Vegetto Vs. Bills

@ghostrider2: What do you expect me to do, link a video to a movie that isn't on the internet yet?

You'll just have to take my word, maybe we can continue this debate when the movie is released internationally?

Wait, SSJ vegito never turn SSJ3, so what make people so sure that he can? unless you talking about that non cannon Dragonball universe, which I don't know why, it would be in the discussion in the first place

@sheenlantern: I don't believe in 1% they are not that weak.Janemba and Buu stomped them and then Gogeta stomped Janemba and Vegito stomped Buu, with Bills is the same but Vegito needs ssj2.

@sheenlantern: Proof of all percentages? Also, They could've wished for potara earing vs Buu too, but didn't. Proof that Vegeta surpassed Goku (I haven't seen the movie yet)? I'm trying to play some Devil's Advocate here =| let's see how it goes...

@ghostrider2: You can't power scale like that. It would be near impossible to tell the difference between one curb stomp and another. For instance, Radditz and Buu can both kill a human in one hit, but that doesn't mean that Radditz = Buu. That's some hyperbole, but that's the gist of why you can't use the argument of "Buu beats goku, but can't beat Vegito therefore Bills can't beat Vegito". Bills is stronger than Buu as well, and we don't know how much stronger he is. Also, we have to use what we've seen, and that means we can't make any claims about SSj3 Vegito, or even SSj2 Vegito.

@dratini1331: we didn't see full power Vegito either.

@jgames: Gotenks can, why Vegito wouldn't be able?Vegito can go ssj2 and 3.

@ghostrider2: Which is why we have no clue how much stronger he would be. We can estimate him to be roughly 6x stronger as SSj3, but that would still likely put him below or equal to Bills at max. This is also assuming he can become SSj3, which we can't even say is true. It requires a pure heart to become SSj2, and SSj2 to become SSj3. Goten and trunks are both pure good because they're innocent children. Gohan and Goku are also supposedly pure good. Vegeta is not, which is why he wants to use Babidi's power to make him pure evil (or at least that's how many people put it, I'm not sure if I buy that).

Vegito is the combination of Goku (100% good) and Vegeta (who we have no idea how he stacks up now), so we have no idea if he could become a SSj2. Vegeta also cannot become an SSj3, despite sharing memories with Goku post-fusion, which implies that it takes more than just Knowledge to become a SSj3, so we can't assume Vegito can become one (though it seems probable he could).

@dratini1331:

SSJ3 does not requires SSj2. Gotenks reached phase 3 without 2, the same Goten and Trunks never surpassed ssj.

Vegito is capable of reaching SSJ 3, and he did it on the multiverse

@perethorn: Multiverse is FanFic -.- I've actually seen that, and it doesn't matter. Gotenks also had several months of training to do it, Vegito does not. If all it took was knowledge, Vegeta should also be able to become SSj3, but he can't, so there's no reason to think it's just knowledge based. It' more likely something you have to train for, and given time, Vegito could certainly achieve that, but he does not in the confines of DBZ or any canon source as of yet.

Multiverse is not cannon

@ghostrider2 Because Gotenks shows that he can turn into SSJ3, while vegito never did, and potara fusion is different from fusion dance.

@ghostrider2: Goku and Vegeta were still able to fight Buuhan, they were able to land hits and such, granted they were being beaten badly, but it was still a fight.

Not the same thing scenario with Bills.

@jgames: yeah potara is better, Vegito was ssj he can go ssj3 easily, besides Goku knows how.

@perethorn: are you saure about the ability to go ssj3 and skip ssj2. I thought it was that gotenks could go ssj2 but decided to go straight to ssj3 in the fight.

@ghostrider2: See, here's the problem with that statement. Goku does know how, but a fused being shares memories. Vegeta, then, should know how to become a SSj3. Vegeta cannot become an SSj3. Ergo, It requires more than simply "knowing how" to perform an SSj3 transformation. Q.E.D. There is no reason to believe Vegito can, as we see him in DBZ, become a SSj3.

@dratini1331: there is no reason to believe he can't.He did ssj he can go ssj3, he is not evil if we use that transforming theory.Maybe Vegeta will learn how to do it later and the evil theory gets obliterated.I also doubt that theory, both Vegito and Gogeta can go ssj3.

@ghostrider2: I just gave you a massive reason to doubt that Vegito can become a SSj3, and you just ignored it.

