Cal Lightman (Lie to Me) vs. Patrick Jane (The Mentalist)

Dr. Cal Lightman (Lie to Me):

vs.

Patrick Jane (The Mentalist):

Who would win in a game mentally and psychologic?

Yes, this is the one!

While my instincts say Jane... Cal is his equal. But the worst thing is Cal has a tendency of out-foxing his own trained staff while Jane tends to play with Lisbon etc. Cal would read Jane, Jane not so much towards Cal.

I give it to Cal 5-6,7/10...

good day

I'm backing Cal on this one as well

Patrick Jane fairly easily. I don't think he can tell if Jane is lying and Jane tops him in everything else.

Cal is superior at reading people, he just is. Patrick is really, really good, but Cal is THE best, he discovered micro-expressions and almost all the science in the show is based on his findings [In universe, obviously in real life it is Ekman]. Jane's only real advantage is trickery, in overall cunning and deception Cal takes it. I know Jane has an eidetic memory, but Cal may also have one, he remembers minute micro-expressions from random encounters from 3-4 days prior. Patrick is better in general deductive reasoning but not by much. Cal wins on average 7/10. Cal's one of the smartest TV characters in my opinion, Patrick Jane's isn't quite there in my opinion.

@rogueshadow:

I'm going to have to side with Patrick. A person can have all the physical facial expression of sincerity if they believe what they are saying is true, hypnosis and suggestion. "People see what they want to see." Patrick has the ability to implant suggestion turning it into "people see what Patrick wants them to see." Patrick plays with the mind of everyone around him, including himself. Patrick utilize psychology, mathematics, science to degree close enough to be called psychic by those around him.

If push far enough, in defensive position. It is well within Patrick ability to hypnotize himself into believing that he is another person and have an elaborate plan to lead Cal in a goose chase. It could be days, months, years after the case is over and Patrick stumbles upon a picture, key word that has been planted before hand to awaken his suppress memories, personality.

In offensive position: Patrick has a strange ability to build rapport/trust with complete strangers. He can actually use the people around Cal. Remember believing is not lying.

Patrick reads people differently then Cal. In particular to where suspects have to be. Patrick doesn't need to put suspects in a interrogation room, he usually release them so that he can get evidence, because when suspects are in their environment suspects are easier to read. This give Patrick more wiggle room.

So it depends on where the confrontation is out in the field or inside a interrogation room. Patrick can certainly hold his own inside and outside.

@9dragons: Sorry, just saw this. Cal is a trained psychologist, applied psychology, in general that means nothing to Patrick, but he is not deceiving Cal in any way, whereas Cal can actually trick Patrick in my opinion. Cal's only ever been outdone when his emotions got in the way, which was once. Patrick relies to some extent on physical deduction, Cal doesn't, though he has proven capable of that too. It's literally impossible to lie to him. Loker used a muscle relaxant and Cal still knew. I think that once Cal gets a baseline for Patrick, he wins.

He's not building a rapport with Cal, the man is a walking polygraph but approximately 10,0000000000000000000000000000000000000 times more efficient. Plus he's highly antisocial and incredibly perceptive even outside of body language any subversion techniques, subliminals, trickery etc will not work on Cal. I would also say that if this were a long term strategy Moriarty vs Sherlock deal, he's a lot more tactically adept and physically adept

If Cal passed himself off as a psychic nobody would know.

Plus, he literally invented a branch of science, Paul Ekman style.

Bump.

Skimming through both series parallel, I think patrick's got this. Cal's methods seem more effective because of the technical details given, while patrick's are generally accompanied by his child-like behavior. But overall, patrick's magic seems more efficient to me. His skills reach into various areas, sometimes reaching borderline supernatural. I think his expertise on mind would give him advantage over cal's body language (?) detection..

(Finishing season 1, easiest comparsion would be the military case. Patrick's entry statement would be.. why are you lying? I mean, you clearly are hiding something important, I just don't know what. And then looking at other members would mean a dramatic declaration of solved case.)

Tim Roth wins because he's Tim Roth and the other one isn't.

Tim roth is a myth. He's a lie.

Tim Roth disagrees.

@joygirl said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@joygirl said:

Tim Roth wins because he's Tim Roth and the other one isn't.

Tim roth is a myth. He's a lie.

Tim Roth disagrees.

A brilliant lie. But a lie nonetheless.

I literally just watched Lie To Me for the first time today, hopped on Comic Vine, and saw a match with Cal.

