for an easier fight.

@comicstooge: The way you just ran your mouth off, and displayed your hate with Silva and pulled the "you don't know what your talking about" card to avoid what I said. Now we are done debating. You should learn to shut your mouth when you don't have anything to say.

@dajhonmccloud: Don't worry. I have the free time currently. I'll take over for you.

@dajhonmccloud: Don't worry. I have the free time currently. I'll take over for you.

@dajhonmccloud: Don't worry. I have the free time currently. I'll take over for you.

A juiced up Chael still was never that great. Struggled against the likes of Michael Bisping who's never been among the most elite in the Middleweight division. And Silva does have weaknesses, he struggles against body attacks, has weak TDD and Luke's ground and pound and offensive jujitsu is some of the best in the MW division. Those are big weaknesses and Luke can exploit.

What a dumb thing to say. Bisping has been in the top 8 for the last 5 years. Since you like to parrot so much, why aren't you talking about how Joe Rogan constantly explains that Silva is one of the most Dangerous off his back? Hell, you posted a video below in which he says that same thing. Who cares if Silva gets taken down, when history says he submits his opponent sooner than they can knock him out.

I pay attention to the fights themselves. Jack Slack is the greatest MMA writer in the sport today and his opinion is respected by the likes of Joe Rogan. I don't care what blackbelts you have, because it's pretty clear you don't follow MMA and you argue like a child. I played soccer when I was 12, that doesn't make me more qualified to talk about Manchester United than anyone else.

Ah. So you don't actually know a damn thing? You know what playing soccer at 12 makes you? More qualified to talk about it than someone that's only ever watched. Joe Rogan, Jack Slack and me have all actually fought. We've all actually trained. We all actually have first hand knowledge of what happens in real fight. You are just parroting info you've heard. Regurgitating crap you've been feed. You don't know anything about fighting.

"Silva defeated himself?"

No, Weidman knocked him out and broke his leg. Chris won every minute of every round he fought against Silva, despite what you and his other cheerleaders might think. He had more significant strikes, more takedowns, more sub attempts, passed Silva's gaurd etc, even in that first fight.
So? Who said otherwise?

Weidman won the 1st round in a close fight, lost the 2nd and basically got finished in that 3rd round. What about Rockhold's jujitsu defense, his takedowns, guard passes multiple sub attempts and his overall fantastic game?

Vitor stunned Luke with the spinning kick and finished him off with a GnP flurry. Stop pretending like you watched anything more then the GIF of the kick.

Luke is sloppy. Falling on his ass first thing. Second move Vitor throws was the Wheel kick. Luke avoided it effortlessly. So, there is zero reason he couldn't do it twice. The shot put him out. The extra punches were for the ref. He wasn't getting up. Just like Silva didn't need to put extra punches on Vitor. The kick finished.

That's ironic. Only one of us has given any sort of objective evidence or analysis and it hasn't been you so far, Mr blackbelt man.

Objective?? Tell me more about the Evolved middle weight shark tank that still has 50% of the same top 10 fighters for the last 5 years Mr. Objective Analysis.

Hendo's as basic as they come and fighting Vitor and TRTitor are two very different things. Do I need to explain to you how steroids work? On steroids, a person becomes more explosive and faster then they normally would be, those are the qualities that benefited Vitor in throwing that kick. Did I explain that simply enough for you?

A juiced up Chael still was never that great.

^^^Remember that statement that you made. Don't you know that steroids makes a person more explosive and faster than they would normally be? More to the point, as I have stated before, Luke dodged that kick before. It wasn't like it was something that caught him off guard because he didn't know Vitor could do it. He dodges it the first 70 second of the fight. So, a juiced up Vitors spinning kick isn't that great. But lets settle something right here and now.

