Batman V Superman: Dawn of Disappointment

Kinda Spoilerish- Read at your own risk

As you can see by the title, you can see where this review is going. I wanted to love it guys.... heck I wanted to at least like it. And for the brief 2 hours after watching it I was on Cloud 9. But like the Wayne Corp satellite, I came crashing down. This movie is- you know what? Let me clear something up

I AM ONE OF YOU!

Well, I am part of the 50% that liked Man of Steel. It's in my top 3 for Christ sake, and I think like anyone with a good sense of story knew where the story was gonna go in the sequel (oh how wrong we were). I am not some stuffy critic and I don't have a Marvel bias. So while everyone is entitled to their own view on how they see this movie, at least notice that I wasn't going into this movie trying to gut it. Now that that's out of the way, I'm going to be addressing the bad first and then the good.

The Bad

The Serious Stuff- I want to say something about this complaint I've seen in most reviews.... it's hogwash. It's a stupid complaint that holds absolutely no weight. THe movie needed to be serious and it could have been this epic thought provoking movie if it had pulled it off.... but it didn't. Because this movie felt like a series of scenes from good what could have been 2 or 3 good movies, compiled into one movie where they don't flow well together.

Lex Luthor- This wasn't Lex Luthor, not at all. He was Riddler, but instead of spouting off riddles, he spouts off random quotes that sorta fit the situation to try and sound menacing. Most of the things you are going to see on this list are due to the fact that they spend close to no time on this movie developing. Lex was no exception. Heck, the prequel comic did a better job of setting him up, than the entire movie. This was not Mark Zuckerburg 2.0 (I flipping wish), this was Zuckerburg on LSD. There are somethings that Lex does in this movie, that would totally have worked if he had taken an approach more akin to how the comic Lex is.

The misuse of minor characters- Either use them or don't. If you saw all the teasers, you saw pretty much everything with either Martha Kent or Perry Black. Both of them had some of my favorite moments in MoS, but here they seem to serve no purpose. Heck, it feels like what happened to Martha at the end could have been done with Lois, but I guess they didn't want to repeat it with her, so they used Martha.

TRIM THE FAT OR TRIM THE BAT- I'm obviously going to sound biased and stuff, but after my heart being more broken than Batman's back, I flipping deserve to speak my mind. I honestly think that most, of the Batman stuff needed to be cut down and pretty much everything else needed to be explored. It's a messed up thing when Bruce and Alfred have more screen time, than Lois and Clark. Who needs development of their relationship or how they are dealing with the backlash against Clark? SCREW IT! GIVE US MORE SASSY BUTLER QUOTES! It couldn't be more clear that Snyder wanted to make a Batman movie, because he gave him a ton of screen time, and developed his hatred of Superman, but no one else (or atleast not to the same degree). Was Batfleck good? Sure, but his part of the story is so straight forward. It felt stretched out, while the Superman stuff was short and .... well not to the point, just short.

How the titular fight ended- It didn't end the way any of us predicted or had hoped. It ended on a major fricken canon coincidence being revealed. And this makes me think..."Didn't you know this already Bruce?"

MOS FANS,NOTHING THAT WE WANTED TO SEE HAPPEN, HAPPENED!- Well not entirely. Here's a list

1. Clark and Lois's relationship- Lex and Zod's dead body had more chemistry. And hear me out, this isn't a diss on them not working, but they are given close to no screen time to show us where they stand. Like, out of the nowhere she starts questioning their relationship, and then after some possible boom boom, it's sorta solved.
2. Clark/Superman act- IT's just sorta accepted and it's never really addressed.
3. The world and how it feels about Superman- There are moments where we get to see what they are saying about him, but we don't really get to see how it affects Superman or how he deals with it.
4. Bromance Begins- We don't really get to see a proper start to their bromance, cus as I said before, the way the fight ends wasn't the way I wanted to end.

Goyer probably had a better script- This isn't really a valid complaint, but I get the feeling that Goyer had something better written. YOu blew it Terrio. All that hype and boasting, might as well melt his award.

The Good

JL Easter Eggs- Lazily put in there, but still frickin cool.

The Fights- IMO, worth the Price of Admission alone and puts the Marvel stuff to shame. I don't care if you fire Snyder, but get him to direct the JL fight scenes.

The Beginning and the Ending- The reenactment of the Metropolis fight from Bruce's perceptive and the desert scene with Lois was great. And the entire Ending Fights.

The Dream stuff- Super eerie and super weird.

