Gay marriage

@minigunman123 said:

@k4tzm4n: You assume teenagers are all intelligent and take the smart way out of things. >_> Teenagers are completely unbalanced because they're (we're) changing biologically and psychologically, we don't make rational decisions. The idea that "it's easier not to be gay therefore it's not a choice" is not correct reasoning; it's easier for many people to get an education early in life but they drop out anyway and have blue collar jobs and when the economy goes down, they're the first to be hit; it's not smart to be that way, it's just the way many people choose. The idea that the easy choice is always the one people take is false. It's easier for me to abolish religion, because you all hate on the fact my religion teaches homosexuality is immoral, but I still stick with Christianity.

@Erik: I have met many gay people, and the ones I ask have replied the way I described. Different crowds I suppose?

@mrdecepticonleader: Had a long topic about why I disagree with homosexuality a page or two (or three) ago... I'd refer to that, it explains my views quite nicely.

@InnerVenom123: And you're adding what to this conversation? If you want to bring something to the topic that isn't useful, try bringing silence ;)

@Illuminatus: Well... Anger is biological as are all emotions, but we choose when to show those, we don't just get born murderers or something. People are similarly not born gay in my opinion, though someone cited some sources for the reasoning behind it, which I will take a look at right now, now that I'm back from running errands.

Yeah, I've made up my mind about it, but I'm still trying to learn the reasoning behind the notion or idea that being homosexual is something you're born with. I DO think it's absolutely possible you're born with more susceptibility to wanting to be homosexual, but everything you do in life is a choice. If you think I'm calling it a BAD choice rather than just a choice, that's your beef. I'm still learning about the idea you all adhere to though, which is more than what most people should do, so I'm expecting nobody to get angry with me over this.

If the fact I disagree with the idea gets you angry, well, take a moment to ask yourself WHY you're angry with me, specifically what makes you mad at me, and put it in nice words, not calling me a jerk, or a$$, but just telling me like "I disagree with... because..." or if you're really upset, "you made me upset/angry/whatever when you said... because...".

I put those instructions there because I just know I'm getting into some deep trouble with some people now, and don't feel like reading rage-posts. >_>

Read this

@Illuminatus said:

Being gay isn't just a choice people make on a whim and then decide to stick to; it's biological. I've known a kid who has always been interested in the same sex since he was in the flipping sixth grade. Never once has he ever shown desire for female companionship. He's actually been in a relationship with the same guy now for over a year if my math is right, so these rumors and myths that gays are inherently promiscuous are false.

@Ebbm said:

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@minigunman123 said:

Why do people think you're born gay? I don't want "I just feel that way" or "they say so"

You know them gays. They meet up in packs every saturday to keep committing to the lie.

Oh wait.

No, that's stupid.

I did not suggest they're trying to decieve anyone, I merely don't think they have the facts. If you're born a certain way, it can be proved or at least evidence can be provided genetically or biologically. I think it's a decision that happens after an event, or events, that lead you to desire this lifestyle; many women I've met who are lesbians became lesbian some time after or directly following a rape incident. And by "many", I mean "more than 2", but the number is unclear because I didn't stay in close contact with them and eventually forgot some of them. Not because they were gay, we just didn't keep in touch. One of them I actually tried but she kinda disappeared on me.

First off you are incredibly offensive and ignorant. In a previous post you tell Stormultt not to present anecdotal evidence but you just used it here. Secondly, the majority of actual scientists and researchers believe sexual orientation is NOT a choice.

A quote from the APA about ex-gay "therapy":

"The participants in this body of research continued to experience same-sex attractions following SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] and did not report significant change to other-sex attractions that could be empirically validated, though some showed lessened physiological arousal to all sexual stimuli. Compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare. Few studies provided strong evidence that any changes produced in laboratory conditions translated to daily life. Thus, the results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE"

It goes on to say that ex-gay "therapy" can actually cause harm. It also says that a person's sexual orientation is determined by a combination of environmental and genetic factors, for example an environmental factor is hormones a fetus is subjected to in the womb. It states that it is NOT affected by who you have sex with or how your parents raised you.

About the lesbians you know who "became" lesbians after being raped, give me proof. You're demanding proof from everyone else, give us proof that these women did not always have a sexual attraction to women, or that they chose to date women instead of men because they became incapable of relationships with men after being raped.

