Grayson is gonna be a hit and Nightwing as Dick will die

I just know that this is gonna happen. The creative team in Grayson is good and the new direction for Dick is good and will give him his own corner of the world where he wont be in batman's shadow.

In return for that good stuff, no more Nightwing the superhero. No more Nightwing leading the titans or JL.

I wish that the new creative team could have kept Nightwing as Dick's code namn. Spy do use code name right atleast that way he wouldn't die horrible......sorry this is so hard for me im a die hard nightwing fan:(

No one escapes Bruce's shadow.

Doubt it.

@youknowwhattodo: I need a Slothstronaut in my life.

Doubtful. Not many people seem to be that interested in it. Not enough to kill Nightwing. I believe Nightwing will come back eventually.

This is the same topic as your RIP Nightwing thread. You don't have to keep starting new topics we get it you don't like the idea of Grayson. The main thing about Dick Grayson as a character is he is always evolving. He has been a lot of things in his 74 years. Robin, Batman, Nightwing, and now Just Dick Grayson. Give this book a chance. If you are married to a character JUST having one code name Dick Grayson is not the character for you. All that aside I do think he will be Nightwing again at some point.

Isn't being in Batmans Shadow at least part of the appeal?

ddPerhaps you should just be a die hard Dick Grayson fan? You are correct though, the creative team is pretty good and this is worth being excited about. My guess is that if Grayson is very successful, Dick will still eventually begin using the codename Nightwing while doing his superspy thing. If the book isn't particularly successful, we'll have Nightwing back in a year or two.

Honestly I personally see this as no different than when Dick became Batman or Bucky became Captain America. (I think Donna Troy was also Wonder Woman for a bit.) No one believed those "graduations" or changes were going to stick, and I don't think anyone see's this as any different.

@nathaniel_christopher: People also didn't like those, and none of those lasted. And this is actually very different than someone taking on the mantle of someone else, this is changing dick completely and trying to make him into a new character.

I feel like change is sort of Dick's thing. He's one of a few DC characters that have been allowed to grow as a character and not be so static. I think fans of Dick should embrace this change in his life.

I'm just very happy he's not dead. DC has toyed around with the idea of killing him off a couple times, and I'm relieved that hasn't happened. Dick is one of my very favorite characters, regardless of which mask he wears.

I don't think this is gonna go over well, I think he'll end up getting killed off again.

Well of course people didn't like those, every change has haters. Also wasn't saying it's the same type of change, simply saying it's a character taking on a new role.

As I said though, I doubt this is going to last, and no one really seems to think it's going to last.

Plenty of people liked them, at least Dick as Batman. That was, as far as I recall, a wildly well received, if only temporary, move. Also, youre assuming quite a hefty amount when you say that this is changing Dick into a completely different character. Was Dick changed into a completely different character when he moved to Bludhaven? And the again when he moved to New York? And then again when he put on the cape and cowl? So far, we have very little, if any, details that would lead us to believe Dick is going to suddenly become another character entirely. Sure seems like he will, once again, be the same character in a different situation.

@dropkickjake: Really? Batman was minor change, and changed him into the most popular character in DC. He was also still a vigilante. Not a big change. This is different. The city he's going to isn't the problem. He's not a spy. Its like making batman a spy or superman a spy. Its simply not who they are. And he uses guns now.

I too think Grayson will be good

dick will always be nightwing for me tho

He may not return to being Nightwing in the N52 but I kind of doubt it. Even if he does, we can be assured that he will not be separated from the Bat-Family. DC would lose too many potential opportunities to make that move.

Fairly confident that he will return to costumed life (even though DC could move DIck to Argus or something like that).

@jayc1324: You say he isn't a spy, but if Dick Grayson, second to Batman in human heroes, who is able to sneak and disappear without any problems. Able to sneak into a building, with no open able windows, without anyone noticing in broad daylight, then I don't think anyone can be a spy. Dick Grayson can be whatever you need him to be. Oh yeah, since he uses guns now, he is going to be the punisher and wolverine and just kill everyone now. Because with him wielding a gun, which is just like his time during his Cop days where they were issued a gun to use during missions, he is going to use it ALL the time and KILL everyone. Interviews after interviews, Tom King and Tim Seeley have stated that the gun thing is going to be an internal struggle in Grayson, but you obviously never read them, seeing as though you think because him having a gun, while undercover to convince them that he is one of them, he is going to use it like a Wing Ding.

It's obvious from Nightwing's last issue that this will be temporary, Dick will be acting as a double agent, that type of arrangement is never long lasting.

@nightwingism: None of that makes dick a spy. And having a gun as a cop is different. Completely different. That wasn't an internal struggle for him. Its simple, dick is no spy. Of course anyone can write him to be anything but its not who the character is.

Being able to sneak around and disappear doesn't make some a spy, anymore than it makes that person a ninja dude. It gives him a tool for the job, nothing more.

Nightwing will definitely come back, but I, for one, will enjoy the spy-thriller interlude before it does so.

"Who am I? My name is Dick Grayson. I'm who you need me to be."

