i would say jason not only is he a total bad ass. but he has a winning sreak over tim in muliple battles. even with tims gear and knowlege jason has street gear that is a match for batmans million dollars gear. so it really comes down to skill and jason has more if you ask me.
At what point in time? Both as Robin? Or as Red Robin and Red Hood? As Red Hood/Red Robin I would say Red Robin, Ra's A Ghul really saw something in him worth killing/using. However, as Robin Jason Todd was the most powerful and agile, being narrowly beaten out by Grayson. But, for both I would point out that Tim is more tactile and thinks out his situations where as Jason seems to dive right in with lots of brute force. Not saying he's slow or untactile, just not as much as Tim.
At what point in time? Both as Robin? Or as Red Robin and Red Hood? As Red Hood/Red Robin I would say Red Robin, Ra's A Ghul really saw something in him worth killing/using. However, as Robin Jason Todd was the most powerful and agile, being narrowly beaten out by Grayson. But, for both I would point out that Tim is more tactile and thinks out his situations where as Jason seems to dive right in with lots of brute force. Not saying he's slow or untactile, just not as much as Tim.
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
That's why he lost both fights against Jason. Seriously man?
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
That's why he lost both fights against Jason. Seriously man?
dude Tim has yet to release his full potential he was giving nightwing a good fight and stalemated him
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
That's why he lost both fights against Jason. Seriously man?
dude Tim has yet to release his full potential he was giving nightwing a good fight and stalemated him
when? Are you talking about when Tim became Red Robin and Dick was just trying to talk to him and Tim was fighting him seriously? Or that time during the return of Ra's Al Ghul when Tim was fighting him seriously and Dick was just talking to him? Either way you slice it Dick wasn't trying to take Tim down, and everyone knows Grayson would destroy Drake in a fight.
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
That's why he lost both fights against Jason. Seriously man?
dude Tim has yet to release his full potential he was giving nightwing a good fight and stalemated him
Mighty full potential there
Also, Jason Todd could stalemate Dick Grayson for an extended period of time. but his anger usually gets to him and he gets sloppy. Not to mention Grayson has more experience. Tim Drake neither has more experience or skill than Jason.
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
That's why he lost both fights against Jason. Seriously man?
dude Tim has yet to release his full potential he was giving nightwing a good fight and stalemated him
Mighty full potential there
Also, Jason Todd could stalemate Dick Grayson for an extended period of time. but his anger usually gets to him and he gets sloppy. Not to mention Grayson has more experience. Tim Drake neither has more experience or skill than Jason.
@darktiger: Dick was in no way trying to take Tim down in that fight. Tim doesn't have the feats to support stalemating Dick. Jason on the other hand has consistently proven to beat Tim, twice, and fight on near ground with Grayson.
@darktiger: Dick was in no way trying to take Tim down in that fight. Tim doesn't have the feats to support stalemating Dick. Jason on the other hand has consistently proven to beat Tim, twice, and fight on near ground with Grayson.
Jason is clearly the better fighter between the two. So far the only member of the Bat-family that can beat him are Bruce and Dick.
Jason has fought with Tim several times in the comics and has beaten him in each one. Why? Because he's more experienced and more aggressive. Tim is the smart one, I'll give him that, but he's the weakest of the first three Robins. Fact. Before he was Robin he was just a real smart kid with average physical condition for his age. However, Dick was a master acrobat before he was Robin and Jason was used to fighting off thugs when he lived on the streets. When Bruce brought Jason in he could already tell that the kid was "powerful". This implied Jason had natural fighting ability.
Tim wins most of his fights using trickery and such. Which is cool, don't get me wrong. However, after his resurrection, Jason as well gained such thinking skills, as well as improved his fighting ability.
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Everyone that says Jason would lose are just being biased. Yeah sure Tim is more likable as a person. But that don't mean anything when it comes to fighting. Jason is faster, stronger, and far more skilled than Tim. If Tim wants to beat Jason, he'll have to think of a plan ahead of time. However, most of the time, Jason will challenge him unexpectedly, thus making Tim rely on his brawns alone. In Battle for the Cowl, Tim made the huge error of challenging Jason head on. Instead of him to think of a plan, Tim was following his gut a bit too much in that arc. Jason on the other hand was very ready for Tim. Once again, Jason beats Tim.
Plus I think it's fair to say that Tim is younger, and less experience.