And now I'm more convinced than ever in regards to the APA. There is apparently no gay gene according to them.

http://open.salon.com/blog/djohn/2009/05/12/american_psychological_association_no_gay_gene

@k4tzm4n: Sorry, "you all" was a bad term, actually, in regards to my comment about me abolishing my religion. But a fair amount of people do give me flak over it.

@minigunman123: Thank you. I'm sure plenty of people do, but I'm not one of them. I firmly think that people can believe whatever they want to. However, I'm against people using their personal belief to take away the basic rights of other individuals.

@k4tzm4n said:

@minigunman123: Thank you. I'm sure plenty of people do, but I'm not one of them. I firmly think that people can believe whatever they want to. However, I'm against people using their personal belief to take away the basic rights of other individuals.

Seconded

@mrdecepticonleader: I did read it, and I addressed it.

@k4tzm4n: Intellect has nothing to do with education, almost anyone can get a 2-year or even 4-year degree if they work hard enough. The work will be different for everyone depending on many factors including intelligence, but there's tons of ways to make education easier (tutors, online and in RL; articles and tutorials on the subject/topic; friends; books) if you're just not smart. Money is a temporary issue. You can earn money, get it from scholarships (everyone says "not everyone is eligible", but there are sooo many scholarships, and they're not all for grades, and there are tons of ones run by the state and not run by the state, etc.), take out small loans (or large ones, but those can be dangerous), and other things. Education also IS a good idea, for virtually anyone capable of going to college; because if you're more motivated to work in a factory or retail store for 20 years rather than go to college for 4 years and work somewhere fun and useful for the remaining 16, even if it's just RUNNING or helping build that same factory, then... Then I can't imagine what's going on in your head. You can get tons of jobs with a 4-year degree, just think of one, you can get it if you work hard in college, and most people can get at least B's if they work hard enough in college, even if they're not very intelligent. There is no logical reason not to at least try to go to college and find out what you're interested in studying and try to study it.

Similarly, there's no logical reason to be gay if you're being attacked and bullied for it; tons of people don't go to college or don't care, or drop out, and tons of people are gay. There are definitely many similarities. One path is easier, one is harder, people take the harder path quite often (and not just in being gay or going to college). Everything people do is a choice. It's a choice to go to college. It's a choice for me to want to have a girlfriend (not because I want sex, or because of physical attraction, but because of the emotional attachment and security of having someone care for you and being able to care for someone else. Someone else mentioned something about "craving vagina" in the thread to me, and I was quite repulsed by the notion...) It is a choice for everything... Everything psychological about people can be changed if they want to, how do you think people break (or try to break) addictions? Nothing is unchangeable. Everything's a choice.

Don't think I left anything out, lemme know if I did.

@mrdecepticonleader: Sorry, took me a while to write my other response, I was responding to your post that said "READ IT".

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I did read it, and I addressed it.

@k4tzm4n: Intellect has nothing to do with education, almost anyone can get a 2-year or even 4-year degree if they work hard enough. The work will be different for everyone depending on many factors including intelligence, but there's tons of ways to make education easier (tutors, online and in RL; articles and tutorials on the subject/topic; friends; books) if you're just not smart. Money is a temporary issue. You can earn money, get it from scholarships (everyone says "not everyone is eligible", but there are sooo many scholarships, and they're not all for grades, and there are tons of ones run by the state and not run by the state, etc.), take out small loans (or large ones, but those can be dangerous), and other things. Education also IS a good idea, for virtually anyone capable of going to college; because if you're more motivated to work in a factory or retail store for 20 years rather than go to college for 4 years and work somewhere fun and useful for the remaining 16, even if it's just RUNNING or helping build that same factory, then... Then I can't imagine what's going on in your head. You can get tons of jobs with a 4-year degree, just think of one, you can get it if you work hard in college, and most people can get at least B's if they work hard enough in college, even if they're not very intelligent. There is no logical reason not to at least try to go to college and find out what you're interested in studying and try to study it.

