His Matter manipulation doesnt work on organic matter, which doent matter because goku hs defeated matter manipulators before, most notably kid buu. And goku can just dodge the god blast, which is notoriously slow to channel.
His Matter manipulation doesnt work on organic matter, which doent matter because goku hs defeated matter manipulators before, most notably kid buu. And goku can just dodge the god blast, which is notoriously slow to channel.
you're gonna have to elaborate on that
Whats there to elaborate on? Goku is too fast to be hit by a god blast. He dodges energy attack's cable of reaching them moon in a couple of seconds. Every time thor has used the god blast, he chanted and gathered the energy before using it and i doubt Goku is going to wait around for that. Not that he cant just dodge after the fact.
His Matter manipulation doesnt work on organic matter, which doent matter because goku hs defeated matter manipulators before, most notably kid buu. And goku can just dodge the god blast, which is notoriously slow to channel.
you're gonna have to elaborate on that
Whats there to elaborate on? Goku is too fast to be hit by a god blast. He dodges energy attack's cable of reaching them moon in a couple of seconds. Every time thor has used the god blast, he chanted and gathered the energy before using it and i doubt Goku is going to wait around for that. Not that he cant just dodge after the fact.
can you show me when that happened? because i don't know any feat that goku has on par with that, that's basically FTL.
His Matter manipulation doesnt work on organic matter, which doent matter because goku hs defeated matter manipulators before, most notably kid buu. And goku can just dodge the god blast, which is notoriously slow to channel.
you're gonna have to elaborate on that
Whats there to elaborate on? Goku is too fast to be hit by a god blast. He dodges energy attack's cable of reaching them moon in a couple of seconds. Every time thor has used the god blast, he chanted and gathered the energy before using it and i doubt Goku is going to wait around for that. Not that he cant just dodge after the fact.
can you show me when that happened? because i don't know any feat that goku has on par with that, that's basically FTL.
Piccolo and master roshis ki blast were capable of reaching the moon in seconds, and now they're literally thousands of times faster. Piccolo also destroyed the moon pretty much almost instantly yet couldn't tag Freiza. Of course they're ftl, Base form goku traveled to the other side of planet namek in about a second.
His Matter manipulation doesnt work on organic matter, which doent matter because goku hs defeated matter manipulators before, most notably kid buu. And goku can just dodge the god blast, which is notoriously slow to channel.
you're gonna have to elaborate on that
Whats there to elaborate on? Goku is too fast to be hit by a god blast. He dodges energy attack's cable of reaching them moon in a couple of seconds. Every time thor has used the god blast, he chanted and gathered the energy before using it and i doubt Goku is going to wait around for that. Not that he cant just dodge after the fact.
can you show me when that happened? because i don't know any feat that goku has on par with that, that's basically FTL.
Piccolo and master roshis ki blast were capable of reaching the moon in seconds, and now they're literally thousands of times faster. Piccolo also destroyed the moon pretty much almost instantly yet couldn't tag Freiza. Of course they're ftl, Base form goku traveled to the other side of planet namek in about a second.
Gallery
And Thor is particularly adept at blocking energy blast, which we assume travel at the speed of light, it's contradicting his reflexes, but he do it countless of times.
His Matter manipulation doesnt work on organic matter, which doent matter because goku hs defeated matter manipulators before, most notably kid buu. And goku can just dodge the god blast, which is notoriously slow to channel.
you're gonna have to elaborate on that
Whats there to elaborate on? Goku is too fast to be hit by a god blast. He dodges energy attack's cable of reaching them moon in a couple of seconds. Every time thor has used the god blast, he chanted and gathered the energy before using it and i doubt Goku is going to wait around for that. Not that he cant just dodge after the fact.
can you show me when that happened? because i don't know any feat that goku has on par with that, that's basically FTL.
Piccolo and master roshis ki blast were capable of reaching the moon in seconds, and now they're literally thousands of times faster. Piccolo also destroyed the moon pretty much almost instantly yet couldn't tag Freiza. Of course they're ftl, Base form goku traveled to the other side of planet namek in about a second.
