DC Talks Diversity in Its Creators and Updates Readers on Milestone's Return

This is so true

Frank was forced to quit by Rucka and his intolerant behavior.

There is a huge difference between writing a character correctly and using a character's background to force your own agenda. Wonder Woman is everyone's champion. Greg Rucka will block you and get you fired for having a different opinion.

Don't reach conclusions from the first month's sales. Wait 6 months or a year first. The first issue of New 52's Wonder Woman also sold well. Also since when do sales represent quality? Many great books get cancelled all the time when average books keep going for a number of reasons. I read the actual issues and they were fine, yet they failed to amaze me and keep me at the edge of my seat since that was what they basically promised.

Even in pre-52 Milestone Characters were getting deplayed, Static was basically a background character until that Dakota arc which wasn't bad also fact Hardware was getting knocked around by Hawkman. If anything I rather see them in there own universe do what they do best. Maybe down the line they will integrate but not now

Just like DC is recapturing the true essence of their characters, milestone needs to stay in their true essence as well. They don't need to be background characters or used as extras to show diversity, they need to be able to stand on their own and be respected as that. If it could be a completely separate company all together then that would be the best bet. Start small and build up to be a larger company

That's not true. Frank Cho had the option to redraw the cover more to DC and Rucka's liking, but instead cried "censorship" and quit. If your an artist being paid to do a job and you refuse to change your creative decisions to suit your client's needs, you gave up. Unless people were threatening to blackball Cho behind the scenes (which I highly doubt), no one forced him out.

This, pretty much. It's like when people dislike Captain America for getting too political (facepalm). Wonder Woman is a feminist. There are different types of feminism and art often immitates life. If you can't read Wonder Woman because she's taking a stance you don't like or talking about a feminist issue that you are uncomfortable disscussing, read a different comic book.

Also, whether you know it or not, every writer has an agenda, because if they didn't have anything to say to the readers, they wouldn't be writing a story. You don't have to agree with writers on a personal level to enjoy their product. For example, I find Frank Miller to be a despicable person but I can still enjoy the Dark Knight Returns, just as I find Alan Moore to be a complete hypocrite who constantly rips apart the industry that gave him his fame, but the Killing Joke is still excellent and For the Man Who Has Everything is one of my top 3 favorite stories in comics.

Very nice. This is the best way of creating diversity in your setting. Bringing in original characters that haven't gotten much attention and putting them in the spotlight.

I don't see how making and separating out a "black" comic book imprint is in any way progressing diversity. They won't be picked up by mainstream readers near as much just due to not having the "DC" logo. You aren't making diversity in your company by making a sub-company for different people and segregating them all away from the main group, that's the exact opposite. I am 100% for more diversity in and making the pages, but they shouldn't be relegated to a B universe with C tier characters.

You have your facts wrong. Frank Cho was promised full freedom to draw Wonder Woman's variant covers. Variant covers. They have nothing to do with the story, they are merely a marketing tool and the writer of the book should under no circumstances demand from the artist to change them especially when there is nothing wrong. Also, DC was OK with Frank, it was just Rucka that had a problem. Not only a one time problem but he constantly kept asking for the covers to change. When someone creates unhealthy conditions on your dream job and an atmosphere full of tension forcefully and on purpose you just move away. Thankfully he got an upgrade to Trinity.

Look a couple of posts above for my reply to the other user's point of view you mentioned.

And, yes Frank Miller is despicable, Alan Moore is a hypocrite and now Rucka is a hypocrite too... So, should I support their work? I prefer to give my money to another writer that deserves it. Heck, I'll take good writers with good attitude over great writers with horrible attitude at all times. And their stories? I don't personally find them that good in the first place and think they are seriously over-hyped.

Anyway, I think we are getting out of topic. Feel free to tag me at the respective thread on the Wonder Woman forums if you feel like continuing this conversation.

@scbetton: To be fair, I understand Static was pretty well done pre-Flashpoint and Young Justice isn't really indicative pf the books. The show was good, but it was bloated as Hell. Rocket and Icon were relative unknowns, so of course one of the biggest hits of the DCAU would get more play.

