Personally I could see them setting up a Secret Avengers movie with the roster being: Winter Soldier, Black Widow, War Machine, Hawkeye, and Ant-Man. Maybe even throw in Mockingbird as another female character, as well as giving Hawkeye a possible love-interest.
As for a Winter Soldier solo movie. I'd love to see one, I could see Stan's Bucky working alongside Nick Fury and the rest of S.H.I.E.L.D. to deal with a threat that someone like Captain America can't.
Also, a bit random and I'm curious if I missed something, but why does the CBR article start off stating:
Captain America's sidekick was originally shot, mortally wounded and believed to have died in World War II at the hands of Cap's mortal enemy, the Red Skull...
Um...did I miss something? I know Bucky got shot and thrown out of a train and off a cliff in the first movie, but when did Red Skull shoot Bucky and kill him? O_o
@slimj87d: @war_killer: Yea Bucky died when they were going after Zola, Skull wasn't even there.
Yeah, I thought that's what they were referencing to...but it was a random souped-up Hydra soldier that ended up shooting Bucky out of the train, not the Red Skull. Heck, that wasn't even the thing that "killed" him, it was the fall after. lol
To get a better understanding of why someone would use “Winter Soldier” as the name of a comic book character, I turned to the person who used “Winter Soldier” as the name of a comic book character: Ed Brubaker. I asked Brubaker why he chose the name, and if the Winter Soldier Hearings were an influence. He told me:
I came up with the name in 2004, when I was pitching for [Captain America]. I liked the sound of it for a Russian assassin from the cold war, and also liked its connections to Thomas Paine, my personal favorite founding father. The “summer soldier” quote is from The American Crisis, and I believe he meant that the summer soldiers are only patriots when it’s easy to be, but the winter soldier is a true soldier for the cause.
But yes, the first time I heard the specific name was when reading about the Vietnam War and the Winter Soldier hearings. I think that sparked something, a name that could imply Russia’s cold winters and the cold war, that was also tied to atrocities in another war, and that connected all the way back to the American Revolution. It’s a very evocative name for a Captain America villain.
@war_killer: I was rereading Brubakers run and Fury uses face reconnection tech to tell how much the Winter Soldier aged between appearances and I just added it up.
To get a better understanding of why someone would use “Winter Soldier” as the name of a comic book character, I turned to the person who used “Winter Soldier” as the name of a comic book character: Ed Brubaker. I asked Brubaker why he chose the name, and if the Winter Soldier Hearings were an influence. He told me:
I came up with the name in 2004, when I was pitching for [Captain America]. I liked the sound of it for a Russian assassin from the cold war, and also liked its connections to Thomas Paine, my personal favorite founding father. The “summer soldier” quote is from The American Crisis, and I believe he meant that the summer soldiers are only patriots when it’s easy to be, but the winter soldier is a true soldier for the cause.
But yes, the first time I heard the specific name was when reading about the Vietnam War and the Winter Soldier hearings. I think that sparked something, a name that could imply Russia’s cold winters and the cold war, that was also tied to atrocities in another war, and that connected all the way back to the American Revolution. It’s a very evocative name for a Captain America villain.
I had always presumed he was named after the Russian Winter and the fact that nearly every enemy that has invaded Russian was eventually defeated by the winter like Hitler and Napoleon.
To get a better understanding of why someone would use “Winter Soldier” as the name of a comic book character, I turned to the person who used “Winter Soldier” as the name of a comic book character: Ed Brubaker. I asked Brubaker why he chose the name, and if the Winter Soldier Hearings were an influence. He told me:
I came up with the name in 2004, when I was pitching for [Captain America]. I liked the sound of it for a Russian assassin from the cold war, and also liked its connections to Thomas Paine, my personal favorite founding father. The “summer soldier” quote is from The American Crisis, and I believe he meant that the summer soldiers are only patriots when it’s easy to be, but the winter soldier is a true soldier for the cause.
But yes, the first time I heard the specific name was when reading about the Vietnam War and the Winter Soldier hearings. I think that sparked something, a name that could imply Russia’s cold winters and the cold war, that was also tied to atrocities in another war, and that connected all the way back to the American Revolution. It’s a very evocative name for a Captain America villain.
