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#1 Edited by name_already_chosen (203 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a safe space for those of us who once loved DC and remained loyal to it for five, ten, twenty years, even way back when Marvel was so popular that DC fans were often booed at comic book shops, but after sampling the New 52, realized we could never find it anything better than tepid or boring.

(Hopefully, it will be a while before the trolls come in and decide that it's not enough for New52 fans to control every other online forum, they need to control this one as well.)

It's pretty clear that the DC New52 is going to be around until one of us becomes a popular enough writer to go in and have another crisis that changes it all back to the way it was before New 52, and by then, there will be DC fans who have never known any other continuity but New52 and complain, "Why is Superman dumping Wonder Woman for this Lois Lane person? Why's Superman wearing gym trunks? How come Wonder Woman is carrying herself like an ambassador of peace instead of the warrior fan-service we are used to?"

So, the New 52 is probably here to stay; it has even infiltrated the live action movies and the animated features. Which brings me to this query:

As a long time DC fan who dislikes the New 52, how have you responded?

Have you given up on DC and become a Marvel / Image / Dark Horse fan only? Or given up on superhero comic books altogether?

Do you buy only those few DC titles you can manage to enjoy and try to ignore the rest of the New 52 multiverse? For example, Batman seems somehow to survive almost every continuity shift of the past half-century.

Have you decided to bow your head and stick with DC anyway, because a boring, disappointing DC is better than no DC at all?

Do you now give your money to comic book shop owners to complete your DC back issue collection instead, with current DC never seeing another penny of yours as long as you live?

Do you take comfort in the fact that at least you're not yelling at kids to stay off your lawn and prefacing every sentence with "in my day"? ;-)

How do you respond to it?

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#2 Posted by name_already_chosen (203 posts) - - Show Bio

I have friends of many ages, and some of my youngest friends decided to take a look at comic books just as DC New 52 came into existence, so New52 is all they know.

Some of them are pretty disappointed that I can not or will not discuss DC superheroes with them, but I know nothing good about the iterations they are currently reading, and they know nothing at all about the pre-New52 iterations I know, even though I have reprints of Superman dating back to his first appearance.

I know a lot about every era of our favorite Man of Steel -- except the current one! -- and that is enough to mean I know nothing as far as New52 fans are concerned.

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#3 Edited by VincentBlackrose (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Speaking as someone who only started reading comics when the New 52 hit, I have to say you're being a little closed-minded about this (In fact I'm surprised there's still so much hate for New 52)

I'm sure I'm not the only one who this is the case for, but New 52 (and Marvel NOW to a certain extent) was my gateway into mainstream comics (up to this point everything I read was Vertigo) and I'm sure it was for a fair number of people as well. I'm sorry you feel so injured by its existence, but I don't think that's a reason you should be dismissive about talking with your friends. New 52 opened the door for me, and let me have a story-line I could follow and know I would understand without years of back-continuity, and with that comfort it helped me expand into older stuff. Before I knew it I was reading Red Sun, Long Halloween, Dark Knight Returns, All Star Superman ect. Instead of just refusing to talk with them, meet them halfway. There is plenty of good stuff that isn't Superman, the runs of Batman, Batwoman, Swamp Thing, and Animal Man have been consistently amazing, and I've gone back to read the previous incarnations and can enjoy them as much.

Suggest stuff to your friends and maybe read along with some of their titles and give them a chance. When I hear older comic readers outright dismiss the entirety of New 52 it really makes me upset with them and draws me away from the older stuff if they are going to be that elitist about that. New stories don't erase the old ones. Superhero stories are sort of the myths of our time; the details may change but the core stays the same. Or just approach it from the perspective of a newcomer and try to experience it all over again.

