@lucano: No, what you said is that some versions of him are above planetary level, and these enemies he has faced for 45 years, so I think in this case ABC logic works. Also, I know very well how Vincent acts, I already read all of his comics.
who's the most powerful ichigo can beat from dc/marvel?
@princearagorn1 said:
1. Reiatsu has no scientifically defined pattern. Air pressure has, and what is shown is not how it is.
2. The fact that ginjo thought it was a getsuga: they're capable of sensing reiatsu, and if it was absent, he wouldn't say it was a getsuga.
3. And how do you gather that? It didn't look anything near the biggest mountains in existence.. even so, transcendent shows the level of evolution. Not the amount of power.
1. Reiatsu is energy, and any time Ichigo or anyone else's Reiatsu does damage it's A. Visible and B. Acts like an explosion/beam/straight cutting power. Why'd it make such a deep crevice? Because Kubo wanted to make it look cool and vaporzing 2 mountains right after eachother might seem Cliche, plus that would mean Aizen = Ichigo, which is obviously not what was happening in that scene.
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This what Reiatsu looks like. Nothing like this happened in the Manga panels, OR Anime scene.
2. But it was nothing like a getsuga. Ichigo called it the air force. They can sense Reiatsu, but Ichigo's pouring out a ton of that at any given time from his body, how can you differentiate Reiatsu from him vs Reiatsu from his sword? It was meant to be a "Holy crap" moment.
3. Because Gremmy said that it would Crush the Seireitei. And the Seireitei is enormous. It even has the Sogyoku Hill in it. I don't think we need to have a discussion over how huge the Sogyoku hill is. And what do you mean it doesn't show power? The only evolution part was that their arms were fused to their swords. And that they had "evolved" beyond the POWER of a Shinigami and Hollow, A transcendent means that your Reiatsu (the power that is being emitted from your body from your Reiryoku. Which is your energy pool to draw from) is so hugely different from another person that you can't even feel it.
And Rukia could feel Byakuya's Reiatsu after she had been exposed to SekkiSekki. So she had practillay no SP. But she still felt him. So the gap between Aizen and Meteor busting Kenpachi is > the difference between Byakuya and an unseated officer, who can do pretty much nothing. And the difference between Ichigo and Aizen is the difference between Byakuya and an unseated officer, which, again, can do pretty much nothing. So trying to say that Dangai Ichigo = Mountain Buster at full power, but Kenpachi = Seireitei buster is kinda ridiculous.
You've successfully proved yourself an anime wank again.
Our classic Ichigo from anime - with bankai/mask wouldn't go very far, I can see him putting down some of the mid-class heroes from Marvel/DC (above street level, but not city-busting level) such as Iron Man, Aquaman, and others on similar power levels.
HOWEVER.
This is "the most powerful version of Ichigo". So we are counting in:
Vasto Lorde Ichigo - who is a casual city buster. His cero in hellverse covered literally an entire horizon in nuke-sized explosions.
Mugetsu Ichigo - who can survive space/time warping black holes and nukes, and one-shot most powerfu incernations of Aizen:
Restored bankai Ichigo who is also at similar level and dozens of times more powerful then standard ichigo:
And then we have current Ichigo, who is even more powerful then any of the above:
Any of these Ichigo would put down all superheroes from DC or Marvel besides continental level and above. So It would stop on people such as Wonder Woman, Hulk (not WB) and others. But anyone below, would get wrecked. I say the ultimate challenge for Ichigo would be to fight someone on the level of Magneto, Thing or Juggernaut. These are the kind of characters that would give Ichigo trouble but he can still beat them.
@thoromdil said:
What is there to explain? Hulk is the freakin world breaker man. He has actual planet-busting feats. Not to mention, he also has this sick healing factor that puts him even higher in the ranks of planet-busters. Juggernaut is just a strong mutant. Planet-busting feats? He lacks city-busting feats. He is not nearly at Hulk's level.
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Juggs punches are strong enough to cause 8.0 earthquakes (Major damage to buildings, structures likely to be destroyed. Will cause moderate to heavy damage to sturdy or earthquake-resistant buildings. Damaging in large areas. Felt in extremely large regions.)
Has brushed off Mjolnir like it was nothing
Small planet busting attacks like it was nothing
WWH outsmarted him via BFR rather than fight him(would have been a great fight), both of whom seemed evenly matched strength wise, similar to how Thor Bfred Nul, Breaker of Worlds Hulk
Here's an example of Hulk being hit with Mjolnir, which he shakes off but it clearly does more damage to him
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Juggs clearly has better durability than Hulk and has demonstrated much better regeneration than Hulk in the past, Strength seems about equal as both can amp to exetreme levels(which is you wanna argue upper limits Trion>WBH), WWH should be without a doubt smarter than Juggs though and both don't really have a way to put the other down so their fights typically end in stalemates. Juggs does have some low showings which is typically due to power fluctuations from when he's not being a good boy and doing right by his Boss/Power source Cyttorak.
Heres a scan of a pretty pissed off WWH matching strengh with Juggernaut an even pushing him back a little before getting BFRed
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also..... JUGGERNAUT IS NOT A MUTANT
I think Ichigo MIGHT be able to put down Hulk before he gets angry while I'm not so sure about Juggs as he's regenerated from almost complete vaporization before. I think Ichigos most even fight in marvel would be someone like GhostRider but I still see him taking minorities agianst even stronger characters like Kurse
For those using the argument Ichigo used his Reiatsu/Aura to somehow vaporize the rock which might be understandable if you only follow bleach loosely as Aizen even stated to Soifon almost everything Shinigami is a battle of Reiatsu*
This is mostly true, but Aizen's implication in that scene was that one's hax powers could be overpowered. But that Aizen was an illusion and we have no other example of hax powers being overcome with sheer power.
