Donald Trump General Discussion thread

Tramp keeps talking about fake news, what he doesn't realize is that every thing a president say's is News. The things that keep coming out of Tramps mouth are fake and or alternative facts. You can surmise that the only fake news is coming out of his own mouth.

Nope, that was a joke and plainly meant as one. With everything else he's doing wrong why focus on that?

Let's face it with the current leadership in either party we're all just a few hours or minutes away from complete collapse. Does anyone really think the democrats could do any better? They'd be a bit less flamboyant, but their own arrogance, ambition and megalomania would be there to equal anything President Trump could put out, the only difference is they'd do it quietly and most of the press would cover for them. The only thing we can do is hoard food, knuckle down and hope to survive the coming apocalypse.

@mark_stephen: How was it a joke when it actually happened? If someone Jokes and asks ISIS to attack someone don't you think we should take that serious? This is the same exact thing, say what you want, but it wasn't a joke, he always has an excuse and doesn't take responsibility for anything, even when he is plainly lying. If this was a joke why did the NSA chief resign? If this is a joke why are the intelligence agencies investigating what happened during the time when this statement was uttered? The only Joke here is the presidency of Tramp Agent Orange.

@mysticmedivh: That's the point. Nothing happened on the weekend for Sweden. Your source states.

@mark_stephen:

Nope, that was a joke and plainly meant as one. With everything else he's doing wrong why focus on that?

I choose to focus on it because it's treason, since when has treason become acceptable? Yes I do believe that the dem's would have done much better, look what happened under Bush, and look how Obama cleaned up his mess, Tramp said he inherited a mess, yet more excuses, the only thing Tramp inherited was a fortune.

Let's get this out of the way. I DO NOT LIKE PRESIDENT TRUMP. I DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM, AND I DO NOT MUCH LIKE THE JOB HE'S DOING.

HOWEVER.

Important excerpt from Article III of the US Constitution:

Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

Just suggesting we should be more judicious with the term treason.

Wait that E-Mail joke is considered treason now? LOL wow

@heroup2112: Of course you are right we should be judicious with that word, but I think what Donald Trump has done actually fits the official description that you posted such as.

No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in

His statement was witnessed by more than two people, he did this on national TV witnessed by millions. Did he not ask Russia to launch a cyber attack on Clinton? A cyber attack is still an attack and an act of aggression, that's why we sanctioned them.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

The first part above I have already addressed, Trump called for a cyber attack, I know this is hard to believe, but it actually happened, this wasn't a joke, Trump has given aid and comfort to Putin that's why he won't release his tax returns, he has comforted him by speaking highly about him every single time, Trump knew about Flynn's contact with the Russians, he was in contact with Russian intelligence agent's during the campaign, how is that not Treason? Why did he resign?

Again, it's very hard to pin down what is a "joke" or not. Trump very definitely SHOULD release his tax returns. While it isn't required, it would clear MANY things up, and restore (or simply give him) confidence. As to WHY he hasn't done this is impossible to say. We can certainly GUESS, but no one can possibly say his not releasing them has anything to do with the Russians. As for him speaking highly of Putin, this isn't giving "aid and comfort" to an enemy as we aren't at war, or (until recently) even in open direct conflict with Russia at the moment. We also don't KNOW Trump was in direct contact with Russian intelligence agent's during the campaign. Everyone on the Republican side claimed to KNOW that Clinton was in bed with Saudi and Syrian (the stink of this was that they were Assad's people) agents during the campaign. We live in the United States, where the rule of law reigns. It SUCKS that those with some power can sometimes use this to skirt or obfuscate the truth. However, my point is that it's HARDLY a thing that Trump has invented.

President Obama actually BOWED to the Saudi King. Almost all of the 9/11 highjackers came from Saudi Arabia. A lot of people on the other side thought this was treasonous.

Treason is a very specific crime with very specific circumstances, merits, intents, and precedents.

In simple terms, you have to prove that A. The suspect is working with an enemy in a time of war. B. The suspect is colluding with a foreign power to harm the interests of the United States.

Cozying up to a foreign agency to advance your own political agenda is ILLEGAL certainly, and you can be tried and convicted if found guilty. It's just not treason.