@jayc1324: There is nothing in Grayson so far to suggest that Dick Grayson is indeed going to be a completely different character, while he is going through some changes, it does seem as though the writers (from their interviews) are trying to keep the core of Dick Grayson intact. I don't quite follow as to why Dick Grayson CAN'T become a spy, Dick is a character who is motivated by trying to help other people and fight injustice and while the primary method of accomplishing these goals was by being a masked vigilante (whether it is Robin or Nightwing or Batman) sometimes he does it without a mask like when he was a cop in Bludhaven, there's nothing about being a spy for a few years that suggests that he'll no longer be able to fight injustice and help others. The idea behind him joining Spyral is that he's going undercover to help save other superheroes from having their identities uncovered by an unsavory organization.

Another thing, people really need to stop beating the dead horse, or in this case the dead horse fetus of Dick Grayson carrying a gun. This is in my eyes one of the most overblown topics I've heard this year regarding DC. Tim Seeley and Mikel Janin have hinted on twitter that there might be non-lethal bullets and that the way he uses a gun is going to be different than how we would use a gun, also in interviews Tim Seeley has said that the "gun" is going to be one of the main conflicts that Dick Grayson is going to have to deal with. We don't know what is going to happen with Dick Grayson and guns, but that doesn't mean that we have to do what a lot of people do when faced with an unanswerable question and that is assume the worst.

My point is that a character and the situation that character is in are two entirely different things. Thus far, based on the information we have, Dick is infiltrating a spy agency to figure out their nefarious plans. He's even doing it at Batman's request. Infiltrating a spy agency, he carries a gun to further remove suspicion that he is not with them 100%. He will probably even go through a time where he questions why he doesn't use guns beyond the fact that Batman doesn't. We don't know that he will use the gun anymore lethally than he used his razor sharp wingings (such as in Nightwing 19, for example).

In short, if he retains his personality and character, he is still Dick Grayson, just in a new situation.

As for him not being spy, that is why Helena B is there, to train him. Dick has the skill set to make a pretty dang good spy.

As I said before, This is like making superman a detective and wonder woman and assassin. Dick isn't a spy and doesn't use guns. Simple as that. You can support this book all you want but that doesn't change.

Umm maybe you should catch up to the Times OP . Nightwing doesn't lead the titans. Red Robin does. And maybe you don't know it, but the whole reason Grayson is doing this is because batman wants him to do it as a mission for him.

If you're going to make a hardline statement saying that Dick Grayson cannot be a spy, then you need to expand on that idea or stop making that statement. Superman and Wonder Woman are iconic heroes so it's hard to make serious changes, as popular as Dick Grayson is, he really isn't iconic, if he represents anything it's actually change.

@jayc1324: You saying something without supporting it doesn't mean its true. Dick has never been a spy, is what you mean to say. You're interpretation of a character beloved by many is not holy writ.

And for the record, Superman being in something more of a detective story would be all sorts of interesting to read. Also, spies don't necessarily kill. Spies necessarily spy, which technically means something closer to "information gathering" than killing. In the movies, do spies kill? Sure. Have there been representations in media of spies who don't kill? Yes.

Can you give me a reason that Dick doesn't use guns other than "Daddy doesn't want me to?" Because if not, then I'd say Dick should put on some big boy pants and wrestle with the issue himself. You can't live on your fathers convictions forever, you have to develop your own. We can pretty much rest assured that he isn't all of a sudden turning into the punisher, as even King, the pro-gun contingent of the creative team, has said he won't.

@dropkickjake: No changing superman would be horrible and destroy his character. Hard to inspire hope as a detective. And I didn't say dick kills now. But he uses a gun. He should not use a gun because Dick Grayson doesn't use guns.

@jayc1324: You still haven't told me why Dick doesn't use guns.Making a statement and supporting it are two different things. Also, thus far all we've seen is Dick carrying a gun. Which he did do as a cop. We don't know that Dick will ever even fire it, much less use lethal force. You don't personally like the direction? That's fine. It doesn't mean you have go around making blanket statements without supporting them, or acting like the creative team has been unfaithful to the character in a book you haven't even read yet.

Superman as a private eye wouldn't be great, but Superman/Clark Kent having to flex some investigative journalism muscle to solve a crime/find the bad guy... would that make such a bad story or destroy his character?

@dropkickjake: Dude superman isn't a detective. Simple as that. And what do you mean why? I don't know, ask dick Grayson. but in 74 years he never has. The fact that he is now just supports my claim that him becoming a spy is totally changing his character.

@jayc1324: The fact that he carried a firearm while in the Bludhaven PD supports my claim that he will carry one if he needs to for a cover (which he does now, as he is undercover in Spyral, as per Nightwing 30). He has not, but saying that he would never and should never is dogmatic and quite frankly is born out of the attitude that puts comics and comic characters in danger of becoming stale. Arguably, Dick Grayson's greatest stories came from his time as Batman, a time when every author writing him embraced that fact that he didn't want to be Batman, that being the Dark Knight ran somewhat contrary to his bright and fun loving character and personality. Its these types of stories, putting our heroes into situations that don't become them, making them uncomfortable, that provide character development. If Dick were to pick up a 9mm on day one and shoot a person right between the eyes with no problem, I'd be as mad as anyone. But I'd honestly prefer a Dick Grayson who carries a gun, and is even alright with using it if absolutely necessary, that has actually stepped out of Batman's shadow and really become his own character and his own man to a Dick Grayson who doesn't carry a gun but continues to live in Bruce's shadow.

