Who has more will power: Cap or Hal?

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Extremis

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@rulerofthisuniverse: well Sinestro was the most willful GL until fear took him over. But that's happened to Hal too. At his peak Sinestro was probably pretty close to Hal. Just sayin...

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Wolverine008

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@rulerofthisuniverse: LOL, yes. Batman has more dedication and will power than Hal Jordan in my opinion. Why does my opinion bother you so much?

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cameron83

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If anything,I don't really know completely.

I might say....Cap? Slightly I guess.

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RulerOfThisUniverse

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@extremis: Yeah, if we were talking about Sinestro as a GL it would be totally different.

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Wolverine008

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So because I list a plethora of feats that back up my opinion that Captain America has more Will power (something which cannot be measured) than Hal Jordan, I'm just rooting for Marvel? Come on now, that might just be the stupidest comment I've ever heard.

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Extremis

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#56  Edited By Extremis

I should have done a poll because this is pretty close.

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SOG7dc

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@wolverine08: *clear throat* Hal Jordan, while stuck in limbo (basically limbo), had no ring but found out that they needed him alive (he was technicallydead....it was complicated. He was alive but trapped in the land o the dead) so Hal, with no ring mind you, jumps off a cliff and wills a black lantern ring onto his finger effectively resurrecting him from the dead. Later on Hal, with only a green power ring and his will

Power, killed Krona. A guardian with the power of all the emotional spectrum. A feat the other gaurdians said should have been impossible.....it's really not even a contest.

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MonsterStomp

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This thread should be called: Who has more willpower: Batman or Captain America?

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cameron83

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This thread should be called: Who has more willpower: Batman or Captain America?

That might be much easier.

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Extremis

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#60  Edited By Extremis

Ugh I used to like Batman... Until this forum happened

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Wolverine008

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@extremis: Just ignore the over zealous fans and fanboys man. I like Batman, but I just avoid his forum really because his fanbase can be egregiously annoying.

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SOG7dc

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And if it counts for anything Hal

Kind of dig himself out of a grave after being buried alive....so yeah. But Cap ha good speeches so he must have greater will!

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Extremis

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@wolverine08: yeah I'll try man.

I think I maybe even used to get a kick out of it, but now it's become so monotonous.

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JairamGanpat

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The answer is Hal

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Extremis

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#66  Edited By Extremis

@sog7dc: well Cap's stuff from Dimension Z had pure displays of Will power without the aid of a ring that is the dubbed the most powerful weapon in the universe.

Some of Hal's stuff is like "oh he willed it with the ring" but I don't actually feel like the character willed anything to happen. We aren't actually made to really believe that he had to will himself to do something as he's doing it thru a super powerful ring. So the things he can accomplish are much different as he has a vast advantage in power to begin with.

The GL mythology works in mysticism, so for what it's worth it's hard to separate the immense power of the ring from what is actually just pure grit and willful action. I get that more from Cap than Hal tbh. There's a certain humanness and hands on approach I associate with willful action and because of it I look at Cap, and with knowledge of things he's done, I just get that vibe that he really could move mountains. Not the same with Hal for some reason. It doesn't feel "earned" in the same way.

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cameron83

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@sog7dc said:

And if it counts for anything Hal

Kind of dig himself out of a grave after being buried alive....so yeah. But Cap ha good speeches so he must have greater will!

Hm....so,Captain America's only willpower feats are "good speeches"? And that's what we're using for him?

Is anyone here a DC fan that knows the slightest thing about other characters?

Because I almost give up completely on all things with DC right now. The company in its current state. The fans..all of it.

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SOG7dc

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#68  Edited By SOG7dc

@cameron83: You have trouble identifying sarcasm huh? And besides I listed three Hal will power feats that easily trump anything Cap has done

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SOG7dc

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@extremis: Lol you must not have read my posts because only one feat I posted had him using the ring....even though you need tremendous will for the ring to even work (see green arrow trying to use it in rebirth) 1. Feat was Hal killing himself then willing a black lantern ring onto his finger and 2. He crawled out of a grave after being buried alive without any aid whatsoever. And if you really feel that GLs feats aren't earned I would suggest you read more GL. not being a jerk it just seems like you don't understand how the rings work and how much will power is involved

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AllStarSuperman

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Extremis

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#71  Edited By Extremis

@sog7dc: as I said, the GL universe works in mysticism, so his feats are vastly different and consequently for me, not relatable.