Here is proof Luke should have been able to avoid that KO by virtue of him avoid this exact kick by the man that KO'd him with it. No, I can play your game and say "TRTitor isn't all that great anyway." Citing this moment. At which point Luke's defeat is even more comical. Or TRT use means something and when Silva, what was it that you said again, ""got his ass beat for 20 minutes"" by a ""more explosive and faster" person who was able to exploit Silva's ""weak TDD"" and still find away to defeat him look even more GOAT like.
One way or the other is a win for me. (Luke' stupid KO or Silva's GOAT Sub) I'll leave that to you, though I'm sure you'll just ignore this and be all like "You're debating like a child" so some evasive nonsense.

All Hendo has is his H-Bomb and takedowns. Luke Rockhold has a whole tool bag of attacks, body kicks, question mark kicks and precise attacks that Silva didn't have to worry about when he fought brawlers like Hendo.
Silva has better Kicks, a bigger tool bag and more precise strikes that Luke and Luke has never had to worry about that. More over, Silva's BJJ is better. His striking is better. His KO power is better and more proven, his chin and endurance is more tested and prove and he's all around just better.

You're the one who's ignorant of TDD. Chris Weidman had never been taken down before fighting Rockhold and Luke took him down twice. Anderson Silva's TDD is notoriously bad. Maia's take downs aren't great in that he doesn't set them up and shoots from a distance. Luke on the other hand always sets them up or goes for them when he smells blood in the water.
So what? Chael hit Silva more in their first fight than Silva had been hit in his entire career and that's a fact. Silva still defeated him. So what does Weidman being taken down matter? More over, anyone that watched the fight can see Wiedman doesn't know a damn thing about Spinning kicks and got punished for it. You say that crap like Luke hit him with some amazing take down, when in reality it was no more impressive than Weidman being lucky to catch Silva on the 4th punch after he mockingly dodge the other 3.

Lol, you can literally watch the fight yourself and see how Vitor was pretty much swinging haymakers. Nothing like Rockhold's calculated strikes at all, try again.

You know what is hella funny. Is that if you do watch that fight, you see at 2:58-3:03 Silva dodge 3 punches. 1 while stumbling. 1 while falling and another right after he hit the ground on his back. So, I'm supposed to be concerned about, the 2 second least hit fighter (next to Lyoto) being hit by someone after witching them avoid attacks while basically falling down and having next to no foundation, movement or control. Yeah, ok......... But I'm waiting for you to tell me why that's not impressive. Give me more of that objective analysis.

You understand that to properly defend strikes you need to have your chin down, right? Aldo took numerous bombs from Chad Mendes, but McGregor landed a punch flush on his chin during their fight and it dropped him instantly, because Jose had his chin out.

Here are the basics, because I don't have time to explain the basics of MMA striking to you: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/3/31/4160604/bloody-basics-striking-stance-mma-boxing-ufc-standup-technique-tutorial

When taking a strike, posture is everything.

I can see you're being evasive again and ignoring what I said. So, Chris Leben and Forest Griffen are 100% known to eat shots and keep fighting. Here is a video, where are the 3 minute mark, Chris gets tagged directly on the chin. You can literally see his legs almost give out and for a solid minute after he keeps walking forward, eatting shots on the way in.

I don't need read anything given that I know how fights work and people are different. Some can do things others can't and never will be able to do. Most people can not do this. Forest can Chris can. Silva ended them both with Strikes more pin point and Luke has shown in his entire career. Luke's chin is not strong and Silva will put him away for it.

The only joke here are your arguments. When we consider the top contenders that matter, like Yoel Romero, Souza and Lyoto Machida, they're infinitely better than your Yushin Okamis, Chael Sonnens and Rich Franklins, because those are the guys that Silva defended against. Don't be ignorant about it.
Funny that you leave out Belfort. Also, Souza's last win was against number 29???? Yeah he matters. At least the to the other guy is fighting people in the top ten. Oh and that still happenes to include not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 fighters that were in almost the exact same spots since Silva was champ. So, lets stop with the question evading. How is it a shark tank when it's almost completely unchanged.

