Just look!
BvS should've had a little inspiration from Jim Lee
- If your talking in terms of Marketing: The yea sure...
- But if your talking pure onscreen visuals then i would have to disagree becuase BVS was pretty much perfect from visual standpoint, thats not where the film was lacking.
- On topic: That picture is simply awesome!!
I'm taking that.
You wasted no time lol
Woah, Gotham and Metropolis actually have contrast, which helps sell the idea that these heroes are from two very different worlds! Someone actually knew what they were doing and why putting these two together is interesting in the first place!
If only.....
Sweet poster
Woah, Gotham and Metropolis actually have contrast, which helps sell the idea that these heroes are from two very different worlds! Someone actually knew what they were doing and why putting these two together is interesting in the first place!
If only.....
Sometimes I really don't think you even watched the movie lol
That's amazing! O:
@ready_4_madness:Not nearly enough.
@buttersdaman000: If that's what you wanna believe
@ready_4_madness: That's not the difference I'm talking about and you know it XD
@ready_4_madness: It's not about moving the plot forward. Movies aren't all plot. The difference is the contrast in tone between the two cities and how that helps inform the difference between the two heroes. Sure, Gotham is a little worse, but the viewer never gets the sense that Metropolis is having a much better time.
In the books, Gotham is dark, run down, people don't have much hope and those that do are quickly trodden upon by all the villains going nuts all over the place. Meanwhile, Metropolis is supposed to be great. It's shiny, clean, the people there are happy and content with their lives, and very grateful knowing they have a guardian angel watching over them. Sure both cities change from time to time, but that's the default setting, as shown in that picture.
Both heroes are affected by those environments. Because he lives in Gotham, Batman is a guy who had his life taken from him. He's angry, suspicious, vengeful, a loner, hides in the shadows and someone who will work with the law occasionally but has no problems about doing whatever he thinks necessary up to a point. Superman by contrast is trusting, believes in the good of others, works with the law wholeheartedly, smiles and addresses citizens when he's done saving them, willing to work with others for people's benefit, makes sure his actions are public and setting an example.
Compare this to the movie where Gotham is rightfully depressed, muted and downtrodden, terrified of the Bat vigilante that's gone off the deep end and started killing people, while Metropolis is...slightly less depressed, just as muted, and many are terrified of the alien that killed a bunch of people. Great contrast.
@ready_4_madness: So basically "Nuh-uh!" then? In what ways did their depiction of these cities make the movie better? Did it show contrast between the two heroes like the comics do? Did it help viewers learn about the world they live in other than Metropolis looking slightly better?
Woah, Gotham and Metropolis actually have contrast, which helps sell the idea that these heroes are from two very different worlds! Someone actually knew what they were doing and why putting these two together is interesting in the first place!
If only.....
They were different.
And you do realize the only thing separating them is a bay, right? The cities aren't on opposite sides of the country.
@ready_4_madness: Except that Metropolis' hero is inspiring fear too. They basically don't like each other for doing the same thing the other person is doing. Batman doesn't like Superman because he apparently went nuts and took many human lives....as he takes human lives. So Gotham is dangerous is pretty much the only main difference?
@nicksmi56: how was Superman inspiring fear? Just because their was consequences to his action that doesn't mean he was inspiring fear. His action is what inspired Batman to start The Justice League for crying out loud. He saved the human race twice despite all the hate he got.
Batman hated Superman because his only understanding of Superman is what the Media presented. Gotham has more crime, the person who they call a hero inspires fear, their overall design is more old fashioned.
So the people who are afraid he's gonna snap and blow them all up don't count? The whole Black Zero event doesn't count? Pretty sure those people screaming and running from those collapsing buildings in Man of Steel and BvS are afraid. And there's more to inspiring hope than simply saving people. Otherwise every single superhero out there would be a symbol of hope.
And who called Batman a hero in this movie? Pretty sure the people of Gotham don't consider him one. He's more like a dude they let roam because they can't actually deal with him, at least in the time frame of the film.
@nicksmi56: who said the Black Zero event doesn't count? Majority of the people accepted him as a hero after that, they even built a statue after him. It was what happened in Africa what led to people fearing him, which was the work of Lex Luthor. Beforehand he was fine and after he killed Doomsday he was given a funeral with people in tears.
Batman is a hero in Gotham, the policeman at the start was told not to shoot the good guys when he tried to shoot Batman. And when Clark Kent was investigating Batman the woman said only criminals should be afraid of Batman.
Lol the policeman was told not to shoot the good guys after he shot at his fellow officer. Not gonna fall for that one. Then they went to gaping in horror at the Bat Brand. What a hero!
And there's clearly a pretty large split between the populace regardless of the statue. And the problem is we see so little of Superman actually interacting with the populace in this universe and from what we do get, the funeral from the comics doesn't make any sense. Because 90% of populace reactions to his actions in MoS were "AHHHH!! RUN! HELP ME! MY BABY!" Only people that sympathized with him at all were the military, and even they were wary. Then in BvS we get one montage of him saving people and gratitude and the rest of the movie is "Boo! Screw you Superman, you alien prick! We can't trust him! We need to control him!" It gets so bad the guy almost quits. But suddenly at the end, people loved him all along? This sequence of events doesn't add up.
