Captain America punching Ironman

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silversurfer89

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Ironman wears a mask obviously so was Captain America even hurting him when he was punching him? And why would Cap even attempt to hit Stark in the face knowing that he had that mask on?

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Prospero_Locke

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Cap has displayed a pretty immense amount of power. Though IM has armor, the sheer force would be enough to still hurt. Think of it as wearing a football helmet and someone hitting you with a baseball bat. It might not hurt as bad because of the helmet, but the sheer force and collision would be enough to disorient you or potentially knock you unconscious. Helmet or not, with enough force, the brain will still bounce off the inside of the skull

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never give up

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Oh boy.

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legacy6364

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#4  Edited By legacy6364

Bull****!

Iron-Man's suit took a direct hit from a missile. Super soldier or not, there is no way a fist from MCU Captain America should do damage.

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Capfan85

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@prospero_locke:

Cap has displayed a pretty immense amount of power. Though IM has armor, the sheer force would be enough to still hurt. Think of it as wearing a football helmet and someone hitting you with a baseball bat. It might not hurt as bad because of the helmet, but the sheer force and collision would be enough to disorient you or potentially knock you unconscious. Helmet or not, with enough force, the brain will still bounce off the inside of the skull

Nice analogy, basically sums it up

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pipxeroth

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His shield was doing the large majority of the work, not his fists. There's a reason he had to pick his shield up at the end to break Tony's helmet off.

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deactivated-5a9166f233bc2

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Well, if we go by Cap's high end feats, he can punch with 100+ tons of force even in TFA. So it is not impossible for us to believe that he can't hurt Tony.

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deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084

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The only explanation I can think of is that Tony was using one of his worst suits.

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Mekboy

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Bull****!

Iron-Man's suit took a direct hit from a missile. Super soldier or not, there is no way a fist from MCU Captain America should do damage.

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Cull_Obsidian

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#10  Edited By Cull_Obsidian

@tsol: MCU cap CANNOT punch with 100+ tons of force , the hulk and Thor maybe but definitely not Cap

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uugieboogie

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He was only staggering Tony with his punches, wasn't it the shield doing the damage?

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Thor-Parker

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#12  Edited By Thor-Parker

Bull****!

Iron-Man's suit took a direct hit from a missile. Super soldier or not, there is no way a fist from MCU Captain America should do damage.

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strangetales

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@tsol said:

Well, if we go by Cap's high end feats, he can punch with 100+ tons of force even in TFA. So it is not impossible for us to believe that he can't hurt Tony.

Which high end striking feats were those?

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Drk045

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I really dont take CW seriously. Too much Plot armor going around.

Many dumb things......

If tony is supposed to be this ultra intelligent guy then why the hell couldnt he just fake like if he was okay with his parents deaths, Fly out of the place and Nuke it from above while cap and bucky are in there.....But nope lets take these guys on in H2H.

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hatemalingsia

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There wouldn't be any tension if Iron Man could shoot him with multiple rockets filled with sleeping gas, concussion bomb, or any other non-lethal means of stopping him.

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removekebab

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He was using an emergency suit if that's an excuse.

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Tayssti

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Cap has displayed a pretty immense amount of power. Though IM has armor, the sheer force would be enough to still hurt. Think of it as wearing a football helmet and someone hitting you with a baseball bat. It might not hurt as bad because of the helmet, but the sheer force and collision would be enough to disorient you or potentially knock you unconscious. Helmet or not, with enough force, the brain will still bounce off the inside of the skull

A combination of this....

and Tony did receive some bruises while inside the suit when he was attacked by Wanda and the cars. Even though the suit wasn't damaged at all by the attack it clearly showed that suit wasn't quite as good at protecting the user inside of it (Tony).

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deactivated-5a9166f233bc2

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@strangetales: @cull_obsidian:

No Caption Provided

Red Skull, who is Cap's equal or inferior ( in TFA at least), put a fist imprint in what looks like around 4/8" (0.5 inches) mild steel plate. Red Skull did this while not blood lusted and also what's even more impressive is Cap's arm and body absorbed a very large amount of the force when the shield moves back with the punch.