Wait, i'm confused. Does trump watch Fox news?

Last I heard fox news was the evil lying corrupt liberal media all conservatives loathe, and were prohibited from watching along with CNN.

I swear this thread makes me more confused every time i look at it.

Wait, i'm confused. Does trump watch Fox news?

Last I heard fox news was the evil lying corrupt liberal media all conservatives loathe, and were prohibited from watching along with CNN.

I swear this thread makes me more confused every time i look at it.

lol Now I'M confused. Is this something Conservatives actually say to try to excuse Fox News? Or are you poking fun at Fox News?

@heroup2112: I hear what you are saying loud and clear, but the fact that is he still asked a foreign entity to attack a United States institution, there is just no getting around that, this isn't a joking matter, I don't know anyone that has taken this as a joke. I just don't see how you can joke about something like this. If Roosevelt asked Japan to bomb pearl harbor and it actually happened, would he have gotten away with this? Would people try to make excuses for him and say that it was just a joke? Remember Trump asked Russia to do this and then it actually happened. He even sided with the Russians against our intelligence agencies, I don't know about you, but I have a feeling something really shady is going on here.

Also if this was such a joke, than why is congress clamoring to investigate it, based on something that Trump actually openly said? Flynn was caught on tape discussing sanctions with foreign intelligence officials, and Tramp new For almost a month and chose to do nothing about it? This is Shady.

@black3stpanth3r:

There are several things at play here.

1. Yes I think it's very shady. I think HE is very shady.

2. I think MOST politicians are very shady.

3. The Russians, and most other powerful countries (this isn't something I think, this is something that is done, without doubt), sometimes even our allies, spy on each other. Opposing nations conduct operations against each other (we do it too), Russia has been doing this to us (trying to influence our policies and elections as far back as WW2. The idea that a. Russia acts at the OPEN request of any US Politician just makes no sense. b. The idea that the Russians would use a dumb ass politician's dumb ass statement as cover for an operation that is meant to discredit, destabilize, and/or cause our citizens to lose confidence in our system (a high priority for them), makes perfect sense.

4. Real operations of this kind aren't done out in the open if at all possible. If they're successful, the other side won't know about it...unless it's too late. If they're unsuccessful, they leave some poor sap to get blamed...like the two Russian guys that got arrested in the aftermath of all this.

5. (Almost) always, if an American gets caught being complicit in something like this they go down. If they're too powerful to get prosecuted, they quietly go away. They retire, or become very quiet, or some scandal forces them to leave the public or professional stage. Seen or heard anything from Hillary Clinton in the past few months?

There is a much larger issue (and always has been) than public figures, and political parties when it comes to intelligence operations between rival (sometimes even non-rival...for instance, believe it or not, we spy on England and they spy on us) nations.

The Russians just got busted this time. The difference between us and Russia (or China for example) is that when one of our intelligence operations goes wrong over there, people die instead of just getting embarrassed or arrested.

@heroup2112: 3. The Russians, and most other powerful countries (this isn't something I think, this is something that is done, without doubt), sometimes even our allies, spy on each other. Opposing nations conduct operations against each other (we do it too), Russia has been doing this to us (trying to influence our policies and elections as far back as WW2. The idea that a. Russia acts at the OPEN request of any US Politician just makes no sense. b. The idea that the Russians would use a dumb ass politician's dumb ass statement as cover for an operation that is meant to discredit, destabilize, and/or cause our citizens to lose confidence in our system (a high priority for them), makes perfect sense.

Again the fact that we engage in espionage is irrelevant, we have a president that embraced a country that attacked us, and even dismissed the conclusions of his own intelligence agencies. Say what you will but we haven't had a president that openly embraced a regime that attacked us, if there has been please show proof of this. The idea that Russia acts on behalf of a politician isn't that far fetched of an idea, just look at Flynn's discussions with the Russians on sanctions, Russia was going to retaliate but got certain assurances from Flynn, which would tie into the narrative of Tramps conflicts of interest. It's not that far fetched that the Russians wanted to interfere with the elections when they have done that already in parts of Europe and now here in America, and Tramp embraced them over his own country. Of course they would use a dumb ass politician because they can control him better than Hillary, if the FBI is convinced that Flynn could have been black mailed, imagine what would happen with Tramp. The best thing for Tramp to do is release his tax returns, but he won't do that because he obviously has something to hide. Think about it why else wouldn't he, what would have to lose? He insisted that Obama release his birth certificate, but now he wants to put to bed the notion of him releasing his taxes. I am convinced there is more to this story that is going to come out, and we will have nothing to do but to observe the madness unfolding around us.

