Ferguson riots after unarmed young black man shot dead by cops-you can only push a community so far!

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Paracelsus

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Edited By Paracelsus

Several "conservative" commentators have criticized not just the recent riots in Ferguson, Missouri after a young and (apparently unarmed) black man was shot dead by local police( despite having his hands up!) but the subsequent looting of local businesses(NB they did not criticize the shooting of Michael Brown Jr per se- presumably in addition to DWB- Driving Whilst Black, SWB- Shopping Whilst Black, TWB_ Travelling Whilst Black, we must now add SWDANWB- Shot Whilst Doing Absolutely Nothing Whilst Black!).

First of all Mr Brown's family, despite their understandable anguish,along with local community leaders, Al Sharpton and Barack Obama, have expressly called for calm and decried the looting.

Secondly, this is the just latest in a long line of shootings of young black men by whites(cops and others such as self styled vigilante George Zimmerman)- Sean Bell, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner- you can only push a community so far before it feels the need to lash out(as we saw after 9/11 in America ,7/7 in Britain and the Birmingham pub bombings in 1974.) albeit in a deeply self destructive fashion( pace the recent spate of anti-Semitic attacks in Britain and Europe in the wake of Israel's assault on Gaza)

To quote Peter Finch's character in the 1976 film "Network"- "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it any more!"

Anybody think as I do?

Terry

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iaconpoint

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No.

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Spidey_Jackson

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#2  Edited By Spidey_Jackson

Ball. Of. Confusion.

Beata

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kyrees

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@paracelsus: if everyone out there think like you do, war world 3 would occur again. cooler heads are needed and reacting violently always is not a way.

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BatWatch

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I'm going with ball of confusion.

Look, nobody is happy that a possible innocent young man was shot. Nobody is saying the cops should get away with it. What most people are saying is, "Let's be peaceful and open." Rioting is not peaceful or open. At best, it is immature. At worst, it's evil and opportunistic.

To my knowledge, there is little more than hearsay information at the moment. To either vindicate or condemn the shooter or the one shot would be unwise at this point.

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the_stegman

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#5 the_stegman  Moderator

I'm sorry for the young man who died but rioting is just greedy and destructive and I will never condone it. How the hell is destroying public property and stealing going to get justice for the kid?

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i_dont_like_comics

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i don't like your tone when typing 'whites'. sounds racisty. also that community is dumb and will go to jail for being dumb.

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@i_dont_like_comics:

True though I doubt Paracelsus meant it that way.

If we want to look at race stats in the United States, it does not at all point towards a white on black crime trend. A murdered black man has a 93% chance of having been killed by another black person. However, this isn't a big slam on the black community; every race is murdered mostly by their own race.

The point is, race based violence is a rarity in the United States, and we should all celebrate that fact.

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w0nd

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#8  Edited By w0nd

@paracelsus: May I ask you what an outburst will do, except harm themselves? Why is smashing up a local business going to do? If they want another Ghetto, where no cop in his right mind will work so the only thing you can find are more shitty ones, then sure.

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Paracelsus

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As I made clear in my OP, I did NOT condone the violence and looting that accompanied the shooting of Michael Brown by a(presumably as the local force is said to be largely Caucasian) white cop, any more than does his family, Rev Al Sharpton or President Barack Obama, but my point is that when you push a given community too far, then the urge to lash out at its perceived tormentors becomes overwhelming.

And of course when rappers such NWA( N------s With Attitude) and Ice-T give vent to their grievances with songs like "F---k the Police" and "Cop Killa", self styled "conservatives" start braying about "ban these hateful lyrics"!

Talk about getting things ass backward!

Terry

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Saren

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As I made clear in my OP, I did NOT condone the violence and looting that accompanied the shooting of Michael Brown by a(presumably as the local force is said to be largely Caucasian) white cop, any more than does his family, Rev Al Sharpton or President Barack Obama, but my point is that when you push a given community too far, then the urge to lash out at its perceived tormentors becomes overwhelming.

Right, it can't be condoned, but it can be viewed through a sympathetic lens. Get real.

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Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

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This $hit makes me laugh. Like all these people rioting really care about the victim. Yeah let's show the world how much we care by rioting, looting and burning $hit down. Ignorance at its highest.