First we find the ultimate yield strength of mild steel

Yield strength is:

A yield strength or yield point is the material property defined as the stress at which a material begins to deform plastically. Prior to the yield point the material will deform elastically and will return to its original shape when the applied stress is removed.

A36 steel in plates, bars, and shapes with a thickness of less than 8 in (203 mm) has a minimum yield strength of 36,300 psi (250 MPa)

So we come up with 36,300psi for yield strength.

We then multiple the Yield strength by thickness of the metal (0.5") and the perimeter of fist roughly (approx. 12 inches) to get foot pounds

36,300psi * 0.5in * 12inch = 217,800 pounds of force.

or about 100 tons minimum to deform 4/8" steel with your fist.

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Cull_Obsidian

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#20  Edited By Cull_Obsidian

@tsol: While that all checks out , your assuming the material is mild steel , also I he had a force of 100 robs then every hit would be a death hit , and it would take 100 tons to make an imprint , drop a tank point first on to the shield it will make an imprint , and at first I thought you meant tht he is a 100 tonner meaning his lifting strength as cap can lift 1200lbs

Also remember comic physics dont always equal real physics and probably wasn't meant to show literally 100+ tons and was to show just that red skull is really strong

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incursion2

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#21  Edited By incursion2

Cap has displayed a pretty immense amount of power. Though IM has armor, the sheer force would be enough to still hurt. Think of it as wearing a football helmet and someone hitting you with a baseball bat. It might not hurt as bad because of the helmet, but the sheer force and collision would be enough to disorient you or potentially knock you unconscious. Helmet or not, with enough force, the brain will still bounce off the inside of the skull

Basically this

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kgb725

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@ready_4_madness: Tony beat him in like 2 moves after analyzing him without using anything but his fists

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kgb725

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@drk045: Why would he want to kill one of his friends ? That doesn't make any sense.

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jumpstart55

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#25  Edited By jumpstart55

The fact his suit was able to withstand tank shells.....Yet get dramatically damaged by Cap is pure PIS...Exploding tank shells>>>>Caps strongest hit..His vibranium shield could do some descent enough damage though but not his bare fist alone..You have to relaize that if his older Mark 3 suit could take such damage it stands to reason that his newer Amors would be capable of withstanding alot more damage..The fact that it could absorb Thors lighting plus the fact that it is capable of tanking damage from a multitude of high powered military offensive weapons..Means that the suit is somehow capable of dispersing and adsorbing massive amounts of energy so well beyond Captain Americas capabilities its not even funny..Cap and Bucky should have been effortless stomped in that fight..But i understand, the Russos wanted to make the match up interesting so they depowered Iron-man for that fight..But lets not fool our self's here based on Starks previous feats, Cap and Bucky should of stood absolutely no chance against Iron-man..Especially one who was bloodlusted.

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deactivated-5a9166f233bc2

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@cull_obsidian: That is why i said that it is a high-end feat. Not something he can always replicate. And why exactly can't i assume that Cap's original shield is made of A36 steel ? It is the standard steel alloy that is a common structural steel in the United States even back in WW2 and is usually in the forms of plate, bar, sheet, structural shapes ( or in this case, Cap's shield ).

MCU Cap can only lift 1200 lbs ? You have proof, statements ? This isn't 616 Cap, MCU Cap isn't a peak human. He is officially stated to possess superhuman strength and i have actual proofs of this. And i also have feats that put him in Class 10+. So unless you have actual proofs or statements from Marvel than don't you dare say MCU Cap can only lift 1200 lbs.

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captain_batman_FTW

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@tsol: Red Skull is a different character, Cap and Red Skull aren't the same. You can't use ones feat for another character because they have the same origins of power. That's like me saying that because Hal Jordan can hold his own against abstract beings, then that means that Simon Baz can do the same thing simply because both of them wear Lantern rings.