Vegito is not evil, but we have no indication of him being pure good. We only know that Vegeta was not pure good, and they fused together. This implies that Vegito should also contain some of vegeta's flaws.

It isn't possible for the theory to be obliterated by Vegeta becoming SSj3 for 2 reasons: 1) it implies that SSj3 does take training, which backs the theory. 2) It wouldn't be in Z, thus it does not relate to the theory.

Prove it. Neither have even gone beyond SSj1 in transformation, and Gogeta usually starts out how he is because of the parameters of the fusion. We have no reason to believe that either can ascend to SSj3 from base form.

@dratini1331: It's all stated, I can't prove anything until the movie hits the internet, sorry.

@dratini1331: I never said from base form, he will go ssj ssj2 and 3.And what if Vegito is pure?We can't ignore these things and agree he can't.

@ghostrider2: We don't know if he is pure, and it's more likely that he isn't.

I'm saying that given what We've seen, we can't say Vegito can go to SSj2 or 3. We can say that it appears that SSj3 requires additional training beyond simply knowing the method, and that Vegeta was not pure during the fusion. These two cast reasonable doubt that Vegito could go up to SSj3. For reference, this is Vegito fresh outta the box as he was when he was created in DBZ, not some suped post training version like in Multiverse. Just making sure we're on the same page with that one.

@sheenlantern: Np, If you find the movie somewhere, could you hit me up with the link. I wanna watch it ^.^

@dratini1331: yes i know it's from Z.

@dratini1331: Wow I thought people on this site were smarter then this. Gotenks went SSJ3 without ever going SSJ3 before and never went SSJ3 unfused even after the fact.. You're trying to argue that Goku, who already can go SSJ3 can't in the fusion? If anything fusion makes it EASIER to go to SSJ3.

@lobothemainman: You're only proof is unsupported assumptions. I'm arguing that it takes more than, "I know how" to do it. Vegeta, who is just as strong as Goku in SSj2, and who knows how to become a SSj3 because of the fusion. Vegeta is unable to become a SSj3. Ergo, SSj3 requires more than just knowledge and power. You also have absolutely no proof to your statement. I already also said that it is likely that Vegito could do it, but we cannot say for sure because he has never shown it and we can assert reasonable doubt to it.

@dratini1331: @dratini1331: LOL What? All the evidence suggests they can. If Goten and Trunks can .and they are far less skilled fighters that never even went SSJ3 before, you're saying Vegito can't? Plus Trunks and Goten learned how to go SSJ3 and never have done it by themselves after that point. Your argument makes no sense.

Please, tell me why Gotenks can go SSJ3 and Vegito can't.

@lobothemainman: My argument makes perfect sense. It's actually basic logic:

Premise 1: Vegeta knows how to ascend to SSj3 because he was fused with Goku.

Premise 2: Vegeta is equal in power to SSj2 goku

Premise 3: Vegeta cannot become a SSj3.

Ergo, SSj3 transformation cannot be related to either of the first two premises. Vegito would have no additional training, where as everyone who has achieved SSj3 has done so through additional training. Gotenks has additional training, Goku has additional training, Vegeta dos not, Vegito does not. Consistent themes and implications. Also, no feats means no proof. That's how Empiricism works.

@dratini1331: What training did Gotenks have to go SSJ3? The only thing they saw was Goku turn into SSJ3, knowledge Vegeta would then have access to after fusing with Goku.

And if your argument is that Vegeta couldn't go SSJ3 after fusion, neither could Goten or Trunks. That alone destroys your flawed argument.

How is this topic still here without being flagged? It was already officially stated that Bills is the most powerful to ever appear in the Manga. Vegitto was in the manga. Bills is more than 100,000x as strong as perfect cell, who claimed to be able to destroy a solar system. Most here consider this a truthful statement. If that is true, and you consider the ortt cloud of our solar system, it would be less than 1 light year in diameter. Bills is a confirmed Galaxy destroyer. Meaning, he is more than 100 THOUSAND times as strong as perfect cell casually.

Vegitto ssj1 or 2 is not 100,000x perfect cell. SSJ4 is not 100,000x perfect cell, nobody in DB-DBGT is 100,000x perfect cell. Bills is. Therefore, Bills makes all forms of Vegitto his...well...you know.

1. Many people love to quote one of the creators of the movie (no one even knows his name). He said Bills was the strongest character ever seen in DBZ history That's not really true. A SSJG Vegito would easily stomp Bills and we've seen Vegito before. You could say he wasn't counting SSJG Vegito, but that also means he wasn't counting SSJ2 or SSJ3.

