Should we stop using CW speedsters in fights?

What's the point? Every opposition response is just "job, job, job". Well, every speedster jobs in every medium, as they get hit by things or people that they should not be hit by. In fact, that's not just relegated to speedsters. Other types of characters in other entertainment mediums, that have high-tier reaction feats, get hit by much slower things too.

In the good ol' days of debating, we would scale the lower characters to the more powerful characters if they perform successful feats, or just outright call it PIS if it makes no sense. What changed? The fact that a lot of characters are now in live-action shows and movies?

So there is just no point in utilizing the CW Speedsters in fights if the only counter argument is "jobbing".

edit: I know, I should have inserted a poll, sorry.

Speedsters got tagged all the time, but comicvine loves speed, so whenever it happens, it must be because jobbing or PIS, they only use instances where the speedsters dodge attacks, but when they happen to get tripped or accidentally impaled themselves, NO, NO, it's PIS.

People say that as a response because it's a fact.

Not them being biased, or not understanding the character (although some probably are to be fair) just straightforward thinking. Many of the CW Speedsters are extremely incompetent with their powers, which has and will continue to lose them fights until the show starts portraying them as something more then morons with occasional flashes (heh) of intelligence.

The CW speedster are just idiotic

@buildhare: but a show dedicated to the flash is bound to do this. Just look at the copious amounts of PIS in flash's entire run in comics and you could have people come to the same conclusion, but they don't because reasons. Look at smallville: clark is ftl and he also made plenty of mistakes.

CW speedsters are to inconsistent to be used in a debate.

People do think Flash jobs though. He just doesn't do it as severely or consistently as CW Flash. I haven't seen Smallville so I can't comment.

But seriously, he doesn't just "make mistakes" half of the problems on the show are his fault. He has some great moments where he actually realizes who he's meant to be, but they're mixed in with a whole bunch of complete stupidity.

I have the same exact feelings.

Instead of hurling the word "jobbing" or "pis" around (some situations are PIS), the weaker characters should just be scaled up and we should come to the realization that they may just be that powerful.

Use them and say no jobbing and it would be more fair

All speedsters are hard to use in a battle. It's the best characteristic to have in a logical fight. In cases where the speedsters have enough of it, it's hard to write them a way to lose. In the case of Flash, it's much more obvious because jobbing is his way of life. He always guides to his opponents. He'll beat a high tier threat like Zoom with the same difficulty he'd beat a villain of the week. Same thing in battles. He'd probably do equally well against MCU Thor and MCU Cap, despite their radically different power levels. But it applies to the other speedsters as well, they either stomp or get stomped.

Take Zoom. The can put Zoom against the Avengers and the consensus would be that Zoom wins. You put Flash in the same match and he gets slaughtered. But Flash beat Zoom quite easily already. You can chock that up to jobbing, but replace Barry with Fox Quicksilver. He'd beat Zoom due to superior speed but lose to The Avengers due to less versatility in his speed. So it comes out CW Zoom > MCU Avengers > Fox Quicksilver/CW Flash < CW Zoom. I'm not sure this analogy was as clear as it was in my head, but what I'm saying is there's no real way to make a fair match with any speedster, not just a CW one. It goes beyond just jobbing, it's inherint to the power set.

only flash jobs. RF and zoom don't

No, they shouldn't be banned. Him being a speedster is NOT the problem. None of the other speedsters job, The problem IS Barry himself. He is simply incompotent and is and just terrible fighter. He will literally run up to his oppoenent, slow down to normal speed and get tagged or he'll stand around bragging instead of finishing his opponent off. If I were to list all the non-speedster characters who've managed to tag him, I'd be here all day.

Sure, speedsters from other mediums do job but Barry does it almost every time without fail. It has become the the norm for him. Even after returning from the speedforce, he still gets tagged by girder. Barry literally cannot win a fight on his own without some sort of prep/help from StarLabs or other outside factors

Man........marvel fanboys are really butthurt about DC speedsters/blitzers

@supremeintelligence: zoom got beat by barry twice last episode did u not watch it he does not job

@thedarkking25: not anymore but I was referring to the seasons as a whole

I don't see a problem with using them in battles. You just need to remember that just because CW speedsters and in fact any live action speedster has super-speed they aren't moving at that speed all the time there are times they are moving at normal speed, and even though they are capable of moving fast enough to avoid nearly any attack. if they are unaware of it they can still get hit.

This. Flash moves several times faster than light, yet gets tagged or annoyed by his usual rogue gallery who are nowhere near as fast as him in a serious matchup, in a real serious matchup would you really use that as evidence to cite that Flash would lose to say someone like Batman or maybe Spiderman who would never tag him realistically? When we do comicvine battles, although we can safely assume that the characters in question are in character, that doesn't mean we are going to automatically assume that they are going to job in a battle against someone just because they did it in their comic/tv show/ cartoon which is usually done due to the writer making the story more interesting, and not have the story end in five minutes.

Sorry but anyone who tries so hard to lowball a character because of in character tendencies in my opinion simply need to take the characters normal abilities into consideration instead of focusing on that character at their lowest points. And sometimes when a character jobs or suffers to PIS/CIS there is usually context that is missing that could be explained in a missing panel someone on a forum forgot to post.

@deathhero61:

Sorry but anyone who tries so hard to lowball a character because of in character tendencies in my opinion simply need to take the characters normal abilities into consideration instead of focusing on that character at their lowest points.

This is sound logic. But the thing people seem to be missing is that those are his normal abilties. You're average everyday CW Flash is a terrible fighter and will literally find a way to lose no matter how implausible it would seem. The outliers are when he actually does perform well and fight with some skill.

Unless a battle op specifies "out of character", in character tendencies will always be relevant to the discussion.

By that reasoning flash loses to aunt may. It's not a fair evaluation of the character. Sometimes Flash would be tagged by people he shouldn't be tagged by while moving at pretty solid speeds. Its actually ridiculous. Even in his Mach 2-3 days he should have been for the most part untouchable by most of his enemies except Savage and Speedsters.

Look at the other bit of my post

@deathhero61:

Sometimes Flash would be tagged by people he shouldn't be tagged by while moving at pretty solid speeds. Its actually ridiculous. Even in his Mach 2-3 days he should have been for the most part untouchable by most of his enemies except Savage and Speedsters.

I completely agree, none of that stuff should happen (Savage shouldn't tag him either). But it does, consistently. It sucks but it's who the character is, and the version used on the battle forums. If you don't like it write to CW.

@buildhare: Savage's speed actually surprised Barry on two separate occasions, Savage has outright dodged bullets after they are fired with ease in close range, has thrown his knives at a speed where Barry was close to failing to catch them, nearly putting just as much effort as he did with the bullets he caught when Joe shot at wells. Savage is underestimated.

But when it came to actually tagging him he did it through skill, not speed. The knives were still moving to slowly to tag Flash normally.

Savage is underestimated because outside of the crossover he was jobbed to oblivion. He's suffered the same problem Barry has, albeit to a lesser degree.

Short answer? Yes, yes we should.