@black3stpanth3r:

As I've said before, I believe that Trump absolutely needs to release his tax returns, for several reasons.

As I also stated, Russia (and at LEAST China) have long been doing their best to destabilize our (and as you've pointed out, other countries) operations. For the most part, our own assets have been able to prevent the lion's share of their attempts, but certainly not all. They for CERTAIN did so as far back as WW2.

Again, I don't like Trump, I don't like that he's shown deference to Russia (although there's a decent reason for doing so, just not to the degree he seems to be doing it), Trump has several conflicts of interest in several areas, what I'm saying is they simply don't get near the area of treason. Certainly not without a mountain more proof than just the speculation that you've provided.

Trump is a dick, Trump is a liar, Trump may well even be dangerous (within the confines of the Constitution, which he's already found out confines him more than he likes), but it would take a LOT more than an open statement in the press to find him guilty of actual treason.

Nah i'm poking fun. But seriously, does he watch fox news? I thought fox news fell under the category of liberal media?

Nooooo, Fox News is a seriously conservative media outlet. Liberals often call it faux news. :)

Your making me more confused. I'm getting scared.

@jaycool2:

Sorry, I'm not trying to.

Literally. Fox News is a network that is very conservative leaning. Liberals tend to hate it, the way most conservatives hate CNN.

If you've ever heard of Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly. They're on Fox News.

McCain is right, this is how dictators get started. Create a culture of hatred and lies, find a convenient scapegoat, and then try to repress and subvert the free press.

Don't worry, I was joking

Didn't know they were conservative, i honestly thought the were liberal... I should pay more attention. Then again these are american matters so it shouldn't concern me too much.

@willpayton: McCain is right, this is how dictators get started. Create a culture of hatred and lies, find a convenient scapegoat, and then try to repress and subvert the free press.

^This, it's kind of scary aint it?

“As president-elect, he should have a strong interest in presenting a united front against Russia’s interference with the electoral process at the core of American democracy,” wrote Mr Shattuck. “By denigrating or seeking to prevent an investigation of the Russian cyberattack. Trump is giving aid or comfort to an enemy of the United States.”

^This is what a constitutional law professor said.

It was during a campaign where no one seemed to be able to find Mrs. Clinton's emails except wikileaks who seemed to have everyones emails. As I recall the rumor at the time was that the Russians had given the emails to wiki so Mr. Trump joked that maybe they could find the emails that had been deleted. If you want to focus on that as proof of treason then you'll fail to convince anyone who isn't already convinced. Focus on what he is doing wrong now, but I advise you to clamp down on stuff like "Tramp Agent Orange" because you don't have a prayer of convincing anyone with that kind of language. The people who like Trump will just dismiss you as a far left loon and the people who agree with you aren't the ones you need to convince.

If Roosevelt asked Japan to attack Pearl Harbor during a rally I am sure people would call this treason, Trump asked Russia to launch a cyber attack which impacted the election, how is that not treason. He asked the Russians to do it and they obliged.

@mark_stephen: They called Obama far worse than that. You might have a point except for the fact that the FBI said that there is evidence of collusion between the Tramp campaign and Russian Intelligence even prior to that statement.

Simple rule with the media: Trust none of them, believe none of them. Not fully on politics anyway. If there is a disaster or something like that I think we can trust them, but as far as politics goes everyone has an agenda and viewpoint to push and none of them are subtle about it. To most of the media a republican is guilty until proven innocent and then he's guilty of something else anyway, a democrat is innocent until proven guilty and even then it's still not as bad as what the republicans do. You can flip that for Fox and some other news organizations, but for 80% of the media that's what holds true in my opinion.

@mark_stephen: I don't really need to convince people on the extreme right and that's not my aim, I am trying to focus on independents. The people on the far right said that Obama was a Kenyan Born Muslim even though there was zero evidence of this. Tramp made these statements in broad daylight. If they disagree with me, have them present some facts that aren't alternative.

