Yoda vs Count Dooku (Round 2)

Okay, so I haven't been able to find this topic at all (hope thats not a bad thing D:) and I'm really curious on the outcome, I personally thought their first battle was pretty good. So let's say they meet somewhere in the Clone wars, no Obi-wan or Anakin to cause a distraction, they both meet and a straight all out fight where they fought in AOTC.

Will Dooku take strike down the grandmaster, or will Yoda defeat the powerful Darth Tyranus ?

Yoda....

Yoda seemed to be wining i think he'll win mid to high dif at least 8-9/10

@enderules3: To me it looked like a stalemate, wasn't that the case ?

@marvelfanxx: Meh to me it looked like Yoda had a decent edge in the fight and wasn't trying super hard. Dooku had to attack Obi and Anakin so he could escape. Plus Yoda was able to fight Sidious near evenly who is a much more powerful opponent than Dooku.

@enderules3: Yeah, true.

bump

Yoda everytime. Literally Tyranus' superior in every facet.

@juiceboks: Mismatch I take it ? :/

@marvelfanxx: I wouldn't call it a mismatch, Dooku isn't getting steamrolled due to his own respectable level of skill and Yoda's morals. But there's no way Yoda is losing a single round.

Oh brother... haha.

@darkdefender said:

And the little green twerp would still win.

Mid-High is really lowballing Yoda. He wins 10/10, handily.

No, no it wasn't. Yoda has purposefully holding back and playing defensive, and just by dodging and parrying Dooku's blocks, he's caused the Count to get exhausted. Then he proceeded to make him flee after 10 seconds when he went on the offensive.

And he pretty much wrecked him on Vjun.

...... Yoda 10/10.

@darkdefender: Still lost.

Dooku would stomp if this was Galaxy of Heroes ;)

@darkdefender:

So inconclusive that Dooku was exhausted just by trying to keep up with Yoda or break his guard and barely being able to put up a solid enough defense against the Grandmaster's offense... And the duel lasted a good 20 seconds.

I mean, clearly inconclusive, right? No, not at all. Yoda was conclusively superior.

Dooku dies again

Yoda should win. It'd be very close, but he should win as long as he doesn't magically mess up and let Dooku get a lucky shot or something.

@silverrings: ...it's not close.

This is why some people should stay away from Star Wars.

@erkan12: lol, why is that ?

Yoda, 10/10. Handily.
I know the Movie made them look quite evenly matched. But the fact is, that Yoda no-selled everything, the Count threw at him and forced him to re-treat after 30 seconds of fighting, using a cheap trick. And even while Yoda was busy with saving Anikin and Kenobi, Dooku didn't dare to exploit this opening against his former master.

The novel and comic about their encounter explain more how one-sided this battle actually was.

Even if going by the movies alone: When Yoda was facing Sidious who was his dark-side equal in power, he needed to give it his all to block his force lighting. Im comparison to that, Yoda just toyed with Dooku's lighting. Simply see the difference in power.

Dooku is indeed powerful but Yoda and Sidious still school him.

Yoda

Yoda wins the 10th rematch as well.

Yoda

Yoda.

If prime, Yoda wins in a decent to good fight. Otherwise, Yoda in a good fight.

Dooku gave a crisp salute, igniting his own red blade, but then, formalities over, he leapt at Yoda, a sudden and devastating thrust. But one that never got close to hitting. With hardly a movement, Yoda turned the blade aside.

Dooku went into a wild flurry then, the likes of which he had not shown against Obi-Wan or Anakin, raining blows at the diminutive Master. But Yoda didn't even seem to move. He didn't step back or to the side, yet his subtle dodges and precision parries kept Dooku's blade slashing and stabbing harmlessly wide.It went on and on for many moments, but eventually Dooku's flurry began to slow, and the Count, recognizing the Futility of this attempt to overwhelm, stepped back fast.

Not fast enough.

With a sudden burst of sheer power, Master Yoda flew forward, his blade working so mightily that its residual glow outshone even those of both of Anakin's lightsabers when he was at the peak of his dance. Dooku held strong, though, his red blade parrying brilliantly, each block backed by the power of the Force, or else Yoda's strikes would have driven right through.

