Is PIS even real?!

Ok so many people claim that certain feats or moments in comics are PIS, or plot induced stupidity. But considering it is the writers of the comics that dictate a character's strength, can we as readers really claim that such a feat is "stupidity" if the writer says it's within the character's ability? Should we claim that "X beating Y" is just for the sake of plot just because we believe the character shouldn't be able to do it, if the writer puts the feat within the realm of plausibility?

It is only real on this site when people are butthurt in battle forum and dislike a feat that is being used vs them

@batbro15: whos your fav hero?

Yes is it's real.

@meatman: Probably Bats, but I've been reading a lot of Spider-Man recently. But the Batman=PIS line of thought isn't why I posted this

Its real, the problem its that people only notice this when some characters do this and when they dont like it.

Batman being the main target, since it has became huge part of why people like Batman and why some people hate him.

Sure i love Batman, but hate when the PIS gets out of hands and became the CHEW FORCE!!!

PIS is not real. People forget that comics aren't made to pander to battle forums their made to tell stories and make money. If I wanted to I could say Superman (or other Aliens) breathing on Earth is PIS because the Atmosphere on Earth is made for humans not Kryptonians or Martians. If flying men is within the realms of suspension of disbelief then martial artists and tactic ions holding off Aliens should be fine and not PIS.

PIS is real due to WIS.

there are stupid writers and stupid writers lead to plot induced stupidity.

if the plot is done in a logical way

eg. Batman tagging Flash because Flash is not running at lightspeed and is distracted.

It is not PIS, since Flash speed is not always equal to the speed of light and Batman know that Flash personality is prone to distraction. Plus Batman has geniusl level intellect and observation as his skills

If the plot is done in a illogical way

eg. Dr Doom being overwhemed by park Squirrels and crying on how helpless have he become

Then that is PIS, because logically Dr. Doom is capable of resisting such pathetic attack that even a simple human in armor can practically do.

People should really learn how suspension of disbelief works.

Its a contract that the writer give you a good story that follows his own internal logic and the reader goes with it.

PIS means destroying the internal logic.

Squirrel Girl has the plot power, so every time she beats some one, it doesnt break his own internal logic.

But when Batman beat the JLA, because he is Batman, then they go and remember you how normal human he is, even when if he was human he would had got killed just by Superman alone (Superintelligence), that its PIS, because SuperMan will always be smarter that a normal human.

Ask Squirrel Girl or Firelord.

No. It's just an overused catchphrase.

PIS is not real. It is something people on comicvine created as an excuse for when there's a feat they don't like. People need to understand that comic books are not written for feats. The writers care little about maintaining feats, they write stories. Whatever they give us is what we have to deal with.

Very real

Not really. The performance of any given character varies so widely between writers, story arcs, etc, that establishing what a character's concrete limitations are is pretty much impossible because there are none. Mostly it's just a thing for people to shout angrily when their favorite character loses a fight or someone they dislike wins a fight without having to come up with a good, logically plot-based reason for the fight to have gone the other way. Also, it belies a lack of understanding that a story is a story first, not a computer simulator of hypothetical battles.

Yes, it is real. But it's a very overused term that users apply to scenarios they don't like.

This a thousand times. if something happens in a comic, then it happened. If Deathstroke tags Flash...then he tagged Flash, wether you think he should be able to or not. I once used the PIS term a lot until I realized it for what is...a term comic fans come up with to explain away something that happened that they don't like. In my case, it was when the writer was writing a feat or battle differently than I would've written it were it up to me.

Of course its real, I mean firelord got stomped by f*cking spiderman....

@manwhohaseverything: Agreed if some one doesn't like the way a character is portrayed then they should become a writer and write a comic where deathstroke gets beat up by Flash (just for example).

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: If you can explain how this happens then I'll believe you

Indeed it's real. Because consistency in comics is a pipe dream.

If a guy who can lift mountains, tank nukes, and do a dozen other things finds himself getting smashed by a mid carder without logical context explaining why that is the case, it goes to say that the writer used plot induced stupidity to tell their story.

In a perfect world writers would be good enough to tell stories and use characters in a consistent manner. Continuity simply doesn't matter to some as much as hacking their story.

Batman taking hits from darkseid is pis, because it has been established that it takes but a bane to break the bat. He doesn't die simply because the plot calls for him not to.