I had read somewhere before about the "summer soldier" quote by Thomas Paine. But I know vary little about the Vietnam War or these Winter Soldier hearings. But that's something I loved about Ed Brubaker's run, the fact that he appeared to know a lot of about history and used that to shape his Captain America stories around.
Two of my favorite lines in Brubaker's run were in The Winter Soldier arc where Sharon Carter is arguing with Steve about possibly having to kill Bucky, as she blamed him for all of death that the Winter Soldier had caused. But Steve argues that Bucky was merely "the gun" and that Lukin was the was the one who "pulled the trigger." I remember reading this scene a while back, and seeing how relevant it was today with all of this talk over gun-regulations and gun-control.
Another scene was right Civil War and Steve's "death," where Bucky is at a bar and get's into an argument with a dude who claims Steve was a traitor as he "went against the will of the American people." Bucky makes a point that Steve would argue that just because a majority of people believe something is right, that doesn't make it so. He goes on to mention that Steve would point out that a majority of a Americans once supported slavery, but that still didn't make it.
While these scenes were short and sometimes easy to overlook, when you realize how relevant they are even to us today, it's just shows how much Brubaker knows about America's history and how politics work. Seeing then how he used these things to shape his stories is one of the reasons why I feel his run on Captain America was so interesting, because it dealt with real issues and struggles that real people deal with.
@war_killer: I was rereading Brubakers run and Fury uses face reconnection tech to tell how much the Winter Soldier aged between appearances and I just added it up.
Yeah, I just looked it up and it appears that Bucky had been kept in stasis between 1945 and 1954 until Department X began "Project: Winter Soldier" '54. So if Bucky was 20 when he was found in 1945 and was kept in stasis until 1954, that would put him at around 24 in 1958 (Captain America and Bucky #624). So adding the eight years mentioned by Fury, that would put Bucky at around 32 in the present day (unless my math is wrong somewhere?).
I had completely overlooked this scene so thanks for mentioning! :D
To get a better understanding of why someone would use “Winter Soldier” as the name of a comic book character, I turned to the person who used “Winter Soldier” as the name of a comic book character: Ed Brubaker. I asked Brubaker why he chose the name, and if the Winter Soldier Hearings were an influence. He told me:
I came up with the name in 2004, when I was pitching for [Captain America]. I liked the sound of it for a Russian assassin from the cold war, and also liked its connections to Thomas Paine, my personal favorite founding father. The “summer soldier” quote is from The American Crisis, and I believe he meant that the summer soldiers are only patriots when it’s easy to be, but the winter soldier is a true soldier for the cause.
But yes, the first time I heard the specific name was when reading about the Vietnam War and the Winter Soldier hearings. I think that sparked something, a name that could imply Russia’s cold winters and the cold war, that was also tied to atrocities in another war, and that connected all the way back to the American Revolution. It’s a very evocative name for a Captain America villain.
I had read somewhere before about the "summer soldier" quote by Thomas Paine. But I know vary little about the Vietnam War or these Winter Soldier hearings. But that's something I loved about Ed Brubaker's run, the fact that he appeared to know a lot of about history and used that to shape his Captain America stories around.
Two of my favorite lines in Brubaker's run were in The Winter Soldier arc where Sharon Carter is arguing with Steve about possibly having to kill Bucky, as she blamed him for all of death that the Winter Soldier had caused. But Steve argues that Bucky was merely "the gun" and that Lukin was the was the one who "pulled the trigger." I remember reading this scene a while back, and seeing how relevant it was today with all of this talk over gun-regulations and gun-control.
Another scene was right Civil War and Steve's "death," where Bucky is at a bar and get's into an argument with a dude who claims Steve was a traitor as he "went against the will of the American people." Bucky makes a point that Steve would argue that just because a majority of people believe something is right, that doesn't make it so. He goes on to mention that Steve would point out that a majority of a Americans once supported slavery, but that still didn't make it.
While these scenes were short and sometimes easy to overlook, when you realize how relevant they are even to us today, it's just shows how much Brubaker knows about America's history and how politics work. Seeing then how he used these things to shape his stories is one of the reasons why I feel his run on Captain America was so interesting, because it dealt with real issues and struggles that real people deal with.