Cap's willfulness is exerted in more realistically viable means (I.e. Never backing down from Zola after living 12 years in a hellish land). Survivalists are real. And Cap doing what he did for so long, when we see him we believe it. Hal's death to life thing isn't believable from jump street as it's impossible. Willful action requires sentience. You can't will anything if you're dead. So it's a moot point. At least to me as it's just not a thing that applies to willpower IMO. It's really a mystical feat in my mind.

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SOG7dc

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@extremis: You can't will anything when your dead? Just like you can't go get shot up with a super serum? Ok. Gotcha. I love how you marvel fan boys will disregard will power feats from a green lantern just to back up a marvel character. No point in debating you anymore

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Extremis

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#73  Edited By Extremis

@sog7dc: I'm not disregarding a GL to back a Marvel character. I'm just stating the obvious: you can't will diddly if you're not alive. And yes it seems you're trying to equate the unrealistic nature of the super soldier serum to GL coming back from the dead but it doesn't have anything to do with will power like The other does which is what we're talking about so you're just hurting your cause.

And yes I'm a "fanboy". Does that surprise you? This is a comic fan website. I'm a Marvel fanboy a Cap fanboy and also a GL fanboy. I'm also a fanboy of many other things.

Maybe you just like to perpetuate Marvel vs DC B.S. and try to drag me into it Because you don't know how else to proceed.

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Extremis

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@theacidskull: did you mean crop? Is that word banned on here again?

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SOG7dc

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@extremis: You cant will diddly while you're not alive? That's funny because Hal literally says "will. I'll will it." before he jumps to his death.... And what I was doing was pointing out the weakness in your argument. That something impossible can't be done. This is comics they're based on the impossible being done. And let me describe what I meant by fan boy. You are blindly supporting a character you like even though, in this context, they are out of their league. What basis wold you have to prove the claim that I like to perpetuate marvel vs dc? Because I don't know how to proceed? Please.

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Extremis

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#78  Edited By Extremis

@sog7dc:

What basis do I have?

Probably that you are "blindly" claiming me to be "blindly" supporting a character. You're a hypocrit. I never accused you of blind fanboyism for having an opinion so why are you doing it to me? Me picking Cap is me being a blind Marvel supporter? That's ridiculous.

And then you ask ME why I claim you perpetuate Marvel vs DC garbage? Please, dude. You're the one crying "DC this" and "Marvel fanboy" that. You're perpetuating this $hit. I'm talking about two characters.

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Extremis

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@theacidskull: the c word!? How dare you acid skull!

Seriously though, I love Remender's Cap. But you're not alone. There's quite a few people on here who don't find favor with it.

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SOG7dc

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@extremis: Because this argument that the cap supporters are making is folly at best! It's blind support. No getting around it. It's like if I made a thread "who's the better soldier cap or Hal" and I argued for Hal because he was in the military....it's a poor poor argument. Logically speaking Hal has the greater will power simply based off of feats. Every single time Hal makes a spark with his ring it shows tremendous will power (again. See green arrow try to use a GL ring in rebirth) it's blind support. There isn't any getting around that. It's like me saying static shock is better with magnetism than magneto. It's utterly ridiculous. But you know what. Prove me wrong. Post will power feats of captain America that I can't trump with something Hal did. Go ahead I'll wait......

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TheBlueAngel93

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Captain America. He's taken on threats just as powerful and dangerous as the threats that Hal faces, but Cap does it without one of the most powerful weapons in the universe and still comes out on top.

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SOG7dc

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#82  Edited By SOG7dc

@war_killer: That would be courage not will....and Hal stood up to Sinestro without a ring in the new 52 so.....

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Extremis

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#84  Edited By Extremis

@sog7dc: why would I post power feats? I already said GL is more powerful than Cap. Will isn't power. It's ability in exerting oneself. Hal's ring magnifies that to the supernatural whereas Cap's doesn't as he doesn't live in that universe and has to use pure grit and doesn't have the luxury of the universes most powerful weapon :p. Which was also part of my point why Hal's "feats" are based on mysticism not will, many times.