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#4 Posted by PeppeyHare (4330 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not the biggest fan of the new 52 but I'm not going to bother complaining anymore. Don't see this thread going well

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#6 Posted by danhimself (21430 posts) - - Show Bio

I've ranted off my feelings about the New52 and the lazy new readers who are to blame for it in a ton of other threads....I'm too tired to do it here

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#7 Edited by CuddleBear (1397 posts) - - Show Bio

what is so different? what is the big gripe? i see this alot can someone just give me some bullet points? i know i think the whole batman and when robins were robins thing is stupid but it doesn't affect my reading of the comics

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#8 Posted by the_tree (8608 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep, I hate it.

I've found it hard to get attached to a large number of characters because of the mischaracterization and continuity destruction. I also don't like how things are being run, with the mistreatment of creators like James Robinson, John Rozum, JH Williams III, and Josh Fialkov.

I've become much more selective with what I read now.

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#9 Posted by SupBatz (2186 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not the biggest fan of the new 52 but I'm not going to bother complaining anymore. Don't see this thread going well

This. Used to be a fan of the New 52. Not so much anymore. But complaining about it has proven to be both ineffectual and less-than cathartic.

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#10 Edited by Sinisteri (632 posts) - - Show Bio

A few fringe books.

This is a great site to express opinions, exchange ideas and try to get feedback on current stories and characters.

I don't feel most of today's DC characters have heart or purpose beyond fighting and beating their own chests.

I do not like most of DC's writings at the moment. Still love the core concept of the characters. Amazed that DC is the only company that has to hit restart in such a wide spread fashion to tell stories or repeat them. The only thing I keep hearing is new 52 is good because it is new Not it is good because the stories are good. Nor do I see the positive posts that would accompany the appreciation or interest of good stories or good characters.

I can't just like just because someone says it is ok. It is also ironic that some people ask other people to be quiet about their opinions on a message board.

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#11 Posted by name_already_chosen (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@vincentblackrose: You couldn't even let One Other Person post before your condemning the thread even for existing? It was too much for you to allow one tiny, miniscule corner of the internet to exist where people could be allowed to dislike New 52 without your condemning us all as "close-minded" and "elitist"?

Why is it so difficult for you to tolerate the notion that some of us have tried New 52, have read it, and have found it distasteful, tedious, boring, or otherwise disappointing? Why must you ensure that the very first post by someone other than OP is one which subverts and sabotages the entire thread? Why?

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#12 Posted by name_already_chosen (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: You asked what you could do: you could answer the questions.

Dead thread? No. Short-lived thread? Probably, but it would be nice to read about how others are handling the loss of the authentic DC to the New 52.

Their solutions might be worth imitating -- but I will never know their answers if people like you and VincentBlackrose succeed at censoring every effort to ask such questions, even when the OP has specifically asked you not to do so and specifically stated he is trying to create a tiny safe space for those of us who defy popular mandate by daring to mislike DC's New 52.

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#14 Edited by cameron83 (8363 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_tree said:

Yep, I hate it.

I've found it hard to get attached to a large number of characters because of the mischaracterization and continuity destruction. I also don't like how things are being run, with the mistreatment of creators like James Robinson, John Rozum, JH Williams III, and Josh Fialkov.

I've become much more selective with what I read now.

@supbatz said:

@peppeyhare said:

I'm not the biggest fan of the new 52 but I'm not going to bother complaining anymore. Don't see this thread going well

This. Used to be a fan of the New 52. Not so much anymore. But complaining about it has proven to be both ineffectual and less-than cathartic.

These.

Honestly,I hate it with their poor imitations of the old universe,but whatever....DC is never going back. All I know is that my connection and emotional cord with them and their characters have been cut being that that Universe was dead (not only that,but they left the old universee in a sh*tty state right before it ended,almost like it gave up on the old universe completely).

But what's done is done,oh well. Nothing I can do about it now other than accept these lame imitations as the same characters.

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#15 Posted by batpala (342 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly hate the excuse that Donna's history was too 'complicated' so they had to get rid of her. Like, have you see what Power Girl was? She went through more changed than Donna did and she's still around. I hate what Dan's doing because he't thinking of himself first rather than what the fans want. It's not fair on us. Literally all my favourite characters have been either murdered, retconned out of existence or changed so much that they're barely recognizable.