And I suppose I should state, just for clarity, that I have read quite a few Dick Grayson comics, even some of the Dick Grayson: college student stuff from back in the seventies.

And finally, to continue our Superman discussion (which really just a subset of the larger issue of telling new stories while maintaining character), the fact that Superman is not naturally a detective is precisely why it would make a good story. Superman is strong. I get it. He can fly. That's neat. Laser vision? Cool. Making Clark have to investigate to track down a hard to find supervillain? That's something that might just be a problem for him. He might have to struggle in a way he is unaccustomed. That is called good story telling.

@jayc1324: The fact that he carried a firearm while in the Bludhaven PD supports my claim that he will carry one if he needs to for a cover (which he does now, as he is undercover in Spyral, as per Nightwing 30). He has not, but saying that he would never and should never is dogmatic and quite frankly is what born out of the attitude that puts comics and comic characters in danger of becoming stale. Arguably, Dick Grayson's greatest stories came from his time as Batman, a time when every author writing him embraced that fact that he didn't want to be Batman, that being the Dark Knight ran somewhat contrary to his bright and fun loving character and personality. Its these types of stories, putting our heroes into situations that don't become them, making them uncomfortable, that provide character development. If Dick were to pick up a 9mm on day one and shoot a person right between the eyes with no problem, I'd be as mad as anyone. But I'd honestly prefer a Dick Grayson who carries a gun, and is even alright with using it if absolutely necessary, that has actually stepped out of Batman's shadow and really become his own character and his own man to a Dick Grayson who doesn't carry a gun but continues to live in Bruce's shadow.

And I suppose I should state, just for clarity, that I have read quite a few Dick Grayson comics, even some of the Dick Grayson: college student stuff from back in the seventies.

And finally, to continue our Superman discussion (which really just a subset of the larger issue of telling new stories while maintaining character), the fact that Superman is not naturally a detective is precisely why it would make a good story. Superman is strong. I get it. He can fly. That's neat. Laser vision? Cool. Making Clark have to investigate to track down a hard to find supervillain? That's something that might just be a problem for him. He might have to struggle in a way he is unaccustomed. That is called good story telling.

Batman sent Dick on a mission as a spy , so I'm assuming when the mission is over , he will return back to the NightWing mantle

My guess is that this will be the case unless Grayson is wildly successful. Like, Harley Quinn levels of "wtf? they sold that many copies?" successful.

@dropkickjake: aha yea i agree

*cougHmarvelalreadydiditcougH*

-ABstract4$$#073-

Really?! Oh man. I've never heard of winter soldier in my life. I guess I'll just not buy this series about my favorite character and switch over to Marvel instead. Good thing your dropped by.

It'll only be temporary like Superior Spider-Man was. The difference though is that Grayson will probably be a good story worth reading about as opposed to Slott's ham fisted fan-fic disappointment which ruined that Superior Spider-Man was. It ruined Peter Parker's character and screwed the pooch in its long term storytelling. Seeley and King's interviews have indicated an interesting story with a good method to incorporate Dick Grayson into a James Bond esque spy story. But time will tell, maybe Grayson might not be as good as people think it is. Still, things are looking good so far.

Yup, the status quo will stand, with his family and friends discovering he's alive, being pissed at him, and him explaining himself, etc. Classic storytelling.

It's true that Dick was a cop but he never shot anyone with it and as a cop you have to carry one. Firing a gun is one thing but carrying is another. Yeah let's turn Dick into James Bond 2.0 for the sake of stepping him out of Batman's shadow. YAYAYAYAYAY! SUCH CREATIVITY"!

No. Theres a reason he doesn't use guns and just like Bruce, he doesn't believe in taking a life which 99% of the heroes believe in so not just Batman. Just because you share the same ideals as your father doesn't make you him.

Also Dick stepped out of Batman's shadow a long time ago until new52 happened. Dick was one of the best if not the best leaders in the world and the majority of heroes respected him. He led several teams and was clearly his own man.

And he hasn't been shown using a gun in Grayson yet either. Only carrying it like he did before as a police officer. You are LITERALLY judging a book by it's cover.

I think people are really over-blowing this gun thing lol and this is coming from a guy who's first impression was that, for starters, the name of the comic being Grayson is terrible.

How? The writers have said that Dick will use a gun, just not in the way we readers typically think apparently. Nonetheless, he will use a gun and the book WILL go for a JAMES BOND VIBE which is confirmed by the writers.

@redwingx: So if the writers tell you that Dick will use a gun in a different manner than we would, then why is there panic in the streets?

@youknowwhattodo: I mean. Some people are pretty set on being negative about a book with a fantistic artist (Janin) and proven writer (Seeley). Despite the fact that literally all of King, Seeley, and Janin have all said that this will still be the same Dick Grayson we know and love. "