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Paracelsus

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My point in noting the "deeply self-destructive" ways in which a community can lash out at its tormentors(pace 9/11, 7/7, Birmingham pub bombings) is that in such circumstances reasoned reflections are in short supply. I DO wish people would read my OP in their entirety rather than just cherry picking comments out of context!

Terry

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kyrees

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#13  Edited By kyrees

@paracelsus: then you shouldn't quote peter finch and enumerate the long list of related violent reactions because it makes everyone think here that you are agreeing with the rioters. such actions are inevitable especially in such polarizing environment.

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nefarious

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All of this makes me SMFH.

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SOG7dc

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@lone_wolf_and_cub:

You know what's funny? It just came out that the cops actually started that fire.

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Lunacyde

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#16 Lunacyde  Moderator

I have no sympathy for thuggery. Violence and stealing isn't a reaction to torment it's blatant opportunism to commit crimes and get away with it. They are disgracing this poor kid who lost his life and their own community.

Like another poster has mentioned blacks kill other blacks on a scale and order of thousands of times more than white police do. It's tragic when any life is lost, but if they really wanted to make a difference they would be working in their communities to eliminate the real threats to their community, not vandalizing and thieving and making their community a cess pit of crime and violence.

That said yes, one life is too many. Punishment should be handed down if and when the facts of the case become clear and show the officer was in the wrong. Training should be improved regardless of the outcome.

This isn't a liberal vs. Conservative thread, it annoys me when you paint everything in the light of making conservatives look bad. No one cares, we care about the real issues here, not who can portray others who disagree with them poorly.

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kasino

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#17  Edited By kasino

he was just walking through as they protested Gaza. "arrest us too" the actual protestors shout.

during times of civil unrest unfortunately PEOPLE start to loot, although covered pretty differently

No Caption Provided

Finding vs Looting during natural disasters

the Ukraine riots and looting were covered and looked upon pretty differently

No Caption Provided

she's a cutie. I don't know how mascara helps in times of revolution but she saw a need to loot it and whatever.

honestly you can do this all day.

No Caption Provided

disturbing the peace.

No Caption Provided

freedom fighter

you could do the same with snipers pointing at federal agents. assault rifles being carried in public restaurants. a flag they stand behind that says "come and take it"

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Lunacyde

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#18 Lunacyde  Moderator

@kasino:

I don't care who is doing it, widespread violence, vandalism, and looting is wrong and I don't support it.

Also peacefully carrying "assault" rifles in public is not even remotely the same thing. That is a peaceful protest, which I support. It's when people start becoming violent, destroying others property, and stealing that I draw the line.

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Blade_R

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As I made clear in my OP, I did NOT condone the violence and looting that accompanied the shooting of Michael Brown by a(presumably as the local force is said to be largely Caucasian) white cop, any more than does his family, Rev Al Sharpton or President Barack Obama, but my point is that when you push a given community too far, then the urge to lash out at its perceived tormentors becomes overwhelming.

And of course when rappers such NWA( N------s With Attitude) and Ice-T give vent to their grievances with songs like "F---k the Police" and "Cop Killa", self styled "conservatives" start braying about "ban these hateful lyrics"!

Talk about getting things ass backward!

Terry

I don't know if you are standing up for or bashing N.W.A and Ice T but just know the music doesn't cause the violence, the violence causes the music.

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kasino

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#20  Edited By kasino
@lunacyde said:

@kasino:

I don't care who is doing it, widespread violence, vandalism, and looting is wrong and I don't support it.

Also peacefully carrying "assault" rifles in public is not even remotely the same thing. That is a peaceful protest, which I support. It's when people start becoming violent, destroying others property, and stealing that I draw the line.

I can't say that you don't care about they're race. It's easy for you to say you don't

Other examples of how race change the story were used however. you can go through them now if you like.

No Caption Provided

Peacefully carrying rifles is the same thing. When you point your rifles in sniper position at federal officers. Or clearly having a flag that is a threat to the government as your rally cry. The Ferguson protestors and Mike Brown were unarmed yet treated far more hostile then there gun tooting/try me counterparts. Yes things got violent after Sunday and a show of force was put into place from the start and continued with tear gas and rubber bullets, which caused the reactions that we both don't want.