Similarly, there's no logical reason to be gay if you're being attacked and bullied for it; tons of people don't go to college or don't care, or drop out, and tons of people are gay. There are definitely many similarities. One path is easier, one is harder, people take the harder path quite often (and not just in being gay or going to college). Everything people do is a choice. It's a choice to go to college. It's a choice for me to want to have a girlfriend (not because I want sex, or because of physical attraction, but because of the emotional attachment and security of having someone care for you and being able to care for someone else. Someone else mentioned something about "craving vagina" in the thread to me, and I was quite repulsed by the notion...) It is a choice for everything... Everything psychological about people can be changed if they want to, how do you think people break (or try to break) addictions? Nothing is unchangeable. Everything's a choice.

Don't think I left anything out, lemme know if I did.

This viewpoint just seems completely ignorant to me.

@mrdecepticonleader: Why?

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Why?

You cant choose who you fall in love with.

@mrdecepticonleader: I wonder how widows get along in life then, what with not being able to love someone other than their dead spouse.

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I wonder how widows get along in life then, what with not being able to love someone other than their dead spouse.

What? some people dont but others do they move on depends on the person.But that still has little to do with what I said previously.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I wonder how widows get along in life then, what with not being able to love someone other than their dead spouse.

What? some people dont but others do they move on depends on the person.But that still has little to do with what I said previously.

OK. Before I bother going more into what I said, let me get some more data on what YOU said.

What do you think of love? Can you choose who you're going to be in love with? Can you decide to be with someone other than the person you're in love with? Can you be in love with multiple people?

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123: And you're adding what to this conversation? If you want to bring something to the topic that isn't useful, try bringing silence ;)

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I wonder how widows get along in life then, what with not being able to love someone other than their dead spouse.

What? some people dont but others do they move on depends on the person.But that still has little to do with what I said previously.

OK. Before I bother going more into what I said, let me get some more data on what YOU said.

What do you think of love? Can you choose who you're going to be in love with? Can you decide to be with someone other than the person you're in love with? Can you be in love with multiple people?

Love is a very subjective thing.Lust and attraction are very important and natural parts of love.I myself am like any other hertrosexual male are naturally attracted to females,there is no denying that,just like you yourself are.So why is it not natural for others to be attracted to the same sex or both?

@InnerVenom123 said:

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123: And you're adding what to this conversation? If you want to bring something to the topic that isn't useful, try bringing silence ;)

Eep! You found my pet dog!!! *Hugs*

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I wonder how widows get along in life then, what with not being able to love someone other than their dead spouse.

What? some people dont but others do they move on depends on the person.But that still has little to do with what I said previously.

OK. Before I bother going more into what I said, let me get some more data on what YOU said.

What do you think of love? Can you choose who you're going to be in love with? Can you decide to be with someone other than the person you're in love with? Can you be in love with multiple people?

Love is a very subjective thing.Lust and attraction are very important and natural parts of love.I myself am like any other hertrosexual male are naturally attracted to females,there is no denying that,just like you yourself are.So why is it not natural for others to be attracted to the same sex or both?

You answered only one question out of my entire barrage of questions...

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I wonder how widows get along in life then, what with not being able to love someone other than their dead spouse.

What? some people dont but others do they move on depends on the person.But that still has little to do with what I said previously.

OK. Before I bother going more into what I said, let me get some more data on what YOU said.

What do you think of love? Can you choose who you're going to be in love with? Can you decide to be with someone other than the person you're in love with? Can you be in love with multiple people?

Love is a very subjective thing.Lust and attraction are very important and natural parts of love.I myself am like any other hertrosexual male are naturally attracted to females,there is no denying that,just like you yourself are.So why is it not natural for others to be attracted to the same sex or both?

You answered only one question out of my entire barrage of questions...

Yes but all those questions had nothing to do with sexuality.

So is that everything then?

NO need for anymore debating on a subject which really didn't need debating in the first place,maybe you just needed clarification.

Felt this needed posting.

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123: And you're adding what to this conversation? If you want to bring something to the topic that isn't useful, try bringing silence ;)

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I wonder how widows get along in life then, what with not being able to love someone other than their dead spouse.

What? some people dont but others do they move on depends on the person.But that still has little to do with what I said previously.

OK. Before I bother going more into what I said, let me get some more data on what YOU said.

What do you think of love? Can you choose who you're going to be in love with? Can you decide to be with someone other than the person you're in love with? Can you be in love with multiple people?

Love is a very subjective thing.Lust and attraction are very important and natural parts of love.I myself am like any other hertrosexual male are naturally attracted to females,there is no denying that,just like you yourself are.So why is it not natural for others to be attracted to the same sex or both?

