Silver/Wonder Woman vs Strafe/Geo-Force

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Silver2467

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#1  Edited By Silver2467

   

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VS 

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Wonder Woman vs Geo-Force.   
  
Scenario:
  • Wonder Woman and Geo-Force are both chasing Gorilla Grodd. However, when they incapacitate him, both need to return him to their respective teams, the Outsiders and the JLA, for questioning in various crimes. As both are unwilling to surrender him to the other, they begin a discussion, which leads to an argument and then to a fight.

Rules: 
  • This is Wonder Woman prior to Wonder Woman 600, meaning she has her regular powers.
  • Both characters have standard equipment.
  • No prep.
  • No BFR. Win by any and all other standard means.
  • Morals on.
  • Battle takes place in an unpopulated field area. There are mountainous regions and forestry areas very nearby.
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Strafe Prower

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#2  Edited By Strafe Prower

Lets get this show on the road :)

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Silver2467

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#3  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: Alright. My first point, I believe Wonder Woman has the speed advantage. Diana tends to fight head to head. When she engages him, she will have combat speed to strike repeatedly and also the reaction time to avoid any counterattack he may try. 
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Strafe Prower

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#4  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: A great point, but Brion has his Gravity control to help balance that speed difference. He could at most slow down her movements via gravity control. 
 
Something I would like to point out is his versatility. He certainly is just as deadly or more so in a close environment with his strength, Earth Control, Gravity Control and Heat Blasts. I think that may be the advantage he would need to win the match.
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Silver2467

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#5  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: Her flight could be a serious help to her in that. That, and her strength. He could have the weight of a city pulling her down with his gravity, and it still would not be enough. You may have a point with his gravity control slowing her down though. Good point. 
 
On his lava blasts, that would be ineffective. Wonder Woman has actually been submerged into lava before completely unharmed. She also has other feats of resistance to extreme heat, radiation, and energy such as being thousands of feet underground unaffected by the heat, closing a huge radiation leak in a nuclear facility, and tanking a nuke. 
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Strafe Prower

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#6  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: Agreed, At the most I could see his gravity control slowing her down just enough for them to be on equal playing terms in comabt speed. Note, that isn't the only way he can use his gravity control though. 
 
Nice examples. Would it work as an concussive force in case he needs space to perform something at a distance? I know he can discharge it from all over his body. 
 
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Read them from the bottom scan to top scan.
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Silver2467

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#7  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: Good scans. So, he blew away their bodies with his gravity control? (Sorry if I am misreading it.) That is impressive. I think it could be used to his advantage, but I doubt it would be do any significant harm to her. Although, if you have more scans where he applies it in combat, I would appreciate it. 
 
Probably. Unless Geo-Force can increase the power of his lava blasts from regular lava, she would probably not be harmed by it. However, I could see it possibly staggering her if he just continually sprays her. But, again, legitimate damage seems unlikely, to me anyway. If you have examples that refute this, let me know. There is also the matter of her bracelets, which could be effective in deflecting it. She can create a force field in front of her with them if need be, although that tactic is not often used. 
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Strafe Prower

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#8  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: That was his lava blasts radiated through out his body, judging from his hand glowing before he did it. He usually uses his hands for the blasts, but shows here he can project it througout his entire body. While I agree that it wouldn't leave lasting damage on Wonder Woman, I think I might potentially knock her backwards a few feet. I will let you know if I find any more instances of him using it. I'm re reading volume 2 for feats haha. 
 
The most i've seen it do is the following. 

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That was with little oxygen. I doubt that will have any lasting effects on Wonder Woman either, but It might give him a chance for distance if he needs it. I could see it being blocked by her bracelets though. 
 
Another note is his shields. They are quite powerful and would be hard for Wonder Woman to penetrate if he put them up, though I think she could after a bit.
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Silver2467

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#9  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: Oh. Fail. My bad. Sorry. I thought you were giving examples of his gravity powers. Good examples. I could see it staggering her if he gets a direct hit in. I can agree with you on that.  
 
What is the most impressive attack his shields been able to protect against?
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Strafe Prower

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#10  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: I can give examples of his gravity powers if I need to :) Just ask. 
 