Gallery
And Thor is particularly adept at blocking energy blast, which we assume travel at the speed of light, it's contradicting his reflexes, but he do it countless of times.
No he is not, as I've already posted several scans of Thor allot dying from being hit by them, even when he was trying to absorb the blast. Thor has struggled with spider-man and captain america. Quicksilver has blitzed him, and thor resorted to slamming the ground and making him fall instead of trying to hit him. Thor doesn't have Goku's fight speed or reflexes.
His Matter manipulation doesnt work on organic matter, which doent matter because goku hs defeated matter manipulators before, most notably kid buu. And goku can just dodge the god blast, which is notoriously slow to channel.
you're gonna have to elaborate on that
Whats there to elaborate on? Goku is too fast to be hit by a god blast. He dodges energy attack's cable of reaching them moon in a couple of seconds. Every time thor has used the god blast, he chanted and gathered the energy before using it and i doubt Goku is going to wait around for that. Not that he cant just dodge after the fact.
can you show me when that happened? because i don't know any feat that goku has on par with that, that's basically FTL.
Piccolo and master roshis ki blast were capable of reaching the moon in seconds, and now they're literally thousands of times faster. Piccolo also destroyed the moon pretty much almost instantly yet couldn't tag Freiza. Of course they're ftl, Base form goku traveled to the other side of planet namek in about a second.
Gallery
And Thor is particularly adept at blocking energy blast, which we assume travel at the speed of light, it's contradicting his reflexes, but he do it countless of times.
No he is not, as I've already posted several scans of Thor allot dying from being hit by them, even when he was trying to absorb the blast. Thor has struggled with spider-man and captain america. Quicksilver has blitzed him, and thor resorted to slamming the ground and making him fall instead of trying to hit him. Thor doesn't have Goku's fight speed or reflexes.
It doesn't matter if he don't have enough reaction time, the writer makes him capable of reacting to light speed blast as a sole exemption. Sure, he did get hit sometimes, but most of the time he succeeded, and many energy blast were from higher level being that is capable of killing Goku as well, so I'm not surprised.
It doesn't matter if he don't have enough reaction time, the writer makes him capable of reacting to light speed blast as a sole exemption. Sure, he did get hit sometimes, but most of the time he succeeded, and many energy blast were from higher level being that is capable of killing Goku as well, so I'm not surprised.
It does matter, and saying he doesn't is silly. Thor has never been cabale of reacting to light, unless you want to talk about lasers, which even captain america and gambit have dodged, its nothing new with comics, it doesn't mean they have ftl reflexes. Thor is slow, I gave you examples of thor being slower, you havent given me anything but your opinion.
It doesn't matter if he don't have enough reaction time, the writer makes him capable of reacting to light speed blast as a sole exemption. Sure, he did get hit sometimes, but most of the time he succeeded, and many energy blast were from higher level being that is capable of killing Goku as well, so I'm not surprised.
It does matter, and saying he doesn't is silly. Thor has never been cabale of reacting to light, unless you want to talk about lasers, which even captain america and gambit have dodged, its nothing new with comics, it doesn't mean they have ftl reflexes. Thor is slow, I gave you examples of thor being slower, you havent given me anything but your opinion.
I didn't said he have good reflexes, but he can block light, and no matter how contradicting it is, he seems to be capable of doing it for most of the time. It's not just laser by the way. He is capable of reacting to any energy blast but not other things else, that's the way he was. If he can block energy blast, he can block Goku's energy blast.
You think he have absolutely no way of countering speedster? Thor don't need fast reflexes himself to counter when he has so many compensation, that's what allows the Rouges to fight Flash even with most of them barely have peak human reflexes.
Holy crap are people still going on with the "OMERGOD! Gokew" stuff. Wow.
Classic Thor would stomp Goku. Especially in SSJ1. He's tanked more than Goku has to offer at this point in the game.
Outside of being hellafied with Energy attacks, Goku is all but featless and I've said this over 1000 times. Name a single fight Goku every actually won after DBZ started. Without the Dragon balls and friends, Goku is a joke character. He could go SSJ9 for all anyone cares and historyically, he would be bested without the aid of his friends or the all powerful Dragon(some times two of them at a time and up to 5 wishes) if need be.