You answered only one question out of my entire barrage of questions...

Yes but all those questions had nothing to do with sexuality.

They had to do with you saying you can't choose who you fall in love with.

Just answer the questions >_>

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Felt this needed posting.

I'm not homophobic, homophobic means I'm afraid of everything that's either man or the same (depending on the language you use as a root for the prefix "homo-", Latin or Greek respectively). I'm not afraid of men, and I'm not afraid of stuff that's the same as other stuff.

If you're using it to mean I'm afraid of gays (which is what it means in this sense, the word itself means this) then you're wrong. It isn't unnatural, it is a choice, and you won't burn in hell for it.

I'm getting tired of this thread... Discuss amongst yourselves, I'm going to go back to using this forum the way it was meant to be used: For lulz and comic books.

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@minigunman123 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I wonder how widows get along in life then, what with not being able to love someone other than their dead spouse.

What? some people dont but others do they move on depends on the person.But that still has little to do with what I said previously.

OK. Before I bother going more into what I said, let me get some more data on what YOU said.

What do you think of love? Can you choose who you're going to be in love with? Can you decide to be with someone other than the person you're in love with? Can you be in love with multiple people?

Love is a very subjective thing.Lust and attraction are very important and natural parts of love.I myself am like any other hertrosexual male are naturally attracted to females,there is no denying that,just like you yourself are.So why is it not natural for others to be attracted to the same sex or both?

You answered only one question out of my entire barrage of questions...

Yes but all those questions had nothing to do with sexuality.

They had to do with you saying you can't choose who you fall in love with.

Just answer the questions >_>

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Felt this needed posting.

I'm not homophobic, homophobic means I'm afraid of everything that's either man or the same (depending on the language you use as a root for the prefix "homo-", Latin or Greek respectively). I'm not afraid of men, and I'm not afraid of stuff that's the same as other stuff.

If you're using it to mean I'm afraid of gays (which is what it means in this sense, the word itself means this) then you're wrong. It isn't unnatural, it is a choice, and you won't burn in hell for it.

I'm getting tired of this thread... Discuss amongst yourselves, I'm going to go back to using this forum the way it was meant to be used: For lulz and comic books.

I never said you were homophobic.I merely posted the video I didn't even make it a reply to you.

Glad I could prove my points were right too.

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm said:

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@minigunman123 said:

Why do people think you're born gay? I don't want "I just feel that way" or "they say so"

You know them gays. They meet up in packs every saturday to keep committing to the lie.

Oh wait.

No, that's stupid.

I did not suggest they're trying to decieve anyone, I merely don't think they have the facts. If you're born a certain way, it can be proved or at least evidence can be provided genetically or biologically. I think it's a decision that happens after an event, or events, that lead you to desire this lifestyle; many women I've met who are lesbians became lesbian some time after or directly following a rape incident. And by "many", I mean "more than 2", but the number is unclear because I didn't stay in close contact with them and eventually forgot some of them. Not because they were gay, we just didn't keep in touch. One of them I actually tried but she kinda disappeared on me.

First off you are incredibly offensive and ignorant. In a previous post you tell Stormultt not to present anecdotal evidence but you just used it here. Secondly, the majority of actual scientists and researchers believe sexual orientation is NOT a choice.

A quote from the APA about ex-gay "therapy":

"The participants in this body of research continued to experience same-sex attractions following SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] and did not report significant change to other-sex attractions that could be empirically validated, though some showed lessened physiological arousal to all sexual stimuli. Compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare. Few studies provided strong evidence that any changes produced in laboratory conditions translated to daily life. Thus, the results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE"

It goes on to say that ex-gay "therapy" can actually cause harm. It also says that a person's sexual orientation is determined by a combination of environmental and genetic factors, for example an environmental factor is hormones a fetus is subjected to in the womb. It states that it is NOT affected by who you have sex with or how your parents raised you.

About the lesbians you know who "became" lesbians after being raped, give me proof. You're demanding proof from everyone else, give us proof that these women did not always have a sexual attraction to women, or that they chose to date women instead of men because they became incapable of relationships with men after being raped.