@Opalance: dc doesn't handle milestone characters well, if it stays with the original company, it will produce better stories. It was already good enough to get a cartoon series and survived the 90's. From what DC did manage of the milestone characters they let them crash and burn. Static came out as one of the first books in the new 52 and it failed because of the creative team not getting along. Xombie came out at the same time and did well on sales too but DC didn't push that as well. There's been opportunities but DC can't grasp it that well and can't do anything good with it.

@scouterv: I understand that but DC showcased other unknown characters as well in justice league unlimited and still managed that better than injustice. It's just a matter of how' it's done. These past few years haven't given me much faith in DC maintaining their lesser known characters right. I don't trust them with milestone

Young justice not injustice

@scbetton: But Unlimited also didn't have to establish the core characters unlike YJ.

"Reginald Hudlin."

"Christopher Priest."

@scbetton: I know, I have the new 52 Static Shock and have volumes of Static and Icon and the Worlds Collide event, but who says they can get back the same people at all, or that they will have the same success now as they did 20+ years ago in a completely different era, or it will relate as well. Milestone did go under after just 4 years after all...

@Opalance: yeah it's possible it won't be as big as it used to be but it's also possible it could be better as well. In the era it was in some of those characters weren't well received because of the race or sexual preference. Today's readers are more excepting or those type of characters so it might be better. But it all depends on how the characters are written. The artists they have on board now are really good so it's all on the story to succeed for it to jump off to a good start.

@scbetton: I just don't see the need for it. I want to see Milestone characters interacting with DC characters. Part of the reason I couldn't get into the new 52 Static run was all the people being thrown at me with no backstory, lack of recognizable, fleshed out, characters. I just found myself not caring. I love the idea of Icon, I feel the way they shaped Static in new 52 as just another super smart, tech wonderkin is just..overused. You already have Cyborg and Mister Terrific (who is perhaps my favorite hero who I have around 200 issues of him), Steel, Luke Fox, who all fit the same bill to different extents. I have the whole Cyborg, Mister Terrific, and Batwing new 52 runs, and while they all use their smarts differently, Cyborg lets his tech do the work, Mister Terrific is always using his mind, Batwing using his fists, Steel fights with his heart, where does Static differ? Static is supposed to be cool, and except Cyborg, the others are pretty stiff. He should be back in with the Teen Titans where he made a couple appearances already where they could let him just be himself and have someone to play off of instead of floating around in a characterless void.

That being said, I don't think you can just remove him and Hardware from continuity in DC and plop them in their own universe again, it lacks a reader base and recognizable draw for readers. They could make like a Milestone "family" like Batfamily or Superfamily lines, where you have crossing over and lots of interplay between the books, just place them back in Dakota, which is in continuity already. I just don't see any reason to recreate a company that wasn't financially viable, especially when you have so many strong, now fleshed out, black DC superheroes nowdays, with a long, ongoing title featuring a black Superman even.

@Opalance: that's actually a good idea. I would like that because then it would still feel like their own world but still have the possibility of interacting with DC characters. But I would include to have a reliable editorial team for each book along with the creative team. Get good promotion, like really good promotion and keep the buzz around the milestone series going on. Get them involved in crossovers too. Their own and major DC crossovers as well.

Awesome idea.

I'd rather the Milestone characters have their own universe like Miles Morales once did so that they don't have to play second fiddle to anyone like Batman or Damian Wayne or Wonder Woman or whoever.

One of the biggest problems with black heroes is that they aren't allowed to be better than anyone. They aren't allowed to be the best at anything. They're always sidekicks or second tier, with the exception of Black Panther, who has his own country. Even Cyborg is a bus and personal computer to Batman.

There are only so many important roles in a universe, so if having a separate one gives characters like Icon or Hardware a chance to take center stage, then that's a good thing.

And it's not like you can't have inter-dimensional crossovers.

@scbetton: Oh of course, there's nothing worse than getting into a series and then all of a sudden the art drastically changes or the writing goes off the deep end and you're left with one person's vision of a character arc just thrown out the window.

