Win in a Fight: Darth Vader vs Sauron

@animehunter@itsaworld@ursaber@zariusii@oldwasher@eto@infantfinite128@amazingfantasy@g2@kiba@truemarvel@magnetic_eye@bjparks@quilsniv@blacksuit@solid_snake97@izamanaick@drarcania@rob collier@knightwriteri@friv@crazyspideyfan@riscrit@blackspidey2099@Elbarto17@alex_1333@thelurker@thor_parker82@aros001

Sauron breaks him

Vader is not beating a god.

Sauron has been beaten by mere powerless men and powerful beings such as Celembrimbor. He was a glass weapon against Isildur.

Vader is very weak against electrical discharges and can be emotionally tempered with.

@ursaber: Last I checked, Sauron captured Celebrimbor and tortured him to death. And Isildur won literally only because of Narsil.

And as you said, Sauron is excellent at manipulation. And even if he couldn't manipulate Vader, he could pick him up and disintegrate him like he did to Gil-Galad.

What are Sauron's best reaction feats? Can he react to Vader's FTE speed?

It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda.

The lightsaber hadn't been there, and then it was, and the lightsaber was a blur. Vader moved without seeming to move, and the lightsaber sliced into Roan, straight into his chest. Straight into his heart.

-Star Wars Last of the Jedi

Indeed, but Isildur was merely a man who had a specially crafted sword. Vader is a powerful cyborg with a lightsaber which I perceive to be stronger than even enchanted steel and the power of the Force and the dark side. Sauron's dark magic would clash against Vader's dark side of the Force but we've never fully seen the Dark Powers of LotR as well as we've seen the Force. Darth Vader is no stranger to magic as he has dabbled in sith sorcery and has a wealth of knowledge of the dark side. Its also worth noting that Sauron was but a Maiar and not as strong as his master Melkor who was a literal god. Even as a god Melkor was wounded seven times by Fingolfin. If someone like Fingolfin who doesn't have special powers like the Force can injure a god and Isildur can slice the One Ring from Sauron's hand just like that, then imagine what Vader could actually do in all his might.

Vader, would absolutely Blitz him, anyway is there anything that puts Sauron above Continental level.(Vader's TK is continental.)

@ursaber: I personally don't like comparing gods from Medieval-like periods who use magic to actual powerful characters with technologically powerful weapons. It's weird. And also, as you've said, a lot of the magic from Lotr is implied. It's quite unlike the magic from Harry Potter, the Elder Scrolls, etc.

Anyway:

So what if Isildur was merely a man? So is Vader. And that "special crafted" sword was literally the only thing that could penetrate Sauron's armor. There is no way to prove that Vader's saber could penetrate Sauron's armor, just like there is no way to prove that Sauron can send Vader back 100 meters via mace.

And Vader's knowledge of sorcery is not comparable to Sauron. He's corrupted entire lands and done plenty of necromancy and such. We can't compare that to Star Wars Sith sorcery.

And Finglofin could strike Morgoth all he wanted to, but he could never beat him. It's specifically stated that no power of the Elves could defeat Morgoth, a Vala.

I don't see how Vader would counter being picked up and turned to ash.

@cosmic_templar: There isn't really any. He's never had to use speed because any of his attacks are insta kills. Keep in mind that these are all standard warriors he's fighting so it's tough to compare.

@slayedigneel: Define continental level for me.

Does Sauron have actual feats? Everyone thinks he's so strong because of his implied power as Maia.

@necromancer76:

1.33 petatons and above. Moon is 29.6 exatons, so anything below that.

@slayedigneel: Ah ok thanks. I'd ASSUME Sauron does when he has his Ring, but again, there's no proof because a lot of his power is implied and there are limited sources that demonstrate his power.

@frankenmidget: Almost completely wiping out a race of humans via manipulation, insta-killing multiple armored warriors with his mace, disintegrating one of the most powerful elves, controlling thousands of people/beings while he doesn't even have a body, disintegrating Gandalf's staff while not having a body and weakened, etc.

@necromancer76:

Reason I compared them was because of their themes as Dark Lords. Otherwise I would've done Sauron vs Lich King. However this kind of fight is interesting as it presents two combatants from opposite fictional genres and times, not something as one sided as Vader against Doctor Doom.

It all really comes down to what's strongest, the Force or the Dark Power, in the middle of a one on one combat. Vader has complete mastery over his Force power while Sauron has complete power over his Dark Power and magic.

A lightsaber is literally a blade of frozen energy/fire which by all means can melt armor enchanted or not. Isildur's broken blade was able to cut Sauron's fingers as they were less armored than his entire body. Sauron's mace was seen capable of producing kinetic shockwaves to send physical beings back so it can work on Vader provided he doesn't deflect it with the Force.

Vader can prevent being reduced to ash with the very Force. Also its completely possible for Vader to affect Sauron's mind with the Force just like Sauron could manipulate Vader's mind unless their own dark powers could neutralize that form of attack.