They have mounted attacks from an enraged BL. 
 

He shows his shields in 2 ways there. Earth and Gravity control. I have a couple more examples of his shields. 
 

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Blocking basic machine gun fire out of a giant robot.

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Here he contains a bomb explosion, nuclear missile IIRC, via gravity control.
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Silver2467

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#11  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: Excellent scans. I agree. His shields could be a serious factor in this. He should be able to block some attacks from her. Although given her strength, do you think she could break through her shields if she went all out? 
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Strafe Prower

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#12  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: I absolutely think she could break through the shields, but it would take a bit of time. I think it would be even harder for her if he stacked his gravity and earth shields.  
 
I also think the fact that he can use his different powers to enhance his strikes will give him a good edge against someone who can be punctured via swords. he does this with BL above.
 
Also, If he uses his versatility in the ways he has shown to, I think could have a few tricks up his sleeve.  
 
No Caption Provided

He really does have quite a few ways to attack, defend, and hinder Diana, while the same may not be so true for her.
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vance_astro

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#13  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator

Good luck guys :)

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Silver2467

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#14  Edited By Silver2467
@Vance Astro: Thanks. 
 
@Strafe Prower said:
" @Silver2467: I absolutely think she could break through the shields, but it would take a bit of time. I think it would be even harder for her if he stacked his gravity and earth shields.    
Good point. 
 
I also think the fact that he can use his different powers to enhance his strikes will give him a good edge against someone who can be punctured via swords. he does this with BL above.  
I may be misinterpreting this, but I think you are underestimating her durability. She has taken blows from SuperMan, Doomsday, Bizarro, etc. This is not to say that she will simply shrug off any physical blow he tries. I am mainly addressing you comment that she can be punctured via swords or other bladed or piercing weapons. That just has to do with a particular vulnerability she has. Aside from that, she has incredible levels of durability.  
 
Also, If he uses his versatility in the ways he has shown to, I think could have a few tricks up his sleeve.  
 
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He really does have quite a few ways to attack, defend, and hinder Diana, while the same may not be so true for her. "
Good scan, once again. Although, if he lifted her into the air, she could just fly in reaction to gain balance and still press forward. I agree with you about the versatility though. 
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Evil-Incarnate

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#15  Edited By Evil-Incarnate

Now this is a mature debate. good luck. :)

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Silver2467

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#16  Edited By Silver2467
@Evil Incarnate said:
" Now this is a mature debate. good luck. :) "
Appreciate it. 
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Strafe Prower

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#17  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Evil Incarnate: Thanks :) 
 
@Silver2467: I replied, but CV did something weird and didn't post it :/ No worries, I'll just rewrite it lol. 
 
I am by far not saying she has durability below his. I just pointed out the fact that Geo-Force might find a way to use his powers to create a weapon to puncture her skin like a bladed weapon, though it is doubtful. I was just throwing out ideas. 
 
I'm curious how the negative and positive waves of gravity would affect her. I don't know that it would make lasting damage, but it would at least hurt her IMO.
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#18  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Vance Astro: Thanks. 
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Silver2467

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#19  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: I see. He may be able to do something of the like. Although, in close-quarter combat, I may give an advantage to her because of her combat skill. Although, as you said, his powers working to hinder her and slow her down may be a legitimate factor in that. 
 
Alright. I will take your word for that.  
 
For the record, I was thinking about when Wonder Woman was pushed into lava, and I think it may have given her some burns. I am not sure though. I think it was in Wonder Woman #35. I could be wrong though. I do remember, however, that she did win that fight, whatever minimal effect the lava had on her notwithstanding. 
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Magian

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#20  Edited By Magian

Nice debate. Good luck and have fun.

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Strafe Prower

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#21  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: Agreed. I also want to point out the fact that while he isn't near the same level of fighting skill Diana is, he does have some H2H abilities from Batman's training. 

No Caption Provided
He isn't necessarily a great Martial Aritists, just a street smart fighter. 
 
I understand. I still don't think they will do much to her besides maybe a little knock back for Brion to get space. 
 