Some of the Stuff Lex does- The way he manipulates the situation to create the conflict, is fantastic. Especially the way he frames Superman for stuff.

The Ending- I know I already said this... but seriously guys.... that ending. I called it a long time ago, and I respect them for doing it. I just wish it was in a better movie with better lead up to it.

3 Years of Hype and One Movie Later

This Night has been a roller coaster ride. I came out glowing and loving it, a few hours later I hated it and was completely heart broken, and now after writing all this.... I can't help but remember the movie fondly. I'm teeter tottering between liking it and disliking it. In the end guys, it's an experience you must take on your own. Even after all this ranting.... I'm still gonna go see it again and probably buy the blu ray. In the end, I could spend an hour, rewriting and rearranging this movie to make it better, but I still kind of enjoyed it. I bleed DC.

Rating- Too fresh to say, somewhere between 4 and a 7.

The movie was a disaster. Such a shame.

Also, the dream wasn't a dream but a vision of a possible future. At least, that's what I got given who appeared after and how...

@saintwildcard:

I may be different but I am one of those who who liked BVS more than MOS. I went with really low expectations and came out pleasantly surprised. I will give it between 7.5 to 8.

I laughed at the title more than I should have LMAO.

@the_stegman@buttersdaman000@soldierofel@sog7dc@k4tzm4n

Superman had 143 minutes of character development in MoS , Batman was totally new to this Universe. It made sense to develop him more. I feel like being such a die hard MoS fan (and Supes fan I assume) unnecessarily ruined this film for you. I enjoyed it a lot.

Dam

It was miles better then Man of Steel, IMO.

The Serious Stuff- I want to say something about this complaint I've seen in most reviews.... it's hogwash. It's a stupid complaint that holds absolutely no weight. THe movie needed to be serious and it could have been this epic thought provoking movie if it had pulled it off.... but it didn't. Because this movie felt like a series of scenes from good what could have been 2 or 3 good movies, compiled into one movie where they don't flow well together.

You can't blame the tone of the movie for it's occasionally bad writing. Yes, the movie was disjointed in parts, but that has nothing to do with the tone of the movie. Especially since the tone of the movie actually helps discuss thought provoking themes. For example, if Superman belongs in this world. Reflecting on the movie, the dark was fitting as it made for the largest pay off by the end of the movie. Think about it, the final moments of the movie are the most inspiring from the entire film.

Superman sacrifices himself and the world now takes kindly to Superman and honours him in a funeral. You wanted Superman to complete his journey from farm boy to hero? The transformation is complete.

Now Superman is no longer that alien that the world is questioning his existence. He sacrificed himself and the world loves Superman now. In your face, people who say that Superman refuses to inspire.

Lex Luthor- This wasn't Lex Luthor, not at all. He was Riddler, but instead of spouting off riddles, he spouts off random quotes that sorta fit the situation to try and sound menacing. Most of the things you are going to see on this list are due to the fact that they spend close to no time on this movie developing. Lex was no exception. Heck, the prequel comic did a better job of setting him up, than the entire movie. This was not Mark Zuckerburg 2.0 (I flipping wish), this was Zuckerburg on LSD. There are somethings that Lex does in this movie, that would totally have worked if he had taken an approach more akin to how the comic Lex is.

I don't read much comics, therefore this was my least complaint about the character. My gripes with the character is his absolute lack of proper motivation. But I still enjoyed his character. As you mentioned, I liked that he manipulated the situation and when he was raining Superman with Martha's photos. I loved watching his character.

The misuse of minor characters- Either use them or don't. If you saw all the teasers, you saw pretty much everything with either Martha Kent or Perry Black. Both of them had some of my favorite moments in MoS, but here they seem to serve no purpose. Heck, it feels like what happened to Martha at the end could have been done with Lois, but I guess they didn't want to repeat it with her, so they used Martha.

Most of your complaints with the movie at this point revolve around it not being exclusively a Superman movie. Yeah, it isn't just a Superman movie. This is also a Batman movie at the expense of Superman. There are much more characters in this film in comparison to Man of Steel.

Except they didn't really do that much with Batman. His hatred for Superman was the only thing they really dived into (everything else was banter and action). And looking at it from an objective stand point, the storylines that we were promised and they tried to touch here, were never explored fully. It's like they wanted to have a ton of Bruce/Alfred banter, but all Superman scenes had to be short and to the point.

@saintwildcard: ouch.