I just didn't see swat geared at the Come and Take It protestors. A gathering of armed civilians wasn't seen as threat(despite a slogan that is). Even worst a white man can aim his rifle at the white house be talked down for 10 minutes and take a shot to the leg(not a kill shot we are told officers are taught). Or someone shooting up a movie theater somehow, some f**king way be able to be handcuffed and live to see trail. I just see unarmed protesters/civilians being treated as hostiles from start to finish.

I am mad at black people tho. All the work the Panthers done for openly carrying run rights and we don't use it. Although they would all be dead.

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GreatCaesarsGhost

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Sometimes a fire needs to be lit. Peaceful protest isn't always as effective.

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BatWatch

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@kasino:

Hey, it sounds like you have some interesting ideas, but I'm having trouble following you. Can you clarify your thoughts at all.

I do think carrying an assault rifle is equitable to a protest. It's a peaceful sign of resistance. However, neither rioting nor pointing a rifle at someone is peaceful. I'm thankful that the federal agents restrained themselves on the Bundie Ranch since I think any violence could have turned into a national firestorm, but the federal agents would have been justified in taking action against the man who pointed their rifle at them. Similarly, the rioters are hurting innocent people, and there is no justification for that.

Peaceful resistance is great. Civil disobedience is at times needed. However, violence against the state is a good way escalate tensions and misconduct. Unless you are ready to start a civil war, peace is the way to go when dealing with the government.

I agree that more black people should arm themselves. Many seem to believe that guns are bad, sadly. I do wonder if violence would be as large an issue in black communities if good people were armed. I suspect the violence would shrink dramatically.

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@kasino:

Could you imagine if people in Ferguson exercised their second amendments righst to bear arms right now?

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i_dont_like_comics

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@sog7dc: oh sure armed dumb people. that'll turn out well.

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SOG7dc

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#26  Edited By SOG7dc

@i_dont_like_comics said:

@sog7dc: oh sure armed dumb people. that'll turn out well.

Nice of you to just assume they're all dumb. Astute observation there. Also, when did I say that I want that to happen? I simply alluded to a hypothetical situation to highlight the racial inequality in this country.

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kasino

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#27  Edited By kasino

@batwatch said:

@kasino:

Hey, it sounds like you have some interesting ideas, but I'm having trouble following you. Can you clarify your thoughts at all.

I do think carrying an assault rifle is equitable to a protest. It's a peaceful sign of resistance. However, neither rioting nor pointing a rifle at someone is peaceful. I'm thankful that the federal agents restrained themselves on the Bundie Ranch since I think any violence could have turned into a national firestorm, but the federal agents would have been justified in taking action against the man who pointed their rifle at them. Similarly, the rioters are hurting innocent people, and there is no justification for that.

Peaceful resistance is great. Civil disobedience is at times needed. However, violence against the state is a good way escalate tensions and misconduct. Unless you are ready to start a civil war, peace is the way to go when dealing with the government.

I agree that more black people should arm themselves. Many seem to believe that guns are bad, sadly. I do wonder if violence would be as large an issue in black communities if good people were armed. I suspect the violence would shrink dramatically.

no. I feel I did a good job making my points clear towards the post I replied to. sorry if it isn't clear but I try to use proper punctuation and standard sentence structure in a way fitting a conversational tone.

I'm also happy with their show of restraint but I expected it to be as such.

I am not advocating violence in any post here. Do you think a civil war is needed? i don't think that is the wishes of anyone in either community. I wouldn't think in this age a civil war to stop the hostile treament of black Americans is needed. The idea of a race war has been floating around since the freedom of black Americans. Conspiracy theorist would say it's the fear of such of an event that keeps the hate filled views of blacks alive today....less restraint against the Come and Take It protestors would be the civil war.

it would be just as huge of an issue. good/bad people both have guns across all races. while violence and crime in black communities are high it isn't the lack of guns in the hands of those deemed "good'. black communities are usually highly populated with less schools per people. the schools that are their are given inferior text books and even teachers. schools are being closed and the communities would not know what a trauma center is. blacks are also jailed for crimes that would be given less time or no time to other races. job opportunities are given to blacks far less then those of other races. I like to believe education is the counter to violence, reason why i went to USC, but we all know that isn't the case, less likely for violent crimes but not crime. Others like to believe blacks are prone to violence(to me its home sweet home) but every poverty stricken community has high crime rates.

so if poverty and high crime rates go hand and hand. it is no wonder that with the disadvantages blacks are given in this country, highly populated poverty stricken black communities would have high crime rates. I would never, not saying you are, just see these people are this without divulging what could be the cause of such a perception.