People talk about the context of feats but blow Goku's so far out of context that its just silly.
Thor would defeat Goku in SSJ1. Classic Thor would abuse him.
It doesn't matter if he don't have enough reaction time, the writer makes him capable of reacting to light speed blast as a sole exemption. Sure, he did get hit sometimes, but most of the time he succeeded, and many energy blast were from higher level being that is capable of killing Goku as well, so I'm not surprised.
It does matter, and saying he doesn't is silly. Thor has never been cabale of reacting to light, unless you want to talk about lasers, which even captain america and gambit have dodged, its nothing new with comics, it doesn't mean they have ftl reflexes. Thor is slow, I gave you examples of thor being slower, you havent given me anything but your opinion.
I didn't said he have good reflexes, but he can block light, and no matter how contradicting it is, he seems to be capable of doing it for most of the time. It's not just laser by the way. He is capable of reacting to any energy blast but not other things else, that's the way he was. If he can block energy blast, he can block Goku's energy blast.
You think he have absolutely no way of countering speedster? Thor don't need fast reflexes himself to counter when he has so many compensation, that's what allows the Rouges to fight Flash even with most of them barely have peak human reflexes.
Whats the good of being able to block light when you're to slow to react to it? He has'nt done it, nor have you shown any proof that he is cable of doing it. Your argument is basically saying all energy moves at light speed, which isn't true.
PIS allows the rogues to fight flash, he doesn't use his full speed most of the time, or he lost his powers, or a plethora of other reasons are used. So do you have any scans showing that thor can keep up with Goku in fight or reaction speed?
It doesn't matter if he don't have enough reaction time, the writer makes him capable of reacting to light speed blast as a sole exemption. Sure, he did get hit sometimes, but most of the time he succeeded, and many energy blast were from higher level being that is capable of killing Goku as well, so I'm not surprised.
It does matter, and saying he doesn't is silly. Thor has never been cabale of reacting to light, unless you want to talk about lasers, which even captain america and gambit have dodged, its nothing new with comics, it doesn't mean they have ftl reflexes. Thor is slow, I gave you examples of thor being slower, you havent given me anything but your opinion.
I didn't said he have good reflexes, but he can block light, and no matter how contradicting it is, he seems to be capable of doing it for most of the time. It's not just laser by the way. He is capable of reacting to any energy blast but not other things else, that's the way he was. If he can block energy blast, he can block Goku's energy blast.
You think he have absolutely no way of countering speedster? Thor don't need fast reflexes himself to counter when he has so many compensation, that's what allows the Rouges to fight Flash even with most of them barely have peak human reflexes.
Whats the good of being able to block light when you're to slow to react to it? He has'nt done it, nor have you shown any proof that he is cable of doing it. Your argument is basically saying all energy moves at light speed, which isn't true.
PIS allows the rogues to fight flash, he doesn't use his full speed most of the time, or he lost his powers, or a plethora of other reasons are used. So do you have any scans showing that thor can keep up with Goku in fight or reaction speed?
Did I ever try to prove that Thor has good reaction time? No, I just want to prove that he can block energy blast, no matter what type. Captain America, Batman, and Gambit technically are wayyy short of necessary reaction time to dodge laser, but they can do it, this logic also applied to Thor.
Not all energy blast travel at the speed of light, but you won't know either if it travel at which speed. But what can be sure is that all energy blast travel very fast, so fast that Thor don't have enough reaction time to catch it, but he did. Thor don't have enough reaction time to even block himself from Bruce Willis' punch, but he can still block energy blast which is faster than any punches.
You want scans? It's everywhere, in almost every Thor comics.
It doesn't matter if he don't have enough reaction time, the writer makes him capable of reacting to light speed blast as a sole exemption. Sure, he did get hit sometimes, but most of the time he succeeded, and many energy blast were from higher level being that is capable of killing Goku as well, so I'm not surprised.
It does matter, and saying he doesn't is silly. Thor has never been cabale of reacting to light, unless you want to talk about lasers, which even captain america and gambit have dodged, its nothing new with comics, it doesn't mean they have ftl reflexes. Thor is slow, I gave you examples of thor being slower, you havent given me anything but your opinion.
