Ultimate Plan-Off

Batman vs. Black Panther

An entire year of prep for both of them. They have all of their normal resources to bring to bear in their prep and they know the other character as well as that other character's best friend knows them. So BP knows everything that Superman knows about Bats and Bats knows everything Cap knows about BP. They fight in a neutral city and the only tools they can bring with them, they have to carry in. Who wins between the kings of prep-time?

Are you comparing bp(black panther) to bm(batman)? I like them both.

I do not see black panther on the prep level as batman, though im not the expert of bp, he has never cross me as the"ulimate planner/tactcian" as batman is. I would like to know if others see it this way???

If i keep that line of thinking as above, than bm is going to royaly out classes bp, "but my out the box think tends to be harss"

I do not know the freeze point of this metal, nor its flash points etc, but im sure bm would find away to do it?

when bp 1st came here i resreach some things, as always here a quick page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibranium

it gives great insight, and "imo" goes to with the saying people who hide behide superarmor can get and have less room. From reading this bp odds Vibranium go out the drain, if its batman hes facing.

superman does not really know batman that well, i think batman knows more about superman, so i dont see how that info would help bp?

and captian does not know much about bp, but his info will serve bm more than superman info for bp.

I say batman wins. We have done this battle before huh?

Black Panther has never struck you as a master planner or tactician? Go read his bio, thats exactly what he is.

In addition to all his physical strengths, the Black Panther is an intellectual giant. Not only is he recognized for his brilliance by his peers across the seas, he's one of the smartest of his own people, which is impressive considering that his nation holds some of the smartest and people in the world. T'Challa is a scientist, an engineer, an inventor, a weapons designer and a tactical and strategical genius.

Lord Gambler says:

"In addition to all his physical strengths, the Black Panther is an intellectual giant. Not only is he recognized for his brilliance by his peers across the seas, he's one of the smartest of his own people, which is impressive considering that his nation holds some of the smartest and people in the world. T'Challa is a scientist, an engineer, an inventor, a weapons designer and a tactical and strategical genius."

Before Batman ever took on the mantle of being DC's master planner, Black Panther was created to be that in Marvel, so I definitely agree with you Gambler.

You have a good point about the freeze/melting points of Vibranium. This is why I said they would know as much about each other as their closest hero friends do. Cap knows enough about vibranium to get Batman started on devising something to counter BP's armor, while BP would know enough about Batman's normal weapons and armor from what Supes knows. That's the only reason I added that caveat.

Lord Gambler says:

"Black Panther has never struck you as a master planner or tactician? Go read his bio, thats exactly what he is."

Well i have, and we can read many bios from all over the internet.(i did)

Is bp the greatest mind of his world? Batman is considerd the "the world greatest tactican,planner,strategics" in all due respect in dc earth.

That is why i ask the question? Bp is smart but does his name come up as the greatest in marvel.

I understand that some will say its not fair to say or use that, but thats what we do here and use for discussion. If a charcther is stated in his bio,world,comic etc as that"greatest,dangerous,etc" than we should give it the merit its due.

Sync says:

"Lord Gambler says:

"Black Panther has never struck you as a master planner or tactician? Go read his bio, thats exactly what he is."

Well i have, and we can read many bios from all over the internet.(i did) Is bp the greatest mind of his world? Batman is considerd the "the world greatest tactican,planner,strategics" in all due respect in dc earth. That is why i ask the question? Bp is smart but does his name come up as the greatest in marvel. I understand that some will say its not fair to say or use that, but thats what we do here and use for discussion. If a charcther is stated in his bio,world,comic etc as that"greatest,dangerous,etc" than we should give it the merit its due."

I'm not going to say that Black Panther is considered the smartest man in the Marvel Universe, but he does have the resources of the most technologically advanced country at his disposal. His country is one of his normal resources and so even if he is only in the top 100 intellectually, I think having his country behind him should at least even him up with Batman.

Post Deleted.

understood.

