What if Kakashi had made it on time

What if Kakashi had arrived at the Valley of the End on time, before the battle ended.

Scenario 1: Naruto calms down but Sasuke understands he has to deal with Kakashi in order to go with Orochimaru. Kakashi says "Naruto leave this to me" and fights v2 cursed seal Sasuke. What happens?

Scenario 2: Kakashi wants to stop them both but Naruto and Sasuke are so obsessed with fighting each other they team up against Kakashi so that they can deal with each other later. This is one-tailed Naruto and v2 cursed seal Sasuke vs Kakashi.

How does the battle go?

If this is stomp in favour of Kakashi, add Gamabunta.

If this is stomp in favour of the gennin, add Kamui. Kakashi is gonna use kamui on them if he has to, for, say, severe any of their limbs if necessary.

Kakashi should win round 1 due to superior skill. Round 2 is too overpowering. Kamui might not win it for him either with morals on.

Kakashi could just 'genjutsu, gg' them.

And an argument could be made that Kakashi is much faster since he could cross an arena in the time it took for Neji to attack Hinata, making him enormously faster, as in many, many times faster. Which is impressive since Neji could blitz Kidomaru whenever he got close enough to utilize Gentle Fist (granted he could be inferred to have upped his training after having been inspired by Naruto), and Kidomaru had earlier shown to be faster than Naruto considering he could evade his attempts to tag him from a disadvantageous position. And that's without his curse mark, who Neji was shown to be faster than in taijutsu IIRC (could be wrong on that). Oh yeah, Neji could even keep up well with KN0 Naruto, whereas base Sasuke needed Sharingan to keep up with him (though Naruto had improved in the interim).

Nice argument, so you're implying jounin speed is far above genin speed because Kurenai, Gai and Kakashi stopped Neji before he got to attack Hinata so they travelled more distance than he did before he could even hit his target; I somewhat agree, but each of the 4 of the sound was implied to be chuunin++ level since 2 or 3 jounin were sent to get them and the sound 4 mid-high diffed them; so unless Kurenai, Gai and Kakashi >>> other jounins like Giemma, I think your argument is not 100% accurate.

I say so because you're comparing Neji speed who actually was around as good as Kidomaru who was chuunin++ level or even jounin- level if you want since he (with help of the others) could beat 2-3 jounin, who by powerscaling shouldn't be too far off from Kakashi, Gai or Kurenai in terms of speed.

Although I do believe Kakashi, even pre shippuuden Kakashi, to be jounin++ so it'd be feasible that he outclassed average jounin speed (and by that token, Sasuke, Neji or the sound 4 speed). But Kurenai proved to be as fast as him in that scene and I still believe Kakashi to be several times faster. It's likely that Kakashi is way faster than that showing.

As a matter of fact I think Kakashi's got both rounds but I think he'd need Kamui for the second round and he'd need to put morals aside to an extent. And it'd still be a high-diff fight for him.

Only issue is that the sound 4 lost to genin and beat 2 jonin who were already out of chakra with high diff.(granted raido and genma are high level jonin) but they really dont have the speed or power to beat kakashi. 1. Kakashi knows all their moves 2. He outclasses them in every stat 3. More jutsu and experience. 4. C2 and kn1 were double edge blades meaning they wouldnt be able to go the distance with kakashi and only have a short term. With gamabunta they win until kakashi gets kamui to warp him away

Kakashi curbs in scenario one. The duo is simply not at his level at this point. He wins scenario two with extremely high difficulty (as in all but dead) or even loses 2/10.

Yea, this

Wins Round 1. R2 is arguable but Naruto is restricted to 1 tail, Kakashi should win with difficulty

Kakashi would take both rounds. Round 1 quite easily and round 2 with extremely high diff.

Kakashi can take round 1 with minor diff round 2 is more tricky but kakashi should take this

Kakashi takes Round 1, loses Round 2 since he doesn't have enough chakra at that point.

Kakashi stops them in both rounds. Naruto and Sasuke were nowhere near Jonin level at that point in the series.

Kakashi should indeed take both rounds.

The genin at that point were exceptional genin though. Chuunin+ level if you ask me at least. The Sound 4 defeated 2 jounin with high difficulty but then they got defeated by gennin. Gennin who performed exceptionally well.

I do believe C2 Sasuke and K1 Naruto were jounin level in that fight.

But yeah Kakashi should outperform them even in round 2 with extreme difficulty, possibly adding Kamui in the equation.

@alphaq Do you think Kakashi's genjutsu would work on KN1 Naruto (with the chakra cloak or Kurama kind of helping him out of it) or CS2 Sasuke with sharingan to counter genjutsus?

I don't know tbh.

Most of the Genin though, at that point were likely ready to be Chunin though. It honestly made little sense Shikamaru was the only one promoted at that point, when right there Tsunade could have made them all Chunin and nobody would have batted an eye.

Plus they all nearly died anyway when they fought the Sound 4. If not for medical intervention and in the case of Garra, a Kage-level Nin jumping in to face Kimmi, it's likely they each would have been dead.

To say that they were Jounin level? I'd argue Sasuke had the skill and power to be at least Chunin+ and Naruto still lacked the skills and knowledge to be considered Jounin, but his actual capacity to do damage when pushed was arguably Kage-level or higher, but only with the Nine Tails which he couldn't control. With his Curse Mark, I'd argue Sasuke was probably Jounin level, but Naruto with his Nine-Tails is Kage-level, but he can't keep that up, and without it, he's maybe Chunin.

But even then, Kakashi outpaces them in most stats, is fresh for the fight, more jutsu, more experience, etc. Round 1 is a stomp in his favor, and if he's willing to loosen his morals a bit, he's got Round 2.

Jonin seems like a bit of a stretch to me. They were definitely chunin level. That much is certain, but Kakashi is one of the most elite Jonin in the entire village. Even the Sound 4 didn't want to move on Sasuke while Kakashi was around.

The fact that there is water around really helps Kakashi get a victory here. R1 is easy but R2 would be the a struggle for him

@chaarrrt: Naruto's been genjutsu'd before and Kurama did nothing to help and Sasuke has no resistance feats as of yet. So it probably should IMHO.

True, but maybe K1N Naruto has resistance to genjutsu than base Naruto (when Kurama is sleeping or unwilling to help) doesn't. Also Sasuke has no gen resistance feats just yet but he's got the sharingan and the sharingan was mentioned to "provide" the user with some genjutsu resistance per se + c2 chakra... I might see them dispersing genjutsu if you ask me. But I don't know.

Kakashi wins R1 with ease R2 with very high difficulty.

@chaarrrt: It kinda depends on what we assume Kakashi can do at this stage. By the time of the War he could stalemate Tobi in genjutsu, who could control the Fourth Mizukage, a perfect jin, and should be superior to start of Shippuden Sasuke, who disabled Kurama with genjutsu, I believe it was stated the Tailed Beasts were vulnerable to the Sharingan. So those feats should be well above the duo at this level, it depends on if we accept that he's that good at genjutsu as of Part 1, considering he is never mentioned to have gone through any training or big improvements in that area.

@alphaq Good point, I believe Kakashi should be slightly below Kurenai in terms of genjutsu in Part 1, sensibly superior to her in part 2 (if he indeed managed to compete with Obito who could control the Mizu)