I didn't said he have good reflexes, but he can block light, and no matter how contradicting it is, he seems to be capable of doing it for most of the time. It's not just laser by the way. He is capable of reacting to any energy blast but not other things else, that's the way he was. If he can block energy blast, he can block Goku's energy blast.
You think he have absolutely no way of countering speedster? Thor don't need fast reflexes himself to counter when he has so many compensation, that's what allows the Rouges to fight Flash even with most of them barely have peak human reflexes.
Whats the good of being able to block light when you're to slow to react to it? He has'nt done it, nor have you shown any proof that he is cable of doing it. Your argument is basically saying all energy moves at light speed, which isn't true.
PIS allows the rogues to fight flash, he doesn't use his full speed most of the time, or he lost his powers, or a plethora of other reasons are used. So do you have any scans showing that thor can keep up with Goku in fight or reaction speed?
Did I ever try to prove that Thor has good reaction time? No, I just want to prove that he can block energy blast, no matter what type. Captain America, Batman, and Gambit technically are wayyy short of necessary reaction time to dodge laser, but they can do it, this logic also applied to Thor.
Not all energy blast travel at the speed of light, but you won't know either if it travel at which speed. But what can be sure is that all energy blast travel very fast, so fast that Thor don't have enough reaction time to catch it, but he did. Thor don't have enough reaction time to even block himself from Bruce Willis' punch, but he can still block energy blast which is faster than any punches.
You want scans? It's everywhere, in almost every Thor comics.
Honest to god, I have no idea what you're trying to argue. I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to argue. Thor can dodge lasers like batman and captain america, even though you just acknowledged that these instances are PIS, but Thor doing it should be allowed, even though you cant post proof that he has. Now you're saying Thor blocking energy is proof that he can react to light, but admit that not all energy travels at light speed. You contradict yourself by the end of your own sentences. So unless you start providing scans, I dont really see how this conversation can continue.
@The_Young_Wolf: Here is a question: What are you trying to Argue. How does Goku defeat Thor, when he couldn't be cell?
My arguments were clear and concise, you should have been able to understand quite well what my argument is. Thor couldn't defeat Glory, what makes you think he can defeat Goku? Thor couldn't defeat the dark avengers what makes you think he can beat goku? You see that line of reasoning works both ways. Also cell would destroy thor.
?? I asked the question because there was I was not about to read all the mess you two posted with the constant quotes and half gray text. If you want to play the game of ABC then reverse to CBA. All I need to is say "Goku couldn't be Cell and Thor would crush Cell." then pass play back to you.
What has Goku done (outside of really big beams and random feats in non canon movies) that leads you to think that he could defeat Classic Thor?
?? I asked the question because there was I was not about to read all the mess you two posted with the constant quotes and half gray text. If you want to play the game of ABC then reverse to CBA. All I need to is say "Goku couldn't be Cell and Thor would crush Cell." then pass play back to you.
What has Goku done (outside of really big beams and random feats in non canon movies) that leads you to think that he could defeat Classic Thor?
So you asked the question because youwere too lazy to read my arguments, but you expect me to debate with you? Yeah, good luck with that pal.
@The_Young_Wolf: Who's going to debate what now? The truth is, I like reading the goofy Goku vs debates so I can tell people at work the retard stuff people come up with. Hekc no I wasn't about to read all that stuff. I wanted the cliff note. Thought I made that clear.
However, you are not obligated to tell me. I asked for the lolz.
But seriously. You know you want to tell me. Because we all know Thor stomps.
@andy_banerjee_10: well, he could simply IT back to earth + Goku's ki shield should allow him to fight in space awhile and i also saw from the movie trailer that Goku and Billis fought in space
couldn't thor just like teleport him into the sun? its been stated that goku can't breathe in space multiple times
Only by a character with very obvious personal bias. Why do people take Frieza's statement as fact when we have 3 separate instances of a Saiyan, "breathing" in space?
@Laurcus: Mostly because there are several times where Goku has choked or had to hold his breath underwater, Like when he was fighting freeza. Why would he breath in Space but not under water?
