Who is smarter than Reed Richards and Doctor Doom?

Those guys are seen as Top minds of Comic Books. However a lot of people think there are other characters smarter than them. WHo do you think those characters are? Can you please at least provide feats or evidence, not just say it without explanantion.

Of course we ignore characters that are Omniscient and have Cosmic Awarennes like TOAA, Living Tribunal, Galactus, Mar-Vell and Genis-Vell, Beyonders... or Super Smart people with Universal Knowledge like Thanos, Collector or Androids and Robots and A.I.s like Ultron.

So who is smarter than those two and why?

Killer Croc

• Hmm i,m not entirely sure if were just talking humans if not then i,m leaning towards Thanos,Galactus Uatu and few others,..I need time to think this one over.
• But until ill just enjoy the show becuase his is certainly going to make an interesting debate.

You excluded everyone who could be smarter than Reed.

I´d love to see a battle of prep between Reed, Ultron and Thanos.

HE- High Evolutionary has ascended beyond doom or reed in many areas. His bio-tech is at least on par with either and his godlings are a testament to his abilities. Why have Doom nor reed created such beings, Who knows?

Loki- Is on par or above as well. His knowledge on Magic dwarfs reeds understanding, and is above Dooms as well. He has tech knowledge but I give an ever slight edge over Loki there. Loki is also far more cunning.

Apocalyps- Celestial technology thousands if years expierence gives him an edge.

Dr Strange- Though reed and doom have tech knowledge higher, the Dr's magical and cosmic knowledge is far greater.

I know this will sound silly but Alakazam has an IQ of about 5,000 so Zam might be smarter than RR and Doom. Bowser was said to have an IQ of 9,800 (sounds crazy, I know) so maybe he's more smarter than RR & Doom. Perhaps Metron is smarter than RR & Doom? Brainiac is probably smarter than RR & Doom. Hmm maybe Ultra-Humanite is smarter than RR & Doom?

@destinyman75: I'm just gonna tell you, Strange only has knowledge on magic. That does not make him more intelligent. I'm talking about IQ overall. Apocalypse is not on their level either. He only found Celestial tech on accident and is allowed to use it only because Celestials allowed him to and only because Cable made a mistake and gave Apocalypsethe key which is his Techno Organic Virus.

So more or less, Celestial tech was only given to him. It would be the same with you or me. Nothing impressive. Same for Strange. If I learn some magic, that just means I have experience with magic, that does not make my IQ greater that them. Loki is smart but because he knows magic, again that does not make his IQ/intellect greater. Although he has feats of being smart.

That is why this is the question.

....Brainiac 5

@debelindzo: Doesn't he fall into the category of people like Thanos? You know, those with Universal knowledge.

@krleavenger: I'm not sure...I mean he has some pretty ridiculous feats but Universal knowledge....Maybeeee

Supreme Intelligence? Worldmind?

Nobody in Marvel..at least in regards to Reed. I could see arguments made for people in DC or Image.

@krleavenger: He said Brainiac 5, the one from Legion of Superheroes. To use his wiki entry here, "Brainiac 5 is known as the smartest person in the universe." in the 30th and 31rst century.

Bowser.

@Opalance: Ok thanks for info.

It is a general consensus that Marvel geniuses are better than DC´s, and by feats, they are.

@krleavenger: batman...

oh wait no omnipresent characters allowed

You could make an argument for Ultimate Reed/Maker. Apart from him, there's the High Evolutionary, who's surely smarter than both of them, as he has ascended into cosmic Godhood.

Bulma

She was capable of building a time machine in a post-apocalyptic world with low resources.

As a 5 year old was able to fly an alien spacecraft and how to fix it.

As a 5 year old created her own laser gun that packed bomb level firepower

Rick and the doctor are both smarter. I'd say exlcuding people with omniscient and cosmic awareness rick and the doctor are arguably the two smartest characters in fiction.

@chazz85: Rick from Rick and Morty? Not even.

Valeria Richards

@asgardianbrony: Ok I guess. For now the only one I could think of who is smarter than Doom and Reed but follows the rules I added its this guy:

Batman with prep.

I think braniac is the best answer.

@asgardianbrony: I think Reed and Doom are smarter but I see an argument being made for the Maker. He, with zero prep, overpowered and killed all the Asgardians, even Odin who was not in Odinsleep and he absorbed their power. It was not even Maker doing it, those were his Children of Tomorrow and he stated all of them are well beneath him in intellect.

@asgardianbrony: Not really. He sent them and all of them are less smart then him and all of them used weaker equipment than him. Yes I agree 1610 <<< 616 Asgard but still the fact that they did that without any prep proves how good they are. 616 Reed is good as well. He actually killed on of the Mad Celestials with his device and one Mad Celestial is equal to Galactus.

@krleavenger: Loki also knows tech as well but what about HE? I think he is at least as smart as they since he is evolution and has more knowledge over all in the cosmos and is on par with tech??

Valeria Richards right? She's said to be smarter than her father and Doom or is that false?

@asgardianbrony: Yep. However it was actually confirmed that Beyonder let him to do it. Not trying to lowball my second favorite villain, just saying.

That is just hye. She never did anything impressive. Her older self may be super smart but even she is not on their level.

I did not count HE because he is enhanced being. Although I could see why he may be smarter than Reed and Doom.

Oh I see...so it's nothing, but hype huh? Ok well I don't know who is smarter than them.

@stormphoenix: Yep.

@krleavenger: God point but isn't Loki enhanced being a God? Lol

Alakazam

@destinyman75: I think current Loki is Skyfather level or something.

Batman.

@mysticmedivh said:

The Leader, Brainiac, Lex Luthor, Batman, Apocalypse are all smarter than Doom.

I'm not sure anyone is smarter than Reed Richards. He's pretty much the quintessential smart guy of superhero comics.

Who saved the Multiverse?

Nough said

Isn't some version of Braniac considered the most intelligent being ever.

Maybe Alexander Luthor Jr?He has some ridiculous feats.

I don't want to count Brainiac. That way I can count Ultron as well.