I don't know why you THINK I'm being offensive, I'm the one trying to get the knowledge here, so don't be an ass and say I'm being offensive. I'm trying to explain what I have experienced, and trying to have people who think otherwise explain their viewpoints. You did so a bit, but you don't need to be a jerk about it.

As for proof about the lesbians I've met, we only have their word, which isn't proof, it's just the only experience I've personally come across; I've never met a gay person who says they're just born that way, most of them have told me it happened over time, possibly due to a traumatic event, or some other factor, other than being born a certain way. Certainly you don't believe people are born a certain way and have no choice in the matter? If that were true, why try to rehabilitate criminals? I'll look up the evidence you have provided, which I thank you for, but I'm not convinced yet.

If other people are going to throw empty insults, I'm going to disregard their comment. Keep that in mind. You win nothing by throwing childish insults to someone who's trying to understand all the different perspectives on a topic.

Instead of harassing people and not taking their word for it that they didn't choose to be gay you could have googled all of the info I posted. Again, all you provide is anecdotal evidence which, according to you, means nothing. The fact that you still ignore that being gay is not a choice even after providing you with the evidence you demanded makes you even more offensive and ignorant. You don't know what you're talking about and it shows, you have a biased opinion that's been proven wrong by science. I didn't throw childish insults, you're being offensive and willfully ignorant and I called you out on it.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

I'm not homophobic, homophobic means I'm afraid of everything that's either man or the same (depending on the language you use as a root for the prefix "homo-", Latin or Greek respectively). I'm not afraid of men, and I'm not afraid of stuff that's the same as other stuff.

Phobia -

1. A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.

2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.

It doesn't only mean fear. It also means dislike or aversion.

@minigunman123 said:

Yeah, I've made up my mind about it, but I'm still trying to learn the reasoning behind the notion or idea that being homosexual is something you're born with. I DO think it's absolutely possible you're born with more susceptibility to wanting to be homosexual, but everything you do in life is a choice. If you think I'm calling it a BAD choice rather than just a choice, that's your beef. I'm still learning about the idea you all adhere to though, which is more than what most people should do, so I'm expecting nobody to get angry with me over this.

If the fact I disagree with the idea gets you angry, well, take a moment to ask yourself WHY you're angry with me, specifically what makes you mad at me, and put it in nice words, not calling me a jerk, or a$$, but just telling me like "I disagree with... because..." or if you're really upset, "you made me upset/angry/whatever when you said... because...".

I DID NOT WANT TO BE GAY. I went through years of denial, depression and alienation for it. You are the one that is insulting, posting all this bullsh*t you just decided out of thin air and trying to put it on equal footing with actual research and my own personal experience. You didn't choose to be straight anymore than I chose to be gay, you're dumber than a bag of hammers if you think that is the case.

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm said:

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@minigunman123 said:

Why do people think you're born gay? I don't want "I just feel that way" or "they say so"

You know them gays. They meet up in packs every saturday to keep committing to the lie.

Oh wait.

No, that's stupid.

I did not suggest they're trying to decieve anyone, I merely don't think they have the facts. If you're born a certain way, it can be proved or at least evidence can be provided genetically or biologically. I think it's a decision that happens after an event, or events, that lead you to desire this lifestyle; many women I've met who are lesbians became lesbian some time after or directly following a rape incident. And by "many", I mean "more than 2", but the number is unclear because I didn't stay in close contact with them and eventually forgot some of them. Not because they were gay, we just didn't keep in touch. One of them I actually tried but she kinda disappeared on me.

First off you are incredibly offensive and ignorant. In a previous post you tell Stormultt not to present anecdotal evidence but you just used it here. Secondly, the majority of actual scientists and researchers believe sexual orientation is NOT a choice.

A quote from the APA about ex-gay "therapy":

"The participants in this body of research continued to experience same-sex attractions following SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] and did not report significant change to other-sex attractions that could be empirically validated, though some showed lessened physiological arousal to all sexual stimuli. Compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare. Few studies provided strong evidence that any changes produced in laboratory conditions translated to daily life. Thus, the results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE"

It goes on to say that ex-gay "therapy" can actually cause harm. It also says that a person's sexual orientation is determined by a combination of environmental and genetic factors, for example an environmental factor is hormones a fetus is subjected to in the womb. It states that it is NOT affected by who you have sex with or how your parents raised you.