Also, he needed a space suit to when his ship got off course and Bluma warned that Gohan and Krillin may not be able to breathe on Namek.
When did Goku or Saiyan's ever breath in space? Minus the flash back scene? I am sure we are not talking about the filler of Vegeta busting that random planet that he never actually went to in the manga. Surely that is not one of the other 2 times you are speaking of.
@Laurcus: Mostly because there are several times where Goku has choked or had to hold his breath underwater, Like when he was fighting freeza. Why would he breath in Space but not under water?
Also, he needed a space suit to when his ship got off course and Bluma warned that Gohan and Krillin may not be able to breathe on Namek.
When did Goku or Saiyan's ever breath in space? Minus the flash back scene? I am sure we are not talking about the filler of Vegeta busting that random planet that he never actually went to in the manga. Surely that is not one of the other 2 times you are speaking of.
Because Toriyama did not understand or did not think about why people can't breathe in space. Frieza and Cell both breathe, which should be biologically pointless if they can survive in space, which they can. Yet they start panting especially hard when they get pressed in battle.
The term "breathe in space" which all his characters use, is fundamentally flawed. Space is a vacuum, there is no air to breathe. It does not in any way conform to typical science to have a character that can breathe in space.
Doesn't change the fact that Bardock, Goku and Vegeta have all been shown surviving in space unaided.
Bardock does it in every version of the flashback scene, including Episode of Bardock.
Vegeta does it in filler when he blows up Arlia.
And Goku does it in Battle of Gods.
And since I know you don't consider filler to be legitimate, let's get Toriyama's opinion on this, since he finally gave one in an interview this week.
"What do you think about the movie after watching it, especially having participated in making it?
Akira Toriyama: I really, really enjoyed participating in the creation of this movie because I didn’t have to draw everything myself. What I did was create the story. (translation note: what he means is, he didn’t have to draw everything like in the manga, in which case he had to draw every panel. He did, however, create the character models in this movie). When I created the original manga, I had to finish everything alone, but if I leave Battle of the Gods up to the staff, then they could create more than I expect. There are a lot of possibilities that the movie could be better than what I originally imagined. The battle scenes were the best and I don’t care that others added something extra to Dragon Ball. The other way around, I’m really glad that Dragon Ball is getting more and more interesting with other people’s ideas even though some fans don’t like other creators interfering. (laughs)."
I believe the bolded shows clear author intent that things not specifically created by him in the manga are still part of the DB universe.
@Laurcus: This really doesn't change anything. If we start talking the "creators" word into the play, why not just use the comic handbooks which say crazy things like how Juggernaut can't be stopped once he's in motion or that thor can battle an many times light speed and for months without becoming tired. We all know that's a lie.
You're using this bit by the creator to justify fillers, which is (for me) not going to work. as well as a movie that hasn't even come out yet. Thor would Break Goku in half based of what writers say he can do though he's never shown it.
Yeah, "Breath in space" is flawed. That is exactly why I mentioned Goku holding his breath under water which tells you that he in fact does need air. Him choking on food says the exact same thing. So you can choose to side with what helps you point and say "But this and that" but at the end of the day this is a horrible inconsistency with much more evidence showing that Goku and most everyone else needs air to breath than they do not. Cell/Freeza being exceptions given that Cell was made from freeza and has that ability.
Freeza mockingly tried holding Goku underwater. Vegeta was had something simular happen when he fought zarbon(sp) and he transformed for the first time. Both Goku and Vegeta where oxygen mask while in the healing tanks. Goku where's a space suit. While thinking under water Oxygen excapes Goku's nose. All these things show that he does need to breath air. Battle of the Gods or not, there is more to suggest that them breathing is space is an error on the part of the writers/animators than the reverse.
@The_Young_Wolf: Because that's exactly what you're doing. My avatar has nothing to do with this. Yours is something I couldn't care less about, yet you're dense beyond belief over Goku. Ok, Thor was wrapped in Glory's hand. Then, Glory blasted him out of its hand. How was he supposed to block it you boring troll? His status means everything. It was the point of his creation. Good, get lost.