Two different characters, ones feat doesn't count for the other.

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deactivated-5a9166f233bc2

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@captain_batman_ftw: Your example is way off. In this specific instance i'm talking about, Red Skull is either physically equal or inferior compare to Cap due to the fact that they are portrayed that way in TFA and Cap had consistently shown that he is strong enough to deform thick metal with his bare hands through the 5 movies he is in. So it is not out of the realm of imagination for him to perform this type of feat.

By your own logic, MTA Iron Man isn't a 60+ toner because it is not him who is lifting the tank in the tie-in comic, it is Rodey.

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KrleAvenger

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It's a plot device ot Ant-Man damaged his suit much more than we think.

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deactivated-5a9166f233bc2

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@krleavenger: By the time he fought Cap and Bucky, his armour was already repaired ( evidence of this is that you see no damages or scratches from his suit when he fought the duo despite the fact that it was damaged in the airport battle )

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KrleAvenger

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#31  Edited By KrleAvenger

@tsol: Which is still fine you know. Seeing Cap beating him up was awesome.

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g2_

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@tsol said:
No Caption Provided

Red Skull, who is Cap's equal or inferior ( in TFA at least), put a fist imprint in what looks like around 4/8" (0.5 inches) mild steel plate. Red Skull did this while not blood lusted and also what's even more impressive is Cap's arm and body absorbed a very large amount of the force when the shield moves back with the punch.

Iron man's armor material is not really that durable, the arc reactor increases his durability IIRC. @krleavenger Am I right?

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KrleAvenger

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@g2_: In comics alloy of gold and titanium is immune to above thermonuclear force even without power and R.T. Note makes it durable enough to withstand blows from the likes of Thor,Hulk,Sentry... In Movies it is pure fusion of gold and titanium wihtout extra durability with Arc Reactor's power giving alloy extra molecular bonding process making it more durable.This was proved in the Avengers movie when Thor hit Iron-man with lightning increasing power of the Arc Reactor to above 400%,incresing the bonding process of Titanium and Gold making its strenght durability to a level compareable although not equal to thunder gid.However the prototypes like Mark 2 or 42 have only low leveled arc reactor allowing it only to charge jet boosters and takn busting repulsors.To me,Ant-Man either damaged Arc Reactor's overcharge system amking Armor Solid titanium and Gold or Mark 46 is just a testing prototype without any special durability like Mark 2 or any other prototype from mark 8 to 42 making the armor still normal titanium and gold,a material which can easily be damaged by meta humans like Bucky with his metal arm or Cap's striking power boosted by Durability of Vibranium shield which is immune to all physical laws.

So yeah,you are right.

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g2_

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#34  Edited By g2_

@krleavenger said:

@g2_: In comics alloy of gold and titanium is immune to above thermonuclear force

Impossible. So Iron man's armor material can tank nukes?

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KrleAvenger

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@g2_: Not in Marvel Gold and Titanium bit Iron-man's materijal even without the energy of R.T. Note. Tere were few times Iron-man was able to take a nuke without damage while having no power in R.T. Note what so ever. I will show you scans when I get home.

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g2_

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KrleAvenger

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#37  Edited By KrleAvenger

@g2_: I was talking about comic Version. Cap can't hurt comic Version without Vibranium shield. Unless Iron-man was hurt by lesser force than nuclear blows without the armor more than 2 times then I will see those scans as PIS but for now that is the fact.

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g2_

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@g2_: I was talking about comic Version.

me too.

Cap can't hurt comic Version without Vibranium shield. Unless Iron-man was hurt by lesser force than nuclear blows without the armor more than 2 times then I will see those scans as PIS but for now that is the fact.

Ok.

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KrleAvenger

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#39  Edited By KrleAvenger

@g2_: Actally I remember him being hurt by lesser force than a nuke when his Armor lost power like a lot of times so those feats Probably are PIS.

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Cull_Obsidian

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@tsol said:

@cull_obsidian: That is why i said that it is a high-end feat.