You couldn't even throw elbows in Pride. The most dangerous thing about his stomps and soccer kicks, none of which are relevant here. Silva fought cans in Pride, regardless.
And if you don't see how this changes the ground game to an extrodiary degree? That right, you know nothing about actually fighitng.

How many guys in the current top 10 did Silva defend against? He sure didn't fight Mousasi, Whitaker, Yoel Romero, Souza or any of the people actually relevant in the chase for a title shot. You do realize I've been quoting guys like Jack Slack (the most respected MMA writer in the world today) and Brandon Shaub (a formier fighter and presenter of one of the primier MMA podcasts) right? As well that, Joe Rogan has said the same thing about MMA's evolution being at a rapid pace.
Yes, I know you've been parroting.
And 3 are in the top 15 (not 10) Silva will beat Bisping. You know that and likely go on to fight hall before fighting and beating Rockhold.

You're just cooking up garbage arguments then finishing off by stating Silva's just better despite doing nothing to prove it. I've shut down every single one of your points, this is getting embarrassing.
The only thing embarrassing is the fact that you know nothing about fighting but throwup other peoples opinions like you have any idea of what the truth is. You haven't shut down anything. Hell, you've actually never address a single point I've made directly.

1. How will Silva not make it in Middleweight (something you suggested) because of it's "evovlution" when half the fighters are the same. Silva was only removed from the rankings because of his Drug issues. Otherwise, he'd be ranked between 3 and 5.
2. How is Rockhold going to deal with someone that has better striking. Better KO powers. Better Foot work. Better movement (especially head movement.) Longer reach. Greater *accurate" striking variety. More experience. Greater ground offense. Arguably greater defense and faster.
   
3. How are you dismissing Rockholds defeat to vitor and Silva's Vitory? Yet both fought fighters who were cheating with the same drug?
4. If Vitor on TRT was so explosively dangerous, how did Rockhold dodge the same kick that ko'd him.
5. If Rockhold is so calculated in his striking and kicking, why was it that he and Wiedman traded kicks in the second round? Why wasn't his foot work and striking keeping him from that?
   
   I've been asking all this and you've never touched on any of it once. You just evade it with some nonsense about evolution and sharks and weblinks.
   

Bisping's never even challenged for the title. He's the ultimate gatekeeper. Silva was "the most dangerous off his back" at a time when most fighters didn't have the all around level of skill we see today from top competition. Guys like Weidman and Rockhold are a cut above Silva when it comes to being on the ground.
You're feelings on him as a gatekeeper or whatever change nothing about him consistently being top ten. Any any sport 5 years of top ten makes you elite. The last part is just B.S. They've done nothing that supports this. He's got too many wins by submission and to few losses in an extremely long career to even entertain that.

Irreverent, because it's pretty clear you're being smoked in an argument by someone who's never fought professionally. When someone's that much smarter, more logical and more studious than you, it makes up for the fact that you got beat up a lot in kickboxing or whatever. In appears, at least to me, you lack the analytical skills to apply anything you learned from fighting into this hypothetical match up.

So based on that single kick he got caught with by a steroid abuser, that's how all his fights go?
Saying you've out debated me is no more true than saying Rockhold can beat Silva. It just makes you seem dumb. But if it keeps you going, kick ass. As you don't know anything about fighting, I don't really care what it appears like to you. That's like saying 2+2=5 and it appears right to you. So what? You're still wrong. It's you opinion and your'e free to have it. It can still be stupid as hell and completely wrong.
Never said that. But if Rockhold was as godmode as you say, he wouldn't have got caught. Silva got caught Clowning the same way he has always clowned and defeated dozens before. He played and took the risk. Wiedman's very lucky in that regard. Rockhold got caught by a kick he could clearly see coming while being serious as hell. He's not as good as you say.