Just as he was about to launch a counter, though, Yoda was gone, leaping high and turning a somersault to land right behind Dooku, in perfect balance, striking hard.

Dooku reversed his grip and stabbed out behind him, intercepting the blow. He let go of his weapon altogether, tossing it just a bit, and spun about, catching it before it had even disengaged from Yoda's blade.

With a growl of rage, Dooku reached more deeply into the Force, letting it flow through him as if his physical form was a mere conduit for its power. His tempo increased suddenly and dramatically, three steps forward, two back, perfectly balanced all the while. His fighting style was one based on balance, on the back-and-forth charges, thrusts and sudden retreats, and now he came at Yoda with a series of cunning stabs, angled left and right. Never could he strike low, though, for never did Yoda seem to be on the ground, leaping and spinning, flying all about, parrying each blow and offering cunning counters that had Dooku skipping back-ward desperately.

Dooku stabbed up high, turning the angle of his lightsaber in anticipation that Yoda would dodge left. But Yoda, as if in complete anticipation of the movement, veered neither left nor right, but rather, dropped to the ground. The Count had already retracted the missed thrust, and began a second stab, this time down low, but Yoda had anticipated that, too, and went right back up behind the stabbing blade.

A sudden stab by Yoda had Dooku quick-stepping back even more off-balance, for the first time, and then Yoda flew away, up and back.

The furious Dooku pursued, thrusting hard for Yoda's head. And in his rage when his stab missed yet again, he reverted to a slashing attack. Yoda's green blade caught the blow, holding the red lightsaber at bay, locking the two in a contest of strength, physical and of the Force.

"Fought well, you have, my old Padawan," Yoda congratulated, and his lightsaber began to move out, just a bit, forcing Dooku back.

-

COUNT DOOKU charges across the space at YODA. He rains down blows upon the tiny figure. YODA doesn't budge an inch. For the first part of the contest, he parries every cut and thrust that Dooku aims. Nothing the great swordsman tries gets through. His energy drains. His strokes become feebler, slower. YODA attacks! He flies forward. COUNT DOOKU is forced to retreat. Words are insufficient to describe the range and skill of Yoda's speed and swordplay. His lightsaber his a humming blur of light. Count Dooku's lightsaber is sent cartwheeling from his hand. He staggers back, gasping and spent, against the control panel. YODA jumps onto DOOKU'S shoulders, and is about to drive the lightsaber into the top of the Count's head. 

-

Dooku was confirmed to have equalled Yoda in both their force bout and saber duel, despite exhaustion, and Yoda was not holding back. As controversial as it may sound, the good Count has a good chance of winning this with no one interrupting him before they fight.

@void_reborn: Lucas' words were vague at best - Dooku himself attributed that stalemate (where Yoda was almost entirely on the defensive) to their "knowledge of the Force", not power - and downright contradictory to the film/novel/script at worst.

I don't personally think Dooku would win, as I doubt it was ever intended for him to be portrayed as superior to Yoda, even if you nitpicked every detail about the AOTC fight scenes to suit the notion. I do think it would be a very hard-fought battle though.

@void_reborn: Right, but I'm very sceptical of the idea that he was equal to Yoda in the Force given that Yoda was fighting almost completely defensively - indicating that he wasn't going all out - or in sabers (the film and all other material makes it clear that Dooku is outclassed).

Yoda

Yoda mid difficulty

I’ll never not find people believing he is equal to Yoda hilarious. He looked terrified and ran away.

I think the reason Yoda does not go offensive against him is because the difference in power is essentially negligible. Just like Dooku's attacks against Yoda, the opposite would be fruitless as well. The difference is, Yoda already knew this, while Dooku was overconfident in his newfound Sith knowledge and thought himself above his old Master. The film doesn't really show Dooku being outclassed, it just shows him attacking Yoda to no avail. Some might call it no-selling but it's hardly a showing of superiority if the two of them can do it.

As of Attack of the Clones, Yoda & Dooku are an even split in power, and almost equal in skill as portrayed by George Lucas via the film.

"I started out doing it fairly conservatively where he just came and fought, that really didn't work. And it was actually uh... much of the people sort of in editorial were saying 'y'know we gotta make more out of this, you gotta use Jedi powers, you gotta, you can't just go right into the swordfight.' So, I decided to go back to the Empire Strikes Back of throwing things at each other even though I knew they were equals of each other, so it was a hopeless gesture, they would have figured that out in two seconds. For the audience it actually, it's nice for them to go through this process of everyone throwing everything around."