It wasnt cap it was red skull. red skull had an experimental sss injected and it wasnt the same as caps , also iirc red skull captured a small amount of energy from the tessarect

Not something he can always replicate. And why exactly can't i assume that Cap's original shield is made of A36 steel ? It is the standard steel alloy that is a common structural steel in the United States even back in WW2 and is usually in the forms of plate, bar, sheet, structural shapes ( or in this case, Cap's shield ).

Dont forget that this wasnt some special battle ready shield it was just some part of a costume , essentially a prop used for the properganda shows cap did during ww2, so it prob wasnt structrual steel

MCU Cap can only lift 1200 lbs ? You have proof, statements ?

Yes this was from the official handbook of the marvel universe http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Strength_ScaleIts states cap lifts 1200lbs

This isn't 616 Cap, MCU Cap isn't a peak human. He is officially stated to possess superhuman strength and i have actual proofs of this.

Dont the comic counterparts always outclass their mcu versions ?

And i also have feats that put him in Class 10+.

Oh i see i originally thought you was arguing that cap is a class 100 , my mistake

The higest strength feat for mcu cap was holding the helicopter , this helicopter is an airbus as350 with a lifting potential of 3000lbs , so logic dictates that steve has to surpass that , its clear to see that cap is really trying nd its not an easy feat , so you could say that is close to his maximun so lets say he can exerts 3500lbs of force , that would be 1.75 tons, but if you have better feats please show me

the moterbike throwing scene in aou doesnt count as when he threw it there was no center pivet for him to turn around to be able to throw it , so wouldnt be physically possible no matter the strength

So unless you have actual proofs or statements from Marvel than don't you dare say MCU Cap can only lift 1200 lbs.

See Above

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Cull_Obsidian

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@tsol said:

@cull_obsidian: That is why i said that it is a high-end feat.

It wasnt cap it was red skull. red skull had an experimental sss injected and it wasnt the same as caps , also iirc red skull captured a small amount of energy from the tessarect

Not something he can always replicate. And why exactly can't i assume that Cap's original shield is made of A36 steel ? It is the standard steel alloy that is a common structural steel in the United States even back in WW2 and is usually in the forms of plate, bar, sheet, structural shapes ( or in this case, Cap's shield ).

Dont forget that this wasnt some special battle ready shield it was just some part of a costume , essentially a prop used for the properganda shows cap did during ww2, so it prob wasnt structrual steel

MCU Cap can only lift 1200 lbs ? You have proof, statements ?

Yes this was from the official handbook of the marvel universe http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Strength_ScaleIts states cap lifts 1200lbs

This isn't 616 Cap, MCU Cap isn't a peak human. He is officially stated to possess superhuman strength and i have actual proofs of this.

Dont the comic counterparts always outclass their mcu versions ?

And i also have feats that put him in Class 10+.

Oh i see i originally thought you was arguing that cap is a class 100 , my mistake

The higest strength feat for mcu cap was holding the helicopter , this helicopter is an airbus as350 with a lifting potential of 3000lbs , so logic dictates that steve has to surpass that , its clear to see that cap is really trying nd its not an easy feat , so you could say that is close to his maximun so lets say he can exerts 3500lbs of force , that would be 1.75 tons, but if you have better feats please show me

the moterbike throwing scene in aou doesnt count as when he threw it there was no center pivet for him to turn around to be able to throw it , so wouldnt be physically possible no matter the strength

So unless you have actual proofs or statements from Marvel than don't you dare say MCU Cap can only lift 1200 lbs.

See Above

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Cull_Obsidian

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woops posted twice

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g2_

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@g2_: Actally I remember him being hurt by lesser force than a nuke when his Armor lost power like a lot of times so those feats Probably are PIS.

Let me get this straight, Iron man's armor material can tank nukes? But the arc reactor makes the suit so durable, right?

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KrleAvenger

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#44  Edited By KrleAvenger

@g2_: Material is immune to nukes but R.T. Note (called Arc reactor in MCU) makes it durable enough to take far more powerful blows than a nuke (like punches from Thor,Hulk,Sentry...).