Remember what happened the last time someone threw a spinning kick at him? He pound and pounded their face into mush.
Yeah and that pleased me more than you can imagine. You see, if you knew anything about fighting or striking you'd know that there where several reason why a skilled striker wouldn't have even tried that kick. Like the fact that Luke and Chris were in open stance. It's near impossible to get over a persons shoulder with that kick. The distance was horrid. Far to close for a wheel kick. Has to be hook kick that close and still low success rate because of the stance.
Vitor did the exact opposite as well as kicking the why Luke was walking. LD;DR Chris is not a great striker (Vitor is) He lost because he did something stupid. Luke didn't do something great.

Really? Because going off Sherdog the 2011 Middleweight rankings were as follows:

Again, you're talking out of your ass with this talk about the Middleweight division being the same. The cream of the crop were at Strikeforce. Vitor is still high up in the current rankings because he got gifted a title shot and knocked out a 45 year old completely shot Dan Henderson.

Ugh. Let's do some math real quick please. 2012(1year) 13(2 years) 14(3ys) 15(4ys) **16(5ys) shreddog ranking at the time we can be found here. Which if you don't want to go there still contained Rockhold, Wiedman, Bisping and Belfort. Which makes of the 40% that I mentioned. and when Silva beats Bisping (and likedly even if he doesn't) he will be placed back on the rankings and make that 50%(Just like I mention.) But you want to do mental gymnastic's like it's hard to figure out what I meant by 5 years or something. And it's funny that Henderson is "Completely shot" when he's loses are coming to guys in top ten like Vitor and Freaking Cormier, but he can still put another top ten(at the time) guy out n less than 30 seconds. But ok. He's shot. Oh and you just showed that Misping and Vitor have been top ten for 6 years now. But yeah, Bisping is a joke......

Yeah, but it doesn't make people improve everyone the same. That's why we don't have a 20 way tie in the Tour de France every year.
Translation: I want it to matter that Silva got hammer, but not that Luke got KO'd because it kills a great part of my argument.
Response: I know, man. I know.

So you're saying if someone opens with a left hand, then their opponent should be able to avoid that said strike regardless of when or how it's thrown? Absolutely ridiculous. TRT Vitor almost submitted Jon Jones and knocked out every opponent he faced. Sonnen couldn't finish Silva after ground and pounding him for 20 minutes and had a competitive fight with gatekeeper Michael Bisping.

Even then, AKA coach ‎Javier Mendez said that the best Luke he'd ever seen up until that point was against Tim Boetsch, so it's pretty clear Luke has improved since the Vitor fight, as evidenced by the fact that he's finished every opponent since that fight.

Luke wasn't in his prime against Vitor. Look, I can turn arguments around too! :)
Silva, again, is the second least hit fighter in UFC history. What I'm saying is, if Luke is as God mode as you claim, that kick should have be avoided like the last, in the manner that Silva generally avoid almost every strike in his 40 fights.
Vitor ALMOST beat Jones while Juicing, but Jones is a F*cking beast and steal defeated him with a damaged arm. Chael, almost Beat Silva while Juicing, but Silva is a F*cking beast and still defeated him with broken ribs.
Luke can not say the same. See the difference??
Word. He has improved. So? He's not as good as Silva in any area.
In this hypothetical fight, Silva is in his Prime. So yeah, Silva by ROFLSTOMP ^_^

He wasn't lucky. Silva was desperately trying to force Weidman to overextend and Chris wasn't having any of it and doubled up on his striking, something Luke does as well. Chael's ground and pound isn't on Luke's level and his defensive/offensive jujitsu is better. Unlike Anderson, Rockhold has never been submitted, despite going up against superior grapplers like Souza while Anderson got submitted by cans in Pride.
LMMFAO!!! Doubling up?? Doubling up??? That is a joke.