When I was telling you that MoS was a very good movie, just not a superman movie, you usual answer was: "This is just the start of his journey. It will make more sense after the next movie."

So...

Do you this BvS his tarnishing somewhat MoS legacy?

I love BvS

IMO, and I'm not Saint_Wildcard, this movie completed his journey. Superman is now the symbol of hope.

Odd. I don't remember an excessive amount of Bruce and Alfred banter in the movie.

@saintwildcard I remember Alfred joking about Bruce's drinking, that he'll never marry and that he's getting old.

But those were three sentences, Bruce was too obsessed with Supes to have back and forth's that would take up screen time. i don't think he even responded.

I've read a lot of old light hearted Superman and new Justice League but very little of his post 80's individual stuff which I assume added weight to Lois, Perry etc. So I had very little invested in any of those scenes, I actually have no idea how they were meant to act.

Edit:

As I've only read old (70's and before) fun Superman I don't really know how current live action versions of him should act either. He's so serious in new Justice League stuff I thought that's basically his thing.

@saint_samantha: Hi, I don't really know you, but just as I quick introduction, I read my first superman in the 70s. It was in French, but still, I really like the character. So when you are telling me that after MoS (that was a terrible introduction for me, and please let not repeat/continue this debate here), BvS is enough to complete his journey, it kind of demonstrate that we didn't have the same expectations.

A story can not be complete when you have a (bad?) introduction and a quick ending.

You need the real thing in between, The journey itself. If not, it is just using the name for selling tickets and that's it. We never had a chance to see a real superman movie, or even better, a real trilogy-like development, before this BvS that would have been the ending of this interpretation of Superman.

Yeah this of all things I was not expecting at all. It's finally happened, hell has frozen over.

Have you watched the movie yet? What did you think? I'd love to see a review from you.

My problem wasn't the tone, but the way the scenes were handled and therefore couldn't back up the tone. I loved the tone they wanted to have, I was actually talking about how critics label that a complaint, and I disagree with them.

That was good, but the step to get there were rushed, while it feels like the one plot line for Bruce, was developed and stretched out longer. The movie really only focused on telling us why he hated Superman and the action, but him as a character wasn't really developed.

I don't read much comics, therefore this was my least complaint about the character. My gripes with the character is his absolute lack of proper motivation. But I still enjoyed his character. As you mentioned, I liked that he manipulated the situation and when he was raining Superman with Martha's photos. I loved watching his character.

All great things, but the way he delivered them was so over the top. I can take changes to the character if enjoyable, but it was just so annoying. Especially how Clark fell to his knees as he threw them at him.

Most of your complaints with the movie at this point revolve around it not being exclusively a Superman movie. Yeah, it isn't just a Superman movie. This is also a Batman movie at the expense of Superman. There are much more characters in this film in comparison to Man of Steel.

Right, and the other characters aren't really explored as much. They are in and out with the Superman stuff, which are major parts to the story since it revolves around his actions in MoS. Many reviewers are saying that they are trying to apologize for MoS and trying to explain stuff. I wish that was the case.

Noo but I did sort of expose myself to spoilers so this time, unlike with MOS, I already know what's going to happen. I'm deliberating on whether I want to spend money to see a film I know I won't like.

Me and you've definitely got different expectations. I'm a film fan, you're a Superman fan. I mean, I enjoy Superhero movies, but I watch movies more then I read comics.

You don't need to worry about me getting into a huge discussion defending Man of Steel. That was an okay film.

@saint_samantha

@saintwildcard

The fact there's a lot of characters in this this is totally over blown.

Doomsday is a mindless killing machine and required almost no time. Flash, Aqua Man, Cyborg were very smartly condensed to two minutes (combined.)

WW had 5 minutes or so of exclusive time.

The way I saw it Alfred / Lois / Perry / Martha / Bruce's employee were simply vehicles to propel the Supes VS Bats angle and should have been treated that way. There is very limited time in a movie (compared to ongoing comics.)

Tell it like it is bro! I give it between a 5 and a 6 out of 10.

Is this the first Zack Snyder film that's exposed you to weak storytelling? I don't expect much from a storytelling front from the guy at this point. And to be fair, Batman's character wasn't explored as much as it could've, but it's not as if the characterisation is non-existent.

I know the film doesn't spell it out for you, but this is a weary Batman. He is paranoid. And is willing to use lethal force to rid of his enemies. To be honest, though, I didn't see Batman shooting people. I see people saying he was shooting "left and right" when all I remember is him using a guy's machine gun in an attempt to shoot the rest of the guys when he was rescuing Martha. But most people are saying he killed people, so I'll just assume so.