@buttersdaman000: If that's what you wanna believe
So I guess the sex trafficking, graffiti, run-down warehouses, and poor apartment buildings seamlessly blend in with the richer, business centric view of Metropolis we get throughout the whole movie? Lol I guess in order for you to pick up on any differences, Snyder would literally have to film Metropolis as bright and light, then transition to dark because you obviously can't ever pick up on subtleties.
@buttersdaman000: *facepalm* You looked at my entire summary and the only thing you got from it is "Metropolis is rich and Gotham is poor"?
"Christ!"
"I saw him. I never saw him before, I, I didn't know!"
"You almost took my face off! How about you don't shoot at the good guys, huh?"
Cop's clearly pissed and talking about himself.
@buttersdaman000: *facepalm* You looked at my entire summary and the only thing you got from it is "Metropolis is rich and Gotham is poor"?
*facepalm* The only thing I got from it is that you need a lot of exposition to understand anything. You even critique Metropolis as being "slightly less muted" which goes on to show, that yeah, you really do need a color difference to pick up on differences.
Stan Lee is not very good.
Shut up. Ok. : It's not about moving the plot forward. Movies aren't all plot. The difference is the contrast in tone between the two cities and how that helps inform the difference between the two heroes. Sure, Gotham is a little worse, but the viewer never gets the sense that Metropolis is having a much better time.
In the books, Gotham is dark, run down, people don't have much hope and those that do are quickly trodden upon by all the villains going nuts all over the place. Meanwhile, Metropolis is supposed to be great. It's shiny, clean, the people there are happy and content with their lives, and very grateful knowing they have a guardian angel watching over them. Sure both cities change from time to time, but that's the default setting, as shown in that picture.
Both heroes are affected by those environments. Because he lives in Gotham, Batman is a guy who had his life taken from him. He's angry, suspicious, vengeful, a loner, hides in the shadows and someone who will work with the law occasionally but has no problems about doing whatever he thinks necessary up to a point. Superman by contrast is trusting, believes in the good of others, works with the law wholeheartedly, smiles and addresses citizens when he's done saving them, willing to work with others for people's benefit, makes sure his actions are public and setting an example.
Compare this to the movie where Gotham is rightfully depressed, muted and downtrodden, terrified of the Bat vigilante that's gone off the deep end and started killing people, while Metropolis is...slightly less depressed, just as muted, and many are terrified of the alien that killed a bunch of people. Great contrast.
@buttersdaman000: *facepalm* You looked at my entire summary and the only thing you got from it is "Metropolis is rich and Gotham is poor"?
*facepalm* The only thing I got from it is that you need a lot of exposition to understand anything. You even critique Metropolis as being "slightly less muted" which goes on to show, that yeah, you really do need a color difference to pick up on differences.
Because color does actually make a difference in film, believe it or not. And color and exposition are entirely different things.
@buttersdaman000: *facepalm* You looked at my entire summary and the only thing you got from it is "Metropolis is rich and Gotham is poor"?
*facepalm* The only thing I got from it is that you need a lot of exposition to understand anything. You even critique Metropolis as being "slightly less muted" which goes on to show, that yeah, you really do need a color difference to pick up on differences.
Because color does actually make a difference in film, believe it or not.
When did I say it didn't? The problem arises when people can't pay attention then nitpick because their eyes and brain didn't work in tangent to digest the film. Believe it or not, most people noticed a stark difference between Metropolis and Gotham throughout the movie. They may not have been as blatant as "It's always bright and happy in Metropolis" vs "It's always dark and gloomy in Gotham" like you apparently need it to be, but they were there.
@buttersdaman000: *facepalm* You looked at my entire summary and the only thing you got from it is "Metropolis is rich and Gotham is poor"?
*facepalm* The only thing I got from it is that you need a lot of exposition to understand anything. You even critique Metropolis as being "slightly less muted" which goes on to show, that yeah, you really do need a color difference to pick up on differences.
Because color does actually make a difference in film, believe it or not.
When did I say it didn't? The problem arises when people can't pay attention then nitpick because their eyes and brain didn't work in tangent to digest the film. Believe it or not, most people noticed a stark difference between Metropolis and Gotham throughout the movie. They may not have been as blatant as "It's always bright and happy in Metropolis" vs "It's always dark and gloomy in Gotham" like you apparently need it to be, but they were there.
And as I already said, it wasn't nearly enough. You're still missing the key ingredient btw
@buttersdaman000: *facepalm* You looked at my entire summary and the only thing you got from it is "Metropolis is rich and Gotham is poor"?
*facepalm* The only thing I got from it is that you need a lot of exposition to understand anything. You even critique Metropolis as being "slightly less muted" which goes on to show, that yeah, you really do need a color difference to pick up on differences.
Because color does actually make a difference in film, believe it or not.