 I also have these scans of Brion vs. Atomic Knight who was buffed up at the time. I think you might find them interesting. 
 

They may not be in exact order, but you will get the general Idea. It also shows you the many ways he uses his powers in combat.
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Silver2467

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#22  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: I am going to turn in. I will take a look at your scans tomorrow, and we can continue this then. 
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#23  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: He does seem to have some fighting skill. Like you said though, he is not exactly a great martial artist, but it may help him some.  
 
The fight was interesting. His ability to coat his opponents in rock may be useful but only he covers her in a thick layer and then takes the opportunity to attack her quickly before she breaks out. Although, there are other uses for manipulation of earth as well. Also interesting to note that he can pull himself and his opponent back to the ground; more specifically, if Diana were to grab him and fly, he may be able to pull himself back. But, then again, this goes back to my points about her strength and flight capabilities. Still, they could be useful to some degree. 
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Strafe Prower

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#24  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467:  Agreed on all parts.
 
What effect do you think they lasso/tiara will have on the fight?
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#25  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: The tiara I think will be a non-factor. She has hit SuperMan with it before and slit his throat, but she caught him off-guard when she did that. If she did hit Geo-Force, I think it is safe to say it may cause some injury to him, but I think his shields should be able to protect him from it. 
 
The lasso could be interesting. Once again, I think given Geo-Force's powers, such as his shields, gravity control, lava bursts, etc., he may be able to prevent her from wrapping him in it, at least from a distance. However, since Diana will most likely try to make this a physical, head to head battle, if she gained the opportunity at close range, she may be to wrap it around him. Now, as we have discussed, his powers could potentially slow her down to some degree. While do question whether they could be more than hindrances to her, it give him some advantage at close range, in particular, since she would normally fight better hand to hand than he would. This is not to say that I think he could beat her in hand to hand, but I think he can make it difficult for her. Now, my point with this was that in a close-quarter fight, she will probably have an easier time wrapping the lasso around him than she would at a distance. That said, there is not guarantee she may be use it, but I think it there is a fairly good chance she might. If she did, his powers, again, could make it more difficult for her, but if she did manage to wrap the lasso around him, that would put Geo-Force at a disadvantage. Wonder Woman would most likely use it simply to make it easier for her to attack him physically, but if she did use it in some of the more creative, obscure ways she has before, it could be even more advantageous for her. For instance, she has shown some control over those wrapped in it as well as other abilities, one of which appears illusionary. So, to answer your question, I think Wonder Woman's lasso could be very useful for her; the difficulty would arise in getting it around him. 
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Strafe Prower

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#26  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: Agreed 
 
Holy crap a huge block of text! LOL 
 
I agree with what you said though. I'm curious as to whether she would use it as a first option of attacking, or going to it after a wave of Hand 2 Hand fighting. I think Geo-Force might be able to release the lasso from around him via gravity control. It wouldn't be to hard considering his level of gravitational expertise. 
 
Also, I wanted to give you a few examples of him using gravity control on an actual person. 
 

No Caption Provided
Lifts Antaeus who has Super Strength around Geo's level.

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Removes the enemies grip on Katana and carries the whole Outsiders team to safety.

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Stops the momentum of these elephants and lifts them off the ground.
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 His first use of his Gravity Control on Baron Bedlam. 
 
While none of these people are anywhere near Wonder Woman in stats, I am just giving a few examples.
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#27  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower said: 

@Silver2467: Agreed 
 
Holy crap a huge block of text! LOL 
 
I agree with what you said though. I'm curious as to whether she would use it as a first option of attacking, or going to it after a wave of Hand 2 Hand fighting.   

She would go for a hand to hand fight first. My point was that she may integrate the use of her lasso into the fight. 
 

I think Geo-Force might be able to release the lasso from around him via gravity control. It wouldn't be to hard considering his level of gravitational expertise.   