I do not know if others use that line of thinking i use if i have to engauge an enemy or whatnot. But those or some of the things that come to mind.

At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibranium

they list alot of important info about vibranium, vibranium cancer?? captian was a key player of that, if he knew that and know batman knows, to me it seems its really over for the whole vibranium thing. And it nulls that advantage bp had in that area.

I agree he(bp) has a country behind him, but does batman not have acess to the world tech and weapons.

question bat uses other people stuff somewhat ie. mr terffiec designs his shealth, which mask batman to eletronics and ir scans and what not, no one knew about this even mr terffic, would bp know about things like that?

Where's Buckshot when ya need him.

If Batman's so smart why is he not President? Black Panther runs the most technologically advance country in the marvel u. I don't know where you got your info but Batman's not the smartest person in the DC, he's in the top 5 smartest HUMANS in the DC

Snake Eyes says:

"If Batman's so smart why is he not President? Black Panther runs the most technologically advance country in the marvel u. I don't know where you got your info but Batman's not the smartest person in the DC, he's in the top 5 smartest HUMANS in the DC"

Who said he wasn't the smartest person in DC? I don't think anyone questioned that he is in the top 5 in DC.

Forever says:

"Snake Eyes says:

"If Batman's so smart why is he not President? Black Panther runs the most technologically advance country in the marvel u. I don't know where you got your info but Batman's not the smartest person in the DC, he's in the top 5 smartest HUMANS in the DC"

Who said he wasn't the smartest person in DC? I don't think anyone questioned that he is in the top 5 in DC."

Dude ya gotta read the posts. Sync's second post says Batman is the smartest person in the DC , Snake is saying he's NOT, he's only in the top five smartest HUMANS.

Post Deleted.

Snake Eyes says:

"If Batman's so smart why is he not President?"

What does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me just because someone is smart, then they get to be President? Have you looked in the Oval Office over the last 30 years? Hello?

No brainer: Batman doesn't want to be President, he wants to rid Gotham of crime. End of story.

Now returning to your regularly scheduled argument.

Lord Gambler says:

"Forever says:

"Snake Eyes says:

"If Batman's so smart why is he not President? Black Panther runs the most technologically advance country in the marvel u. I don't know where you got your info but Batman's not the smartest person in the DC, he's in the top 5 smartest HUMANS in the DC"

Who said he wasn't the smartest person in DC? I don't think anyone questioned that he is in the top 5 in DC."

Dude ya gotta read the posts. Sync's second post says Batman is the smartest person in the DC , Snake is saying he's NOT, he's only in the top five smartest HUMANS."

Sync says:

"Lord Gambler says:

"Black Panther has never struck you as a master planner or tactician? Go read his bio, thats exactly what he is."

Well i have, and we can read many bios from all over the internet.(i did) Is bp the greatest mind of his world? Batman is considerd the "the world greatest tactican,planner,strategics" in all due respect in dc earth. That is why i ask the question? Bp is smart but does his name come up as the greatest in marvel. I understand that some will say its not fair to say or use that, but thats what we do here and use for discussion. If a charcther is stated in his bio,world,comic etc as that"greatest,dangerous,etc" than we should give it the merit its due."

where did i say smartest????

Prodigious Man says:

"Snake Eyes says:

"If Batman's so smart why is he not President?"

What does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me just because someone is smart, then they get to be President? Have you looked in the Oval Office over the last 30 years? Hello? No brainer: Batman doesn't want to be President, he wants to rid Gotham of crime. End of story. *Now returning to your regularly scheduled argument.*"

I think your taking it out of context. I was showing one man is the ruler of a nation, and the other is a common vegalinte, thats what it has to do with it. Batman could do more good as Prez then he can running around with his underwear on the outside of his pants.

Snake Eyes says:

"Prodigious Man says:

"Snake Eyes says:

"If Batman's so smart why is he not President?"