About the lesbians you know who "became" lesbians after being raped, give me proof. You're demanding proof from everyone else, give us proof that these women did not always have a sexual attraction to women, or that they chose to date women instead of men because they became incapable of relationships with men after being raped.

And now I'm more convinced than ever in regards to the APA. There is apparently no gay gene according to them.

http://open.salon.com/blog/djohn/2009/05/12/american_psychological_association_no_gay_gene

I never said there was, like I stated it is a combination of genetic and environmnetal factors, they state it has nothing to do with how you're raised or who you have sex with. Maybe actually read what I post before spewing out your word vomit.

@Ebbm: Maybe you should grow the hell up. Wow. You're acting like a child.

@Ebbm, I also flagged your posts which were insulting to me, because there was no reason for it. Enjoy being investigated, I don't know if anything will happen or not, but you're just flaming me for my beliefs.

Would you feel better if I said I believe I should stone you? I don't believe that. Maybe you shouldn't be so angry with me. People aren't born gay, which is the entire assertion that's been made. People choose to react to things by becoming gay. You're not going to change what I believe by flaming me out instead of calmly reminding me of some facts I may have missed. News flash, there are tons of posters and tons of posts in this thread, I can't remember everything from all of them. I thought I responded to your post. If I didn't, you can be nice about informing me that I did not. So far k4tz is the only person I can say I actually respect MORE for his participation in this thread.

EDIT: One more thing, I DID choose to be heterosexual, because although stimuli for me turning gay exist or could be found in my life and I have wondered what it was like, I am actually not willing to go down that road. I'm attracted to women and I'm not going to change that. Don't you dare tell me it isn't a choice.

@minigunman123: I can't say that I agree with that thought process. I just don't view the similarities you're drawing between an educational path and sexual preference as valid. But, let's be honest here, neither of us are really going to change our minds. I likely won't give you an epiphany and make you go against a part of your faith that you clearly hold close to you, and I'm not going to suddenly start believing in the bible, lol.

That said, I've noticed you commonly bring up the difference between taking the easy and the hard choice. Do you have the mindset that people can fight homosexuality and eventually overcome it? And by the easy path, it means giving in to those thoughts? And if so, if you had to give an educated guess, what would you say could make an individual become gay instead of straight and why? And most important of all, do you believe homosexuals should have the right to get married even though you're against it? If not, why should your belief dictate others lives, and how would legalizing it have a negative impact on yours?

Hope you don't mind, I'm just trying to further understand your mind. I know we're not going to see eye-to-eye, but I'm curious.

On a somewhat related note, I thought some people might enjoy this:

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm, I also flagged your posts which were insulting to me, because there was no reason for it. Enjoy being investigated, I don't know if anything will happen or not, but you're just flaming me for my beliefs.

haha run and tell mommy because I called you out on your ignorance.

@minigunman123 said:

Would you feel better if I said I believe I should stone you? I don't believe that. Maybe you shouldn't be so angry with me. People aren't born gay, which is the entire assertion that's been made. People choose to react to things by becoming gay. You're not going to change what I believe by flaming me out instead of calmly reminding me of some facts I may have missed. News flash, there are tons of posters and tons of posts in this thread, I can't remember everything from all of them. I thought I responded to your post. If I didn't, you can be nice about informing me that I did not. So far k4tz is the only person I can say I actually respect MORE for his participation in this thread.

I never said anything close to saying you should be stoned, what are you talking about. You can believe whatever you want to believe, its just you don't have any personal experience or scientific evidence to back you up. My beliefs do, I even gave you evidence, you chose to ignore it by cherry picking the heading of an article you didn't even. You're only a little better than a troll, if you want to have an actual debate about these issues you should come with actual proof and more tact. You're basically calling millions of people liars with mental disorders as a result of abuse and rape. Forgive me if I don't give a crap that you're feelings were hurt because of this.

@minigunman123 said:

EDIT: One more thing, I DID choose to be heterosexual, because although stimuli for me turning gay exist or could be found in my life and I have wondered what it was like, I am actually not willing to go down that road. I'm attracted to women and I'm not going to change that. Don't you dare tell me it isn't a choice.

So you have experienced same sex attraction?

@k4tzm4n: Love the picture, and I'll reply via PM.

@Ebbm: You need to chill. Seriously.