Also I'm still bitter that they never showed her in the tv series of Teen Titans. Also has anyone noticed how they basically got rid of every single mother character in DC? [Martha Kent, Donna Troy, Dinah Lance [who was a mother figure to Sin].

Don't even get me started on changing Lois into a metahuman and how that goes against the entire point of her character.

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#16 Posted by name_already_chosen (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: threadcrapping

I find it odd how you defend yourself against accusations of intentionally sabotaging a thread by then intentionally sabotaging the thread.

If you think this thread is useless, feel free to browse the other threads. But don't be like the Christians who attend a bar mitzvah just so they can complain that the people there aren't Christian.

Just because you personally find no value in a thread doesn't mean you should try to destroy it so that no one who finds value in it can visit it. Censorship and sabotage are ugly ways for you to live your life.

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#17 Posted by name_already_chosen (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_tree: I've become much more selective with what I read now.

@cameron83: Nothing I can do about it now other than accept these lame imitations as the same characters.

@batpala: Also has anyone noticed how they basically got rid of every single mother character in DC?

Thank you for the variety of honest suggestions.

Until recently, New 52 was non-issue for me, but then a few months ago a gaggle of younger comic book readers who love New 52 entered my life, and ignoring the issue ceased to be an option.

Where I live, there are many former comic book fans who left reading comic books long before New 52, and there are many young comic book fans who began with New 52 or older ones who eventually gave in and surrendered to it or who left reading comic books altogether. Out of the hundred plus comic book fans I know around here, however, I seem to be the only one who has neither given up on DC altogether nor submitted to New 52. The few times I have posted my frustration with New 52 online the past two years have always been met with a bracing horde of trolls who could not tolerate my heresy.

So it is a nice change of pace to finally find other people who share my discontent and not only the trolls this time. Hopefully, by reading how you have handled New 52, I will have better inspiration how to deal with it myself and the kindest way to deal with that gaggle of New 52 fans now in my life.

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#18 Posted by cameron83 (8363 posts) - - Show Bio

@name_already_chosen: Absolutely! I hate the new 52,I absolutely hate this shadow of a universe that we're told is the same thing,and most new readers blindly read it and say that it's "better in every possible way",especially when they haven't had any experience with the old material that is,in my opinion,far better. Most everyone shares this opinion. I hope and believe that they will bring the old universe back because,by the looks of it,this new universe won't last long (at all). They are only doing well because of villains month and trinity war and gimmicky stuff like that. In fact,the only reason villains month does so well is mainly because of the covers. I hope they bring the old universe back,but with some modifications since it started to suck near the end.

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#19 Edited by cameron83 (8363 posts) - - Show Bio

At the same time,people also say "just read the old stuff",but:

1. The old universe was left in a dead,broken state that was almost as bad as the new 52. However,those things can be fixed and retconned out.

2. There are no new stories or anything being produced. History literally stopped and ended in that universe. It's nothing but dead.

I honestly think that they should go back to the old universe,but make it have many modifications (example given,make the SSoSV and JLA and such as it appears in Young justice....in fact,Young Justice was an excellent,clean,non-cluttered interpretation of the old universe). In the old universe,some things need to be taken out because they are just plain awful or are just unnecessary clutter. And teams need to be brought back to their former glory and not the shadow that they were. Make each team at their most powerful state. But there is nothing saying that they can't do that,but have something happen in order for it to happen (kind of like a "point a to point b situation").

I think the new 52 is staying though,and if it does....well,goodbye DC. It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. The only things I hang on from DC are from the old universe.

I hope it's going back with some changes,but I doubt it....

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#20 Edited by _Gaff_ (4830 posts) - - Show Bio

This shall be are stronghold. This is where we make are last stand. This is where we meet are doom. (all said in epic tone)

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#22 Edited by Seuss072498 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm an old/new fan of DC comics... I'm in my early 30s and read a lot of comics as a kid, but couldn't really afford to buy many. I read some from the local libraries, some I borrowed from neighbors, and kept up through general hallway banter with friends at school.