IIRC did'nt Aizen say that Ichigo threw all his Reiatsu away in favor of Brute stats or something to that degree,
Aizen was theorizing that Ichigo somehow converted all of his reiatsu into physical stats, because he couldn't understand how Ichigo manhandled him across the city so effortlessly. But that wasn't the case, because as Ichigo stated later, "I'm stronger than you right now." Which is why Aizen flipped out so bad before Mugetsu, because he finally realized that Ichigo naturally surpassed his Reiatsu level. The best argument for this topic probably occurs in the Fullbring arc
I personally love the Fullbring Arc.
regarding the status of the hill mountain it's hard to ascertain whether the shrubbery at the bottom of the hill mountain are trees or bushes, I personally believe them to be bushes and the hill mountain to be a mere hill,
Possible, though somewhat unlikely. Firstly, it may just be where I live, but I don't find hills to be naturally composed of exposed rock. But multiple characters referred to the object as a mountain. Ichigo did it within the battle itself, and early in the Deicide chapters Tatsuki stated that there was nothing but mountain ranges around Karakura Town if I recall. I'm a bit pressed for time, at the moment, but if you want I can look for the image later. We have to keep in mind that Kubo has never been big on drawing things in scale. If we were to judge Rukia's size from the single panel where Ichigo saved her on Sogyoku hill, Rukia would be 2 ft tall at max. Illustrating mountains in scale on panel can be difficult to do without wasting panels on needless zoom out (which would have the fans rioting harder then they already are)
that being said Ichigo was swinging his sword rather casually and only with one hand which if Kenpachi has taught us anything, makes a huge difference.
Not sure if Casual is even the word for it. Although, I used to make the two handed argument for Dangai Ichigo as well, but upon further inspection I question this, as the blade is merged with Ichigo's hand, I'm not sure if a two handed swing is even possible for him. Once you merge with your zanpakuto to this extent of it's "true form", the two handed thing may be obsolete.
This feat furthermore was just the indirect damage that occurred when Ichigo casually swung his sword, it's not like he was targeting the hill, and the effected portion of the hill that was hit was practically vaporized.
Indeed.
With all this in mind I don't see why Ichigo would'nt be considered a mountain buster,
It hurts my brain as well. I've had and seen this argument more times than I care to know.
and that was before his final form which according to Aizen was on a completely different level.
I miss the Saigo no Getsuga Tenshou... Wish it had come back in the finale.
Now why Aizen would state Ichigo has no Reiatsu in one form only to state something to the degree his Reiatsu is so high I can't even feel it in his next form (if IIRC) leads me to believe he once again cycled his Reiatsu but this time into the form of Reiryoku which would explain his inability to even see pulses afterwords, which brings into question if Ichigo would maintain his previous stat increase from his previous form or not...
All that was is that Dangai Ichigo transcended butterflaizen, which the latter considered impossible, especially in such short time from his perspective. Once Aizen evolved again, he reached a level where he could do some scrap of damage to Ichigo, but then Ichigo unleashed even higher powers and transcended him again. Whether or not Monster Aizen could sense Dangai Ichigo's reiatsu is unclear, as he did injure him to some negligible degree, but he said "I STILL can't sense him". Aizen was wrong about just about everything he said until the very end. The more powerful he became, the more arrogant and blinded he became to the world around him, as we learned from his battle with Urahara. It got so bad that Aizen readily admitted that Dangai Ichigo transcended when he had him by the throat, but claimed that Ichigo had lost that power on no basis whatsoever, just before Ichigo backhanded him into oblivion.
but if we were to highball Ichigo a little bit and ASSUME he could somehow stay in this form for more than one attack with previous feats stat-wise from his other form for the sake of having Ichigo fight in his strongest form
I don't see why he couldn't. The Final Getsuga Tenshou is a form, similar to Golden Frieza or Super Saiyan Blue. (Extremely similar actually, since normal characters can't sense Super Saiyan Blue). Mugetsu is the final attack. After Mugetsu, Ichigo could still flash step for a little while, so I think Mugetsu itself was the all-out attack. People debate whether or not Ichigo could use the Final Getsuga Tenshou and revert without using Mugetsu and keep his powers.
But the Final Getsuga Tenshou may not have even been the apex of his power. In the final arc, he is told that the super reiatsu has given him a level of power that he never even fathomed. Juha showed moon-level reality warping abilities, and the only thing that stopped Ichigo from wrecking Juha's day was the almighty, not his power level. As soon as the Almighty was disregarded, Ichigo cut Juha in half without fuss, and without his Hollow form. If you want my examination on Bleach (especially the high tier transcendent's) abilities, check out my thread:
It's quite old, I may have been a little nooby back then, but I think most of the information should still stand.
lol at people saying Ichigo is barely above street level. The salt is strong. I have yet to be shown reason to believe Superman in new52 is above mountain level in physical destructive power. NOT LIFTING STRENGTH. The narrator himself stated they were punches that could topple mountains. Did the planet shake? Yes. Does shaking the planet require power above mountain destruction? ...Not that I know of. What's harder to do, shake a wall, or break an entire wall in one blow? When we dropped bombs on the moon, it rang for minutes, but I still see a moon in the sky.
I also don't understand everyone's beef with the soul-crush/intangibility thing. Ichigo is a soul. Anything without spiritual energy, or without a huge amount of it, is disintegrated within feet of him. It's not much different from Ghost Rider's invulnerability to anything not Holy in nature. If Superman were to punch Ichigo, his arm should be vaporized on contact similar to how Juha's blade was evaporated on Yamamoto. Especially since Superman is weak to the very energy that Ichigo is comprised of. See Lex Luthor's Ki tower.
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