Possibly. That is debatable though. If he can use his powers to push the lasso outward with enough force to unwrap himself, then maybe so. Otherwise, he may have a very difficult time with it. Wonder Woman has some control over her lasso. Some characters have phased through it, for instance, but I am not sure how many have pushed it out away from themselves. If his control over his force fields is great enough that he can create one extremely close surrounding his entire body and then expand it to release the lasso off (or something of the like), then I can agree.  
 

Also, I wanted to give you a few examples of him using gravity control on an actual person. 
 

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Lifts Antaeus who has Super Strength around Geo's level.

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Removes the enemies grip on Katana and carries the whole Outsiders team to safety.

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Stops the momentum of these elephants and lifts them off the ground.
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 His first use of his Gravity Control on Baron Bedlam.  While none of these people are anywhere near Wonder Woman in stats, I am just giving a few examples. "
Good examples. He seems to have some creative uses for it. That is good to note.     
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Strafe Prower

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#28  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: Ok 
 
I think he could do it, but I don't have any scans that would shows such a personal force field. His fields are usually more broad against distance attacks rather than up hand 2 hand fighting. I could see him pushing the rope outwards from his body via gravity control. It may be a hard task, but I think his control of gravity would be greater than her control her lasso in combat.
 
Thanks.
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Silver2467

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#29  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: Fair enough. Although, she very well may try to constrict him as he does this. She would react if he gained the opportunity and began doing that. Not to mention, the effects of the lasso on him and Wonder Woman's attacks could all make it more difficult for him to escape from it. For instance, if she were to use its abilities and try to affect his mind (not trying to insinuate mind control), it should be less probable for him to pull himself out of it. Also, if she uses the lasso simply to restrict his movements and make it more efficient for her to attack him with generic melee strikes (which I think is a much more likely use), that also would of course lessen the possibility of him escaping its grip. 
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Strafe Prower

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#30  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: Agreed that it would not be an easy task, but Geo-Force also has powers that don't require movement (Earth Control and Lava Blasts) That he could use to lessen her concentration on the lasso if need be. Also with Geo-Force's Strength level, it will already be hard for Diana to keep the lasso on without those other factors.  I don't see her using her lasso as a way to win the match, but maybe gain the upper hand. The only thing that could keep Geo from performing feats like this would be his anger, but I think against Wonder Woman, he wouldn't show such anger.
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Silver2467

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#31  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower said:

" @Silver2467: Agreed that it would not be an easy task, but Geo-Force also has powers that don't require movement (Earth Control and Lava Blasts) That he could use to lessen her concentration on the lasso if need be.   

My point was though that she would cause the reverse effect. Given her abilities and the use of her lasso, Diana will make it difficult for him to utilize these abilities effectively while she has him wrapped in her lasso, as well as attacking him. 
 

Also with Geo-Force's Strength level, it will already be hard for Diana to keep the lasso on without those other factors.   

Strength is not really an issue. Geo-Force is not going to be able to escape using his strength. He would have to be creative with his powers in order to loosen its grip. The only means by which anyone has escaped her lasso, that I know of, was by phasing through it or somehow causing it ease off of themselves. Wonder Woman has wrapped several opponents in SuperMan's strength class in her lasso with strength not being a factor of escape. The only time strength has ever been used against her when used her lasso was when Diana wrapped it around Doomsday, and Doomsday pulled on the lasso. 
 

I don't see her using her lasso as a way to win the match, but maybe gain the upper hand. The only thing that could keep Geo from performing feats like this would be his anger, but I think against Wonder Woman, he wouldn't show such anger. "

Using her lasso as a way to win the match. ^_^ 

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To be fair, the White Martian clearly did not utilize her shape shifting, intangibility, or telepathy, but in all honesty, White Martians are generally not written to the fullest of their abilities unless fighting J'onn. And that is simply because he is one of few who can match their combination of powers. Either way though, I think you see my point. 
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#32  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: The Earth is one with Geo-Force and he can communicate with it just with his mind. It has came to his aide before without much thought from Geo-Force and I think the same could be said here. He can sense things in the earth and it literally speaks to him. I think that connection is strong enough to overcome WW's distractions. I'll give you a example. 
 

No Caption Provided
 
 
Didn't know this, I will concede this point.  
 