Hell, he almost killed Superman. But when he finds out that Superman's mother is at risk, Bruce relates to that, putting his differences aside to save Martha. It was a humane, touching scene that had me teary eyed. They didn't put their differences aside to fight a huge threat like most people expected. Most of us assumed they would "team up to fight Doomsday", when Bruce actually put his differences aside to save Martha. Very touching, inspiring.

They developed his character through Superman.

EDIT: but seriously. When the hell was Batman shooting people left and right? Did we watch the same movie?

I have nothing against the concept. But the execution was way too rushed.

And let's you right, let's forget superman the comics character and just speak about BvS for itself, was it a good movie or not?

Well I don't know how why we should be able to understand all the refs, dream sequences and other eastern eggs that might be understandable for the hard core fans, but should leave the GA quite stunned.

In other you can not defend BvS for his lack of development of superman character because it's just a movie, and then defend the same film for his lack of explanation when introducing the JL that one can get only if one also follows the DC Universe.

Do you see my point, the constitutive flaw of BvS?

Neither the moviegoer nor the comic fan will be satisfied.

@saint_samantha

They didn't try and hide the fact people died when he fired gatling guns and missiles with his car and plane.

I hope they don't treat us like idiots and say Batman absolutely hasn't killed anyone. He blasted apart various vehicles.

you're expectations are too high mate. it's not perfect and never was going to be............it was meant to be doorway to let the public know a cinematic dc universe exists.

and snyder doesn't hate superman and love batman. the whole movie was very much about cav-el and him trying to find his place after the events of MoS which the public blames him for and it just happens so he runs into batfleck who is brave enough to step up against him

When did he fire bullets at criminals, though? All I remember was him firing bullets in the climax against Doomsday. Or maybe I was too hyped to realise that he did it in another scene.

I was satisfied. It isn't a masterpiece, but it was a blast of entertainment. It isn't the flashy, 'fun' entertainment we are accustomed to, but it was my kind of entertainment: gritty, thought provoking, badass.

Batman v. Superman had a ton of plot holes, but as a standalone movie - the quality of the movie as a film, I still place it heads and shoulders above most other superhero movies. This movie actually made me think: I'm thinking about Batman v. Superman. Things stuck with me.

The same can't be said about other superhero movies. Don't get me wrong, I love the MCU and X-Men, but Batman v. Superman was transcendent.

^ Oh brother..

@saint_samantha: Ok. As stated before we didn't have the same expectations.

Wow, I mean seriously, wow, I'm not even being funny with you Saint. It's a shame that you were disappointed. Saying I told you so is stupid but we had to expect something like this. It was visible from the trailers, the interviews and hell they practically bumped Superman down to a supporting character. I've just got one question for you, @saintwildcard, did Supes lose the fight?

Also is your title a reference to Lvenger's MOS review? Because that would be kinda funny.

@soldierofel said:

Wow, I mean seriously, wow, I'm not even being funny with you Saint. It's a shame that you were disappointed. Saying I told you so is stupid but we had to expect something like this. It was visible from the trailers, the interviews and hell they practically bumped Superman down to a supporting character. I've just got one question for you, @saintwildcard, did Supes lose the fight?

Also is your title a reference to Lvenger's MOS review? Because that would be kinda funny.

lol this review and Lvenger's review of Man of Steel are companions to each other.

I know I'm not Saint_Wildcard, but Superman lost the fight.

Same my brother had to give my ticket to one of his friends. Might watch it immediately after the weekend but I'm completely burnt out by all the negativity and spoilers.

WTF?? Yall got me scarred...not gonna be able to see this thing till Sunday Night though

@lukehero: Don't worry i was at the midnight launch and it was great everyone is just freaking out cos it wasn't the best comicbook movie yet i'd say it was easily better than age of ultron and man of steel eventhough i believe it was better than deadpool ik no one else is gonna think that.

@lukehero: dude don't read the gen discussions. read the battle forums. batfleck is amazing

@masterkungfu: @chazz85: Thanks.

Damn...even Saint disliked it lol

Given that, I think I might settle on this being worse than MoS but still not as bad as the critics say which is disappointing, but hey, even Star Wars came back from AotC lol

@saint_samantha: Knew it. I said it from the beginning but I thought it would've been slightly even sided but that's okay. I'm just gonna go cry myself to sleep now.