Agreed. Now I just wish someone would do that with the UK lol
@jonny_anonymous: @war_killer: I remember that scene as well and I agree. Ed Brubaker was a fantastic writer. I'm going to get Velvet when it's in a trade paperback. I heard it's also very good. I just wish he didn't sign that image deal... but I get a feeling he started to get bored with Marvel and the possible restrictions that were put on him and I respect his decision for leaving to do more creative owned work. I just miss him in the Marvel Universe.
Sometimes I wish there was a way we could ask him questions and get answers. I wish I could ask more about Bucky's SHIELD pistol, but at least I got information from Steve Epting when I met him at SDCC 2012.
@slimj87d: Brubaker was never interested in writing superhero comics and he never intended to write them for so long, I think it's great that he's finally at a point in his career where he can write stories he really cares about with 100% creative freedom.
@slimj87d: Brubaker was never interested in writing superhero comics and he never intended to write them for so long, I think it's great that he's finally at a point in his career where he can write stories he really cares about with 100% creative freedom.
I can understand that, but his Captain America rarely dealt with superheroes. Outside of Civil War, his series was basically in its own little corner of the Marvel Universe. It focused more on Captain America the Super-Soldier rather than Captain America the Super-Hero. That was something I enjoyed about his run, as he brought Cap back to his roots as a soldier and had Steve going on special ops missions, dealing with terrorist groups like Hydra and A.I.M.
His run on Winter Soldier didn't even deal with superheroes, but was more a black ops-Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. series.
@slimj87d: Brubaker was never interested in writing superhero comics and he never intended to write them for so long, I think it's great that he's finally at a point in his career where he can write stories he really cares about with 100% creative freedom.
I can understand that, but his Captain America rarely dealt with superheroes. Outside of Civil War, his series was basically in its own little corner of the Marvel Universe. It focused more on Captain America the Super-Soldier rather than Captain America the Super-Hero. That was something I enjoyed about his run, as he brought Cap back to his roots as a soldier and had Steve going on special ops missions, dealing with terrorist groups like Hydra and A.I.M.
His run on Winter Soldier didn't even deal with superheroes, but was more a black ops-Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. series.
Yea but it still has superhero stuff in it like Falcon and cosmic cubes
I understand what War Killer meant too though. Brubaker aimed for a thriller with military special agent type of feel. Of course you can't grab a super hero without it being a superhero comic. He mixed both of these themes together and did it exceptionally well. I never read Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD, now I'm curious how those issues were.
I understand what War Killer meant too though. Brubaker aimed for a thriller with military special agent type of feel. Of course you can't grab a super hero without it being a superhero comic. He mixed both of these themes together and did it exceptionally well. I never read Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD, now I'm curious how those issues were.
Exactly. While his stories did have superheroes in them, Brubaker's focus was more on Steve working with S.H.I.E.L.D., dealing with political terrorist threats that you would expect someone like Captain America to deal with, unlike the traditional superhero like Spider-Man for example.
In the back of my trade paperback of Red Menace, there's a little interview where Brubaker talks his run and how he was writing Captain America. During the article he brings up a point about how in the 90s writers would make Captain America out to be this kind of guy who never killed anyone, never used a gun, and was more like Batman in that regards. But Brubaker really disliked that because, in his mind, what use is a Super-SOLDIER if we won't kill anyone. He thought it was odd that writers would say that here's a guy who lived through pretty much all of World War II and didn't kill ONE person. He just found that idea and writing for Cap a bit silly and really doesn't fit the character, which personally I agree with.
That's what I loved about Brubaker's run, because he brought Steve back to his roots and focused more on the soldier rather than the superhero side of Cap. Captain America obviously is a superhero, he's an icon and symbol of hope to those he fights alongside, but he was originally created to be the first of an army of soldiers, and that's what Brubaker's run focused on...Captain America: The Super-Soldier.
I understand what War Killer meant too though. Brubaker aimed for a thriller with military special agent type of feel. Of course you can't grab a super hero without it being a superhero comic. He mixed both of these themes together and did it exceptionally well. I never read Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD, now I'm curious how those issues were.
Exactly. While his stories did have superheroes in them, Brubaker's focus was more on Steve working with S.H.I.E.L.D., dealing with political terrorist threats that you would expect someone like Captain America to deal with, unlike the traditional superhero like Spider-Man for example.