@Zoom: Whoa time out! Tim does not win. Jason is more powerful than Tim. Tim is just the brains. In every single one of their fights, Jason beats him up. Even in Battle for the Cowl, Tim is the one that challenges Jason head on, he even lands the first hit, and Jason nearly kills him. Tim is a competent foe for sure, but in the end Jason comes out the winner.
This isn't a judge of character, it's a judge of ability. Jason has ability. He's not the strongest, as Bruce and Dick have both taken him down easily, but he's definitely stronger than Tim. Stop being so biased.
Also, Jason wasn't originally meant to be hated by fandom. When he was Robin, DC actually liked the idea of a darker Robin. That's why they created him. They actually thought of him as a badass. Problem is that back then fans didn't like the idea of a bitter Robin. Thats why DC made that poll. Even then they were hoping the fans would vote Jason to live. Then what happened? He was brought back. Why? Because the writers realized the possibilities with his character. The dark twisted story arcs he'd bring. All of that. Under the Hood was a great example of how awesome Jason had become. It is only in a few issues, like that Teen Titans issue, where the writer wanted to ruin Jason and made him a whiny as possible.
But look at Lost Days, Under the Hood, Battle for the Cowl. Those are all great comic plot arcs. Jason is not a lousy character. He's crazy, yes, but that's the point. It's like saying comics would be better if there were no villains or anti-heroes.
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
That's why he lost both fights against Jason. Seriously man?
dude Tim has yet to release his full potential he was giving nightwing a good fight and stalemated him
Mighty full potential there
Also, Jason Todd could stalemate Dick Grayson for an extended period of time. but his anger usually gets to him and he gets sloppy. Not to mention Grayson has more experience. Tim Drake neither has more experience or skill than Jason.
dang change my vote then
To be fair, Jason and Tim were fighting pretty evenly until Jason attacked him from behind. And he also had the heavy cowl on, that may have slowed him down.
Still, Jason wins, the only thing Tim has on him is intelligence.
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
That's why he lost both fights against Jason. Seriously man?
dude Tim has yet to release his full potential he was giving nightwing a good fight and stalemated him
Mighty full potential there
Also, Jason Todd could stalemate Dick Grayson for an extended period of time. but his anger usually gets to him and he gets sloppy. Not to mention Grayson has more experience. Tim Drake neither has more experience or skill than Jason.
dang change my vote then
To be fair, Jason and Tim were fighting pretty evenly until Jason attacked him from behind. And he also had the heavy cowl on, that may have slowed him down.
Still, Jason wins, the only thing Tim has on him is intelligence.
The crowbar was also a pretty douche move against Jason, so that probably startled him for a bit as well, since he was even more crazy and unstable at the events of Battle for the Cowl.
@darktiger: yes, but it would be, and I can't stress this enough, incredibly close.
tim drake wins he got way better,in battle for the cowl he was manhandling jason
We must have not read the same fight. He was in no way manhandling Jason. The only reason he did well against Jason was when he got his hands on a crowbar and Jason still beat him.
dude tim is the better hand to hand combatant,jason is just the better weapon user
That's why he lost both fights against Jason. Seriously man?
dude Tim has yet to release his full potential he was giving nightwing a good fight and stalemated him
Mighty full potential there
Also, Jason Todd could stalemate Dick Grayson for an extended period of time. but his anger usually gets to him and he gets sloppy. Not to mention Grayson has more experience. Tim Drake neither has more experience or skill than Jason.
dang change my vote then
To be fair, Jason and Tim were fighting pretty evenly until Jason attacked him from behind. And he also had the heavy cowl on, that may have slowed him down.
Still, Jason wins, the only thing Tim has on him is intelligence.
The crowbar was also a pretty douche move against Jason, so that probably startled him for a bit as well, since he was even more crazy and unstable at the events of Battle for the Cowl.
Tim takes this one. Since we're going on the Pre N52, Tim as Red Robin had grown to fight in a dirtier way. In Battle for the Cowl, despite Jason pulling out a win by stabbing Tim, Tim was putting the beat down on Todd until the batarang stab. If we were talkin Tim as Robin, then Jason would win. But the adult Tim would utterly destroy Jason
Jason easily wins, in RHATO it states that he trains from some (if not all) of batman's teachers, plus some lethal training. Honestly, he'd mop the floor with Tim, all Tim has done is kick Jason in the nuts. In full combat, Tim would die, he'd probably go into a phone booth and try to call the batcave's home phone.
@wattup: I agree because tim could mess with him phscologicaly and put on a Joker mask or somthing then catch him of guard also in brains tim is probabaly 9/10 10/10 being batman level in brains and Jason is6/10
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