Is the infinity trilogy (Thanos) canon to 616 reality? (Regarding HotU) [UPDATED]

I have heard people saying that HotU isn't canon. However, seeing how HotU was referred in infinity arc - in infinity relativity, it means one of the two things:

• HotU is canon
• Infinity relativity/revealetion/finale isn't canon

Which one is true?

Update

https://news.marvel.com/comics/84053/soul-searching-part-two/

According to this, Marvel's official website acknowledges that the Infinity Trilogy is canon to the 616 Marvel Universe, and it was 616 Adam Warlock that was ressurected in the end.

This is further supported by the fact that in Ultimates, new Living Tribunal was acknowledged (and somehow killed by Chaos/Order)

Therefore, all evidences point to the Infinity Trilogy being canon to 616 Marvel, and hence Marvel Universe: The End as well.

@apex_pretador: when was HotU referenced?

You mean Infinity Finale?

I remember someone on this forum saying that the event you mentioned was not referring to the HOTU but to a different time when he gained omnipotence. In that instance, I think, it does not specify the HOTU directly, so people can say that the HOTU has never been referenced and is not canon because of the author's statement that it is not canon.

@apex_pretador: infinity is canon.

But when did they refernce HOTU i infinity, becuase i missed it.

@emperorthanos: @helloman: @nerevarine_11: @rabumalal:

Scans:

Gallery

Heart of the Universe isn't canon. Infinity is

See above post.

Brevoort claims Hotu isn't canon but he and the other editors never had the balls to keep Starlin from referencing it on numerous occasions since then so it will never be full resolved as to whether it should be considered as canonical. Its almost up to the reader to decide.

@spambot:

Is that all which makes HotU non-canon? Because in that case I would say on panel showing >> Author statement.

Especially when it is coming from an author like that, lol, who thinks that Gladiator is slower than an average person in reflexes, and Odin is just planetary

With those scans referencing specific events with the HOTU and with the author and question having contradictory showings of characters in relation to other sources and statements, I would say that the HOTU event is canon. Another instance that I can think of that is like this is when Darkseid was defeated by Doomsday and the author said it was the true Darkseid. That instance contradicts later showings of the character and I think, I am not sure, other sources of information for the character. Anyway, thanks for the scans. They helped me be more informed about Thanos.

That's not Infinity. It's Starlin's latest Infinity trilogy. Since he wrote the heart of the universe story, he references it. Brevoort claims all of The End stories aren't canon. For all we know right now, this may be considered non-canon as well (at least by Brevoort).

I think we'll only know for sure if we see an appearance of Warlock Living Tribunal.

@apex_pretador: Pretty much. Starlin obviously wrote it thinking it was canon though.

yeah I know relativity, revelation & finale. Maybe I should just edit the title in case it doesn't confuse people.

And I agree, LT warlock's appearance now would 100% confirm its canonicity.

but again, brevoot has said things like Odin is barely planetary, Gladiator is as slow as regular human, etc. so I won't put much stock in what he says.

HotU has been referenced in Thanos #1-12, no?

I didn't think so but checked and lo and behold, right in the first issue.

(Starlin also takes the time to retcon Thanos' defeat in the Thor books as a Thanosi early here)

Also, I thought I remembered seeing it elsewhere and found this in the Thanos Sourcebook which was written in the style of Nova Corps files on Thanos' history.

I think Brevoort is just hatin'

@jloneblackheart: Starlin has referenced the HotU events like 3 different times since it happened.

Do you have scans of Darkseid being an avatar in HP?

@apex_pretador: Sorry, for replying to you so late. No, I do not. I do not have the comic that the event happens in. I just think that the Darkseid having avatars thing is said after that event and thus applies to it, because I looked at scans and statements on different threads. I do not think any of those scans I looked at said Darkseid was an avatar in that instance.

This is an interesting post , if I'm not mistaken its also referenced by TOAA itself during infinity finale, seeing as there is only ever one TOAA (OAA) then its must be a canon event, he said thanos had a taste of omniversal power in the past , which I take to mean HOtU

Yes!!

HOTU has been referenced.

*Unless they were referring to a different amp, which I doubt...

@cosmic_reign: Exactly, cant think of any other amp that could he omniversal

Brevoort says it is not canon, Jim Starlin says it is canon.

I remember reading an article which said that The End was canon, but then the editors didn´t want to have a story where evil triumphs and the entire universe is alive only due to Thanos.

If this is true, then it is canon, editors just got too scared and decided it was not.

@jloneblackheart: Which issue is this from ??

@thor_parker82: it is probably from Thanos solo series from 2003-04

Yup. Thanos Vol. 1 #1

Thanks

@spambot: @thor_parker82: @cull_obsidian: @majinblackheart:

Updated the OP, everything is canon according to the evidence provided

Why you still on Windows 7?

@apex_pretador: Thats good news , although more of a confirmation, as there was plenty of evidence anyway

I did a post about it , post 1147

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/thanos-221/thanos-discussion-thread-thanos-16-preview-1882321/?page=23

@cull_obsidian: Thanks, though many people questioned the canonicity of Infinity Revealtion, relativity, finale - not just The End. That's why I made this thread.

@apex_pretador: Yeah it really irritates me as one of the main reasons for it seemingly being non canon is the idiot Ton brevoort , hes the one who caused starlin to leave marvel again recently. He approved cates' arc even tho its very similar to starlins up coming infinity trilogy

Yeah man I got most of the info from this thread lol ?

@apex_pretador:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/12/19/jim-starlin-infinity-siblings-final-thanos/

Tom Brevoort also disregards The End as canon , stopped starlin from using warlock for a time and didn't tell starlin about the ending of infinity and what else was going to happen , hence why infinity revelation - Finale feel a bit out of continuity

It's been referenced too many times to not be Canon, it has more evidence to be canon than actual canon stories and it's required for Thanos's character, it would be like making King Thor not canon, Thor's character arc to now wouldn't work.

@kevd4wg: many popular debaters don't consider king Thor canon

@apex_pretador: Not the reigning Thor I mean like Odin-Force Thor where he is refrenced in a bunch of other stories

@apex_pretador: More (if somewhat tounge in cheek) evidence of the Heart of the universe being canon,fromThanos Annual 2018

@cull_obsidian: Indeed.

The editor said it wasn't canon, but its been referenced as canon in like what three different stories? Starlin never treated as anything but canon.

Also when Breveroot said it wasn't didnt he say that none of the "end stories" were. So maybe Starlin misunderstood what they wanted from a the end story, or Breveroot though it was none of those what if like endings when it wasnt?