In the back of my trade paperback of Red Menace, there's a little interview where Brubaker talks his run and how he was writing Captain America. During the article he brings up a point about how in the 90s writers would make Captain America out to be this kind of guy who never killed anyone, never used a gun, and was more like Batman in that regards. But Brubaker really disliked that because, in his mind, what use is a Super-SOLDIER if we won't kill anyone. He thought it was odd that writers would say that here's a guy who lived through pretty much all of World War II and didn't kill ONE person. He just found that idea and writing for Cap a bit silly and really doesn't fit the character, which personally I agree with.
That's what I loved about Brubaker's run, because he brought Steve back to his roots and focused more on the soldier rather than the superhero side of Cap. Captain America obviously is a superhero, he's an icon and symbol of hope to those he fights alongside, but he was originally created to be the first of an army of soldiers, and that's what Brubaker's run focused on...Captain America: The Super-Soldier.
Well he must have still thought it was to superhero or he wouldn't have quit the big two altogether
Well he must have still thought it was to superhero or he wouldn't have quit the big two altogether
From what I read, the reason he left wasn't due to his books being "too superhero'y" but was because he couldn't keep up with how Marvel literally wanted all of their main titles (like Cap, Iron Man, Spider-Man, etc.) literally coming out like twice a month. From how it was said, it appeared more like Marvel had basically just burned him out and that's why he left.
Though it should be noted that while Brubaker had left Captain America, he was still working on his Winter Soldier series at that time. I remember reading a while back about how Brubaker actually had more stories planned for Winter Soldier, but the series was dropping in sales and appeared that it was going to be cancelled, so Brubaker began looking at other options. But apparently Winter Soldier's sales ended up increasing and Marvel wanted Brubaker to continue, but he had already signed on to do other creator owned stuff, thus keeping him from continuing. That's most likely why Brubaker didn't finish the last like five issues of Winter Soldier and instead those issues were written by a completely new writer and the series was cancelled after that.
It's a shame really, as it appeared Brubaker would have been happy to continue, but Marvel was pushing their writers too hard and it ultimately cost them one of their all-star writers. :(
@war_killer: His exact words were that he didn't get in to comics to write superhero stories and that he never intended to write them for as long as he did and the plan was always to go totally independent.
@war_killer: His exact words were that he didn't get in to comics to write superhero stories and that he never intended to write them for as long as he did and the plan was always to go totally independent.
Well, to be fair, Bucky basically was HIS character anyways. He may have not created the character, but he modernized the character to the point that he pretty much made Bucky his. :P Since Brubaker left Marvel Bucky has rarely been used, and when he is used he's never written quite like Brubaker wrote him. It's just a shame he wasn't able to do more with Bucky following his return as the Winter Soldier. I can't help but feel like Brubaker could have really explored Bucky's character more, especially after everything that went down between him and Black Widow.
@war_killer: Yea in my head Bucky or at least the Winter Soldier is a Brubaker creation, I mean he pretty much defined everything about him all he had before was a name. Tell me, what did you think of Jason Latour's arc?
@jonny_anonymous: Well even Bucky had become Brubaker's to some extent, seeing as he really modernized the character, transforming Bucky from a kid sidekick and into a young adult special forces soldier. He showed how someone like Bucky, who has no powers, would be useful alongside a Super-Soldier as well as alongside other super-humans like The Invaders. Brubaker really redefined the character, giving him a real and believable purpose in the Marvel Universe.
I really didn't care for it LaTour's run and honestly found the story boring and uninteresting. They should've just ended the series with issue #14, Brubaker's last issue.
So whats everybody thinking about Bitter March so far?
WINTER SOLDIER: THE BITTER MARCH #4 (of 5)
RICK REMENDER (W) • ROLAND BOSCHI (A)
Cover by ANDREW ROBINSON
• Can the Red Room keep the Winter Soldier under control after Bucky’s consciousness begins to surface?
• S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Ran Shen continues his desperate battle to save a woman who holds the key to the Cold War.
• HYDRA, S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Winter Soldier all play a role in creating the monster that will one day break Captain America!