@mark_stephen: You say not to trust the media, but you trust Tramp even though he bold face lied and does that every day? You trust alternative facts? I believe the media over Trump, after all he seems to have so much to hide, show us your taxes and prove there is nothing to hide.

This is my prediction , it's not totally bold and far fetched, but I think Tramp is going to get a taste of his own medicine. Someone somewhere is going to hack Tramp not his e-mails but his tax info is going to leak somehow, or some other connection with him and our enemies. Show me another president that openly endorsed an enemy that just attacked us.

Trump's "jokes" inviting an adversary to wage cyberwar against the U.S. appear to violate the Logan Act and might even constitute treason.

^another constitutional lawyer said this.

Mr Tribe cited the Logan Act, which states that any citizen of the United States who corresponds with a foreign government with an intent to “influence measures” in relation to any disputes or controversies within the United States may be fined or imprisoned.

lol Yeah, we're a screwy bunch. ;)

I would consider FOX news to have been an enemy of the Obama administration, but at least he sat down and did an interview with them a few times actually, early on in his presidency. Is Tramp going to do that with CNN, NBC, ABC, or any of the other news agencies that he put on blast?

@black3stpanth3r: Good points.you've made I called it treason back during the election. He may get away with it by doing what he always does and ignore it or call it fake news or whatever but doesn't change the facts. Always blames it on the far left?? Doesn't he know Republican and dems of all kinds not just the left are against him?

@black3stpanth3r: What about the British straight out telling pence NO things are NOT OK. And British Parliament voting against trumps visit is lol

@heroup2112: Not all of you :)

Many of you can be pretty nice

Heh, we can be NICE, but we're still screwy. :)

@destinyman75: exactly, and he always lies about stuff that he said even though it's been recorded on camera or voice recording.

Why do you think I trust President Trump? And really I don't care about his taxes. He is a business man from New York, almost by that definition he's probably done some crooked deals, but I'm sure they're equal to the deals the Clinton's did. It's not that I don't care, it's just that I know there's nothing to be done.

How many independents will you convince when it's obvious from the start that the only thing Donald Trump could do to win your approval is to write a note of apology for his existence and then commit suicide? Hate rarely convinces anyone of anything.

Why would you believe the FBI?

@mark_stephen: You may not care, but a majority of Americans do care about his taxes. He is not the first billionaire to be president or run for President, but he is the only one in his position to not release his taxes, I can't think of anyone running for President or who became President to not release his taxes. If you really want to know how he can get my approval, it has less to do with him committing suicide and more to do with Transparency. Right now he has the least Transparent white house in history, just based on releasing his tax returns. In order to gain my approval I want him to show some thicker skin, he is too thin skinned when it comes to the media, he should stop being so evasive and talk the truth. There are too many things to list here , but if he was to actually make an effort to stop all the divisiveness he is feeding into, I would be supportive of that.

@mark_stephen: It wasn't just the FBI it was the entire intelligence apparatus and they all came to the same conclusion, and we know from history that these agencies don't always get a long and they came to the same conclusion. If this wasn't true why would Flynn resign? I would trust almost anyone over tramp because of how blatantly he lies, he lies about the media, he lies about phony terrorism things, he lies about crowd numbers, he lies about electoral college math, and he is lieing about the reasons for not releasing his taxes. I would trust my ability to sell sand to an Arab before trusting Trump.

You might be supportive, but would it really change your opinion? If there is something in his taxes -for that matter if there is nothing- his political opponents will find something in his taxes and use it to attack him. Yes he is thin skinned and no he isn't transparent but to tell you the truth I think I prefer his crazy antics to the sly wink and a nod that normally rules Washington. Not by much, it's a choice between arsenic and strychnine in your tea.

I can remember when the FBI was principally concerned with ferreting out communist spies and radicals no matter what they had to do and who they had to destroy to do it. There was never a civil right that Hoover couldn't ignore and never a fact that couldn't be fudged to make him and the FBI look good. The CIA's history is even worse and I'm not even sure about the rest of them. Again it comes down to 'why believe them'?