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deactivated-5a9166f233bc2

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@cull_obsidian:

Cap is portrayed to be physically equal or superior to Red Skull, yet you think he can't replicate this feat ? Cap also has 5 other movies where he consistently deforms thick steel with his bare hands, so this kind of feats are completely possible for him

If the shield isn't battle ready, than why would Cap even bring it with him to Red Skull's base ? Cap is not an idiot, in fact his mind is enhanced. If his shield isn't battle ready, he would have replaced it with another one the moment he decided to recuse Bucky by himself. But instead, he kept on using it.

Where did you get the idea that all 616 characters are superior to their MCU counterpart ? Maybe the majority are, but there are some specific case such as MCU Cap or MCU Bucky ( a genuine super soldier unlike his 616 counterpart ) are superior to their 616 counterpart.

And MCU Cap is officially stated to be a peak human only in personality & appearance ( like his 616 counterpart ) but superhuman in term of stats ( strength, speed, durability, agility, etc ) ( like his Ultimate counterpart ) :

No Caption Provided

This same statement was also in Guidebook to the Marvel Cinematic Universe - Captain America: The First Avenger :

Marvel says that MCU Cap is the pinnacle of human perfection

No Caption Provided

and at the same time, says that Red Skull, who is Cap equal or inferior ( in TFA at least ), possesses superhuman strength & endurance :

No Caption Provided

By Marvel's own words, you only possess superhuman strength if you can lift more than 2 tons :

No Caption Provided

Unlike MCU Cap or MCU Red Skull, 616 Cap is officially stated to only possess peak human strength ( can lift no more than 800 lbs ), so even the source of information you gave me was wrong :

No Caption Provided

Also, don't take your information from wiki, they are extremely unreliable. Almost everybody can go to a wiki and edit it.

MCU Cap's strength feats that put him in Class 10+ :

  • Can pull down helicopter :
No Caption Provided

I did a little research, and it turns out the helicopter that Steve is holding on to is a Eurocopter AS350 "Ecureuil" ("Squirrel"), which could have a takeoff weight of as little as 2,270 (not counting the pilot and fuel) or as much as 5,225 pounds (fully loaded high performance B3 variant).

More importantly, the aircraft's takeoff power ranges between 732 and 847 shaft horsepower (depending on the engine), and the diameter of the main rotor is 36.07 feet, meaning, if my calculations are correct, the lift it generates is between 10,000 and 11,000 pounds of thrust...

Rotary area = pi*(rotor diameter/2)^2 = 3210.1996177637161188 square feet

Power loading = (takeoff power)/(rotary area) = 0.2280232032766624694 to 0.2638465207313293874 horsepower per square foot

Thrust loading = 8.6859/(power loading)^0.3107 = 13.7496212954846786530247 to 13.140169091727853994312 pounds per horsepower

Lift = (thrust loading)*(takeoff power) = 10064.7227882947847740140804 to 11129.723220693492333182264 pounds of thrust

Upward force balanced by Cap = (lift) - (takeoff weight) = 4839.7227882947847740140804 to 8859.723220693492333182264 pounds

...which alone makes this makes this at least a 4,800 pound feat for Captain America, perhaps as much as 8,800.

...but he's at an oblique angle. I figure it's about 60 degrees from the vertical/thrust vector, which would make the load feel like 9,600-17,600 pounds! Which would make Cap about a five to eight-and-a-half tonner (pulling through his arms and shoulders, anchored with one hand)!

And to top it all off, Steve was actually able to pull the helicopter down, meaning that he could generate up to 10+ tons of lift through one of his arm alone. Imagine what he can do with 2 arms.