Also this argument is not folly. As you said, it's all fictional so it's debatable at the very least. Which is exactly what I've been trying to do. Should've known someone would turn it into Marvel DC BS.

I have a different opinion than you. Deal with it dude.

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AllStarSuperman

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#85  Edited By AllStarSuperman

@extremis said:

@theacidskull: the c word!? How dare you acid skull!

Seriously though, I love Remender's Cap. But you're not alone. There's quite a few people on here who don't find favor with it.

it started out great but went down hill after Issue 6 IMO

I told him the exact same thing earlier today, it was just to drawn out. and ended with a needless death

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Extremis

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SOG7dc

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@extremis: You're dodging. I said "will power feats" if cap has Steiner will than Hal Jordan he will have certainly compiled enough feats to back up such a claim. And you're displaying an ignorance of the GLs as well. They exert the same will power cap would everytime yet use te rings. Ollie said after jut firing a small spark "I feel like I've just run ten miles" (or something to that end) and what dontou mean magnifies it to the super natural? And what you're saying now is just factually inaccurate. His feats are based on will. That's a fact. And it's really not debateable. Like debating if hal is a better fighter than cap.

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Extremis

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#89  Edited By Extremis

@theacidskull: original status? How so? He's a totally different person now. We've had lots of character development, and for a Cap fan what more do you want for the character than for him to be developed further and in new and interesting ways?

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Extremis

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Why isn't there an avoid button on here

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AllStarSuperman

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@extremis said:

@allstarsuperman: not a fan of decompressed storytelling?

it was more stretched out then decompressed, IMO

@allstarsuperman: there was far more problems with it though, the TWIST that cap was really in Demension Z made no sense whatsoever. Plus the events brought cap back to his original status >_<

true and true, also the whole time is faster there was obvious.

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Extremis

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@allstarsuperman: fair enough. What are you thinking of Aaron's Thor? We haven't discussed that one yet hve we?

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TheBlueAngel93

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@sog7dc said:

@war_killer: That would be courage not will....and Hal stood up to Sinestro without a ring in the new 52 so.....

Pfft, Cap smack talked freakin' Odin.

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Extremis

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AllStarSuperman

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#95  Edited By AllStarSuperman

@extremis said:

@allstarsuperman: fair enough. What are you thinking of Aaron's Thor? We haven't discussed that one yet hve we?

I don't like Thor tbh, but im willing to give the current series a try, probably by trade.

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TheBlueAngel93

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@extremis said:

@theacidskull: original status? How so? He's a totally different person now. We've had lots of character development, and for a Cap fan what more do you want for the character than for him to be developed further and in new and interesting ways?

not development. it's a set back for captain sadly. Like cap was initially a MAN OUT OF TIME right? he didn't feel at home in our current time and culture. But he adapted and evolved, while maintaining his morals. However, now due to remenders run, he is still out of place and stuck somewhere else mentally.

It takes away a lot of development, it's like if Bruce banner started crying over hulk again despite growing more accustomed to his condition you know? it would just throw away tons of development from Peter David, Pak, Mantlo and now waid.

Did you not read Captain America #11? This issue shows Cap being less of a "man out of time" but more of a man who is trying to let go of the past. That's why at the end of the issue Cap threw out all of his WWII stuff, as he was still holding on to the past despite have grown accustomed to modern times; it was his way of "moving on."

As for "no development," you do realize that Cap just spend 12 years of his life in another dimension, sure in other titles he may appear like his normal old self, but in his solo title you can already see that he was effected by his adventure in Dimension Z. Not to mention that Steve not only raised a young boy as his own son, but watched him "die" and on top of that was rescued by the love of his life, only to watch her "die" as well. These are not things that are simply going to be overlooked.

People who are saying Dimension Z was pointless or added zero development to Cap need to read the story arc again. I don't know if it's because of the different tone in the book due to Brubaker leaving or what, but I feel people are judging this book not on its contents, but because of their personally feelings towards the creative team. Which honestly is an unfair judgement.

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RisingBean

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@war_killer: And I was just gonna play devil's advocate and say Cap faced Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.

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TommyJones1945

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Ahh, another marvel vs dc thread in disguise, I'm not even going to bother. Either way, my avatar gives away my answer. :)

CIN.