Why Red Hood should be the next A-List Character.

Hello Comicvine enthusiasts,

Being aware of the controversial weight of this subject, I welcome you to this discussion.

As a comic book fan, I have read most batman-related stories. What makes these characters so interesting is their complex features, being both good and bad, heroic but unorthodox. This is why I consider Batman an anti-hero and not a hero, because breaking someone's legs and paralyzing them forever does not make you an angel, It makes you a judger. He is ruthless and cruel, in the deepest depths of his heart. This is my opinion, although i am sure many will disagree. (this is not the main point).

Red hood, contrary to people's beliefs, is a very complex character. more complex than any batman-family member, and even more so than batman.

He is trapped inside the prison of his own mind, trying to be faithful to the teachings of his mentor, whilst taking his anger out in unorthodox ways.

This portrayal of complexity is what made "Red hood: Lost days" and "Red hood: under the hood" such amazing and accepted stories.

If there were more stories like the two i mentioned, red hood would be the A-list character some believed him to be.

This will anger some folks: Red hood is DC's version of Punisher.

Punisher is obsessed with vengeance, and believes he should go after his goal wholeheartedly.

Nobody else than red hood in the bat-family does this.

1) Nightwing is emotionally stable and balanced, combining his happiness with the mask.

2) Tim drake is bland, robotic, and precise.

3) Barbra Gordon has a strong moral code from her father that out-weights her complexity.

In new 52: He is not interesting like nightwing, not precise like tim drake, not determined like batman; but a half-combination of all. This is the reason why he got very low ratings. He has become just an add-on character.

When Fans found out that red hood was getting his own series in new 52, they were blown away. However the series stripped red hood away from his complexity, and made him a generic character. They throw him in there with other characters, to divert from having to create in-depth character development. It's lazy and a disrespect to us fans.

And now, they are doing the same in Rebirth.

Red Hood deserves real character development. He is the only proven anti-hero in the bat-family. Being a part of this family means respect from batman fans, the millions all over the world.

Moreover, he has more potential for development than most DC characters. Focusing on him would be a great move for DC. This type of complexity will attract diverse fans. He could be the next A-list character.

Give us the real hood back.

best regards,

P.

I've always thought the Huntress was DC's version of Punisher. You are right though, Red Hood is an amazing and underrated character. He's definitely more interesting than Dick Grayson and Tim Drake (the most useless character ever IMO). I see a lot of wasted potential with Jason.

Someone hasn't read anything Tim Drake Pre52.

Tim Drake is a great character. Jason is good too. It just depends what you like. I prefer Tim whether its before or after Flashpoint.

Jason should have stayed dead imo.

He's just a Mary Sue character

Jason Todd is an angsty boy with daddy issues.

Lmao. I don't think you know what a Mary Sue is. He was worst fighter out of everyone except Damian. He had to work his ass off as Robin with his best trait being his intellect. If you're honestly going to call him a Mary Sue, might as well say that about every Robin.

Again, you know nothing about Tim Drake so stop pretending like you do.

tl;dr

Cause Under The Red Hood was a fantastic animated movie and he's the perfect contrast to Batman and his ideals.

I'm really starting to hate this stupid term just because of how casually it gets thrown around these days.

@darthaznable: I like that you enjoy reading about tim drake. So do I. Have you read the recent "batman and robin eternal" series? the writers comepletely made tim and jason out of character. tim and jason could be a fantastic duo. one a great detective, the other an enforcer. they fill each others gaps too....i hate the direction they are taking with these characters. what about you?

@jasonhawke:Exactly man. Thats why i made this post. we need more of it!!!!!!! If you guys want the sane thing, im sure we can raise more attention!

@sprior93: He is angry, yes. But that's what creates his story. The writers should emphasize on that feature in his recent stories. instead, the writers have completely forgotten it.

@oldboy93: I usually don't regard her as a full-pledged bat-member, although she is an anti-hero too. I dont necessarily think tim is useless, It's just that tim has a grip on his emotions and even though he makes a great detective, he makes a very DULL one. It's the emotional drive that makes a great story.

Nah, the term is pretty accurate sometimes, is just that it got too popular so naturally many people will get a little confused about it.

No more than any other Bat-character.