So, again, you don't know anything about Striking. So I'm not shocked you don't see whats happening here. But just take a look at the actually fight. Silva is not desperate. Rogan comments on the clear speed difference allowing Silva to tag him with Kicks. Silva has his hands at his waste. And easily dodges 3 of 4 strikes. 1 of which was just a flail or his right arm (The third punch if you want to call it a punch.) The idea that Silva is desperate, when is is literally not even fighting back. He's clearly playing around (He paid for it. As he should have. ) is foolish. But again, you don't know fighting. Silva handed this win to Weidman.
Also, and? Unlike Rockhold, Silva has never been KO'd while fighting seriously, despite fighting known powerhouses and Strikers like Henderson and Belfort and did away with extremely noteworthy grapplers like Cheal and Okami. So, meh?

Luke took him down prior to the spinning wheel kick, silly. If you wanna play the "it was a fluke" game, Chael's second fight with Anderson ended when Silva finished Sonnen after a botched spinning backfist. I guess Anderson got lucky there too.
Hahaha. Playing the bias game again, huh? See, the back fist wasn't botched. That would be what happened to the Wheelkick. The back fist actually avoiding and it robbed chael of balance. Much like Holly didn't to Ronda. I'm sure you saw the fight. W

See how he's knee wraps around his body? How his heel and foot(thing to strike with) are no where near his head? See how he's too close for this to have ever even worked? Luke didn't avoid this kick. He didn't even catch or block it. It was just a a bad move. A botch as you put it. Dodged a back fist doesn't make it a botch. It mean you dodged it.

The difference between getting hit by Luke and getting him by Chael is that Rockhold actually has substantial finishing power while Chael has pillows for fists.
Yeah, I guess that's why he only has 4 KO's to his name and why Chris didn't go limp with all those hits he dropped on him for like 20 seconds straight. His finishing powers is way up there.

Lol, what did Luke do to the other least hit fighter in the UFC? Beat the shit out of him, that's what. Dodging a flailing Vitor is one thing, Anderson has never been able to avoid body strikes with remotely the same success as he has the flailing 1-2 combinations of his 2012 competition. Seriously, I don't think anyone he ever faced even through body or question mark kicks at him.

Anderson's impressive, but Rockhold is just a more evolved fighter.

So again, instead of actually addressing my points of Silva being able to avoid attacks in extremely tough situations, you deflect and talk about Weidman getting clowned for doing a stupid move. Cool man. Keep on with that evolution stuff. Luke couldn't even finish Weidman in the third, but yeah. He's a GOAT for sure.

This is the Lebin finish, by the way. Anderson isn't a power puncher, it took a considerable number of strikes for Silva to finish Leben:
What does that change about the two points I was making. Address that and stop ducking it. You said some crap like

You understand that to properly defend strikes you need to have your chin down

To which I told you about forrest and Leben being known to not do that and still finish people, even when seriously hurt. There are successful fighters that do not follow you parroted narrative of how fighting works. I also pointed out that Silva crushed those fighters with Pin Point striking (which is far above Lukes) I know he took Leben out with Several strikes. That was my point. That he is pin point and can KO fighters with Extremely teasted chins. the likes of Leben and Forrest. Do you understand. Either address those points or concede them. Either works for me. The ducking has to stop though.

Silva's pin point striking relies on his opponents being awful one dimensional strikers, something Luke most certainly isn't. Try again.
See, I went over the different dimensions of Silva's past fighters. I won't be doing that again. So, no. What you said above is B.S. Luke's question mark kicks aren't ko'ing anyone and his KO's are not as impressive as Silva's.

Souza was also the Strikeforce Middleweight champion, has submitted Gegard Mousasi and had a victory over Tim Kennedy and has some of the best jujitsu in MMA. You totally missed my point - Rockhold nullified his jujitsu game, Silva's wouldn't be an issue.

False. You have no support for this claim. In fact, If that was the case, he wouldn't have been rode like a house much of round 1 against Wiedman and he would have submitted him there when he had the chance.