What does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me just because someone is smart, then they get to be President? Have you looked in the Oval Office over the last 30 years? Hello? No brainer: Batman doesn't want to be President, he wants to rid Gotham of crime. End of story. *Now returning to your regularly scheduled argument.*"

I think your taking it out of context. I was showing one man is the ruler of a nation, and the other is a common vegalinte, thats what it has to do with it. Batman could do more good as Prez then he can running around with his underwear on the outside of his pants."

I kinda agree, with all of Batmans resources he could do more good as President then he can other wise.

Well Panther is probably as skilled or nearly as skill as Batman in fighting, but he actaully has enhanced abilities which gives him an edge. Also Panther's resource are much more vast then Batman. I mean Panther could make a armor Panther suit out of Vibranum and I don't know what Batman could do to it. Even if Bat-Man used his Armored Bat-Suit. Panther has this one due to powers and resources.

Nope, because as a vigilante he can move outside the letter of the law and work in the shadows. You think Bats has any problem tapping a phone line or computer to help take out a baddie? In our country, the President tries doing something similar, and when people find out, all hell breaks loose. (Not trying to defend the action, just stating fact.) Plus, again, Bat's main concern in Gotham. He cares about the Earth and all, as is evident by his role in the JLA, but when push comes to shove, Gotham comes first.

You could say that about a whole lot of superheroes Snake Eyes. Sorry I misread your earlier post. I agree that he isn't necessarily the smartest in DC but it shouldn't matter. You don't have to be THE SMARTEST man on the planet to come up with a winning plan. It all depends on the resources you can bring to bear and the things that you can bring that would be unexpected by your opponent.

P-Man, dude your mixing comics with real life. In real life Africa is in rough shape, there leaders arent some noble superhero who uses the nations resources to help his people, they still have slaves over there, I think we should keep it in the comic world and in the comic world Bats as President would be the law, he wouldn't get caught wire tapping phones or bending or breaking the law, he'd be to smooth for that.
Post Edited:2007-05-31 11:24:13

Meh. If you're taking that route, then you destroy nearly everything interesting about Batman. He's the Dark Knight bad@$$ because he works in the shadows and takes risks that otherwise couldn't be taken in the daylight. Even the comic word has to have some connection to reality. Not saying that comic life should be exactly like real life, but if it no longer reflects the actions/reactions/attitudes/expectations etc. of real life people, then it loses its appeal.

However, if you're going to base it completely and only on comic life, then just look at Batman's interaction with the JLA and every other group he's ever been a part of and tell me if that would make a good President. You can't run a country the way he ran the Outsiders, and you can't run a country the way he interacts with the JLA. If he did either thing, he'd either turn into a dictatorial despot, or be an ineffective lame duck President. Either extreme would just be bad. Not saying he doesn't have the "smarts" to be President, he just doesn't have the temperament.

Alright, I'm out of this thread. I have real work to do. You chaps have fun.

Once again we agree to disagree.

I cant stop, Batman is the President of Wayne Enterprises isnt he, theres a board he must agree and make decisions with, he has stock holders he must look after, as Bruce Wayne he would make a good President. Luthor has had teams in the past and they where failures, but as President he did just fine. Just because Bats isnt a team player, doesnt mean he wouldnt be able to compromise as President.

I wasn't going to post because I wasn't sure I felt like getting into another thing over Black Panther, but whatever.

I think something like planning is difficult to quantify so it's harder than predicting a normal VS fight. Batman is a monster when he has time to prepare, but that's largely because (and I've said this before) whoever he's getting ready to fight doesn't know he's coming. People think Batman is overrated because "with prep he can beat anyone", but they forget that the reason he can do it is because the person he's going after generally has no clue what's about to happen to them. I know he can't take anyone and everyone with prep, but being ready for a fight before his opponent even knows there is one gives him a huge advantage and makes it possible for him to go up against people he normally wouldn't, couldn't or shouldn't.

Black Panther has a similar situation. People (in comics) don't see him very much and don't know much about him because he keeps himself hidden, so just like Batman is planning while the enemy is unaware and unprepared, Black Panther has his plans made in secret.