They almost did something like what I mean with Wildstorm, they had Grifter and Stormwatch and Midnighter, but really Midnighter was the only one to break out of it and into larger continuity, the Engineer and Grifter in Futures End being the only other blip on the radar. I don't even want to count the travesty that was Team 7 and their "Majestic" which was as far from the characters as you could get...BUT they tried and had some success, Stormwatch lasted for a while and Midnighter got something of a limited continuation with Apollo. I think again, the lack of crossing over and integration is the problem. Popping in a couple red lanterns or mentioning another hero occasionally doesn't really cut it.

I think tying them in with other groups would go a long way, and shows like Static Shock and Young Justice did more good for demand than any amount of marketing could have, even if Icon was just a background piece with no backstory, he's in the minds of people now. Sliding in Static with Teen Titans, at least on a part time basis, having crossovers of Icon and Rocket with maybe Green Lanterns in some sort of alien law mystery thing to uncover his backstory for a new generation, them investigating some alien bounty hunter (maybe Lobo?) coming to hunt down Icon for whatever reason, have his series spin out of that if it's well received. I dunno, just an idea I thought of.

The market seems awash in Supermans atm though with Superman clones, New Super-Man, Gotham, Gotham Girl, Supergirl, Superboy, Superwoman, Superkid, even Cyborg Superman and Eradicator and Bizarro plus Earth 2 Superman and SuperLex. Icon might have to wait for some of those to get weeded out.

Does Cyborg still sit at the back of that bus?

When they actually reveal Milestone projects, I'll believe it. Until then, I'm not believing anything.

@captain13: That's not really true in there only being so many important roles in the universe. If you read multiple titles you realize that everyone is dealing with their own potentially world ending stuff at the same time. Martian Manhunter stops worlds from colliding while JLI is stopping huge golems from tearing apart the earth while Superman is stopping a Kryptonian reject from wiping out the earth while JL Dark is keeping some magician from taking the root of all magic, etc etc.

Also EVERYONE plays second fiddle to Batman...the dude has over a dozen titles since new 52 in his belt and multiple organizations or families bearing his name.

I personally think that one of the most overlooked black characters if Mister Terrific. He's been leader of the JSA, Checkmate, been in the center of two very successful titles in new 52, and is held up as a nearly peerless mind and rival to Batman and Wayne Industries in futures' end, which fleshed out his character in an elseworld's type of way.

Plus in my opinion, separating black characters into their own universe is just segregation, saying they aren't deep enough or interesting enough to cut it with the "real" superheros. Like I said above, there's no shortage of characters with the same attributes, but they all have different roles to fill.

I'm all for them having their own city or cities. One of my favorite concepts in Superheros is them having their own "turf". There's so many cases of the DC universe or others being big enough to have multiple groups or areas for everyone...

That's exciting, I've always loved Milestone

Now, what about Wildstorm dammit?

@scbetton: That hardly seems fair, the Static show had 3 successful seasons.

@captain13:I don't know how true that is, it varies by media interpretation, look at the animated universe.

Static was somehow able to beat the entire Justice League when they were being mind controlled.

John Stewart was featured as the main GL rather than Hal Jordan and he was one of the most powerful members of the group, he had numerous episodes where he was either the lead or the leader of the group. My favorite is when they were transported to a different world, stuck in the 1950s forever by a super powered psychic mutant.

Also, it's not just by race, look at how many Superman analogs there are who are white and black; Steel, Captain Atom, Icon, Captain Marvel, they all come close but I am betting DC would always write it so Superman came out on top. Same goes for Wonder Woman, Batman, etc.

What I liked was that Vixen got her own short animated series that tied into Arrow and Flash and then the brought her in. I could actually see her being more useful than Supergirl (especially since Supergirls show isn't very good).

This all day

@justiceteen: question how it forced when these characters were already established?

@doc-holiday: I know but DC have shown me throughout the years that they can't manage milestone characters. They don't even push their own minority characters enough.cyborg didn't have a solo series until last year when every member of the justice league had solos in 2011. Each of their solos hit 52 issues as well despite some of them hitting poor sales. Static had a solo series in 2011 too and only last 8 issues. DC didn't even really try to keep it alive so no I don't trust them with milestone. Milestone doesn't even trust them with their characters.