Pis doesn't make a story bad, or anything remotely like that, and it certainly doesn't happen just because comics have multiple writers, it's just a writer using a tool (although one that can easily backfire). The only reason it's mentioned so much on the site is because some instances just don't represent a character's strength as a whole.

@primez0ne: non cannon

That didn't answer the question.

While the story itself is non cannon the characters themselves are based on the cannon versions. Plus if that isn't good enough for you than what about Spiderman vs Firelord or Namor vs Thing in AvX?

if writers were consistent, PIS wouldn't exist

@primez0ne: @jwalser3: because it is non cannon theres no way of telling how powerful venom is, plus squirell girls is non canon and she's not pis either,

Firelord vs spidey is bad writing not bad plot

Namor vs thing isnt PiS at all

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2:

@primez0ne: @jwalser3: because it is non cannon theres no way of telling how powerful venom is, plus squirell girls is non canon and she's not pis either,

Unless there is context to say why venom that powerful or him being any different the cannon venom then that is still a case of bad writing. Never mentioned Squirrel girl

Firelord vs spidey is bad writing not bad plot

So you believe in WIS but not PIS?

Namor vs thing isnt PiS at all

Being incapacitated by some creature's teeth makes little sense for Namor

Yeah but writers are humans and humans are not perfect so this mistake will continue to happen.

@primez0ne: All those things happen (canon or not) because the writer says they happened, and they get to decide. It's like the OP said, we may think it's stupid but if the writers/editors think it passes muster, than it does, and our opinions don't mean jack. So..can Spider-man beat Firelord? Apparently he can, it happened. Does it make sense? That's another debate, but it happened. It may make little sense, be inconsistent or whatever, but once something happens, we have to accept it. We can't just throw out PIS so we can pretend it didn't happen. If I wanted to, I could call Spider-man's very existence "PIS" because being bitten by a radioactive spider would give you cancer, not super-powers.

Hellbat is the PIS machine.

Just because it happens doesn't make it right. If a writer writes Spider man beating TOAA and there was no legit reason given for why he was able to do that, would you just accept that? PIS doesn't mean something never happened but that it doesn't make sense which even you admit these things don't. It mostly only has any significance in the battle forums anyway which is why it isn't used much in response to regular story elements. By following the logic in comics then yes Spiderman getting bit by a radioactive spider makes sense but winning against a herald of Galactus when Spiderman by the comic's standard of him being a lot more weaker makes no sense.

And there you have it "comic-logic" I guess I'm at the point where if I can accept that Spider bites give you super-powers, or that an alien coming to a planet with a different colored sun=Super powers, or Gamma radiation= 160 lb man turns in 2000 lb Hulk or that a planet has a "speed force" and only a select few can tap into it, then I shouldn't expect everything to make sense. So..if Spider-man beats the TOAA without an explanation would I accept it? Yes I would.When the story was over I'd toss it aside and say "That was really stupid, why couldn't the writer have done a better job? I give this story an F" but if someone were to ask "Can Spider-man beat TOAA?" I'd have to say "Yes he can, because he DID."

Well, even if they happened PIS is real since it is not a consistent thing.. As in - we can have bats beat supes but if we put them in a battle supes wins.

I think it is real but it's only a real big issue when debates are being had. There are situation when some trickery needs to be added to make something work, and sometimes it can get pretty ridiculous but if it didn't exist the same people would always do the same thing all the time.

But come on, Batman is hands down the PIS king. (to the point where I think it hurts his character in a lot of comic fans eyes, outside his die-hards atleast). lol

Lets not forget how batman dodged the omega beams

Pis at it's finest

You can't justify batman dodging it when the flash ( superspeed) had trouble dodging it

There is a certain level of suspension in comics but if there is no logic in it how can you make any serious stories? If Spider-man is more powerful than TOAA then how can he any trouble with any of his villains? Are they all omnipotent? PIS doesn't mean it didn't happen it just means it makes no sense and can't be taken seriously.