@Ebbm: Not really, it's basically just "what if" and I abolish the thoughts immediately. Name me someone who isn't curious about what something is like that they've never tried, nor are they ever going to try. I also wonder what it's like to get shot, be a superhero, and scream at my parents. Curiosity killed the maladjusted teenager.

Equality ftw

In the United States at least, everyone should be granted equal opportunities. The fact that only a few states actually allow gay marriage really irks me.

I don't think anything's wrong with gay marriage. You can argue about is it a chose or are you born that way. It does not matter. Two people enter an agreement of marriage it doesn't matter if it's two men or two women. You chose who you want to be with and you should be able to be with that person. Someone else's belief should not impact your life. To me it seems that simple but I do believe in a free Americana and some don't.

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm: Not really, it's basically just "what if" and I abolish the thoughts immediately. Name me someone who isn't curious about what something is like that they've never tried, nor are they ever going to try. I also wonder what it's like to get shot, be a superhero, and scream at my parents. Curiosity killed the maladjusted teenager.

Curiosity doesn't mean the same thing as sexual attraction. You could never have chosen to be gay no matter how much you believe your curiosity could lead you down that path. The majority of research shows that sexual orientation, at least in men, is an in-born characteristic. Studies have shown that if one identical twin is gay the other has a 50% chance, its only 20% in fraternal. This indicates a genetic component. Scientists have shown that there is a difference in the size of different parts of straight and gay men. Also the more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be gay. Research indicates a mix of genetic and other biological factors, you won't find many who agree with you that every person chooses their sexual orientation.

@Static Shock said:

@Ebbm: You need to chill. Seriously.

What did I post that was so bad that you needed to respond?

@Ebbm said:

What did I post that was so bad that you needed to respond?

I didn't think calling someone dumber than a bag of hammers and antagonizing the same person by telling them to 'run and tell mommy' was necessary.

@Ebbm: I also saw your original post, as well. Don't think you can insult people and tell me not to get involved. That's not going to work.

@Static Shock said:

@Ebbm said:

What did I post that was so bad that you needed to respond?

I didn't think calling someone dumber than a bag of hammers and antagonizing the same person by telling them to 'run and tell mommy' was necessary.

People say worse on here all the time, but your right that was dumb and I apologize for that.

@Ebbm: I'm appreciating your calmer tone in this post, and perhaps there is a biological component. Something I've just started thinking over is, what if people may be attracted to others of the same sex but Christianity teaches us to go against it and always be with someone of the opposite sex? Hmm. Curious. A lot of the Bible DOES teach us to go against what's natural in favor of what's "right". Perhaps this is an extension of it?

@Ebbm said:

People say worse on here all the time, but your right that was dumb and I apologize for that.

Apology accepted.

@Static Shock said:

@Ebbm: I also saw your original post, as well. Don't think you can insult people and tell me not to get involved. That's not going to work.

That was before I saw you were a moderator. I deleted once I realized you weren't just some random person getting involved. People say worse stuff on here all the time and never get reprimanded by a moderator.

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm: I'm appreciating your calmer tone in this post, and perhaps there is a biological component. Something I've just started thinking over is, what if people may be attracted to others of the same sex but Christianity teaches us to go against it and always be with someone of the opposite sex? Hmm. Curious. A lot of the Bible DOES teach us to go against what's natural in favor of what's "right". Perhaps this is an extension of it?

I'm sorry for acting like a d*ck to you, it was uncalled for. I just get heated up about these things because they effect me very personally.

@Ebbm said:

That was before I saw you were a moderator. I deleted once I realized you weren't just some random person getting involved. People say worse stuff on here all the time and never get reprimanded by a moderator.

You sure? I've reprimanded people for much worse than what you've said. It's an everyday thing for me. LOL. Note that I haven't given you a full-on warning or anything, because I know you weren't being yourself. I just wanted you to calm down. That's all.

@Ebbm: It's okay. And I want it to be clear I was never insinuating that all gay people are rape victims or abuse victims and so on, I was just saying those are some of the more powerful influences in their move towards at least coming out of the closet. I'm not saying they are all victims of such things. I think it came off that way in my posts, but it wasn't what I meant.

@k4tzm4n said:

On a somewhat related note, I thought some people might enjoy this:

HA!

I heard that one the other day.

The pic makes it better.