Darth Vader is the Chosen One of Prophecy even if his power is greatly diminished he is still a powerhouse and Sauron is a very powerful sorcerer, necromancer and smith but he's no god yet he is a higher being and has lived for millennia. His dark power gives the allusion that he's godlike but unlike Melkor, he was destroyed.

My boy Sauron can take this. If he tags Vader with the mace, I'm sure he could finish the fight after that.

@necromancer76: When did he vaporize gil-galad?

@beyond: Lol he ain't coming close to touching Vader.

'

@slayedigneel: Where does Vader display continental TK?

@necromancer76: Any speed feats? If Sauron can prevent Vader from blitzing him then he could probably win via TP.

@azronger: Power scaling.

@slayedigneel: Explain.

@azronger: Vader surpassed, his former self(Anakin skywalker) who was stated, multiple times to be possibly the most powerful Jedi alive(Raw force capability obviously) Anakin is above Dooku, who gave Yoda a bit of difficulty, in reflecting his lightning. Yoda then matched Sidious with his tutaminis, Sidious scales from Vitiate's ritual of Nathema(possibly, Ziost as well), which puts them at moon level, so there should be no reason why anakin isn't. Revan while drained/insane/weakened in the foundry, was dropping meteors which puts his TK at large country level. Other Jedi master's have pulled of continental feats.

@silver2467

@shootingnova

@wollfmyth

Lol at continental Vader....Sauron wins

@hittheassasin: Lol at you not realising how many insane feats SW universe has.

@slayedigneel: i do know.However Bader never demonstrated anything near to continental and its silly to assume he is because theres nothing to suggest it.

@hittheassasin: I already showed how he scales to it.

@slayedigneel: your scaling is absolutly shit.Your claiming Yoda is continental even though he has trouble lifting up Droid battleships and had to exert himself to lift up the column Dooku threw at Anakin and Obi-Wan.If top tier Jedi were continental why didnt they just use that power to solo entire droid armys.Why was General Grievous such a huge threat?

@hittheassasin:lol you probably watched the movies, maybe the clone wars. Also do you know what PIS is?

Your claiming Yoda is continental even though he has trouble lifting up Droid battleships and had to exert himself to lift up the column Dooku threw at Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Also you don't know much about EU. I'll enlighten you on some feats.

Darth Nihilus drained drained entire worlds, that feat alone is continental output of energy. He held his ship together in orbit.

Vitiate Absorbed the energy from a ritual that atomized all life, including 8000 weakened sith lords, on the planet. He then proceeded to repeat the feat, without a Ritual on Ziost. the energy of the Nathema feat, was Moon level + He possessed a planet worth of People, with his telepathy. Vitiate had the energy to perform at Ritual that would of wiped out all life in two Galaxies.

Sidious, after Plagueis's death affected stars in near by star systems. Drained Billions of people Simultaneously.

Revan, tanking the energy from a machine that would of killed all life on Yavin 4. Pulling multiply Meteors from around the space station, which requires Country level energies.

Kyp Durron moving a Black hole....

Darth Plagueis changing an entire planets Climate via just 'being' there.(Continental)

Master thon containing Ambria's ritual(continental)

Starkiller moving a Star Destroyer,(island level) with his TK

Naga sadow causing a Solar Flare with TK(country level)

there are more, but you should get the picture by now.

@slayedigneel: i know some EU things actually.Also nothing you said counters what I said.All of Yodas feats are PIS then?Because Yoda himself never demonstrated anything close to continentel.Vader didnt either.So all you have baseless powerscaling that falls apart when you look at Yodas or Vaders actual feats.Via feats their City Block level at best definetely not Continental.Also none of those feats you showed are Vaders so you have absolutely no basis on which to claim that hes continental.It makes no sense in context anyway.If Yoda or Mace or Anakin were continental they would use the force to pull down all those huge spaceships they fight in.Yet they dont.....Does that make any sense to you?

@azronger: is that aimed at me or him?

@hittheassasin: At the one who thinks moving big rocks puts Revan in large country tier.

@ursaber: I agree with you with everything but two minor points:

1. Sauron is indeed a god. He's not a major god (Vala), but he's still a minor god (Maia). For example, in Greek mythology, Zeus is a major god, like Manwe. Morpheus is a minor god, like Sauron. Morpheus is still a god, just not as powerful. Just like Sauron.

2. Sauron never actually died. After the ring was destroyed, he lost his physical form (as well as the ability to recreate his physical form), but he still lived on as a malicious spirit.

@lukespeedblitz: The Battle of the Five Armies. Sauron killed Gil-Galad just before he killed Elendil.

@frankenmidget: None that I know of. I'd assume he can though, seeing as the Nazgul were able to perform some impressive speed feats during the battle at Dol Guldur.