Real or not real aren't really good traits to describe PIS. Plot induced stupidity is used by some to account for inconsistencies and discrepancies they find in comics, its not a very good term though because there is a lot in comics that is stupid that most people either do not realize is stupid because they aren't intelligent enough or knowledgeable in physics, science, psychology, chemistry, maths, biology, astronomy so on to realize or they do know and have different degrees of what they are willing to suspend disbelief for, which is more relative and subjective. When most of the origins of powers of Marvel and DC are PIS - as in only exist because of plot reasons, as in not consistent with what should happen in reality, and so therefore "stupid" or fantastical, well you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think how they interact with other fantastical characters isn't going to have some inconsistencies or discrepancies to cater more to the plot.

Funny thing is that character and personality aspects often have inconsistencies, discrepancies, but apparently thats not as big a sin as getting a characters power levels wrong or having them lose or win due to PIS. Almost leads one to think that a lot of people just use the term PIS when they are more emotionally/mentally invested in their own ideas about which characters can kick other characters butts rather than consistency or discrepancies… and then there are some people that don't use the term PIS. They actually just refer to inconsistencies and discrepancies… as shock horror, inconsistencies and discrepancies. They talk about what they consider good writing and bad writing practices. Wolverine beating up Justice League in a cross over comic would be bad writing in the sense its more consistent for Wolverine to struggle against such powerful characters, you wouldn't see Wolverine solo the Avengers, and its deeper than just powers as well. Wolverine as a character is a scrapper, someone who can be overwhelmed occasionally by human characters or stronger than average human type characters, skilled ones, where as Justice League as a team, the spirit of the team is to face massive Earth wide threats. A fairly tough and feral mutant isn't a global threat. So its a disservice to both characters to some degree. Not that it would be impossible to write a good story with Wolverine against the Justice League. You can get some good Wolverine vs Hulk and X-Men team stories. Against the Justice League the focus of the story could be how relatively tough and durable he is, even in defeat. That being said… they are still fictional characters. Superman couldn't fly when he first appeared or lift planets. Thing could only lift a few tones. Now he can lift a hundred. Fictional characters often change, develop in ways that don't make sense or conform to reality or any objective process. Also as stupid as Wolverine fighting and beating the Justice League is stupid, many of the powers, personalities, character histories of these characters are stupid. Thats what makes them fun for so many.

Basically PIS is for lazy people who want to talk about lack of consistency, common sense, discrepancies in comics that seem to occur for the "plot" without actually saying all that and the details. Aka people write much smaller and sensible length posts than moi. ^_^.

PIS is caused by the writer wanting their own story that isn't linked to the others. Think about it this way- Red Hulk came in as a walking talking unstoppable monster, was he "PIS"? No, he was originally written that way, and then later weakened, like Beyonder. PIS occurs for the sake of the story, or the laziness of the writer. When it's for the sake of the story, it's entertaining, like Wolverine beating Sabretooth even though he really shouldn't on paper. When it's caused by writer laziness, a B, C, or D list villain appears so that the comic has action, it becomes boring and obvious, almost a trope.

So true, agreed.

These are fictitious characters, man. Marvel, DC, Image Comic, Dragonball z, Pokemon, Sonic, Witchblade and all other companies are writing a story for entertainment not seriousness. Spider-man can stomp TOAA but have trouble with weaker villains, because the script writer says so. Comics are a entertainment not a science. Nobody besides like Comicvine, Animevice and maybe like reddit give 1 cent about feats and character showings. The average Comic user buys the comic to read and enjoy it for what it is not search and compare random feats for different characters.

That and regardless of what feats you usually find the whole character vs character thing still doesn't work.

1. Every character has inconsistencies

2. Different writers have a different portrayal of each character

3. There is absolutely no way to know what or how the character would actually fight like since the character isn't real, and this ties into number 4.

4. You become the writer when you say a characters actions, and when you set up a match because in a sense you are writing the scenario.

Lets take Batman vs Spider-man for example:

What gadgets do Batman have? Does Spider-man blitz? Can Batman dodge? Does Spider-man goof around and make jokes like he does in the Comics? Is Batman prepped? Where is the fight taking place? Why are they fighting in the first place, they're both heroes and should be on the same side? How are they able to see each other at all since they live in two completely different universes?

On the battle forum when you start answering question like those, and saying actions for a character you become the writer, since you are saying both characters action and saying what they can and cannot do.

It's a term that gets misused, but it certainly applies sometimes.

Err, that doesn't follow. Bane wouldn't have been able to touch Bats in the Hellbat armor.