Vitor Belfort is only in the top 10 based off a gifted title shot and a victory over 45 year old deflated Dan Henderson. What year's P4P rank is that, btw? Can you show me it so we can evaluate it together?
Posted above and again, Vitor has been in top 10 for years. Again, you have no base for this claim.

Lol, how much did the Pride rules improve the ground games of Wanderlei Silva and Cro Cop when they got to the UFC? Good lord, you're being schooled by someone who's never fought professionally in his life.

Bullsh!t. As I said, you lack of knowledge allows you to say this. That's the part that's actually very funny.

He couldn't even finish a blown up welterweight while jacked on roids. Stop dreaming.

Start reading. I didn't say finish. I said beat. Silva will beat Bisping. His Fight with Hall will be the fight everyone calls for as it was something people wanted years past. That will give him 3 wins (I know the other was changed to NC) he will then call for the title and he wanted to fight Rockhold in the past anyway. It's the only fight that would be interesting and makes the most money. Everyone knows UFC does the fights that make the money. Not the fights that are actually deserved.

Did you ever complete a highschool assignment? It's called referencing sources and using evidence. Dude, you've just spouted nonsense out and debated like these two guys are comicbook characters. It doesn't matter who Anderson has actually fought in comparison to Luke, or how they fight, all that matters is Anderson's feats? Lmao.

Nonsense is parroting information that is the opinion of other people. What evidence have you used? None. Just bull you think sounds could from a few guys that get respect in the MMA world.

1) You do realise the rankings the UFC uses are purely a marketing gimmick, right?

So what? It is the consensus of the governing body that controls the sport in regards to who the best fighters are. When making informed decisions, it will always care more weight than the parroting of a "causal" that knows nothing of what fighting is. Oh, and you didn't actually answer my question. You just avoided it again.

2) I don't know how he'd deal with that, but lucky for him he's not fighting a guy like that. He's fighting Anderson Silva.

Who is all those things. Again, avoided the question.

3) Because fighters improve over time and Vitor was heavily abusing TRT against Luke. There's a whole plethora of context your willfully ignoring so you can snuggle into your Anderson plushie at night and pretend like he's invincible.

If that's the case, the same can be said of Silva(improving over time) and he's always been better than Luke based of their history, fights and performances. More over, Context that you are ignoring is Anderson beat someone using TRT. Someone that you pointed out exploited his biggest weakness. Luke does not have what it takes to finish Anderson.

4) If Anderson was untouchable, how did he got knocked out by Weidman? If you say luck, you're honestly one of the most hypocritical debaters I've ever come across because that's a catch all excuse for anything. If I was going to use your style of debating I'd say "he wasn't in his prime" or "Vitor got lucky".

This again, does not answer my question. Again, you avoid. But I'll actually answer yours. I never said he was untouchable. Nor did I say catching him was lucky. I said Weidman was Lucky that day because of what Silva was doing. Weiman was not throwing strike anywhere near the technical level of Vitor or even the speed. Silva was clowing him. As he always has done to people. This time it worked against him. He got caught because he defeat himself. He wasn't fighting back. Nothing of what he was doing suggest he was taking Weidman seriously. And just like Dana White said, had Silva won the fight people would call him a god. But this time, Weidman did what others were not able to do. Go him. However, had Silva fought seriously (like he didn't against Beflort. Known power striker) things would have likely been different. As such, I say it was a lucky thing.

5) He had an infection that forced him to use antibiotics, which impacted his performance.

Citation for that would be fantastic. However, it would still work against you argument and for mine, given that Silva fought through broken ribs and that was documented. But at least you answered that question. And gross. He shouldn't fight like that.

You've been throwing around hyperbole about how untouchable and invincible Anderson is without giving any thought to any thought to context or use of critical thinking. How can I refute so much of what is essentially the debating equivalent of someone pleasuring themselves to the thought of Anderson's black and yellow shorts?

But see the thing is, you're a liar. I've pointed out all through this where you avoid answer challenges. I post gifs and links to support claims while you stated that Chael "botched" a back fist that Silva expertly dodges. You claim Rockholds the better Striker with better KO power, when Silva has won half his fights by KO's. I referenced that Silva has the record for being the most accurate striker MMA history, you claim Luke is more so based of Feels and something about evolution. I point out that Silva's ability allows him to act a complete ass 95% of the time while fighting and only once in 40 fights be KO'd, while Luke is as serious as they come and got put out anyway.Yet you still claim Luke is the more calculated fighter. I referense that Statistically, Silva is the second least hit fighter of All time. Which speaks to his foot work, head movement, distance control, speed ect. You read what you want to read and say "You think he's invincible" and say I'm talking in hyperbole.

So, no, you are actually just a hater. You don't know anything about fighting. And feel a little hardcore debating on the internet about things you'll never be able to do or understand.

This is the same P4P list that randomly moves fighters up and down to suit marketing needs. Bisping's been constantly upstaged by the real elite, hence why he's never gotten a title shot in his life. He's not championship caliber but he's good and the fans pay to see him, that makes him a gatekeeper.

As I said, I don't care about your feelings on who is or isn't a gatekeeper. Who's a shark or who's evolved. The only thing I care about are facts. You jump from who's top to it doesn't matter to fit your argument. The only person that was Elite was Silva, given that he beat everyone who was supposed to be elite. But This doesn't help your point and it's not something I need to talk about.

If Anderson was as god mode as you say he is, he wouldn't have got submitted twice in his career and got dominated by Weidman twice. You're so hypocritical in that you're basing all of Luke's performances on that one fight against Vitor yet when anyone points to Anderson's losses you'll cry "he wasn't in his prime!" when by your own piss poor debating standards, you could say the same for Luke. Weidman said himself "If Silva had gotten away with it, everyone would've been calling him a genius" but he didn't. Calling me stupid or whatever is honestly a bit immature, but honestly, what can I expect from a guy who gets punched in the head for a living?

I never said you were stupid, but I guess that fits given how often you say I am posting statements that I haven't. In post 42, I state clearly Silva should have been beaten by Wiedman for what he was doing, but you and I know for a fact I've never stated that Silva was beaten because he was out of his prime. So why don't you quote me where I said that. You liar.

Rockhold had also been winning that round and the round before it, but whatever.
Doesn't change what I was saying.

Anderson didn't fight any of the young blood coming up except for Weidman who stopped him twice. Your point is entirely irrelivant, as usual. Belfort's standing in the P4P ranking is based on his accomplishments while on roids, a gifted title and yeah, a victory over 45 year old Dan Henderson. At 45 and (presumably) off the roids that kept him going so long, yeah, Hendo is no longer elite. How exactly do you think Rockhold vs Dan Henderson would go?
I think Rockhold stands a better change of beating henderson than the reverse. None of the "young blood" was good enough to earn a title shot but wiedman and Wiedman only got it because Silva had cleaned out everyone in the division. He's had lackluster fights since Silva. Nothing about his victories suggest that he's Elite. Just the better fighter that day. His win's over Silva where just good luck for him.

Literally your entire argument revolves around Luke's loss years ago to a PED'd genetic freak, which he admitted matured him as a fighter. Change your tune (not that I intend to keep this debate going, because frankly it's getting tedious).
No, the tedious part of the debate is I keep saying SILVA IS A BETTER FIGHTER. HE'S GOT BETTER FOOTWORK, SPEED, STRIKING, MOVEMENT, ACOMPLISHMENTS THAN LUKE. Which is why he will most likely lose in a fight. You're reply to that is "Na uh!! Luke is the most completely"

Rogan also gets his head stuck up his own arse when commentating occasionally like the time he claimed that Homminick had world class head movement when he was getting lit up by Jose Aldo.

As for Weidman not doubling up, Jack Slack disagrees:

Again, in another article Slack states:

That's embarrassing for you, isn't it? A black belt who doesn't know how punches work.
I didn't even read those. I stopped as for as for doubing up, Jack disagrees" I posted the video of Wiedman punching and flailing his arms at Silva before being able to catch him. The funny thing is, you don't know what a punch is. There for, it stands to reason that you would agree with someone else that doesn't. I don't need anyone to tell me what I say. Chris was flailing.

Since when did I call Luke the GOAT? Leon Spinks wasn't the GOAT, but he beat Muhammad Ali. Again, I've noted Andersons' weakness to body attacks, which Luke excels at. But no, you can't find a highlight reel example of Anderson avoiding those, so you'll willfully ignore that point. Do you not know the difference between a wild haymaker to the head and a precise kick to the body? What McDojo did you buy your blackbelt from again
Clealy you don't, given the bull from the last bit I replied to. See the dumb part of what you're saying is "You're ignoring X point." No, I'm know, you're just ignoring the counter point that shuts it down. What part of Silva is the second least hit person in UFC history are you not getting. Weakness to body attack is your (likely parroted) view of him. If you knew how to fight, you'd understand that it's much easier to hit a persons body, than their head or legs. So, if Silva is more prone to taking shots there, its very likely that is the reason.
For something to be precise, it has to hit it's mark smart guy. That's why we gadge it's precision. So, there are not highlight reels of him dodging a "precise kick or punch" As the dodging contradicts this. So, what do you know of Haymakers vs Pin Point striking? Where is Luke's Highlight reel of his pin point, outstanding evasive movement strikes and KO power?? Would you like me to post 6 or 7 of Silva??
TL;DR Even if Silva was "weak" to body attacks, his speed, footwork, great striking speed, greater striking power, greater ring (octagon) control, slight reach advantage and more advanced attack set will be more than enough to prevent Luke from doing anything with such a weakness.

@bossmonster said:

He finishes opponents when they walk carelessly into his counter punches sure. I never said he didn't have KO power, but he's a counterstriker, not a Rumble Johnson knockout machine. Luke won't play his game, the same way Chris didn't.

What question mark kick has Silva ever thrown?
Again, stupid. Bonnar, Sonnen, Okami, VItor, Griffin, Leties, Cote, Franklin. Which of those mean was carelessly workng forward. Or did they get caught trying to stand, punished on the ground, counter punched, Kicked in the mouth, ect.
Weidman did play his game, he just happen to win. Silva's game is counter attack and speed. If Luke attacks, he's playing Silva's game.
Vitor took Silva down after a failed question mark kick.

There's only so much of your garbage I can actually take now. Anyone who's not already convinced by arguments probably will be if you're the absolute best that can defend Silva. Statics didn't count for jack when Weidman finished Silva twice or when Chael beat on his ass for 25 minutes before blundering it up like he always has. I don't want to be a fighter, it's of no interest to me and honestly, if you're the example of what a fighter is, I don't want to take that many hits to the head, lmao. You don't even know how punches work, based off those Jack Slack articles that have made you look like a moron. Anywhere, there's no point to this. I can say that Silva's competiton was meatheads and Maths teachers, you'll retort with some nonsense about the UFC rankings (which mean absolutely bullshit, btw) or a big pargraph that amounts to nothing. Goodnight, sweet prince. I'm going to spend my time elsewhere.

So you are conceding then. You've proved nothing. You've backed up nothing, You've only ducked and spit dumb shit about sharks and evolution. Statically, Silva was going to beat Sonnen. And he did. Twice. You admit to knowing dick about fighting. You can't make the call as to if I know how a punch works or not. And, don't be gay on me dude. If that's your thing, whatever, but it's not mine. Lets keep it clean.

@comicstooge: So, I want to revisit this thing about a shark tank and how Luke is the new breed ect ect.