Since this fight has both parties preparing, it would go a little different than most of their normal fights with prep.

If you look at some of Black Panther's planning feats, (I think) they're much more impressive. His plans are so intricate and exact that everything, even his enemy's moves, are controlled by him. The events of whole five-issue arcs are sometimes planned from the very beginning. Pretty much every single arc of his third volume involves him planning things to stop everything that gets thrown against him. It happens in all his books, not just the 3rd volume, but there are just so many instances of it in that one. For example, Enemy of The State 2. The whole thing is planned by Black Panther. It's hard to really get into the planning because there's just so much of it throughout the entire thing. You have to read the story to get the impact of it. Maybe I'll scan the recap where Iron Man explains how BP pwnd his brain. At the end of it though, there's a good example of planning that's easy to explain. Iron Man, one of the smartest guys in Marvel and one of the few who knows what Black Panther can do, reveals that he's built a suit specifically to beat Black Panther. They fight and Black Panther wins anyway. He'd already planned for Tony Stark making a suit to beat him, and had brought what he needed to win. He predicted exactly what Stark would have on his suit and was ready to counteract everything he'd come up with.

Batman, while a great planner, is a better detective. He figures out what's going on then plans to react to it. More often than not, his plans are in response to something. Black Panther's plans are made well in advance for things that are yet to happen (I know Batman sometimes does that, like with the JLA and the whole War Games thing, but that's how all BP's plans are), and when he does use one of his plans, he generally starts the action and controls it from the very beginning, even how the other person reacts. He not only forces his enemy to react, but controls how they'll do it. Even when it looks like he's losing, it's part of his plan. The only time his plans ever come up against trouble is when his own people get in the way because they don't follow his instructions. Other than that, they almost always work, and even when they don't, his plans aren't so tight that he can't improvise.

I think the hero thing hurts Batman more than it helps him. Captain America really doesn't know much about Black Panther. He knows the man and they respect each other, but Cap doesn't know much that Batman could use. Someone like Iron Man would have more usable information on Black Panther than Cap, but IM and BP aren't close friends so that wouldn't help Batman. I think Nightwing or Robin would be Batman's closest hero friend, not Superman, and that would give Black Panther a lot of help.

I don't know who would win, but I would bet on Black Panther.

Lord Gambler says:

"I cant stop, Batman is the President of Wayne Enterprises isnt he, theres a board he must agree and make decisions with, he has stock holders he must look after, as Bruce Wayne he would make a good President. Luthor has had teams in the past and they where failures, but as President he did just fine. Just because Bats isnt a team player, doesnt mean he wouldnt be able to compromise as President."

Ok, I'll give you that one. (I guess I lied about leaving this thread). I still have issue with the idea though, because of the double life Bruce Wayne is forced to live. I don't think he could continue to live it as President. I think Batman has become part of Bruce Wayne's overall psychological makeup. I wonder if he could stand 4 to 8 years of no cape and cowl. But, in the end, this thread really as nothing to do with any of that.

Good stuff there, Buckshot. I have to admit I don't know anywhere near as much about BP as I do Bats, so I'm somewhat undecided. Either way, it would be a pretty cool battle. Imagine not only the physical but intellectual, financial, political, psychological blows the two of them would launch against one another. That would be worthy of the history books.

It might not even come to a physical fight, one of them might be financially ruined before that year of planning is up. No money = no toys.

It would be easier to financially ruin Bats than Panther.

Either way, P-Man it was a good debate, we didnt get into an argument I felt we both came with some good points. And Bucks post was very informative and should help give people a real understanding of both characters.

Buckshot says:

"I think the hero thing hurts Batman more than it helps him. Captain America really doesn't know much about Black Panther. He knows the man and they respect each other, but Cap doesn't know much that Batman could use. Someone like Iron Man would have more usable information on Black Panther than Cap, but IM and BP aren't close friends so that wouldn't help Batman. I think Nightwing or Robin would be Batman's closest hero friend, not Superman, and that would give Black Panther a lot of help. I don't know who would win, but I would bet on Black Panther. "

I thought about making it Nightwing but I couldn't think of anyone close enough to BP and figured that would be way too one-sided. Excellent Post Buckshot. I was on the fence but you've practically convinced me that BP would win.