Again I liked MoS, but the fact that Batman uses guns to murder people was what made me think he was more "Crazy Steve"(Look up Linkara for that reference) than actually Batman. The ending was awful and the entire movie was poorly written. I also got to be honest by saying the fight scenes weren't even that great, just flashy and over the top, but also kinda cartoony, didn't really like it here. All in all I hope WB seriously reconsiders having Snyder headline the DCU after this travesty of film making.

I'm going to enjoy this movie more than most of ya'll. I knew it would be trash from the get go and I only wanted to see it for one reason:

The Fights- IMO, worth the Price of Admission alone and puts the Marvel stuff to shame. I don't care if you fire Snyder, but get him to direct the JL fight scenes.

Just go in with the same mindset that you would a Micheal Bay movie.

The Beginning and the Ending- The reenactment of the Metropolis fight from Bruce's perceptive and the desert scene with Lois was great. And the entire Ending Fights.

TRIM THE FAT OR TRIM THE BAT- I'm obviously going to sound biased and stuff, but after my heart being more broken than Batman's back, I flipping deserve to speak my mind. I honestly think that most, of the Batman stuff needed to be cut down and pretty much everything else needed to be explored. It's a messed up thing when Bruce and Alfred have more screen time, than Lois and Clark. Who needs development of their relationship or how they are dealing with the backlash against Clark? SCREW IT! GIVE US MORE SASSY BUTLER QUOTES! It couldn't be more clear that Snyder wanted to make a Batman movie, because he gave him a ton of screen time, and developed his hatred of Superman, but no one else (or atleast not to the same degree). Was Batfleck good? Sure, but his part of the story is so straight forward. It felt stretched out, while the Superman stuff was short and .... well not to the point, just short.

Good, good...

Wow...you just killed every ounce of hope I had, Saint.

I haven't seen it yet but I'm going tonight.

I'll say this for anyone who has seen it: one of my friends said to me that Lex, in this movie, is like a stupid, immature version of the Laughing Man from Ghost in The Shell...is that truly what this film is?

@saint_samantha: Yeah, I knew that DC would go that way. But, I hope it doesn't define their friendship.

@buttersdaman000: It's something everyone must go find out for themselves. I'm still on a roller coaster

@sog7dc:IDK, I'm just teetering at this point. I mean... I think at the end of the day I enjoyed it, but I'm just let down in a lot of ways. Just go in with low expectations is my advice

I wanted Lex to be the Loki of this universe (as in, he appears in multiple movies and gets developed)... I don't want that anymore.

@soldierofel:One of the problems you had was that Clark was gonna have less screentime than Batman. I'm sure they had the same amount and I actually think that the Superman characters all added up to more screen time than Batman. It just feels like they sped up through his stuff.

Now that's a review I wanted to read. I know how you feel, at first I really liked, but when I started thinking about it.......

But I still enjoyed it more than I should.

But am I the only one that think the Doomsday fight was weird?

How'd it define their friendship though?

@saint_samantha: Well I haven't seen it yet but I don't want them to always reference the fight. I want their friendship to be like it is in Superman/Batman by Jeph Loeb where they always refer to each other as brothers. I think this should be the only fight, in my own opinion.

@saintwildcard: Well, I was more worried about the fight but I guessed as soon as Batman was introduced, Superman's time would be cut down. It's a problem but I understand why it would be done. My other problem is that Cavil is incredibly charismatic, as seen in The Man from Uncle and his interviews, but it seems like he wasn't given a chance again. Multiple reviews have mentioned that Superman is a non factor and one reviewer even called him a "sociopathic deity". This annoys me because we all expected Superman to grow as character but it seems like the chance was missed. I still haven't seen it, so I'll judge for myself.

People acts like if Zack Snyder fight scenes were directed by Jackie Chan or The Raid guys.

The guy is a superior Len Wiseman.

@deathpoolthet1000 Your right in the fact he didn't directly hit a human. (He may have but it wasn't obvious.)

He fired hundreds of huge rounds into vehicles and multiple missiles, those vehicles either exploded or were torn apart by the combination of the bullets and high speed crash.

I movie/comic book theory this doesn't necessarily mean they die , but there's normally some attempt to show they survived , these explosions and crashes (after being ripped apart by bullets) were done in a way that I can't see how any human could possibly survive.

I'm not saying they have to admit Batman has killed people , they can keep it vague.

Kid, you should reply to another user, not me.

@saint_samantha