TPM Sidious/Maul/ Dooku vs Traya/Kyp Durron/Jacen Solo

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GeorgeWBush

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#1  Edited By GeorgeWBush

*All fighters are bloodlusted

*Morals off

*Battle takes place on Neutral ground

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vs.

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Darth_Necray

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Darth_Necray

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If Jacen then Team 1. Papa Palps can take care of Traya while Maul and Dooku handle the others if Caedus Im unsure because he could give Palps problems.

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TheVivas

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Probably Team 1

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GeorgeWBush

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Mije_101

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lol

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ShootingNova

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TPM Palpatine is too fast for any of these characters to see, except for Jacen depending on the time period. On the other hand, Kyp and especially Traya are more powerful than either of the remaining team 1 members.

It really depends on the iteration of Jacen, because by virtue of the battle forum rules, without specification, we'll just take him at the peak of his unamped power which would be just before he became Darth Caedus. In that case, he might beat Palpatine in an extremely difficult fight, but I see a two-way discussion. I really don't know. With the exception of Palpatine, nobody on the team is just quite powerful enough. If Jacen can keep Palpatine accordingly occupied, Traya's Drain has the capacity to solo, except perhaps for Tyranus (that's debatable in of itself), but he has nothing to withstand her other powers, and he would also lose to Jacen handily.

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#9  Edited By ShootingNova

This is a good fight, though, especially because it has so much discussion potential.

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noah_ouellette

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#10  Edited By noah_ouellette

@darth_necray: I'm not entirely sure if sidious can take traya, emperor vitiate was much stronger then traya and I don't believe sidious was stronger then vitiate, so... I'm not sure between traya and sidious, jacen fights Dooku and I think jacen wins, umm don't really know about kyp and maul

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Darth_Necray

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#11  Edited By Darth_Necray

@noah_ouellette: Maul could take Jacen. Dooku could take Kyp. Look at @shootingnova: respect thread of TPM Sidious. He takes Traya. Vitate is only powerful with his followers.

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Team 2

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TheIrishDoctor

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Since this says TPM Sidious and not insanely powerful EU Sidious who is now disowned as being non-cannon, he really isn't the MVP anymore. Jaden or Traya both have a good shot at him (if this was EU Sidious then Jacen would have to be Darth Caedeus).

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ShootingNova

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I strongly question Maul taking Jacen, especially depending on the time period.

Now, if it's the Jacen illustrated in the OP, that might make sense.

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ShootingNova

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@i_like_swords: This should be something you would like to discuss, as well. You do know all of these characters decently well, except perhaps Jacen and Kyp (I made a respect thread for Kyp, and I told you about Jacen).

It's a bit disappointing to hear people handing out victories so easily but I can't do anything about that. This is certainly a good, if complicated topic.

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@shootingnova: I know Team 1 well enough, and I'm alright with Kyp in terms of power and dueling level. Know virtually nothing about Jacen and his various levels of power along the timeline, and I've sort of forgotten a lot of Traya's feats due to how many there are :p

I think my decision depends on how good a version of Jacen we're using.

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@i_like_swords: I made a thread for both Kyp and Traya, but if you want to know more on Jacen, I remember telling you about him in my Vergere thread. We're probably using LotF Jacen, just before he became Caedus, which isn't much of a disparity, since we have to take them at their primes without external amplifications.

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@shootingnova: So Jacen just prior to becoming Caedus is essentially the same threat level? Probably Team 2.

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@i_like_swords: Certainly on the same level. For the more specific analyses, that's up to everybody to discuss.

It won't be just a decisive team 1 or team 2, though, since this can go so many ways.

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@shootingnova: It's a pretty complicated thread, I'll say that. I think if Kyp can be taken out the picture before Maul, Team 1 can win, and visa versa.

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#22  Edited By ShootingNova

@i_like_swords: Do you see Kyp as the weak link? He's extremely durable and powerful, and with sufficient support, he could be very devastating, but otherwise, I agree, his lightsaber skill is a bit underdeveloped. Of course, Traya's is the worst, but her Force powers are far and away superior to the others minus Sidious and Jacen, and her TK and TP and Drain could be useful factors in the outcome of the fight.

Jacen and Sidious is something of an even split to me, so it will depend on how the other fights go.

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@theirishdoctor: It's still EU Sidious, just at the time of TPM.

I was under the impression that since the new movies were announced, they declared that everything in the EU is now considered a separate universe to the movies, which means that Movie Sidious and EU Sidious are now two totally different entities. Now, I haven't REALLY been following the information about the new movies, so I am not REALLY sure on that one, but I would think that unless the battlemaster said specifically that EU feats count, they shouldn't

But again, haven't really been following the news on that one, so I could be wrong.

Movie Sidious (and Dooku, for that matter) have way less feats, so they should both fall pretty easily to Traya and Jacen. Basically, movie Sidious is roughly equal with Traya, which EU Sidious is slightly stronger than Jacen. At least, that's how I've interpreted it.

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ShootingNova

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@theirishdoctor: If there are EU characters here, it would make sense that the others are also EU.

Also, you claimed that movie Sidious would fall easily to Traya, then claimed that he is roughly equal to Traya?

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#25  Edited By TheIrishDoctor

@shootingnova said:

@theirishdoctor: If there are EU characters here, it would make sense that the others are also EU.

Also, you claimed that movie Sidious would fall easily to Traya, then claimed that he is roughly equal to Traya?

I said she'd have a good shot at him. That is not beating him easily, that means that she has a good chance at beating him, but he also has a good chance at beating her. And EU Sidious is significantly stronger than her.

As for the first part of that, I dunno, I looked at this and saw it as an EU vs movies thread, considering that all three characters from one side are from the movies (It even says from the Movie timeline and uses movie pics for all of them except Maul) and all three characters on the other side are EU exclusive.

Either way, since EU Sidious wasn't specified, and the movie WAS, I'd say EU is out. Again, that's given my understanding of how they are re-cannonizing everything is accurate.

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ShootingNova

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@theirishdoctor: I'm talking about this.

Movie Sidious (and Dooku, for that matter) have way less feats, so they should both fall pretty easily to Traya and Jacen. Basically, movie Sidious is roughly equal with Traya, which EU Sidious is slightly stronger than Jacen. At least, that's how I've interpreted it.

This is a bit contradictory, don't you think?

As for the first part of that, I dunno, I looked at this and saw it as an EU vs movies thread, considering that all three characters from one side are from the movies (It even says from the Movie timeline and uses movie pics for all of them except Maul) and all three characters on the other side are EU exclusive.

Either way, since EU Sidious wasn't specified, and the movie WAS, I'd say EU is out. Again, that's given my understanding of how they are re-cannonizing everything is accurate.

As far as I know, the OP has always accepted the EU, because I've been posting on his threads since forever. TPM is a specification of 32 BBY, not during the film time. Movie TPM Palpatine has no feats anyway, or just about none, so it wouldn't make sense for that version to be used.

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TheIrishDoctor

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I meant Movie Sidious would lose to Jacen while Dooku would lose to Traya.

And if you have experience with him, then I'll accept that. In this case, it's a pretty good and even fight.

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#29  Edited By Penderor

Team 1 for sure.

While Kyp and Jacen can hold against Maul and Dooku, Traya cannot keep up with Sidious and after she dies, Sidious destroys that 2v2 fight.

I actually doubt that Traya is capable of draining Dooku and Maul. She managed to killl 3 Jedi with that, but they are absolutely featless. Maul already displayed that he can hold Force Lightning to some degree and saying that Traya would kill him without problems is at least absurd. Same comes for Dooku, but I dont know what other powers she has lol.

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ShootingNova

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@penderor: They were not featless at all. Kavar casually stunned a five-man group without gesturing for about twenty seconds, and he continually runs away from them over the duration. Vrook placed the Exile in Stasis with a gesture, and the Exile has a number of decent feats at this time period.

Drain =/= Lightning. You cannot deflect Drain with a lightsaber or avoid it with physical movement.

Jacen would beat either Maul or Dooku, not just hold his own.

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GXrevolution96

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Team 2 stomp. Jacen more or less solos this fight. He one shots sidious and blitzes Dooku.

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DarthManhunter

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This is a very tight fight, like Nova and ILS are discussing I feel it really does depend on Traya and Jacen Traya is super powerful and could potentially drain Maul, which Her and Kyp could then team up on Dooku and win while Jacen has been dealing with Sidious for a potential win. But he may require some help from kyp and Traya. Man theres so many different ways this could go. Of course the complete opposite of the scenario i layed out could happen too lol Sidious is just so darn fast. Hmmm have to think about this some more after so more researching of trayas feats again.

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If this pictured Jacen (like id assume it would be) Maul can take him. Rough fight, but Maul would take him. Kyp vs. Dooku is kind of a no brainer. But Sidious is completely able of takimg Traya. He is too fast, even at the time of TPM. Sidious dispatches Traya then helps Maul with Jacen. Dooku can handle Kyp. Team 1.

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ShootingNova

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The idea that Jacen one-shots anybody is ludicrous.

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#35  Edited By Geistalt

Jacen stalls Palpatine, Kyp crushes Dooku, and Traya Force Drains Maul (eventually).

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ShootingNova

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Hmmm... my opinion of Jacen has gone down. I'm assuming this is him right before he becomes Caedus, but even so, Sidious has him beat (and decisively, at that). Kyp and Traya aren't carrying the slack on their best day.

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Sheev beats out Jacen. Kyp and Traya aren't surviving when he comes for them

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Geistalt

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#38  Edited By Geistalt

@shootingnova: I just assumed he had Caedus/Plagueis-tier Force strength; if I'm wrong, Palpatine kills them one by one.

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Traya is a noticeable weak link and TPM Sid takes down Jacen. I'd argue that Kyp can take Dooku or Maul in a good fight individually, but ultimately Team 1 wins.

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@geistalt said:

@shootingnova: I just assumed he had Caedus/Plagueis-tier Force strength; if I'm wrong, Palpatine kills them one by one.

Well Jacen is Caedus, its just that a lot of his feats happen as Caedus and he gets somewhat better

He definitely puts up a fight.

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Geistalt

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#41  Edited By Geistalt

@decaf_wizard: I already knew that; I just assumed, based off of what little I read, that he didn't improve that much.