Prodigious Man says:

"Good stuff there, Buckshot. I have to admit I don't know anywhere near as much about BP as I do Bats, so I'm somewhat undecided. Either way, it would be a pretty cool battle. Imagine not only the physical but intellectual, financial, political, psychological blows the two of them would launch against one another. That would be worthy of the history books. "

I'd love to see that.

Satyrquaze says:

"It might not even come to a physical fight, one of them might be financially ruined before that year of planning is up. No money = no toys.It would be easier to financially ruin Bats than Panther. "

I didn't even think of that. I was looking at the fight when they actually met after a year, not how they could be fighting during that year. It'd be even better if instead of just taking his money, he took his company. T'Challa, CEO of Wayne Corp.

Heh, T'Challa Corp.

Don't assume T'Challa would win that battle either. Bruce would be on the defensive, because he doesn't have the resources to keep up, but he might be able to pull something out of his hat and manuever T'Challa into at least a stalemate. Maybe he'd get nasty and spark the nation's ire against foreign nations economically invading our country.

Tony should have tried that.

Tony should have. I don't think he's portrayed, consistently, as intelligent as Batman is. At least when it comes to tactics and strategies.

Forever says:

"Tony should have. I don't think he's portrayed, consistently, as intelligent as Batman is. At least when it comes to tactics and strategies."

Blame it on the alcohol.

Prodigious Man says:

"Forever says:

"Tony should have. I don't think he's portrayed, consistently, as intelligent as Batman is. At least when it comes to tactics and strategies."

Blame it on the alcohol."

lol. You're definitely right there.

To be fair, Tony did buy up all the shares of T'Challa's company, so it wasn't like he didn't put up a fight.

Yes but Tony is overmatched against T'Challa. His normal armor can't give him the victory, when he comes up with specialized armor he still loses, when he engages in an economic war he loses...

Well it looks like this discussion has come to an end. Thanks for all of the insightful points everyone. This was my first topic so thank you all for contributing.

Good topic.

Thanks Satyr.

I came late to the party, but I have to state I admire the conduct exhibited on this thread. The debate never escalated, or degenerated, into a level of taunts and unfounded declarations about another poster's character.

I also would bet on BP.

Thanks Sling shot. Everyone here was good about having a reasonable debate.

Sling Shot says:

"I came late to the party, but I have to state I admire the conduct exhibited on this thread. The debate never escalated, or degenerated, into a level of taunts and unfounded declarations about another poster's character. I also would bet on BP."

You took the words right out of my mouth... although you said them first.

No fanboys were hurt in the making of this thread......

And that's amazing considering it's about BP and TDK.

Buckshot says:

" I would bet on Black Panther. "

When my mom said I was related to Nostradamus I didn't believe her...until now.

Sorry i miss the good stuff about the whole fighting in between that time of this one year fight?

It comes to me that bruce wayne(batman) company controls many aspect of its market, from house hold to weapons? I think the makes more than some countries.

With bp(Black panther) his country has only one real vaubable resource, virubruim? I do not know if he has others but this is the cash cow. Please let me know if he has others? (human resources is a vauable, and he has smart people?)

I think approach good offer great plots and line of thinking.

But in dc lex luthor is president(another money guy) bruce may team with him for the poltic gain to impose trades taffs and barriers on T'Challa. Or batman may work with the demon head. (this is if dc universe is used)

with bp (T'challa), Maybe he would push the world leaders buttons, and threaten their supply of his cash cow, to acheicve his goals. I do not if bp is use to dealing with the president like batman is in his universe.

has anyone check this webpage and it info about vibranium? To me shows some bad weakness in it that could be exploited?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibranium