Geek culture toxic against LGBTQ people?

Let me start off by saying that I think Comicvine is a great place in terms of how people treats others. Sure, conversations might get heated and there is a jerk here and there. But in general, the amount of homophobia, racism etc I have seen on the forum in the last few months is almost non-existent. This is in part due to the community, who pushes that shit right back in when it pours out, and the mods who call out problematic speech. Thanks for that.

This is not the same for the majority of forums I attend though, and definitely not for geek culture as a whole. In online gaming especially, swear words that bash gay and queer people are used like there is no tomorrow. I am not gay myself but I am dating another man, and I hesitate to show affection towards him at places like Yugioh tournaments or lan parties, for fear of being the butt (hue hue) of jokes. The only geek events I feel completely safe at are (comic) cons, incidentally also the places where the man - woman ratio is not AS totally screwed up.

Why do you think in 'our culture', people are often so blatantly homophobic? And is there something we can do, other than calling out said behavior? Or do you disagree with me? I would like you people's opinion on this.

I believe it depends on what stream of geek culture you focus on, not to make assumptions but I would expect more homophobia within gamer fandom than, say, anime fandom.

I don't find geek culture anymore toxic than the LGBTQ culture.

In my experience that is actually true.

What is that supposed to mean?

@cpt_nice: What are you not understanding? Are you under the mistaken impression that the LGBTQ culture can't be toxic?

Except for the gaming segment, which in a lot of ways is about being hypermasculine. I am talking about games like COD, which obviously also has some of the worst and foul mouthed fan base I have ever seen.

It could be that segments that are largely dominated by men (gaming and card games as opposed to anime and comics, where there is more gender diversity) focus more on masculinity and see homosexuality as effeminate.

Anything can be toxic. But I am asking in what way you see LGBTQ culture as toxic.

@cpt_nice: I never said it was or wasn't though to me you having to ask that means you don't think it is.

If you do not want to answer the question, don't dance around the issue. Just say so.

Wut?

@jucaslucas: There are sexual alignments besides gay or straight.

@cpt_nice: Ok, then.

It's good that there isn't too much xenophobia, genderphobia, creedophobia, or bias against homosexuals.

I am not entirely sure what "geek culture" is, as far as who, what, why, and where exactly. Similar for LGBQT people. So its hard for me to think about some of your questions because of the phrasing involved. I mean, of course I have a general understanding of the idea of geek culture and LGQBT people, and I would say that I would be affiliated with and considered an individual who falls into both groups, but thats different, and involves a lot of assumptions, presuppositions, context as well, degrees of relativity. Around and involving consensus on definitions and so on.

I am also not sure what forums different CV users frequent, though I sort of understand and agree to some extent what I assume to mean you imply OP, but if my assumptions are right, I wouldn't actually view it as a geek culture thing at all, and instead I would chalk it up to… well a lot more complicated things. Age, culture, the nature of online anonymity, self expression, rapid advances in technology. People trying to cope and survive as best they can, types of social interactions and individuals learning to navigate through those. People having to vent and express themselves over the things that frustrate, unnerve, annoy, or anger them. That in relation to say their empathy/sympathy skills, and ability to think of others/consider others.

So why could someone see patterns between geek culture being hostile and aggressive towards LGBQT people? Well, young people generally tend to acclimatize to technology better and more readily than older people. Its why CV and many other websites are going to have more users in teens and twenties than say users who are in their 60's and 70's. This is changing a bit, and is a bit of an oversimplification, but I think most people get what I am getting at. Young people also tend to generally think… a certain way. Its to do with brain functioning and grasping certain ideas that are really important for communication and interaction with reality and other individuals. Its not just a young people thing either mind you, but think about it as people who think in binary, black and white, right and wrong, and people who think with more relativity and take into account context. As people get older and more experienced, they usually get better at understanding context, and so better understand other things more, as a result. Ideas about people, language, ideas can get more flexible (though they can also get more rigid)

To try and tie all this back into this threads ideas and topics, I don't think geek culture has a generally or especially large negative attitude towards gLGBQT culture, just that geek culture like many types of culture or group, has a large amount of people, who because of normal and ordinary life experiences, can build up a lot of frustration, negativity, resentment, anxiety, annoyance, anger, emotion, stress and that the nature of being able to express and vent many of those things (and very often ones self) in an anonymous or semi-anonymous fashion seems to work and provide relief. Also since most young people and people in general aren't perfect, or experts on biology, psychology, ethics, law, medicine, culture, history, neurology, well, the ideas and "groups" that tend to bare the brunt of venting and expression, tends to be a bit simplistic. We are still becoming aware of who we are, what our politics and philosophies and world views are, navigating social situations, trying to find our social and professional niche.

How people receive and interpret a message also will influence how they react to things as well. If that message is interpreted or received a certain way, well. For example, in recent times, I have seen people express the sentiment that if we should be more tolerant towards people, then we should be tolerant towards people who are intolerant of certain beliefs and views, least we are hypocrites. Except such ideas usually carry a lot of baggage through assumptions, presuppositions, axioms and so on. When some people advocate for tolerance, its usually not intended to be some absolute stance that demands we accept anything and everything that people do. The capacity for a heterosexual to find homosexuality okay and fine, and so on, isn't necessarily the same as having an adult finding a lack on consent for one party in a sexual situation okay and fine. Except many people don't interpret others that way, the message is different and then its easier to accuse others of being a hypocrite.

So there are a lot of people on the internet as well as in general, billions I hear… I imagine a lot of them generally feel or have this sense that the "LGBQT people" are trying to force and shove their agendas everywhere, and guilt trip them, and judge them, and vilify them, when. A. They are totally okay with LGBQT people, they just don't like the leftist media and LGBQT people going on about it all the time. Do you see straight people going on about straight pride all the time? No? NO! No they don't. No. The answer is definitely no. B. They are totally okay with LGBQT people, but online everyone should be mocked and abused, and calling random online people pejoratives around gender/orientation gets them really mad and butthurt. C. They are totally okay with LGBQT people, but not really, they just say that, but gay anal sex, lesbians, trans people, really really freak then out, and just… go away please. Then like the rest of the alphabet, because its complicated.

So in conclusion, if there are patterns as far as some websites to do with geek culture having this stance against LGBQT people, I think its more to do with other variables, young people, the nature of most websites (especially now that many traditional non geek groups are online and on the internet in modern times) the nature of being anonymous. I mean, I have seen long time users on Suicide/Depression boards… tell other users they should kill themselves, for being weak and cowardly, even though others have said the same to that user and or they feel that way themselves. People often vent and show the worse and most negative, frustrated aspects of themselves online, because the consequences aren't too severe. I only visit two "geek" type forums, so I might just be clueless though. I do however know a fair bit about peoples behaviors and attitudes and how they form and lots of other dumb junk. Hence the silly long nature of my reply/post. My bad.

CV also kind of feels small to me, and has a lot of regular users, even though I personally think there is too much general rhetoric of a negative, aggressive, and unnecessary hostile (and ironically oversensitive hostility and frustration) towards many ideas, groups, like… towards Religion, Atheism, Islam, Christianity, Feminism, Liberalism, Conservatives, Americans, non Americans, homosexuals, DC fans, Marvel fans, and so on, its usually generalized rhetoric, most people are kind in more direct interactions, especially when they are treated with respect and kindness as well. That can be lost in bigger websites/forums or places where people frequent infrequently and so don't build up connections, so less incentive to be patient and polite.

I answered the question. You're just not liking the way I did it.

you go out of the way to say that geek culture has parts that are toxic but you are rather oblivious to parts of the LGBTQ culture that are toxic. i supposed you haven't talked to gays or lesbians that pretty much say that established things should be pandered on their side because the male and female side has enough representation.

No.

I'm so gonna get roasted for this, but we're all tolerant, accepting people... right?

Using words such as 'gay' or 'f*ggot' as an insult IS NOT HOMOPHOBIA. Yet gays CHOOSE to take offense because of their victim complexes and need for attention. (Yup I'm definitely getting roasted). Here's the thing: words change. Must I remind everyone that gay used to refer to hapiness and not homosexuality? Is the fact homosexuals are called gay then offensive by saying they're the only sexual orientation that is happy? Of course not, that's ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as saying when people use gay as what it has evolved into now, a general insult, is someone insinuating that all gays don't deserve to be treated equally. That's like saying when someone insults someone by saying they have a short penis, thry are insulting every single person in the world with a short penis and treating them as second class citizens. It's stupid. Here in Australia the word "wanker" is an insult... does that mean everytime someone says that they're saying all people who masturbate don't deserve equal rights? No.

Stop caring about the word and start caring about the meaning behind it. You aren't going to gain equal rights by putting on victim complexes and bitching about everything you find offensive.

=-=so begins the shitstorm=-=

First off, why are you juxtaposing gay and lesbian people, and women and men? Don't you mean heterosexuals?

Secondly, what is wrong with demanding and/or creating fair representation?

1. because to me, gay and lesbian are two different orientations just like male and female. what you "feel inside you" and what is your current physical gender are two different things.

2. it's wrong if you are going to change established ones to pander to them because you ignored the people who liked the established. case in point, canon superman should be gay. why can't they be happy of an elseworld superman or a brand new character that is similar to superman be gay ?

I would say Geeks are more racist than homophobe. They are accepting of gays so long as it's white. Any change made to something where the skin color doesn't stay white and geeks become ass blasted.

I agree with that, in the sense that gender (aka what you feel), just like sexual interest. I also agree this is different from your sex/physicals. But I do not understand the point you are trying to make. When have gay people asked for more representation at "the cost" of male representation? That makes zero sense. They have asked to show more people of non-straight sexual orientation, yes.

2: What is wrong with changing up the orientation of a character, unless it absolutely makes no sense? In the case of for example James Bond, it makes no sense to make him gay, since he flirts with women all the time, so he is obviously not gay. That would be untrue to the character. But what about others? I really do not care about having equal representation, at all. But the numbers are so screwed up, to me it sometimes feel like straight people have a whole toy cabinet full of toys, but when a gay person asks for one of them, they are willing to fight over it, because they are greedy.

Also, the majority of long established characters, like Superman, were made during a time were LGBTQ people still were persecuted. Have a gay or lesbian main character in anything was highly controversial. Which is why we are underrepresented in fiction. Sure, we can think of original characters, and we do. But it is hard to get mainstream attention. By changing up an existing character, we create awareness for non-normative sexual identities.

And why wouldn't we. Is a superhero suddenly different because he or she is gay as opposed to straight? No, they are not, they are still the same. The only that changed is their sexual preference.

Why do you generalize "online gaming" as part of geek culture? Gaming is not considered exclusive for geeks or nerds, at least not anymore. If it ever was. Pretty much anyone can go online and call people slurs. They're not all geeks or something lol.

You didn't really provide any evidence and seem paranoid. You'll encounter people who are ignorant in all types of culture. I guess you'll just have to deal with it.

There are a lot of different types of gamers, sure. And arguably hardcore gamers are not necessarily geeks, and vice versa, but I think you can't deny there is a lot of crossbreeding.

I don't think you game a lot it seems? Go into a random COD lobby and come tell me there are not tons of gay slurs being used. Is that paranoia?

If somebody wants to hurt you're feelings, they will say whatever comes to mind that will be most likely to hurt your feelings. It's not that they are actually racist or gay hating, at least not most of them, they are just trying to offend.

The average twelve year old boy who screams "F*****" when he gets killed in Call of Duty doesn't hate gay people. He's just lashing out with the first word that pops into his tiny mind, and if he knows you hate that word, he'll just be more prone to use it.

Just ignore the dweebs.

I have honestly become somewhat desensitized when it comes to those slurs, because of how common it is. I was mostly wondering about people's opinions when it comes to the WHY of these people.

1. the beauty of the internet shows how people react to your likes and hobbies and i have encountered such certain minded people that would like to see such things occur but then again, the places i go in the internet tend to be extreme at the very least. you go deep enough in the internet, you will encounter them at some point.

2. because it doesn't make sense. when has canon superman shown gay tendencies that is not caused by some plot material ? it would make sense if there was a natural hint of some sort but there wasn't, a lot of it was caused by something unnatural to begin with. your example doesn't make sense because he/she's just asking for another toy, he/she isn't asking the toy maker to change the setup of that toy as whole. greedy ? why can't these people cherish the nostalgia of such setup ?

whether or not that character was created on the certain periods that certain representation is needed is irrelevant because you are essentially riding with that established character popularity. you can't create a good story that people would actually like to read regardless of their sexual orientation ?

a superheroes' life also involves their lives beyond the mask and it feels more natural to see a character struggle with their inner conflicts and come to accept their whole persona because people can relate to it at some level. this might be comic characters but they are at least human enough to have interactions to everyone.

@cpt_nice: Oh, well to be clear, I do think I know what you are getting at, based on assumptions I make. My assumption is that you and I would share a lot of natural and default positions and views, and agree about a bunch of stuff in general. Even though I don't know you well, just based on views you have expressed that I have seen and questions you have asked, and other things like assuming your sincerity. Realistically your choice is wording and phrasing was made for convenience reasons I would imagine, I mean… the last few years, most of the time I interact with people around my age group? Its online and its to do with geeky things, comic website, video game podcast, youtube shows about geek things. In real life I don't interact with people my age group that much, and so most of the aggressive, hostile, insults, attitudes, crass comments I see come from people who are a part of geek culture or would be associated with geek culture… but… I am also the kind of person that always tries to question my assumptions and intuition. So in this case, even though I sort of feel like I know what you are getting at… I wondered whether this might be more of an internet culture thing as well, running parallel and maybe even as a bigger factor, and then even then, in real life, the people who are most anti-LGBQT and homophobic are my old friends who were very religious, very traditional, slightly racist towards Europeans and white Americans, and also, super friendly, polite and nice to most people. Anti-LGB sentiment was just something passed down and taken as truth, and their wasn't much resentment or negativity towards trans people, because many Polynesian cultures already have similar preexisting ideas about multiple genders, or say males adopting traditional female roles and appearances. So then I considered the anonymous angle, because in modern times, a lot of peoples exposure and experiences with other people, to other groups and even ideas is second hand and further. Not direct first hand experience. That adds layers of complexity to many things for many different reasons.

I heard of a study or social experiment a few months back, (I don't really like social experiments done by random untrained people, but I think this involved some professionals/experts) and it was taking LGBQT people to met and talk to people who were against Homosexual marriage, first hand, direct human to human interaction, to see how that experience would change or modify peoples views, and the general conclusion was that the homophobic people or people against Gay marriage ended up with a more positive and kind view of homosexuals and LGBQT ideas after that interaction. Which I think makes some obvious intuitive sense, put people with opposing ideas into a room for a friendly conversation and sometimes they find out they actually agree about a lot of things. Otherwise politics, media, news, money, power, oversimplifies things, colors them, warps them, twists them, overcomplicates things, its… yeah, but whats the alternative? There are too many practical, commercial, artistic benefits to all of us interacting the way we do, I mean right now I am communicating with you and others online… of course the default internet communication interaction isn't negative or hostile either, that just happens to be one that is common.

I think some individuals use language like what you mentioned and others that have to do with mental health issues, and also broader sexual ideas, for various reasons. I mean, I want to try and avoid another long post, but teenage guys will often accuse other teenage guys of being a virgin. The implication being that the guy is too much of a loser, pathetic, beta, weak, ugly, loser, that he can't score any ass. All those negative ideas conflated to try and hurt a guy where they may feel especially vulnerable. Where do those negative connotations come from? Well society a bit, but also usually often the individual. So male guys who don't want to be considered a beta loser, ugly, pathetic, weak so on, accusing other guys of that. I mean thats not the only context. Just by looking at different demographics and groups, we can note certain things about the insults people use, and how it reflects the ideas and attitudes of the person doing the insulting. Naturally not just exclusive to generic male teenager, many gay men will insult other gay men for not being the right kind of gay. Old woman will probably have certain types of insults that are generally used more with old woman than other people, except those terms… well the young male demographic is really massive and would say have a higher amount of conflict and interaction than say the old woman group. Though I am sure there are many knitting clubs where Aunt Mary, 71 is secretly accusing Grandma Higgens 73, of being a loose slag suffering from dementia.

Then there are probably just people who use such terms because they think other people are too sensitive and politically correct and normal. Where as they are stoic and fearless and all about the truth, because they just read a book by Nietzsche, and they don't get offended anymore, because they are like… secretly really intelligent and deep, but in a way other people, society, their parents and that whore who rejected them for prom just don't understand. I mean… people shouldn't be so sensitive and easy to offend. Words are just words and stuff. Real talk you know? I am a deviant and i know it, I post on 4chan, you can't get more hardcore than that. You wouldn't understand though… (I am a word is just a word person myself, and I have read a lot of Nietzsche, and 4chan like many websites has a lot of diverse and different including interesting and funny people of course, my bit here is to reflect the mindset some individuals can fall into temporary because of teenage/young adult angst or err midlife crisis)

Then their are probably people who just use those terms because their friends do, or because they carry different connotations. I do actually have some gay friends who use gay in both a nice way and in the pejorative way. I don't get it myself, but I generally get them, so kind of understand in a roundabout way.

Oh and I agree with you about well, racist comments being less frequent, to my perception, but also to my personal perception, anti-LGBQT sentiment is also lessening… but again, just my experience. Which is limited, and I actually think its because "anti-SJW" sentiment is rising, kind of odd in one way, but now its not the two gay guys holding hands thats scary, but the teenage white girl who was born as man, on Tumblr, with dyed hair who is triggered by R.Mika slapping her bottom and then so censors Capcom that is the most serious threat to the Western World.

Yeah heh heh it makes me laugh as well, because heterosexual romance, sexual overtones, flirting, love, kinship, its extremely common. No, you don't have every lead character in a movie announce they are straight, and proud, as an example, its because its so prevalent, and often default, there is no need, artistically or commercially, or as far as portraying either an aspect of reality, (incorporating realism into a fictional story) or so on, and yeah sure, there might be growing pains when having LGBQT characters in stories, because in many places its more accepted, so now there is some commercial incentive to have more LGQBT characters in stories, but the artistic merit has always been there, and such growing pains exists for other groups as well. Just think of any entertainment mediums history with ethnic/race diversity. Black Panther, Luke Cage early appearances… its… and peoples receptions for such things will be different, but yeah. If your not straight aka normal then stop holding other peoples hands in public, such PDA is immoral and too gratuitous, basically is that very bad argument summed up.

I am fond of the idea of anonymous use on the internet, well, double edged sword. Not everyones situation is the same, I like the idea of say a Muslim in a predominantly Christian town/city or a Christian in a predominantly Muslim town/city, with the kind of community that would vilify and outcast them if they knew, being able to find escape online and be themselves and all the other variations around internet persona and real life persona - having a boss who can track your views about politics and then treat you unfairly so on, when I think of solutions as far as making the world a better place for all people, I tend to think better education systems for young people, so they have better ethics to better deal with people, differences of ideas and opinions, and being objective. Oh and better support systems for parents and caregivers as well, better parents means better children, means that each generation can be more understanding, patient, "tolerant" and secure with themselves and others. I mean, I am not really fond of memes myself (I am weird) but I do like those memes that show how in the future, those people who carry extremely hostile anti-LGBQT sentiment are going to appear to future generations. Of course… people who hold such strong anti-LGBQT sentiment probably think the world is going down the drain anyway and that death is a better alternative and that anti-LGBQT sentiment is Completely, Absolutely, Completely, Totally, different things.

Whoops another long post, my bad, but well such topics do tend to be pretty interesting to think and discuss with people about heh heh. Thanks. Oh and side note, I know you weren't using it in a negative way and just as an example, but CV has language rules, that request users not use the word you used thats commonly used as a pejorative to LGBQT people. I put the link there if you were curious. No warning or anything, again, know you were just using it as an example and you referred to it as a disgusting word to use in that context, but its easier to moderate users this way by just having a blanket ban on some words, that word being one of them. Just something for the future.

@cpt_nice:

"It is actually."

No, it isn't. Homophobia is the hate or fear of homosexuals. Gay and fag are used as general insults.

"So when someone is called a racial slur, the person speaking up about it has to keep there mouth shut or they are looking for attention? Makes total sense to me."

No. When someone on the other side of the world uses a racial slur flippantly with 0 intent of racism behind it and someone complains, then yes they're using a victim complex and looking for attention.

"Sure, gay on itself to describe happiness or someone attracted to people of the same gender, is in fact completely neutral. Gamers using it as a slur and sprinkling it around like it is sugar for anything they do not like, is in fact not ok."

Why not? Why was the first change of useage allowed but not the second? Why do one minority group get to decide how a word should be used? It's a general insult, deal with it.

"I think it is easy for you to say that, as I assume you are probably not gay. Gay people though are not particularly thrilled with their sexual orientation being used as a slur. Integrity, what's that, amirite?"

No, I'm not gay. I'll tell you what though, I'm part of a religious minority - I'm an Asatruar. And guess what, I'm far from thrilled that my religion is used as a massive staple for fiction and that my gods are by and large only known by their comic incarnations. Guess what else? When it comes down to it, I don't give 2 shits about any of it because I'm not insecure. If in 10 years people start using Asatruar flippantly as an insult, I wouldn't care as long as they aren't directly insulting me. Stop being so insecure, if you're gay then embrace it. Don't whine because some twelve year old on the internet called his friend gay.

"Except there is no real world laws that discriminate against people with short penises, nor do people get bashed for it, or do they receive less benefits because of it. This is all true for LGBTQ people."

I fail to see how this is relevant. People are indeed mocked, bashed, and treated as the quote on quote beta male for having small penises. My point is perfectly valid, if it's being used as a general insult then it doesn't mean its somehow degrading every single person that shares that trait.

"You do not get to tell people who are affected by discrimination what they should or should not care about."

So because I'm not part of a well known minority loved and supported by many in this world, my opinion is meaningless?

"And we are definitely not gonna get it because of people like you acting like you are some sort of authority on discrimination against oppressed groups."

I'm just a man with a phone stating my opinion. But like I said above, my opinion doesn't matter, right?

@cpt_nice: Lol. As soon as you say my opinion is worthless, that's when I know there's no point in debating you. Your entire post is about equal rights yet you can't extend that courtesy to others. I guess since I'm neither a murderer nor victim of a murder I can't have an opinion about that either.

@pipxeroth: Hey I am just some guy on the internet with an opinion, don't whine about it.

God if you expect me to read all that. And did you guys really have to quote the paragraphs smh

My bae is bi but she's pretty cool with her geekiness. Only time that she really gets out of hand is when she starts making me read her Super Natural yaoi fan fiction.

I am deeply sorry for you.

@cpt_nice: But you aren't a white straight cisgendered middle class male, therefore your opinion doesn't count.

See, I can play this game too.

Jeez, right in the feels.

@cpt_nice: Ah ha!

But all jokes aside, if you expect to be treated fairly, step 1 is to treat others fairly too. No ones opinion should be considered worthless because of who they are, otherwise you're no better than the people you're fighting against.

you are talking about canon iceman and people are reacting negatively to it. as far as i have read with iceman, he's suddenly gay all of a sudden. it certainly changes things because there was no hint of identity crisis at all. northstar was hinted to be gay but was never confirmed till in the 80s but then again his history already screams like that.

it shows that the LGBTQ people can't have an outstanding model to begin with since they had to take on someone else's popularity.

it is publicity because writers can actually write good gay or lesbian characters like midnighter, apollo, moondragon and mystique.

@cpt_nice: gorgeous girlfriend is gorgeous. so yeah, it doesn't bother me that much anymore.

Sure, but in this case, although you are of course within your rights to have an opinion (this is the internet after all), your opinion on gay discrimination is uneducated at best. What do you know about lgbtq discrimination if you have never actually faced it? I can have an opinion about discrimination of coptic christians in Egypt, but seeing as how I am not one of those people, I have not even lived in or been to Egypt, my opinion is not very useful.

I was not talking about any hero in particular, just in general. I also have no opinion on Iceman, but I do want to say, not everyone who discovers they are gay has an identity crisis. Just saying.

That is an overstatement. Also, one of the major things to take away here, is to stop using straight as the standard. People in fiction are straight by default, unless they come out as gay or bi. Why should this be the case? Why can't a character just be, you know, gay?

There are good LGBTQ characters out there, sure. Things have been going better recently, for sure. But there is still some way to go.

@cpt_nice: I have a close friend who is gay, so no I do not think my opinion is either invalid or uneducated. In fact I actually convinced him of the same thing I have been arguing here. So I stand by my statement: gay and fag are just words used as insults. Nothing more, and I think you'd find the amount of people that support lgbt folk to be quite surpising. However that may just be because so many people on the left are vicious so much so that many people such as myself who are opposed to gay marriage won't speak their opinions aloud because they're afraid they'll be ripped to shreds (in some cases literally). But anyway its very late and I need sleep, shoot me a pm if you want.

people don't switch orientations instantly and the comics need to tell a story on how it happened because it oversimplifies things to a point that a simple snap of finger changes someone accordingly. in real life, it happens silently but still obvious to that person. iceman just became gay all of a sudden.

it's not an overstatement if people can actually appreciate well crafted stories like midnighter and he's gay from the start.

Ha. Hahaha.

Hahahahahaha.

In all seriousness, I don't think it's geek culture, it's assholes who have gotten into geek culture. It's always the individual, not the group. Except for the Westboro Baptist Church and Scientology.

LOL. Compared to other forums, this place is like a dream. And let's not mention Youtube comment sections.