As an adult with my own job, cash flow and family, I wanted to get back in to comics again, but had no idea where to begin... The New 52 gave me a perfect starting point and I'm eternally grateful for it. Still, I understand the frustration from older fans.

As a kid I really only knew Barbara Gordon as Oracle, for example. At first, it can be jarring to see decades of continuity wiped out in the blink of an eye... The more I've thought about it though, isn't this what comics have ALWAYS done to us?

How many top-tier super heroes haven't died, been brought back, died, and been brought back again? And many of the "rebirth" stories have been flat out dumb... A mystical energy, never seen before or since... Being replaced by the same guy from an alternate universe... Most of the explanations are very little more than "never mind, they didn't really die." The way I've tried to look at it, the New 52 was just one large "Rebirth" event, but at least this time, the writers didn't blow smoke up my ass as to how it happened... It just did.

I think a lot of the New 52 books have great art and pretty good stories (there are some misses, though... Poor Ollie...) I've tried to think of the New 52 as an opportunity for ME to read Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, straight off the shelf, month to month... I never really had that opportunity as a kid.

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#24 Posted by Noteworthington (210 posts) - - Show Bio

Fan of DC in the past here, I can't say I'm happy with much that has come about with the New 52. I am however still reading, and enjoying what I can.

The new Earth 2 series is nice, but Elseworlds / Multiverses are always fun if you're into them.

Much of the continuity doesn't make sense to me, though I am trying to stay abreast of all the changes.

Maybe it will even out or I'll just get used to the dull ache where books I used to love once resided.

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#25 Posted by ViperKing (424 posts) - - Show Bio

Look, the New 52 has negative aspects but it also has positive aspects. Personally, I think there's definitely serious issues that should be changed but DC won't be changing anything for the next fifty years or so.

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#26 Edited by Mrgreenlantern (682 posts) - - Show Bio

someone once said something on a wrestling forum about a wrestling game along the lines of "this shit sucks" people responded to him with a simple response...make your own game

now take a guess what this guy did? yea he made his own game , now if he can do that you fans that dislike the new52 so much get together and start writing the greatest fanfic or your own characters. All this whining solves nothing whatsoever

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#27 Edited by lvenger (28438 posts) - - Show Bio

The irony is that this thread has become nothing like the very thing the OP created it to be.

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#28 Posted by BR_Havoc (1685 posts) - - Show Bio

I cut back on a ton of titles I think I'm down to 4 DC books (WW,Harley Quinn,Justice League and Superman/Wonder Woman) . Wonder Woman I feel could of been in the pre flashpoint universe because of JMS so I really enjoy that book. Other then that I found myself going over and finding good books at Marvel or Image.

The new 52 has a ton of problems and it could be fixed if they put more competent people in charge.

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#29 Edited by GuyGardner777 (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah the NEW 52 kinda sucks bad and trying to like it I really am, that and even Man of Steel felt New 52ish ugh... Look DC please do another CRISIS or something or at least one title called DC UNIVERSE that has stories of the old modern era, pre 52 for all your loyal fans for years/decades. you know it makes sense.

Best thing to do though is bring back the much loved one, hey keep the Wildstorm connected, just bring it back, pretty please :)

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#30 Posted by CrazyScarecrow (2311 posts) - - Show Bio

A safe spot on the Internet for New 52 hate? I thought that was what all of the Internet was for!

I think the original poster needs to calm down some. It is great you don't like the way DC is currently going with their characters (hell I hate how New 52 ruined Teen Titans, took away Doom Patrol, made Cyborg a founding member, and won't give Ray Palmer the role of the Atom), but go as far as avoiding a conversation with your friends who are enjoying the New 52 just because it is the New 52 is going a little to far. Again I am not saying you are not entitled to your own opinion, just saying to calm down some.