  • With one arm, threw the 9 foot Ultron hundreds of meters away like a rag doll and kept him flying further away :

Clip at 60% to highlight Ultron stopping before the throw
Clip at 60% to highlight Ultron stopping before the throw

Ultron is likely made out of a titanium alloy like Stark's suits. Titanium weighs roughly 284lbs per cubic foot. Ultron is like 9 feet tall so 9 cubic feet is 284 lbs x 9 = roughly 2,600 lbs. And Cap threw Ultron like a rag doll hundreds of meters away with one arm and with enough force to shatter concrete. In order for Cap to do this, he would have to be a 10+ toner. Don't believe me, check it out yourself. Assuming your max overhead press is 220 lbs. If you go to the gym, pick up a 44 lbs plate and then try to throw it 10 meters away, you will fail horribly. You might be able to do that with a 22- lbs plate and with a distance of 20 feet but even then, it would take you some effort. The reason why you can throw a 22 lbs plate 20 feet away but not a 44 lbs 10 meters away is because the 22 lbs plate is only a portion of the weigh you can lift ( around 1/10 ) but the 44 lbs plate is just too much for you. The same can be said for MCU cap, in order for him to throw 1+ tons of metal like a rag doll hundreds of meters away and with enough force to shatter concrete and did this with only one arm, he would have to be a 10+ toner.

  • Easily overpowered an Ultron bot despite the fact that the bot was trying to get out of Cap's grip ( the bot had enough time to get out but can't because Cap is significantly more powerful than it) and then rip it apart ( even the bots can't do this to each other consider the fact that they are made of titanium and titanium is extremely durable ) :
No Caption Provided

And the bots are strong enough to lift cars off themselves, easily proving that they have Class 2+ strength :

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

And i haven't even use his best strength feats, which would put him in Class 25+. LOL

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@tsol@cull_obsidian Dude, you should be a structural engineer. Your calculations are awesome, and don't forget that we have to calculate the Bucky shackle-ripping feat too when the DVD comes out.

An important thing to mention that I just thought about from watching the ultron bots in your post is that these ultron bots were designed as part of Tony's Ultron program/peacekeeping initiative. They are probably comparable in strength and durability to a T-800 Terminator like the one Arnold played in Terminator 2, although the terminators were made of a hyper-alloy which is some type of futuristic metal that is stronger than steel. Anyway, those Ultron bots were designed to protect the world from aliens and from terrorists, etc. they obviously are made to be hardy and tough. Cap basically carried that ultron bot like it was a blow up doll, with no effort at all. Those ultron bots probably had to weigh around 500 pounds, and he was running with it like it was a toy.

You should calculate the force Cap generated in these pictures which are his 616 VERSION, which is supposedly "peak human"

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Judging by the way Cap is grabbing the door and his hand size is probably comparable to mine since he is 6'2" 240 and I am 6'2"245, his hand dimensions are probably similar to mine meaning that steel door is probably around 5" thick. This is definately not peak human stuff, this is on the level of someone like Spider-man and remember 616 version is weaker than MCU based on feats.

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@capfan85: In order to calculate the amount of force it take for Bucky to break through those restrain, i would need to know what kind of metal it is made of, its thickness, the perimeter, etc, and where he was applying the force. And based on the fact that Bucky is a superhuman, i would have to make a s**t load amount of assumption about the steel that was restraining him, but i can tell you for that the amount of force it would take for Bukcy to perform that strength feat would be insane.

The same can be said for the 616 version.

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@cull_obsidian: If you still don't believe me, here is another proof of MCU Cap lifting around 1200 lbs without any effort, proving that he can lift much more than this :

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Steve effortlessly lifts a motorbike overhead, which is in all likelihood a 1942 Harley Davidson WLA, the standard military motorcycle of the time. The bike has a total weight of 630 lbs ( the bike has a larger seat, and extra headlight adding to the weight of a stock WL Harley). For the three women on top, assumming they are the same weight as an average american female at 165lbs. (166x3)lbs+630lbs = roughly 1200lbs of metal and woman being lifted. Its worth considering that Rogers performed for several months and the fact this feat was performed live (several times) without safety measures (such as ropes and wires) indicates that it wasn't very risky/hard for him to complete.