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kasino

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@sog7dc said:

@kasino:

Could you imagine if people in Ferguson exercised their second amendments righst to bear arms right now?

yea, they would be dead.

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i_dont_like_comics

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@sog7dc said:

@i_dont_like_comics said:

@sog7dc: oh sure armed dumb people. that'll turn out well.

Nice of you to just assume their all dumb. Astute observation there. Also, when did I say that I want that to happen? I simply alluded to a hypothetical situation to highlight the racial inequality in this country.

well they ARE REALLY DUMB if they think picking up a gun is a good idea. these are the same people that used someone dying as an excuse to plunder. and are the same people that talk smack to cops and are in shock when they get busted and then yell 'racism. i didnt do nothin'.

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SOG7dc

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@sog7dc said:

@i_dont_like_comics said:

@sog7dc: oh sure armed dumb people. that'll turn out well.

Nice of you to just assume their all dumb. Astute observation there. Also, when did I say that I want that to happen? I simply alluded to a hypothetical situation to highlight the racial inequality in this country.

well they ARE REALLY DUMB if they think picking up a gun is a good idea. these are the same people that used someone dying as an excuse to plunder. and are the same people that talk smack to cops and are in shock when they get busted and then yell 'racism. i didnt do nothin'.

Again, show me where I ever said picking up guns was a good idea. It's a simple request. You should be able to pinpoint where I said I wanted them to pick up gunsor insinuated it was a good idea. Show me where I said that...unless of course you erected a strawman argument...but you wouldn't do that would you?

So you're adhering the actions of one small percentage of people to the entire population? Sounds...smart?

Uhm...you're aware that we have free speech in this country right? It's quite easy to find...right at the top of the Bill of Rights.

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kasino

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#31  Edited By kasino

@i_dont_like_comics said:

@sog7dc said:

@i_dont_like_comics said:

@sog7dc: oh sure armed dumb people. that'll turn out well.

Nice of you to just assume their all dumb. Astute observation there. Also, when did I say that I want that to happen? I simply alluded to a hypothetical situation to highlight the racial inequality in this country.

well they ARE REALLY DUMB if they think picking up a gun is a good idea. these are the same people that used someone dying as an excuse to plunder. and are the same people that talk smack to cops and are in shock when they get busted and then yell 'racism. i didnt do nothin'.

do you know the timeline of the protest?

have you seen the outcome of other times of civil unrest?

why no "g" at the end of nothin'?

do you honestly believe all the protestors or a majority of them turned to looters?

you believe yourself smarter?

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righteous300

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#32  Edited By righteous300

I can't help but wonder how all this would have turned out if it was a black cop.

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SOG7dc

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#33  Edited By SOG7dc

@kasino said:

@sog7dc said:

@kasino:

Could you imagine if people in Ferguson exercised their second amendments righst to bear arms right now?

yea, they would be dead.

Super-dead (this is comic vine, afterall)

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i_dont_like_comics

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@sog7dc: oh i'm sorry. a small percentage of black people have 'trouble' with the police yet all black people don't like the police and use that free speech that can be used against them and will get them shot. only a small percentage of course. wouldn't want to be called a generalist now would i.

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kasino

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#35  Edited By kasino

As a black person myself, I can't help but wonder how all this would have turned out if it was a black cop.

it has happened and protest has ensued. actually I believe in LA a protest is happening because man was shot multiple times in the back while facing down.

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cameron83

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@sog7dc: oh i'm sorry. a small percentage of black people have 'trouble' with the police yet all black people don't like the police and use that free speech that can be used against them and will get them shot. only a small percentage of course. wouldn't want to be called a generalist now would i.

Huh? All black people don't like the police? Perhaps it's the punctuation,but I am not sure if I a reading this right.

You can get shot and killed now just for saying something?

I don't think I am reading this right. If this is sarcasm or something,I am having trouble picking up on it.

