Barry Allen vs Wally West, past and present rethought.

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FlashForce

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#1  Edited By FlashForce

Is Wally West really faster than Barry Allen?

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There's a lot to read, but it explores a variety of feats and abilities in depth. Please state and why if you state your opinion in the comments.

Arguably, Wally does have the greatest feats out of the two speedsters, most notably when he ran so fast he beat instantaneous teleportation. This also seems to be the main reason why a lot of people believe that Wally is faster than Barry, as he has this feat and Barry does not. Compared with Barry's fastest feat of destroying the anti-matter cannon, there is a clear difference in the two speedsters maximum speeds. Barry 'died' and entered the speedforce after his fastest, whereas Wally remained perfectly fine.

However, if you break down these two feats, it's a lot easier to understand. At these times, (Pre-New 52), the speedforce worked in the way that a speedster could run as fast as the equivalent kinetic energy in the universe. This is seen when Wally contacted Earth and told everyone to start running and moving before his race. This meant his abilities had more fuel, as there was considerably more kinetic energy in the universe, which in turn gave Wally a massive increase in speed, so much so that he could beat instant teleportation. In terms of Barry's maximum feat, he ran faster than the speedforce would allow, meaning he was sucked into the speedforce. He didn't have the luxury of contacting the Justice League and the entire population of Earth to start moving, which is also why Wally and Barry had different endings after their maximum feats. Wally was fine, (he didn't exceed the speed forces limits at the time,) however, Barry did, and thus disappeared. Due to the similarities of the events in terms of speedforce rules, it can be concluded that Barry could also run at that velocity, if he had the entirety of Earth moving to aid him as well. What not many focus on is, Barry ran of his own power after he exceeded the speedforces maximum allowed velocity, (evidence is he disappeared,) whereas Wally remained within the speedforces maximum allowed velocity.

A second point people discuss is the usage of the Infinite Mass Punch (IMP). It is repeatedly stated that Wally must be the faster Flash because he used the IMP first. However, Barry told Wally a series of 'Flash Facts,' as Wally referred to them himself, that enabled Wally to use the IMP. The only thing Wally had to do, was run at the correct velocity. Wally being the first out of himself and Barry to use the IMP does not stand for much when you consider what is required. The main requirement, is running at just below the speed of light to exact a punch that has the mass of a white dwarf star. In Barry's maximum feat, he ran ten times the speed of light to destroy the anti-matter cannon, meaning with the knowledge he clearly possessed and passed onto Wally, and his speed being shown to exceed the speed of light, it stands to reason that Barry could perform the IMP, however he chose not too, whereas Wally did. Both Flashes had the capability and knowledge to perform the IMP, so this point is well balanced.

Thirdly, the point of Wally outrunning the gravitational pull of a black hole becomes void after the two points we have already discussed. Light cannot escape a black holes pull however, Barry and Wally can both run faster than the speed of light meaning, both could escape that pull with relative ease. Similar to this, there is the case where Wally outran the speedforce, whereas Barry could not without his help. This is an easily countered point. A flash gets their energy from the speedforce, meaning if the speedforce doesn't want them to leave, they cannot physically do it on their own. Wally was able to help Barry out of the speedforce because unlike Wally, Barry was being trapped there by the speedforce itself. Wally has been able to enter and exit the speedforce on his own, but never has the speedforce tried to keep such a firm grasp on him as it has on Barry. Linked to this, people claim that Wally could stomp Barry as Wally can steal speed and momentum of people and objects. But, it can be overlooked that Barry is the generator of the speedforce, not only granting himself the possibility to run at any speed he wants, (as he can just generate more when he wants to go faster) but part of being the generator means the moment he moves, even something like blinking, will mean he can run again as superspeed as that movement will generate the speedforce. Consequently, it is noted that Barry is immune to having his speed stolen, as a small movement will restore his speed and generate the speedforce.

Fourth, Wally ran to the end of time and outran death in a short space of time. However, as seen when Barry was seen after Crisis of Infinite Earths in the speedforce, he was running away from Black Racer, which is a stronger and faster embodiment of the Black Flash, (the Flash Wally outran to the end of time to kill), meaning Barry can outrun death as well and for a longer period of time, (as Barry was in the speedforce for decades) and due to time travel being a relatively fast process, Wally would only have to outrun Black Flash for a fraction of the time Barry was, also outlining Barry's incredible endurance and stamina.