That won't work on Geo-Force for several reasons IMO. She left the martian's legs unwrapped, which gives opening to attack. especially from a crafty fighter such as Geo-Force.  Another thing is I don't think Geo-Force would be as helpless against the lasso, as you said yourself that the martian didn't use his abilities. Brion would also be ready to fight back after such a blow anyway, hence me thinking she could only gain the upper hand with the lasso, not win the match.
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Silver2467

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#33  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower said:
" @Silver2467: The Earth is one with Geo-Force and he can communicate with it just with his mind. It has came to his aide before without much thought from Geo-Force and I think the same could be said here. He can sense things in the earth and it literally speaks to him. I think that connection is strong enough to overcome WW's distractions. I'll give you a example. 
 

No Caption Provided
      
Interesting scan, but he is not going to be utilizing these abilities with as much efficiency or ease if he is tied in her lasso and simultaneously being thrashed by her. 
 
That won't work on Geo-Force for several reasons IMO. She left the martian's legs unwrapped, which gives opening to attack. especially from a crafty fighter such as Geo-Force.    
It was just an example. She does not tie all of her opponents in the same way in every battle. She tied opponents extremely quickly as well. She once blitzed behind Amazo (who had all of the JLA's powers at the time, including SuperMan's senses and Flash's speed) and tied his arm in the lasso before he finished a syllable of a word. 
 
Another thing is I don't think Geo-Force would be as helpless against the lasso, as you said yourself that the martian didn't use his abilities. Brion would also be ready to fight back after such a blow anyway, hence me thinking she could only gain the upper hand with the lasso, not win the match. "
The White Martian's abilities were not fully demonstrated in that instance, but White Martians =/= Geo-Force. They have greater levels of durability than Geo-Force does, I believe (if you have any legitimate durability scans, let me know). They also have much more mental acumen due to their telepathic powers. Whatever effect the lasso would otherwise have on them is nullified because of their telepathy. The Martian has offered to allow himself to be wrapped in it before for questioning, but I have never seen it fully operate while wrapped around him without his consent to it (albeit, examples of its use on him are few and far between). Essentially, all that would be done by tying a Martian in the lasso would be simply to restrict movement, but this assumes they do not use their intangibility. On the other hand, Geo-Force has no such advantages or resistances if being tied in it. She can use it to restrict movement and attack him with physical blows as she operates in combat, and, if she deems it necessary, she can use its other capabilities as well. 
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#34  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467:  What is to say he doesn't attack her when she wraps him before she can start thrashing him. Also, he still can have shields on to make the lasso trick hard to pull off anyway. Simply restricting his arm's isn't necessary making him helpless to her by any means. 
 
I have read it and IIRC the writer also stated that she was faster than Superman. Here I have some scans. 

No Caption Provided
 Obviously the writer will try to prove that against an opponent like Amazo. Also note that Amazo was doing circles around her right after she roped him.
 

No Caption Provided
Note how he gets free of the Lasso and punches her before she could even get off a punch. Then proceeds to K.O. her with electricity to the head. The writer was questionable many times in that comic and series as a whole. 
 
I also think Geo at least has equal durability to a White Martian. He has taken hits from Eradicator, Kyle, and Superman(The battle is called into question and I wouldn't use it as canon though) and kept fighting. I addressed the second part of this above.
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#35  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower said:
" @Silver2467:  What is to say he doesn't attack her when she wraps him before she can start thrashing him.   
She is faster than he is. 
 
Also, he still can have shields on to make the lasso trick hard to pull off anyway.   
I never denied that. But with some decent effort, she should be able to break through his shields. 
 
Simply restricting his arm's isn't necessary making him helpless to her by any means.   
No, no. You missed my point. The case I was trying to make by bringing that up is the fact that she can wrap opponents in her lasso quickly. I never meant to say that she would refrain from tying him anywhere but his arm or leg. 
 
Neither of the scans you posted were what I was referring to anyway. I was never mentioning the comic stating that she was faster than SuperMan, and the instance with Amazo was a different fight. In that fight, she never tied his arm in the first place. It was a different issue. 
 