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i_dont_like_comics

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@kasino: they said the protest turned to looting. majority of them turn to violence and or looting. because poor literacy is kewl. the majority of them. smarter than who? if you're asking me if i'd be smart enough to not run from the police when i know i didn't do anything illegal then yes i am smarter.

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@sog7dc: oh i'm sorry. a small percentage of black people have 'trouble' with the police yet all black people don't like the police and use that free speech that can be used against them and will get them shot. only a small percentage of course. wouldn't want to be called a generalist now would i.

This post is almost incrutable, but I'll try my best to weed through this trite. From what I can gather when you say that a small percent have trouble but all black people dislike police, I can assertain that you have an incredibly ignorant world view based upon the fact that you assume all black people dislike police. I can only assume that you think that we all think the same way. Of course, that's another generalization. Moving on, I can tell you that when one person is oppressed because of their skin color, then most people that have that same skin color will likely have something to say of that oppression. Still with me? Great. The part of your fragment about free speech doesn't make sense. Exercising free speech can get me shot? Do you see the lunacy their? Please tell me you do.

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#39  Edited By Cream_God

I'd rather wait for the trial to start with all the evidence presented before I give a opinion

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i_dont_like_comics

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@cameron83: no, you're reading it right. every time a black person is arrested and shown on tv, they don't comply with anything the officer is saying. i have yet to see someone keep a cool head in these situations.

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SOG7dc

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@cameron83: no, you're reading it right. every time a black person is arrested and shown on tv, they don't comply with anything the officer is saying. i have yet to see someone keep a cool head in these situations.

You obviously havent been watching the news or social media today. Two reporters were arrested for resisting arrest whilst holding their hands up and repeating over and over, "I am not resisting, I will comply". Try again.

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cameron83

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#42  Edited By cameron83

@i_dont_like_comics said:

@cameron83: no, you're reading it right. every time a black person is arrested and shown on tv, they don't comply with anything the officer is saying. i have yet to see someone keep a cool head in these situations.

Then I was right to cringe from the severe stupidity. But,wow,I never knew that every black person didn't like the police. That should be a defining trait about us,then.

I know right? On TV,it's ONLY the black people that will have a problem with getting arrested. You don't see those pure whites doing it,amiright? Just those savage black people....

How about I just shorten it by saying that what you said just didn't make sense,or it was false. Plain and simple.

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i_dont_like_comics

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kasino

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#44  Edited By kasino

@i_dont_like_comics said:

@kasino: they said the protest turned to looting. majority of them turn to violence and or looting. because poor literacy is kewl. the majority of them. smarter than who? if you're asking me if i'd be smart enough to not run from the police when i know i didn't do anything illegal then yes i am smarter.

who said this?

did "they" also say the majority of protestors turned violent? in no way did a majority of protestors turn violent. there was some vandalism and looting from a very small portion after the hostile treatment shown towards them.

I don't know know what your doing. Are you being funny? Are you saying the protestors are illiterate or myself to be so? who says kewl?

no didn't ask that. I doubt your ever been in such a situation or any situation. i was asking do you believe yourself to be smarter then the protestors?

you didn't answer some of the questions but I think i can guess.

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@cameron83: i never said that white people don't do it. just that black people are being shown to do it always.

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cameron83

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@cameron83: i never said that white people don't do it. just that black people are being shown to do it always.

So, why put emphasis on black people?
And, are you telling me that every single black person arrested puts on a show,throws a fit,yells "racism" if it's not,etc etc? Then my point would still stand about the sheer amount of ignorance from your posts. I mean,you must be freaking kidding.....

What's next? Every black person does drugs,too? Every black person is a school drop out? Every black person hates the police? Every black person is religious?

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SOG7dc

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@sog7dc: show me the news.

1- http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/13/ferguson-police-race-brown-killing/14030889/

2- http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2014/08/14/14041995/

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SilverPool

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You can only push a community so far... until they decide to cause property damage and loot their own town.

Bunch of f***ing morons.

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Wolfrazer

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#49  Edited By Wolfrazer  Online
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SOG7dc

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You can only push a community so far... until they decide to cause property damage and loot their own town.

Bunch of f***ing morons.

I'd just like to clarify that only a small percentage of oppurtunists participated in looting. Also, I think your post is an unfair characterization of the greater movement. This is bigger than Michael now. This is now about rights and equality.