You don't even know who Thor is, let alone his in context out of context feats. Don't act like you have a trace of intelligent thought when you've clearly been sniffing glue.
The reason was the one I told. Learn to read.
Ok, I'm about to tell you why you're one of the most pathetic posters I've ever met in my life k? Thor has had 3 different fights with the PF. The first one is from the scans you posted. The 2nd one, Thor hurts it bad and makes it retreat. The 3rd one, Thor knocks it out.
And you have the audacity to be saying I don't know my stuff? You can't even differentiate between 3 separate fights. And yes, KMC is how I got those scans. So what? They still have their power behind them and I've read every comic they're a part of. Fact is, the unreleased comic is Thor slamming a starbrand user. That's a weapon on the level of the infinity gauntlet. And you're busy trying to act like hot shit when in reality, I was posting better argument than your cheap attempts to lowball and troll when I was like 12. You're so far below what you think you are it's depressing.
0. Get this, that was an alternate reality galactus you posted. You don't even know what scans you're posting. Alternate realities do not equal 616 Galactus and therefore are null.
1. You're plot summarizing. Fact is, Thor knocked Galactus off his feet and hurt him with lightning. And another attempt at a strawman proves what a pathetic troll you are by saying that I ever said that Thor could solo the DBZ universe. I said that about the Thanosi. You suck at life.
2. Yeah, I already told you why you're dense beyond belief. But the ownage is above.
3. he did hurt Sutur, which was the point. Why else would he say "I recover!" He held off Surtur with winds so powerful they were affecting a highfather being. My God read your own scans you waste of space.
4. LEARN TO READ. I posted those scans in order to show his absorption abilities. He didn't hurt either of them, why would I post them as power feats? My God, I hope you actually didn't eat paint as a kid because I'd feel bad for picking on you.
It's hardly difficult to counter your cheapl owballing and trolling. Yes, you did compare Goku to pre recton molecule man otherwise you wouldn't have brought him up. I'll do whatever I want, when I want to you, but in this case I didn't do anything so you're trolling again.
Yeah, I obviously know more about the DBZ universe than you do.
Get lost. You're obviously outclassed and you haven't been able to prove a single point other than the one you've been forcing on me by expressing how little comic knowledge you have. Pathetic.
@Bossmonster: Well, if you disagree with Toriyama, you're just wrong. But, fine, I will ignore that point for now.
You though, have ignored my point that Cell and Frieza are shown breathing as well. I agree that Goku needs air, but so does Frieza and Cell. Why would they breathe otherwise? Why would their breathing increase when they're subject to physical strain? For whatever reason, space has repeatedly been shown to ignore this rule, for Cell, Frieza and Saiyans.
There is no evidence to contradict that point. Just Frieza's statement.
Also, don't assume I care about Thor. I'm only arguing/correcting DBZ logic. This thread could be Krillin vs TOAA and I would still correct someone that says Goku can't "breathe" in space.
So are you suggesting that we now go by what the Marvel Creators say about Thor? For this I want a simple yes or not.
Because I never disagree with you about what he said, only stated that taking it into account would be extremely foolish given the things that creators tend to say. So again I'll ask, are we now taking into account what the Marvel creators say about Thor?
What did I ignore about cell/freeza. It was stated in the Manga and anime that they could breath in space, then shown. Also, we don't know what freeza breaths. He can "breath" in space and on earth. He being "out of breath" only suggest that he was low on whatever it is he does breath. That same thing could be found is space in the DBZ universe. While it is far more likely that the writers are just too damn lazy to not remember "oh, these guys don't need air.', One could reasonable suggest that freeza and breath in any environment and his body just "oxidizes" that (I used that word because it's the only one that fits)
Goku on the other hand has shown that he needs something like earths atmosphere as shown when Bluma warned against just stepping on namak and him wearing a space suit. I didn't ignore what you said, I just felt like that everything I just typed out was obvious. Now that I've had to type it, I'll finish on saying Cell/freeza breathing is space say nothing for Goku and friends doing it.