I also think Geo at least has equal durability to a White Martian. He has taken hits from Eradicator, Kyle, and Superman(The battle is called into question and I wouldn't use it as canon though) and kept fighting. I addressed the second part of this above. "
Fair enough. 
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Strafe Prower

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#36  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: Not by a great margin for it to matter like you are suggesting.IMO Also, he can have shields and attack at the same time from a distance, making her closing the gap even harder. I don't think she could wrap him up before he got a shield up and started attacking. 
 
I would love to see the instance you are talking about, but I remember another fight a issue before where She appears behind him like you are saying. I may be wrong though.
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Silver2467

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#37  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower said: 

@Silver2467: Not by a great margin for it to matter like you are suggesting.IMO   

I would have to see some high-end travel, combat, and reaction speed feats from Geo-Force to believe this. 
 

Also, he can have shields and attack at the same time from a distance, making her closing the gap even harder.   

Understood. And we more or less addressed this already. I agree that he can potentially slow her down with some success and possibly hinder her movements but not to a great enough degree that it would stop her. Also, his lava attacks are basically useless. Manipulating boulders and earth can be avoided, broken through, or simply withstood. The main factors would be his gravity manipulation and shields, which would have some effectiveness on Wonder Woman but can still be overcome. 
 

I don't think she could wrap him up before he got a shield up and started attacking.  

Neither do I. I also do not believe that the lasso would be her first course of action. Diana would first try to attack him physically, as that is how she tends to fight. 
 

I would love to see the instance you are talking about, but I remember another fight a issue before where She appears behind him like you are saying. I may be wrong though. "

I have no scans of it, but Amazo was talking during a fight with the JLA. And Wonder Woman blitzes behind him, shown with her lasso around his arm, before he finished saying a syllable of a word. To make sure I do not take this out of context, he was not focusing on her, and she caught him off-guard, in a way. But it does not detract from the speed at which she operated with her lasso.    
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#38  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: I simply am to tired to continue tonight. I will reply to this tomorrow. I need sleep LOL
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#39  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: No problem. 
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#40  Edited By MrDirector786

I must say, this is a really good debate. I wish more debates could be like this. The idea of just two viners debating each other is definitely one of the best things to happen to the battles forum. Anyway, can't wait to see when you guys pick it up later today.

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#41  Edited By Silver2467
@MrDirector786 said:
" I must say, this is a really good debate. I wish more debates could be like this. The idea of just two viners debating each other is definitely one of the best things to happen to the battles forum. Anyway, can't wait to see when you guys pick it up later today. "
:)
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#42  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: i'm going to retract that statement. I personally don't have any major speed feats. If anything, that is the one area I lack in for Geo-Force 
 
I more or less agree with you here.  
 
Very True.  I think if Geo-Force doesn't use that to his advantage, it could mean his downfall.  
 
I'm sure it was in the same series. I don't really trust the series as a whole as it had alot of writing problems as a whole, but I don't doubt she could do it. I just think Amazo would react at least with the combined powers of the JLA that he had.
 
@MrDirector786:
Thanks
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#43  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: Fair enough. I think we may be close to reaching a conclusion here. 
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#44  Edited By Strafe Prower
@Silver2467: I agree. I will concede to you and say Wonder Woman wins in a hard fought match. (I have thought that since the beginning.)
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#45  Edited By Matezoide2
@MrDirector786 said:
" I must say, this is a really good debate. I wish more debates could be like this. The idea of just two viners debating each other is definitely one of the best things to happen to the battles forum. Anyway, can't wait to see when you guys pick it up later today. "
indeed,the battle forums really needed that
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#46  Edited By Silver2467
@Strafe Prower: I see. I can agree with that. Geo-Force will make a victory over him a difficult one.  
 
Been a good debate, Strafe. :)
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difficlus

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#47  Edited By difficlus
@Silver2467: @Strafe Prower: so geo force wins? who wins?
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#48  Edited By Silver2467
@difficlus: Diana wins. 
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#49  Edited By spidey 15

Is it too late to wish you good luck? 
=P

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#50  Edited By difficlus
@Silver2467: of course...:P