Icon and Rocket !!!!

@scbetton: You're not wrong but not all white characters do great solo either, they only recently improved Aquaman :P

@doc-holiday: yeah they put the most work into aqua man, hawkman, and teen titans. But mister terrific and static got cancelled immediately when the sales drop. I'm just saying those titles had potential, I don't know how you can mess up static, he actually has a huge rogues gallery and a great supporting cast.

I don't disagree with you about Static, but unfortunately DC doesn't have the money or support Marvel does to support failing sales/comics. Sam Wilson as Cap has had rather mediocre sales since the beginning but continues because of Marvel's backer; Disney.

DC on the other hand can't play fast and loose.

I do feel they should try harder, like putting better writers on Static

@doc-holiday: teen titans failed miserably and they still brought it back right after it cancelled. Scott lobdell ran it to the ground and they brought it back with him on writing duties again.

I'll need to look into that. I never read the Teen Titans series. I honestly stayed away from it because of the way butchered the show. The characters used to be deep and cool.

Unfortunately, I think DC is so caught up in money they don't allow the genuinely creative people who work for them to express themselves properly

Agreed. I wished that Marvel didn't end Ultimate Universe because that is where Mile Morales belongs..

I have been fairly ecstatic with with Rebirth thus far. As a "Marvel fanboy" (I read about 25 Marvel titles a month currently to what was 2 DC titles by the end of New 52) I am finding that the new direction of Rebirth is more in-tune to the kind of comics I'm interested in.

I think people are focusing too much on the wrong side of the "pandering" being done by Marvel. Marvel's major issues isn't the race-bending/gender-bending right now as it is the trend to "Disney-ize" all of their books. Just look at the mess that is the GOTG sub-universe. Every title is written as if it was meant for a toddler. When I was a pre-teen/teenager I wanted more serious comics. 7 year olds don't have $4 for comicbooks...

I don't see DC's angle as "quota meeting". DC is pushing/presenting new characters/existing characters like the Milestone ones or the new Lanterns. If they were doing what Marvel was doing, Superman would be a Nazi, Batman would be replaced with a teenage/trans-gender/Muslim, Hal Jordan would be replaced by a non-white female and be deemed unworthy of his ring, and Wonder Woman would be leading the Justice League and telling Cyborg to stop "man-splaining" to her.

I want it too.

Dropping in to say "yes please more milestone".

Hey look at you DC for a company that created Tyroc's original backstory, to Lois Lane goes black, to egg fu, to whenever you where drawing comics in WW2, you made some whoopsies. BUT now you fixed all of that, I'd pat you on the back but I don't believe companies are people.

same

I hope this is done organically without feeling forced like Marvel.

I really hope for a DCEU Blue Bettle movie, they could take an Ant-Man approach with Ted Kord mentoring Jaime Reyes, not to mention it would be a homerun for DC, they would be the first ones to get a superhero movie with a latin lead.

Static is the only Milestone's character who should join the DC universe. The others need to be in their own universe, expecially Icon who is a Superman ripoff.

DC needs to valorize their minority heroes like Cyborg, Mr Terrific, Vixen, John Stewart, Nubia, Dr Light, Atom (Ryan Choi), Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Katana, Vibe and Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes). Maybe they should also create new ones, expecially black women (IMO Natasha Irons would be a far more interesting Steel than John Henry Irons).

But Icon wasn't what I expected. He had the strength, super speed, flight, invulnerability. But beyond that he had different powers even able to turn his invulnerability off. But even more so his dynamic with Rocket in the start. Here was a well educated black man with a full knowledge of history, and his sadness at the current state of things and unable to understand it. Here was a girl who didn't think she had better prospects or much hope beyond what's expected. And they influenced and changed each other. Yes he may have looked down on her a little in the beginning because he didn't understand her. But that changed, she changed, he changed. It's a dynamic that doesn't get seen as often as it should in the real world. But here was a being with powers, who took the time to get to know a non-powered , average teenager who had robbed him. And unlock understanding and potential. There wasn't tragedy involved in the