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
I'm hoping issue #3 will give us more Winter Soldier action. So far we've had too little of Winter Soldier to justify his name being in the title. But hopefully, following the end of issue #2, we'll start to see more action from Bucky in the mini-series.
@jonny_anonymous: Also I just got back from seeing Captain America: TWS. Dude the movie was epic! Best solo-movie of Marvel's Phase 2.
@jonny_anonymous: I'm curious on what you thought about how Bucky was handled in the movie? I was reading some other comments from people who claim that one of the flaws they had was how Bucky didn't get a lot of screen time and some even claimed he felt like an afterthought.
I have my own answer about how I felt Bucky was handled, but I wanted to know what some others thought first.
@war_killer: I like the way Bucky was handled, I mean that's pretty much how it went down in the comic. In fact Bucky gets more screen time in the movie than he did in the comic. Also this is all setting up for future films as well.
@war_killer: I like the way Bucky was handled, I mean that's pretty much how it went down in the comic. In fact Bucky gets more screen time in the movie than he did in the comic. Also this is all setting up for future films as well.
That's what I was thinking. He's barely in the actual story in the comics, having a few scenes here and there, but the majority of the story dealt more with Steve trying to deal with the revelation of Bucky being the Winter Soldier. He really didn't have any lines in the movie, which he didn't have in the comics either.
The movie ended much like the comic did, with Bucky trying to find his place in the world and Steve preparing to search for Bucky and help him. The second after-credit scene, with Bucky visited the Cap museum, really set up the idea that the next movie would focus more on Cap and Bucky. I can't help but wonder if maybe, just maybe, Marvel will actually end Chris Even's run as Cap with a bang by having third movie focus on Steve trying to save Bucky from himself, ultimately ending with Steve dying and passing the shield on to Bucky. Setting Bucky up as the new Captain America for a new trilogy.
I know it's a fan's dream at this moment, but after leaving theater I could really see Marvel adapting all of Ed Brubaker's run, even the Death of Captain America storyline.
@war_killer: I like the way Bucky was handled, I mean that's pretty much how it went down in the comic. In fact Bucky gets more screen time in the movie than he did in the comic. Also this is all setting up for future films as well.
That's what I was thinking. He's barely in the actual story in the comics, having a few scenes here and there, but the majority of the story dealt more with Steve trying to deal with the revelation of Bucky being the Winter Soldier. He really didn't have any lines in the movie, which he didn't have in the comics either.
The movie ended much like the comic did, with Bucky trying to find his place in the world and Steve preparing to search for Bucky and help him. The second after-credit scene, with Bucky visited the Cap museum, really set up the idea that the next movie would focus more on Cap and Bucky. I can't help but wonder if maybe, just maybe, Marvel will actually end Chris Even's run as Cap with a bang by having third movie focus on Steve trying to save Bucky from himself, ultimately ending with Steve dying and passing the shield on to Bucky. Setting Bucky up as the new Captain America for a new trilogy.
I know it's a fan's dream at this moment, but after leaving theater I could really see Marvel adapting all of Ed Brubaker's run, even the Death of Captain America storyline.
Yea exactly and it's better that way. The Winter Soldier is like a ghost or the terminator, appearing at the worst possible moment, owning everybody and then disappearing in to the night. Also it's not like he didn't get any character scenes, there was the "With you till the end of the line" scenes, his reprogramming scene and the ending scene.
I've had the idea that Bucky would take over from Cap ever since he used the shield in the first Cap film and the Winter Soldier only makes me that much more certain especially with the facts that Evans only has 3 more movies left and Sebastian Stan has signed on for 9 more as well as it's the same directors doing the next Cap films. Also I'm convinced that Black Widow still knows more than shes letting on, even after she told Cap she'd faced Winter Soldier before every time Bucky was brought up she had a look on her face.
@war_killer: I like the way Bucky was handled, I mean that's pretty much how it went down in the comic. In fact Bucky gets more screen time in the movie than he did in the comic. Also this is all setting up for future films as well.
That's what I was thinking. He's barely in the actual story in the comics, having a few scenes here and there, but the majority of the story dealt more with Steve trying to deal with the revelation of Bucky being the Winter Soldier. He really didn't have any lines in the movie, which he didn't have in the comics either.
