When is DC not gonna suck??

I've been a loyal DC fan since 1994 after i read a Batman comic during Knightfall when Azrael took Bruce Wayne's place. I later got into Superboy, Superman and Green Lantern. I was a consistant collecter of DC Comics up until 2011 when Flashpoint hit. The New 52 was mostly horrible (there were a few good storylines though) and i lost interest quickly and last year i converted back to being a Marvel fan after 17 years. But then i was excited for DC's Convergence event because i thought that it would bring back my childhood heroes from the 90's...wrong. They brought them back all right, but with Geoff Johns' horrible retcons still intact. DC has so many continunity issues it's crazy and then they attempt to bring back the pre-Flashpoint Superman but with a son from Lois Lane which is impossible according to the pre-Flashpoint DCU which has stated numerous times that Kryptonians and humans can't reproduce. They brought back Barry Allen after he died 20 years before and put Wally on the backburner, they cancelled the Wildstorm universe, they made Alan Scott gay and they pretty much ignored their multiverse even though Calvin Ellis and Overman were far more interesting then any current DC hero in the main continunity. I can't even bring myself to read DC Rebirth because DC is so screwed up that i've pretty much considered it a lost cause. And the funny this is: i was always the guy debating with Marvel fans about how great and creative DC was, even now i still do but only from the era of the first Crisis to pre-Flashpoint

Yeah. I still have not read anything since New 52. Moved on to other things.

Rebirth put Wally pre 52 back on the mainstream universe along with the new 52, and he's no longer Kid Flash again, there's this issue about pre 52 superman as you pointed and apparently pre 52 doomsday is also back, they add Watchmen to mainstream universe, to me it looks like they're fixing some thing but well, if you still prefer Marvel then you can keep your second Civil War crappy story and your nazi cap, in a scale from 1 to 10 Marvel is screwing things up as 8 and DC as 4 just because some stories are lacking some interest at some points

@kar-el: if anything DCs improving. Rebirth is bringing people back and doing what the new 52 was meant to do. The ultimate edition to batman vs superman heavily improved the movie. Animation and television they need to improve on but those 2 areas used to be DCs strongest. So they aren't actually doing so bad.

Marvel is doing amazing with daredevil but I haven't seen its other shows. Civil war was a great movie(my personal preference is batman vs superman). Theyre animated shows are great for kids television but I want something that can challenge Bruce timms work. I don't read their comics so don't quote me on this but from what I'm hearing lately they aren't doing the best in that department

Both companies need to improve but as of late, DC isn't the one in need of intervention anymore

DC comics have been good recently. They've had many iconic stories in the past too. Superman and Batman alone have a huge number of stories worth reading. Rebirth is going epic, Johns is a good writer. And I never understood the whole DC vs Marvel thing. One can like both of them, both have their pros and cons. In fact Marvel comics have had a bad patch lately. And messing around with characters happens everywhere.

Man Rebirth has been so good. You are really missing.

@edbeatle: "Civil War crappy story"? What about Convergence being utter trash of a story. Secret Wars was killin it. I've only been more of a Marvel fan for 3 years but i was a DC fan for 17 plus years so i'm not bias against DC at all. And Wally never should have left the spotlight from the get go. And the Watchmen are suppossed to exist on Earth-4

@kar-el: Civil War II so far is bad but so was Convergence. So how about we agree that both DC and Marvel have their ups and downs. And if you think that either one of them sucks, it's your opinion. They don't suck in general. It's more about writers, artists and characters than DC or Marvel.

@thecapeddetective: I looked through Rebirth and it looked pretty boring to me but for the sake of curiousity i'll give it a chance. And Geoff Johns is a good writer but his retcons suck ass. He ruined Hal Jordan, Superboy and Bart Allen

Rebirth is aight guys, but lets not get wild.

Let's be honest. People who like to say they aren't ''biased'' actually are.

Someday I pressume.

@kar-el: Your complaints are valid, I'll give you that. When you've been reading that long you're faced with two choices. Role with the punches or move on. I wasn't happy with the majority of what DC was doing post Flashpoint. But, I'm not the kind of reader who stresses over continuity or is fiercely loyal to any one character. I just want to read a good story. I managed to find creators who were telling good stories regardless of the baggage the New 52.

Rebirth is the best mainstream comics line out right now. Period. Your loss, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Eh, I prefer DC over Marvel these days. I've been enjoying Rebirth a lot more than the All-New All-Bullshit Marvel.

I feel like some of the things you mentioned (Barry Allen) are just a problem with mainstream comics in general in the last 20 years. We're too afraid to let characters die now. We bring Jason Todd back, we bring Barry Allen back, we bring Hal Jordan back, we bring Bruce Wayne back. Eventually it just feels like there's no stakes, because anyone who dies is pretty sure to be back soon. Marvel just did this bait with Steve Rogers recently by making Steve an old man, and then undoing it because that would be too interesting.

The movies kind of make this a comic limbo. Because of these movies, the characters of Bruce Wayne or Steve Rogers are so ingrained into society, that nobody wants to kill them off in the comics anymore, out of fear that new readers will be like "This isn't the guy from the movies!"

Gay Alan Scott was okay, it was clearly pandering for media attention but it didn't really bug me that much. They kind of did the JSA a disservice though.