Anywho, I'll say, I disagree with your assertion Jason didn't develop as an Outlaw. His training with the All-Caste, the bonds he forged with his team, the emotional baggage he's sifted through, what's missing?

@persiboss: New 52 destroyed Tim Drake along with other characters. At least Jasson had the Outlaws and from what I read, his series with Arsenal was good too. Jason and Tim had hints of a good relationship in one panel of Outlaws (?) where Jason went to visit him. But Batman has received the majority of spotlight because Batman sells.

Does he not lead his own ongoing? Wth do you people want?

@nerevarine_11: Yeah he does. Moreover, it sells good!

Even though it's written by Lobdell lols. I definitely enjoy reading it. Art is by Soy...so beautiful.

Why would comparing him to the Punisher anger people?. It fits his earlier characterisation at least, until he mellowed out a bit

He will never be an A-lister, supportive character are doomed from start unless they replace the protagonist of their universe and even so the original hero eventually return.

Is Azreal not only apart of the bat-family but also a proven anti-hero too?

being an A lister isn't all it's cracked up to be, popularity takes over quality.

I read the title of the thread, and the line going: Red hood is DC's version of Punisher.

And I thought... yeah thats kinda what marks him out as a C-list.

There is truth to this. To be honest though it gets on my nerves sometimes when people think that makes them a worse character. There are drawbacks from being A List and C-Listers have some advantages. There are some of my favorites that i'd rather remain C-Listers so they don't get his with some of the things that happen to A listers. Take Wolverine for instance, becoming a list character did much to his that I found bad,

I realize I've gone off topic so just you realize my comment was directed at the worth of being list rating. Not related to the topic of Red Hood. Also I'm not that I'm saying that you are among those who I say view C-listers as less. I was just sparked with thought and shared.

I agree. There are things a C-list character can do that an A-list cannot. Also I think there is some difference in what people mean when they say a character is A-list or w/e. To my mind A and B listers are the ones the vast majority of the audience can get behind and most people will find these characters interesting. Like various members of the Justice League core (A-listers) especially the cartoon version of the Teen Titans (B-listers)... but a C-lister and thereafter are these slightly obscure characters who dip into area's where the A's and B's wont venture, in the Punishers and Red Hood's cases its their willingness to kill people. Like there is a reason the Punisher has like 3 or 4 movies, but they are all sealed off under the Marvel Knights imprint since he doesn't fit into the Marvel/Disney mould (you just end up with the Comedian anyways :).

@bluehope: you are partially right. but as we know, red hood diverted from the batman scene and did his own thing. this was and still is a great chance to boost him up the ranks. if you noticed, DC boosted wally west (previously c-lister) all the way up to the A-list ranks after barry allen. it is possible, and that was a great move for DC. this could be as well.

@brucerogers: Glad you mentioned that. It is because the writers mellowed him out, but failed to replace his previous features with anything else. sure, the last jason was angry and driven, but this jason just became bland. considering the massive potential in jason's background (being killed by joker, resurrected, his family dead,etc.), DC is missing a huge opportunity to boost red hood up the ranks. Remember when marvel boosted the tier-2 Ironman to tier-1 with the release of iron man (2008 movie)? its possible to boost these characters.

@darthaznable: @scouterv:Glad you asked what is missing. Red hood and the outlaws changed writers and artists many times. It was inconsistent and poor, without any real sign of character development. Just because there are events, does not mean the character developed from the core. They threw him in there with a group and failed to focus on Jason as a whole. Go look at the ratings for that series, its horrible and non-profitable.

i'd rather see Vixen be the next A-List character or Bumblebee.

@solid_snake97: Yes, but as i mentioned, there was neither popularity nor quality with the red hod and the outlaws. it was a mess and a wasted potential. ratings were horrible too.

and the red hood/arsenal series got low ratings and lacked story depth. why is DC so lazy?

@dernman: @outside_85:Yes, i understand that C-listers can do things more popular characters can't, but marvel treated the punisher much better than DC treated the red hood. marvel managed to boost up a lot of their b-listers and c-listers.

With iron man (2008 movie) marvel managed to boost iron man to the A-list, while DC could't even sell it's superman movie (2006). marvel boosted daredevil, punisher, elektra, Jessica jones, luke cage, etc. while DC can't even manage to sell it's A-listers.