Finally, there is always the case that Wally has abilities Barry does not and when Barry was brought back, Wally was teaching him all kinds of things. Yet after Barry's rebirth, he stated that when he runs there is always a "light on the horizon," referencing that he is skirting on the very edge of the speedforce when he runs. This means that he essentially has the capacity to learn anything the speedforce has to offer, and possibly already knew about the techniques Wally was teaching him. While not explicitly stated that running on the edge of the speedforce results in this, it can be heavily backed up by Barry's constant holding back, meaning he has more techniques than he's shared with enemies and allies alike.

Now post- New 52, the speedforce works in an entirely different way. It is now the driving force that propels the universe forward or backward when properly harnessed. Even though Wally has been saved and is now pack post-52, that does not necessarily mean he has been re-birthed as the fastest speedster. If the speedforce truly does propel the universe forwards when properly harnessed, that would mean Barry has mastered the speedforce and has the capability to properly harness it. As seen when he fought Professor Zoom, who was slowing down the time of others and everything around him (the universe), Barry stated that he was "done holding back" and his lightning changed from yellow to white. It was in this time that Barry sped up his own time and everything Professor Zoom has slowed, (the universe), meaning Barry has the capacity to propel the universe forwards as well as speed up his own time, resulting in him harnessing the speedforce properly. Wally does not have this ability, as he has spent far too long within the speedforce, meaning unless shown, it can't be theorised Wally has this new ability that Barry also has.

On top of this, in the New 52 it is shown that Barry also has a high degree of control and mastery over the speedforce, something never approached before in the silver age of comics. People claim Wally West has mastered the speedforce (which is why he has so many more abilities), but during his fight with Gorilla Grodd inside the speedforce itself, Barry clearly controls Gorilla Grodd and stomps him with ease when he begins controlling the speedforce, essentially making it his own realm to manipulate.

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During New-52 however, future Wally and future Barry engage in combat, with Future Wally destroying Barry with relative ease. A lot of people have claimed this shows that Wally will eventually surpass Barry but, this isn't the case. Based on the lightning colour, Wally was running using a perfectly healthy speedforce, whereas future Barry was using a speedforce that was dying, and needed to be fixed, so Wally would naturally be able to move far faster than future Barry. But, future Barry is explicitly stated to have been trained in martial arts and hand to hand combat by experts such as Batman, Deathstroke and more, resulting in his hand to hand now surpassing future Wally's and based on his ability to speed up his own time (with a healthy speedforce) Barry would have beaten Wally in terms of speed and martial arts finesse if they had both fought using healthy speedforce sources.

Finally, when fighting Daniel West, the New 52 Reverse Flash, Barry absorbed not only Daniel's speed, but his entire ability set as well, as seen when Barry's costume momentarily changed and became slightly metallic like Daniel's was as well as when Barry turned back time relative to himself just like Daniel was doing. This implies that Barry can not only steal speed like Wally could, but can absorb the speedforce of other beings as well, including their abilities.

In terms of feats, Wally has definitely reached the highest velocity. But in terms of actual capability and AVERAGE speed, (as Wally did not move faster than teleportation all the time, it was a one time thing) and based on the definition of both the Pre-52 and New-52 speedforce, Barry has demonstrated that he can channel it properly, has a stronger grasp of it and is also the stronger speedster between the two. In Pre-52, he was the speedforce generator. And post-52, he has shown he can masterfully use the speedforce (against Grodd) and can also propel the world to move forwards, (and thus humiliated Professor Zoom) as well as absorb the very speedforce of beings. Meaning he could do everything Wally previously could- and more. In New 52 Barry would undoubtedly defeat Wally, as a speedster cannot fight another speedster who can speed up his own time and thus move at speeds unrestricted by both velocity and time. However the pre-52, with this fully laid out knowledge, would be up for a much better debate.

What do you guys think and why?

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stormshadow_x

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Nice write up

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LDM

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#3  Edited By LDM
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FlashForce

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FlakeKing

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@flashforce: Nice post, so in other words, Flash is the GOAT and Barry>>Wally....

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deactivated-5b84aca03eae8

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Wally is still my favorite Flash regardless of whether he's faster or not.

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Tomkatie

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