~ George Lucas

According to Episode II's animation director, Rob Coleman, "George felt that Star Wars fans had been waiting a long time for this moment, and that they wanted to see Yoda in combat. He wanted us to show Yoda ferociously leaping and fighting, not just standing his ground and deflecting incoming attacks. The results had to be an amazing clash between the forces of good and evil with two ultimate masters of opposite sides of the Force in head-to-head combat." This is, of course, exactly what the audience got to see.

~ Star Wars: Adventures Magazine #1

But Yoda would still take a hard-fought win considering his greater experience and the fact that he is a better fighter -- during Episode II production, senior stunt coordinator/choreographer Nick Gillard confirming that Mace Windu was surpassed only by Yoda when it came to combat skills, locking the likes of Sidious & Dooku below Mace, and by extension Yoda as well:

"Mace Windu's fighting abilities are second only to Yoda. If he gets within range, there's no question... you're dead."

~ Nick Gillard

By Revenge of the Sith, Yoda catches up to his former prime again and becomes slightly superior in regard to strength in the Force.

@emmafrostxmen said:

We know for a fact that your interpretation is incorrect as we have statements from Lucas himself to the contrary.

@lord_tenebrous: Lucas’ word isn’t canon anymore so it’s funny you mentioned it. His vision has about as much say as mine does at this point.

They are not peers lol, Yoda schools him again

@emmafrostxmen said:

Buying a Picasso painting doesn't make you the supreme authority on why it was painted and what it symbolizes. Unless Disney goes and alters Attack of the Clones, Lucas' word on what it entails is final. He was its creator, this is true whether or not he is a canon source in current continuity. Dooku was intended to rival Yoda, and that's immovable.

The one who made his opponent tuck tail and run the first time round.

@lord_tenebrous: not the same thing. You don’t get creative control of a painting. Disney has retconned almost everything, nothing from the old canon is canon unless it is reconfirmed. This includes Lucas’ words, certain battles that only exist in legends, ect...

Additionally I just find it funny that people will say Dooku and Yoda are comparable then have evidence on screen of Yoda equaling the much more powerful Darth Sidious. Sidious and Dooku aren’t and never will be equals. Dooku can’t replicate almost any of Sidious’ feats point blank.

Lucas word can also be reinterpreted as Dooku being able to equal Yoda for the time that they fought without them having been actual equals.

For example: Ahsoka equalled Vader for a lengthy portion of their duel and only started losing close to the end. Ahsoka is still below Vader but she matched him in everything including the force during their duel.

@emmafrostxmen:

not the same thing. You don’t get creative control of a painting.

Has Disney physically altered the AOTC film? No? Then Lucas' word is still absolute on what it entails.

Disney has retconned almost everything, nothing from the old canon is canon unless it is reconfirmed. This includes Lucas’ words, certain battles that only exist in legends, ect...

Lucas created AOTC, whether or not he owns the rights to it now. He doesn't magically lose his status as creator upon selling Star Wars.

Additionally I just find it funny that people will say Dooku and Yoda are comparable then have evidence on screen of Yoda equaling the much more powerful Darth Sidious. Sidious and Dooku aren’t and never will be equals.

Yoda didn't equal Sidious, he overpowered him. And that was three years later. At over 800 years of age, it's perfectly plausible that Yoda might have slacked off a bit in terms of keeping his powers at their peak. By ROTS he would be a bit stronger.

Dooku can’t replicate almost any of Sidious’ feats point blank.

But he can come very, very close.

Lucas word can also be reinterpreted as Dooku being able to equal Yoda for the time that they fought without them having been actual equals.

No. Lucas says that because they are equals, period, a Force battle would be a waste of time. They would discover their inability to overpower each other within moments. And they did.

"It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force."

For example: Ahsoka equalled Vader for a lengthy portion of their duel and only started losing close to the end. Ahsoka is still below Vader but she matched him in everything including the force during their duel.

Ahsoka didn't match Vader. He was holding the upper hand for the majority of the duel we saw.