The movie ended much like the comic did, with Bucky trying to find his place in the world and Steve preparing to search for Bucky and help him. The second after-credit scene, with Bucky visited the Cap museum, really set up the idea that the next movie would focus more on Cap and Bucky. I can't help but wonder if maybe, just maybe, Marvel will actually end Chris Even's run as Cap with a bang by having third movie focus on Steve trying to save Bucky from himself, ultimately ending with Steve dying and passing the shield on to Bucky. Setting Bucky up as the new Captain America for a new trilogy.
I know it's a fan's dream at this moment, but after leaving theater I could really see Marvel adapting all of Ed Brubaker's run, even the Death of Captain America storyline.
Yea exactly and it's better that way. The Winter Soldier is like a ghost or the terminator, appearing at the worst possible moment, owning everybody and then disappearing in to the night. Also it's not like he didn't get any character scenes, there was the "With you till the end of the line" scenes, his reprogramming scene and the ending scene.
I've had the idea that Bucky would take over from Cap ever since he used the shield in the first Cap film and the Winter Soldier only makes me that much more certain especially with the facts that Evans only has 3 more movies left and Sebastian Stan has signed on for 9 more as well as it's the same directors doing the next Cap films. Also I'm convinced that Black Widow still knows more than shes letting on, even after she told Cap she'd faced Winter Soldier before every time Bucky was brought up she had a look on her face.
Agreed. When Bucky picked up the shield in TFA, you could tell that the writers were giving a nod to his time as Cap. In fact, which I've seen others point out, there's even a point during Cap's fight with Winter Soldier on the highway that Bucky ends up using Steve's shield against him, further adding to the idea that Bucky may become Cap.
See at first I thought that Black Widow knew something about the Winter Soldier that she wasn't letting on to. When Cap mentioned fighting a man with a "metal arm" Natasha instantly went silent and even became a bit uneasy if you pay attention to her body movements. Later on she explains her encounter with the Winter Soldier, where he killed a target that she was responsible with protecting. She also mentioned something about Winter Soldier using something "Soviet" which I didn't catch.
Widow also made mention of being involved in the KGB. My only problem with that is that, as far as I know, in the MCU Bucky's origins aren't connected with the KGB or the Soviet Union. From what I gathered, Bucky's transformation into the Winter Soldier was by Hydra, not the Soviets, and that he was Hydra's secret weapon that they would put on ice until he was needed. Though, it is possibly that I might have missed something.
@war_killer: She says the bullets they took out of Fury were soviet made. Bucky is connected to the Soviet Union in that Hydra had infiltrated the KGB as well as SHIELD and it was them acting through the KGB that turned Bucky in the the Winter Soldier.
@war_killer: She says the bullets they took out of Fury were soviet made. Bucky is connected to the Soviet Union in that Hydra had infiltrated the KGB as well as SHIELD and it was them acting through the KGB that turned Bucky in the the Winter Soldier.
Oh okay, thank you! See I remember Widow mention something about the bullets Fury was shot with be Soviet related. I just wasn't able to catch if she was trying to imply Winter Soldier being connected to the Soviet Union or not. But that makes a lot more sense know. Also, like mentioned before, with the Widow acted whenever Winter Soldier appeared. Honestly I really didn't think that she was acting that way because she knew him, but was simply terrified because she had heard of him and knew what he was capable of.
But thinking back to her mentioning of working for the KGB, as well as Bucky using Soviet related bullets, I do agree that it's possible that she may have not been letting on to Steve about everything she knew about the Winter Soldier...possibly alluding to her having encountered him before, maybe even a short romance like in the comics.
@war_killer: It's just even after she told Cap she had fought the Winter Soldier before she was still acting weird also I read an interview Sebastian says that Bucky and Natasha's past is hinted at.
@war_killer: It's just even after she told Cap she had fought the Winter Soldier before she was still acting weird also I read an interview Sebastian says that Bucky and Natasha's past is hinted at.
Yeah, even at the end when she gave Steve the files she managed to dig up on the Winter Soldier, she seemed hesitant to say anymore...even warning Steve about what he might find in those files. If Marvel does choose to make Bucky Captain America or even do a Winter Soldier spin-off, they could simply be setting up a possible romance between the two.
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