This is ridiculous. Red hood has more potential than every batman-family character, plus many other DC characters specially some in the justice league.

Jason has the background, rivalry, and seriousness an A-list character needs.

Not only that, but Red hood is amazing for Noir...

@persiboss: Lobdell was the guy writing any Red Hood book most of the time, so there weren't that many changes. Tyvion and someone else took over at times, but Lobdell was very consistently there, and his latest take has been pretty well-received. Hell, I'd say it's my favorite Rebirth book.

And I also have to disagree with you on the idea that Jason didn't develop, but I'm curious. What is the sign of character development for you, because it's clear we have different takes. As for them not focusing on Jason as a whole, the book was about more than just him. Kori and Roy had their own arcs and Artemis and Bizzaro will probably have arcs too.

In regards to ratings, I don't pay them any mind. Even awesome books get the axe, and I liked Red Hood and the Outlaws so to me it was a good book, but even good books don't always sell.

Thing is that giving the Punisher a movie, or Luke Cage a TV show, does not make them A-listers. It boosts their prominence, but that does not mean they are in line for a seat on the next Avengers team or suddenly become a greater force within the the Marvel Universe now that they've been exposed to a wider audience. I mean the Punisher has like 3 movies to his name, same as Blade, and neither of them can manage anything more than a niche title.

And regards to Iron Man... it may be true his movies boosted him to A-level status, but that's the status he's supposed to have as a founding member of the Avengers and one of Marvels oldest characters, but lost it simply because Marvel neglected to develop him for years and years, he was just the former alcoholic in a metal suit.

@persiboss: I wrote a long post basically saying I agree with this than accidentally erased it. Lol.

Believe it or not I was brainstorming the day before you posted this thread and I came to the same conclusion. Red hood should completely break away from Batman tho to make this work. He could be the Netflix punisher type for DC.

Also an idea I'm really proud of, Mr. Miracle. He should be the first Antman, DS or GOTG for DC. B-lister on the rise. His movie should be a psychological thriller done like the Apprentice or the Protegie. He should wear a more muted version of his suit SOMETIMES while spending plenty of scenes not wearing it. His ties to Darksied gives him a natural fit to the DCCU without it feeling forced.

Lets not forget a huge part of IM's success is actually about RDJ portrayal than the character itself. The special affects of the suit also had a hand in it.

@sprior93: @oldboy93: @bluehope: @eto: @scouterv: @outside_85: @super_ninja: @dernman: @captainsalt:

I HAD TO SHARE!!

If anyone has been following up news about Injustice 2 Game, Red Hood has been the most anticipated and demanded character.

Polls show him to be 60% approved, and the director of injustice 2 has even posted a status asking which red hood version fans want: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/injustice-2-director-asks-fans-to-choose-which-red/1100-6442572/

This demand right here is exactly what i am talking about. Arkham Knight game did not provide enough plays of Red hood and fans are pushing for more of him. In terms of the game, i think red hood has gotten the most attention. Let me know what you guys think of the game and about red hood being in it.

Red Hood is DC's Punisher that can probably mess the Punisher up.

He's my favourite of the Robins, next to Damian's Batman even though it was only one showing. So I hope he moves on from that ug ass Dark Trinity nonsense they got him with.

@itouchedtheboat: Honestly,The Outlaws has been one of DCs better books. I see no reason Jason can't hang with his own crew in a book and still be awesome.

I haven't read it for a while, it just doesnt seem to suit him IMO to put him with a reject WW and an idiot Superman lol. But then again Im the kind of guy that likes Batman working alone so my taste may be a little different.

@itouchedtheboat: Then consider this an official recommendation.

Artemis is a total beast. She's nothing like Wonder Woman and Bizzaro actually seems to be learning. It's an interesting take. I think The Outlaws allow Jason to spread himself out, similar to how Batman does with The League or Nightwing with the Titans.

@scouterv: haha! I'll def check it out :)

Jason was a annoying character imo.

Deadshot is there already.

Well he should be in it. Jason is badass

I actually like what DC is doing with Red hood for Rebirth. He's interacting very well with Artemis and Bizarro since they're all black sheep. Without them, he would be another Punisher, but with a mask

I actually liking the Redhood comic right now. Batman is the one that need to chill out, he has way to many freaking team mate. Luckily his team is falling apart one by one