You should give Rebirth a shot, I'm enjoying Batman and Aquaman so far.

Ruined Hal Jordan? Hal Jordan was sooo far gone and Geoff John brought him back from the abyss and made him a Hero and sellable again.

DC comics was selling like crap before New 52 and writers were running out of ideas for these Superheroes that are aging so DC dialed it back so that new stories could be told. I used to actually care about everything being in continuity, but nowadays, I prefer to just think of a new story as an alternate reality version of that character and enjoy it for what it is.

Maybe if issue number 1's didn't sell like hotcakes, then DC and Marvel would stop rebooting their comics every few years but as long as folks are buying number 1's for the sake of it being the first issue or as an investment which doesn't work anymore... then we would get better stuff.

@ready_4_madness: :)

Lol

@speckoh: Yes, Johns ruined Hal Jordan. Hal going "insane" and turning into Parallax was one of the main reasons that i converted from Marvel to DC. Back then DC made comics a lot more serious, realistic and dangerous with Superman and Green Arrow dying, Bane braking Batman's back and Hal Jordan becoming a grief stricken, powermad, lost soul who gave the Guardians what they deserved. When i read Emerald Twilight i understood how Hal felt. Alexander Luther and Superboy Prime basically tried to do the same thing Hal did but to a smaller degree during Infinite Crisis. But then, after Hal has a noble death reigniting the sun and becomes the Spectre and DC swearing for years that Hal is gone all the sudden he's ressurrected and we're suppossed to believe Hal's actions as Parallax were influnced by a fear entity that's been trapped in the central battery for billions of years (even though the central battery has been destroyed several times) and pretend Hal's heroic actions never happened as Parallax. Bullsh!t! Green Lantern: Rebirth was trash and Geoff Johns was dumb to to invent Parallax the yellow fear entity. After Hal was reborn the stories were good but his rebirth story was wack af, i could care less how much money it made. They could've brought Hal back without saying he was brainwashed during Emerald Twilight and Zero Hour.

@thearchon: Well if i am biased, 5 years of New 52 trash made me that way. All i want is for DC to follow it's own continunity and take the best modernizations of the New 52 and merge it with pre-Flashpoint and actually tell stories that make sense. Is that really too much to ask? And if not, than they should make other comics based on realities in the multiverse like they did with Earth-2. Why they never gave Overman and Calvin Ellis their own comics is beyond me.

@kar-el: You're the only one who sucks here, but have a nice day.

The bait is strong here.

@rubear: DC completely rewrites or ignores all my favorite characters but i suck?Lol. That's why DC is trailing behind Marvel and 90% of DC's movies suck even though they're owned by Warner Bros. Get off DC's dick and be real with yourself

Are you being serious? Geoff Johns was the best thing to happen to Superboy and arguably Hal as well.

@theexile285: Hell yeah, i'm serious. Johns retconned Superboy to be half human and Kryptonian which, if u read Kon-El's first series, is impossible. Superboy was completely human but designed to look like Superman and they made him as Kryptonian as possible. Even his creators confirmed this in Adventures of Superman#506. They gave him the unique power of tactile telekinesis which made him different from Superman as he could use this power in more creative ways. Then Johns retcons him, dumbs down his origin, contradicts his origin, pretty much ignores his tactile telekinesis and makes him even weaker then he was in his first appearance. Besides his stories with Superboy Prime most of Johns' retconned Superboy was wack

I respect your opinion but I disagree. I think DC is amazing right now, rebirth has been spectacular.

@blackagar: Ok, i'll be fair and check out Rebirth but if it sucks i'll let everyone know how i feel. I wanna see Wally back in action anyway

Prepare yourself. It's unlikely superboy will not be coming in the near future or at all since we now literally have superman's son, Jon. Rebirth does fix a lot of continuity problems, many but not all.

@blackagar: Yeah, i'm not feelin Jon Samuel Kent. The New 52 Jon Lane Kent and Kon-El weren't that bad though, but the original non-Kryptonian Kon-El is one of my all time favorite characters along with the mid 90s version of Hal Jordan and Azrael made me a DC fan for nearly 2 decades even though they all either died or were retconned into nearly completely different people

DC has always had goods and bads at the same time. Remember "All Star Batman and Robin" or "Batman: War game", they were very bad and from post-crisis.

I agree that the launch of New 52 was bad, that the New 52 continuity is awfull, that Batman and Superman are far from there best. But New 52 had some nice parts.

Too Bad for you, Convergeance is one of the worst and most useless event they've had.

I am not a fan of New 52 but there are still some must read stories in it that prooves that DC can still produce some interresting content.

Then now Rebirth, well they are just trying to clean the mess that New 52 is. But I think it's too soon to say if Rebirth is well handled or not.

I still believe DC is better than Marvel. They have vertigo, a lot more comics in the 100 best comics of all times than Marvel, and much meborable stories than Marvel.

@kar-el: Are you seriously gonna tell me Civil War II it's a big seller? DC is trashing Marvel with his Rebirth series right now and no, Watchmen has never existed as any Earth in DC main timeline, the closest you are gonna get is Allen Adams and a weird dude with a mask similar to Dr Manhattan