See? I get the timing for a bump correct. :D

Have you watched mentalist, though?

Unfortunately not, which is why I didn't give my opinion on the battle.

Violate s the rule that one character must be from a comic

Sad :(

Nobody gives a crap about that rule.

Moving this to off-topic.

Exactly this are the main reasons why Patrick is superior than Cal, the only that matches Patrick is Poirot.

Exactly, Mentalist is superior to Cal, just look at @9dragons answer.

"A person can have all the physical facial expression of sincerity if they believe what they are saying is true, hypnosis and suggestion. "People see what they want to see." Patrick has the ability to implant suggestion turning it into "people see what Patrick wants them to see." Patrick plays with the mind of everyone around him, including himself. Patrick utilize psychology, mathematics, science to degree close enough to be called psychic by those around him."

Cal is the better lie detector, but Patrick is better all around. Like many have stated already he at times appears supernatural in his abilities of perception and deduction. Cal can tell if you're lying, but Patrick can tell you things about yourself that you don't think anyone else could possibly know.

Being an avid watcher of both shows I have an opinion but first

1. You cannot hypnotise yourself

2. You cannot hide Micro expressions Cal invented the science and he still cannot

3. Piorot is no match for Patrick don't even go there

In direct contact Lightman can rile up anybody even with Janes amazing ability to keep his cool, and if you get riled up Lightman can win , his micro expression ability cuts through Janes poker style manipulations, you cannot be deceptive in direct contact with Cal he took down the worlds best poker players and is banned from Vegas the capital city of manipulation

So direct battle Lightman wins

In the long game both are master of the Long Con and Janes ability to manipulate the others around him (to a slightly better ability than Lightmans) comes into play

So long game Moriarity vs Sherlock style I would say it's uncertain but leaning towards Patrick

@goldfinch:

No..... Just no Piorot is no match for either of these players

Cal

You're 100% wrong about this, the fact remains that Poirot has much more complex/much more complicated crime cases than any of fictional detectives.

It is impossible that Cal Lightman or even Mentalist would be able to detect Stephen Norton as the psychological manipulator in the Curtain (because Norton has never said anything specific and yet he made other people to kill without doing it on purpose)-fact, it is impossible for Lightman or even Mentalist to detect the Big four on their own-fact.

Crimes that Lightman and Mentalist have solved are nothing to compare against crime cases that Poirot has solved (because of their complexity and twisted, unexpected plots).

It's amusing how a lot of you actually think Cal would win, Jane would wreak him in this. You think Cal's spectacular at what he does, lol, just watch 2x11 "Beat the Devil," where a college student is able to lie to him and Cal wasn't able to tell.

Firstly ,they both were awesome shows ,one of them based on actual science too. I would analyse this by creating a situation , Patrick Jane had Red John , Sherlock had Moriarity ,so lets give our beloved Cal Lightman ,Patrick Jane. Surely a character like this must have made the show a bigger hit.

Now here is what i think . Patrick Jane is what Cal Lightman would have called Natural among the Naturals. Patrick Jane is nearly of same age as Cal , and that too a natural .Its like Torres at the age of Cal. Surely Patrick doesn’t know the science ,but he knows a lot about lying. He may not read the microexpressions ,but sure enough had years of experience from lying as a psychic and we know he can see one. So surely we see Patrick has an edge over him . Patrick has a disadvantage that ,he can’t fight ,which surely Cal can,but thats an advantage only if it comes to fight which someone as smart as Patrick will never come to.

Jane is manipulative ,dwells on the human nature as a whole than just body language .He can create situations by manipulating human nature to give himself extra advantage. He can hypnotise and thats a great tool have in one’s arsenal especially if there is no restriction to do so, him being the bad guy. Patrick having no immediate family makes him as dangerous as Moriarty is to Sherlock. He has no one to be blackmailed to while Cal as we all know loved his daughter a lot. Jane can surely manipulate him and even affect his reading abilities just by talking ill about his daughter Remember how he manipulated Red John into killing the *San Joaquin killer*. Jane is everything Cal would never want in his enemy . Jane has a flair of playing a long con game just like Cal’s favorite move ,infact Jane has huge experience as a con man so that extra advantage Cal may seem to nullify.

So ,just to summarise , Cal may win at Scientific Conferences ,but In real world Patrick Jane is way ahead of Cal . Patrick Jane would have been the *Arch nemesis* to Cal Lightman. I wish the makers would have created such a character in the show. There was no one to challenge Cal and this really would have had a great impact to the show.