When did I say it didn't? The problem arises when people can't pay attention then nitpick because their eyes and brain didn't work in tangent to digest the film. Believe it or not, most people noticed a stark difference between Metropolis and Gotham throughout the movie. They may not have been as blatant as "It's always bright and happy in Metropolis" vs "It's always dark and gloomy in Gotham" like you apparently need it to be, but they were there.
And as I already said, it wasn't nearly enough. You're still missing the key ingredient btw
Lol what key ingredient? Happy people vs sad people? You didn't pick up that the only people we interact with in Gotham aren't the happiest? The poor lady, the blind man, the lady leaving the jail with her kid weren't in the best of moods. Then, in metropolis we get Perry cracking jokes, people having nice walks around the Superman statue, people going to work. So what else has to be done to show you the contrast between the cities????
@buttersdaman000: *facepalm* You looked at my entire summary and the only thing you got from it is "Metropolis is rich and Gotham is poor"?
*facepalm* The only thing I got from it is that you need a lot of exposition to understand anything. You even critique Metropolis as being "slightly less muted" which goes on to show, that yeah, you really do need a color difference to pick up on differences.
Because color does actually make a difference in film, believe it or not.
When did I say it didn't? The problem arises when people can't pay attention then nitpick because their eyes and brain didn't work in tangent to digest the film. Believe it or not, most people noticed a stark difference between Metropolis and Gotham throughout the movie. They may not have been as blatant as "It's always bright and happy in Metropolis" vs "It's always dark and gloomy in Gotham" like you apparently need it to be, but they were there.
And as I already said, it wasn't nearly enough. You're still missing the key ingredient btw
Lol what key ingredient? Happy people vs sad people? You didn't pick up that the only people we interact with in Gotham aren't the happiest? The poor lady, the blind man, the lady leaving the jail with her kid weren't in the best of moods. Then, in metropolis we get Perry cracking jokes, people having nice walks around the Superman statue, people going to work. So what else has to be done to show you the contrast between the cities????
TONE.
It's not enough that Metropolis is rich and Gotham is poor. It's not enough that the people we meet in Gotham are poor black stereotypes while Metropolis' people are average.
Metropolis and Gotham should feel different down to their very cores.
It's the combination of all those things, plus more that weren't there, working in tandem to make the audience feel a certain way.
Where's the happiness and content in Metropolis that's supposed to be contrasted total hopelessness and depravity in Gotham? Why does the entire movie have that ugly filter on it that makes everything look so muted? Why doesn't Metropolis' hero act markedly different from the Gotham hero in anything other than methods (and even then not by that much)?
It's not just the look. it's the dialogue:
Bruce Wayne: How many good people in Gotham. How many stayed that way.
Stereotypical old crazy black guy: And you need to get out of here before dark, unless you wanna run into him.
Bruce Wayne: I'm older now than my father ever was....Criminals are like weeds, Alfred.
*Meanwhile, in supposedly better Metropolis, with Superman's supposedly lighter supporting cast*
Perry White (after "It stood for something"): And so could you if it was 1938, but it's not 1938!...No one cares about Clark Kent taking on the Batman.
Superman: Superman was never real.
Superman: Men don't stay good.
Santos' girlfriend: One man decides who lives. Clark Kent: How is that justice? (counting this because the actual killing takes place in a Metropolis prison)
Pa Kent: *story about drowning horses's screams haunting his dreams*
So which city is having a good time, is enjoyable to live in? If you picked "neither", you'd be right.
Plus the fact that besides Gotham being more like a slum and Metropolis being more modern and clean, thanks to that filter, the two don't actually look all that different.
Superman is just as morose and depressed as Batman, maybe even more so.
The only one in this movie who seems to be having a good time is, ironically, Lex Luthor.
So where's the contrast?
You're arguing how things should FEEL against the FACTS i'm providing. And for the record, I agree that the cities should FEEL different, but i'm not going to ignore objective FACTS because of my FEELINGS. Like it or not, there was clear and evident contrast in the way the cities were portrayed. Basically, when it comes down to it, you're just pissed Superman wasn't happy in the film and you're letting it cloud your judgement....just another case of a casual fan pigeonholing the character into strict expressions of FEELINGS.
Anyways, i've made my point clear as have you. I agree that the FEEL of the cities were similar, but that is a consequence of the TONE of the film and not the portrayal of the cities. I don't agree that the movie didn't do enough to show the differences.
And if you really still can't see the contrast after I've pointed out multiple examples, then that's on you.
@buttersdaman000:So thinking about how a story should feel automatically makes me a 'casual fan?"
Whatever you wanna tell yourself.
If you don't see the value in how a product makes the consumer feel, you don't know much about how movies, or stories in general, work.
@buttersdaman000:So thinking about how a story should feel automatically makes me a 'casual fan?"
Whatever you wanna tell yourself.
If you don't see the value in how a product makes the consumer feel, you don't know much about how movies, or stories in general, work.
You're a casual fan of Superman because you only know him as far as Smallville (which is weird because it's the most depressed, jerkish version of the character ever) or the DCEU not because you ignore the facts in a movie in favor of your feelings.
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