Sauron is so inconsistent but the OP makes it sound like this is Sauron from the opening scene of LOTR. If this is the case then this isn't a tough fight for Vader. The thing with Sauron and wizards like Gandalf (I forget what the fancy name for them is but basically the gods who are in Middle Earth in their physical and weakened form) is that yes they are gods but they are not remotely as powerful as they are in their natural forms. Full powered Sauron would win but he isn't displayed as very powerful in his physical form in the LOTR movies. I am not a huge Lord of the Rings buff so forgive me if this isn't accurate but this assessment is based on my extent of knowledge.

@necromancer76:

I don't disagree with you. Those are factual points. Bu just like you I'd also like to clarify something.

Maia could be perceived as lesser gods but the way Tolkien wrote his legendarium, he utilized a lot from christianity. Eru is God Supreme, the Valar are second to Eru and were truly higher beings below the highest being. However the Maiar were more akin to angels. They were ageless and had great power but they were not in the same league as the valar. Maia are powerful beings more like angels and spirits but not outright gods. Lesser gods is just a respectful term for all those deities but they could hardly be called gods. Kinda like in Game of Throne, the title Lord is applied to even the poorest or lesser of lords despite their actual power as more of a courtesy.

Sauron bound his soul to the One Ring so he survived Isildur but was completely killed when the One Ring was destroyed.

I also wonder what effects would the One Ring have against Vader should he manage to take it from Sauron's finger with the Force or slice it off with his lightsaber. The One Ring corrupts the minds of those who wield it but Vader is already a dark power, a corrupt lord of darkness. No matter what the One Ring would always seek out its true master but Vader would have more success keeping the ring under his grasp than the other beings in the Lord of the Rings because he is a darkness that can rival Sauron.

@kundelar: You are correct and incorrect. It all depends on the form they choose. For example, Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, etc. were weakened because they chose to be in weak human forms. Gandalf says himself that he hates being old and slow. Sauron took many forms as well. When he was The Lord of Gifts, he had no way to fight because his form could only manipulate his enemies' minds. When he chose to be his Dark Lord form, he was as strong as he wanted to be.

@ursaber: I agree with you on the Angels part. However, once again, Sauron didn't truly die when the Ring was destroyed. He just couldn't recreate his physical form. Also, Vader couldn't use the Ring. No one can, no matter how strong they are. It's his ring. Literally he is the Ring. It's always going to return to his physical form.

@necromancer76:

Alright then point made. Sauron was defeated and destroyed though not permanently because it is stated that he will return during Dagor Dagorath (the Battle of Battles). Then and only then will Sauron be permanently destroyed along with Melkor and all evils.

But couldn't Vader defeat Sauron by taking the ring from him and slicing him to pieces or crushing him with the Force. He would never be able to wield the ring but his vast power and darkness could keep it in check and unlike Isildur and Smeagol, Vader has an indomitable will and is already corrupted.

@ursaber: That's possible. He has to get rid of the Ring and he can't beat hit once. If he dodges all of Sauron's attacks and disposes of the Ring, then yes he may be able to win.

@azronger:

You don't understand physics obviously. People have calculated the energy required for the feat.

@hittheassasin

Also nothing you said counters what I said.

It does, Vader is stronger than most of those people who perform those feats.

All of Yodas feats are PIS then?

No, I was referring to General Grevious not being Tk'd/telepathy, which would literally screw them, Also Revan/Mace/Obi wan etc have canonically defeated armies of Droids/sith etc.

Because Yoda himself never demonstrated anything close to continentel.

Doesn't matter unless you are going to argue that Nihilus or Novel Vitiate is above Yoda. Do you know what potency is? it's the reason why e.g. Ichigo's Getsuguya's don't wipe out countries.

Vader didnt either.So all you have baseless powerscaling that falls apart when you look at Yodas or Vaders actual feats.Via feats their City Block level at best definetely not Continental.

It's not baseless, it's shown by evidence that you obviously can't comprehend.

Also none of those feats you showed are Vaders so you have absolutely no basis on which to claim that hes continental.It makes no sense in context anyway.If Yoda or Mace or Anakin were continental they would use the force to pull down all those huge spaceships they fight in.Yet they dont.....Does that make any sense to you?

Or maybe it's called potency. You can't ignore evidence just because 'you' assume it makes no sense in context. Yeah drop a Spaceship, cause massive damage to the surrounding Area. Also you have to take into account that those starship have their own energy output which keeps them, in the sky(hovering). or when they decide to travel FTL. The point is that it would stupid to assume weaker force user's can perform stronger feats, than Stronger force users.

@lukespeedblitz: @necromancer76: @slayedigneel:https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/venger-and-wrath-amon-vs-emperor-palpatine-and-dar-1655688/

Vader tears Sauron apart.

F in the chat for Vader

@thespartanb345t: @baldur_odinson:https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/venger-and-wrath-amon-vs-emperor-palpatine-and-dar-1655688/

@thespartanb345t: @baldur_odinson: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/venger-and-wrath-amon-vs-emperor-palpatine-and-dar-1655688/

@powerfulavenger: That means nothing to me.