- So that proves your first part wrong.

2. If Cell's blast was capable of destroying the solar system why in the hell was it so weak when it hit him? That blast was no where near capable. And Super Perfect Cell was at or slightly above SSJ2 levels of power, you're saying SSJ2 has Solar busting powers?

3. Proof that Bills is a confirmed Galaxy destroyer. I've yet to see anything.

Bills is solar system+ based on powerscaling. It was already officially stated that Bills is the most powerful to ever appear in the Manga. no he is not. Whis is the strongest so far. Feats, Calculations & Powerscaling>Statements.

@xlab3000: Funny how you say that, yet Whis's only feat is one-shotting Bills.

the one against buuhan would curbstomp as a ssj3 i believe. it is stated that bills=gogeta ssj2. that would either be buu saga or a hypothetical BoG gogeta. either way, ssj3 vegito would destroy him.

DUMBEST thing I've ever heard anyone say on the entire internet...and with the level of idiocy so common on the internet this statement is really saying something about you.

Since we have not seen all the Ssj transformations Vegito could possibly use we dont know what he's capable of. However at SSJ 1 Vegito is much weaker than Bills.

Bills wins.

Bills

3- You probably haven't seen the movie.

Bills.

@dratini1331:

I watched the movie (admittedly I don't know Japanese and my friend was whispering everything to me as it happened) and yes he was at 1% and then had to go to 70% to beat 100% SSG Goku.

you're replying to a comment that was posted 20 days ago. Bills has no galaxy busting feats. he's solar system+ at best. I do agree Bills>Vegetto. you do realize some statements are false. how is that dumbest statement on the internet.

I say Bills has this one.

Still Vegito

Still Bills

Bills stomps,Vegito is only a fusion of goku and vegeta, while ssjG is a fusion of goku, vegeta, gohan, goten, trunks, and pan's power combined to achive the legendary SSJG. Bills kept up/defeated that form so Vegito is nothing to Bills. So ssjG is >>>> cont. Vegito because he has the power of all the saiyan's. Bills stomps.

billy

comicvine is like my mailbox: I hate when I open it and see a bunch of bills

i dont see where it is said that fuion using potara earings adds the power of wearer....it just generates so much force that is literally unstoppable...bis might be the strongets character in dbz but just becuause vegito cannot be formed again as potara rings r destroyed...you know at the present time anyone who is above fireza can destroy a galaxy...vegeta when coming for earth destroyed the planet with ease...doesnt it make any sense...that even capt ginyu was able to generate a beam strong and concentrated enough that could destroy planets in a row...so just imagine wat a supersaiyan could do and then there comes vegito only god knows how many time stronger he is than a puny supersaiyan...yas puny supersaiyan....and yes he can easily defeat bill....

Bills.

Bills was at 70% when fighting ssjg goku. Goku was at 80%. I wouldn't call that toying with goku at all. Toying with goku is if bills was at like 20% or something lower.

Bills is the strongest character in the dbz/gt universe but he did state that goku made him actually tired

Vegito would require SSJ3 to beat Beers as 70% power of Beers surpassed SSJ Vegito so Full power should be around SSJ2 Vegito or higher.

Vegetto.

Ok if kid buu who was defeated by goku was strong enough to cause a rip in demensions, what do you think ssj3 vegeto would do at full power, the kia's told vegeto ssj1 was enough. So there stands a reason why vegeto wouldnt use his full power. He wasn't trying to destroy the world and if they would of killed buuhon they would of killed their friends. So I think it's safe to say not only could vegeto go level 3 but also the creator wasn't talking about ssj3 vegeto when he says bills is the strongest. Because even bills says whis is stronger than he is. Another thing when bills states he was only using 70% of his power goku also states he was only using 80% of his and that was after his god level subsided and neither had the energy to fight at the end of the movie. Also ssjg goku is not the sum of vegeta gohan trunks ect. It was simply required of the ritual for them to be there. Because when the 4 sayians minus unborn pan gave goku their energy it wasn't enough to go god level do you think pans power made a difference, no her presence was just needed. The fusion dance is nowhere near the power of the potar earings. The dance adds the powers the earings multiply them. So the question is, if vegeto was at full power which could be ssj3 or higher can he stand up to lord bills. I think vegeto would win, but what do you think

Bills.