I don't assume anything, I'm only saying asking if we should use what the creators say about Thor. I also mentioned Juggernaut too did I not. Because they are too characters that have some wildly outrageous Bio's that come to mind. You're jumping on the defensive like I'm attacking you or something @Laurcus said:
Why do people take Frieza's statement as fact when we have 3 separate instances of a Saiyan, "breathing" in space?
Feats > idiotic character statement.
I replyed to you because of that question and statement. Toriyama statement is "idiotic" as feats and history show that Goku needs to breath air.
I've given you several reason why people take Frieza's statement as fact. I'm working of your equation of Feats>Idiotic character statments yet somehow you are still on the side of 'But that can" which is weird to me.
I know Thor would butcher Goku. I don't need to prove that. I'd correct anyone saying "Goku can do this or that" when Goku has never really done anything.
@Laurcus: This really doesn't change anything. If we start talking the "creators" word into the play, why not just use the comic handbooks which say crazy things like how Juggernaut can't be stopped once he's in motion or that thor can battle an many times light speed and for months without becoming tired. We all know that's a lie.
1. Show it where did anyone stated Thor can battle FTL, because on his profile he stated to be mach 32, and that is for travel speed.
2. "Why not just use the comic h..." Because that's different. Creator vs random writers. We have the mental capability to separate two things that aren't the same. Do you have too???
So are you suggesting that we now go by what the Marvel Creators say about Thor? For this I want a simple yes or not.
Because I never disagree with you about what he said, only stated that taking it into account would be extremely foolish given the things that creators tend to say. So again I'll ask, are we now taking into account what the Marvel creators say about Thor?
What did I ignore about cell/freeza. It was stated in the Manga and anime that they could breath in space, then shown. Also, we don't know what freeza breaths. He can "breath" in space and on earth. He being "out of breath" only suggest that he was low on whatever it is he does breath. That same thing could be found is space in the DBZ universe. While it is far more likely that the writers are just too damn lazy to not remember "oh, these guys don't need air.', One could reasonable suggest that freeza and breath in any environment and his body just "oxidizes" that (I used that word because it's the only one that fits)
Goku on the other hand has shown that he needs something like earths atmosphere as shown when Bluma warned against just stepping on namak and him wearing a space suit. I didn't ignore what you said, I just felt like that everything I just typed out was obvious. Now that I've had to type it, I'll finish on saying Cell/freeza breathing is space say nothing for Goku and friends doing it.
I don't assume anything, I'm only saying asking if we should use what the creators say about Thor. I also mentioned Juggernaut too did I not. Because they are too characters that have some wildly outrageous Bio's that come to mind. You're jumping on the defensive like I'm attacking you or something @Laurcus said:
Why do people take Frieza's statement as fact when we have 3 separate instances of a Saiyan, "breathing" in space?
Feats > idiotic character statement.
I replyed to you because of that question and statement. Toriyama statement is "idiotic" as feats and history show that Goku needs to breath air.
I've given you several reason why people take Frieza's statement as fact. I'm working of your equation of Feats>Idiotic character statments yet somehow you are still on the side of 'But that can" which is weird to me.
I know Thor would butcher Goku. I don't need to prove that. I'd correct anyone saying "Goku can do this or that" when Goku has never really done anything.
I get the feeling you didn't read my post, as I already answered your question, but I shall state it again. Do whatever you want with Thor, I don't care. If you wish to take author statements about Thor, or any other Marvel character as correct or incorrect it does not matter to me. Is that a satisfactory answer to your question?
Note the part of your post I bolded. You're arguing semantics. By saying that taking it into account is extremely foolish, you're functionally saying that Toriyama is wrong, and that his opinion should not be counted as the ultimate authority on DBZ. I disagree with that, and you will not be able to get me to change my stance on that unless you can get Toriyama himself to tell me I'm wrong.
For reference, this is how I rank things in order of importance and authenticity. Toriyama's opinion > feats > credible character statements > other character statements.
If I came off as defensive I apologize, that was not my intent.
Question: For the sake of clarification, do you count Battle of Gods as canon?
The entire section about Cell and Frieza that I bolded is basically just speculation. While interesting, and something I'd considered, there's no proof.
So are you suggesting that we now go by what the Marvel Creators say about Thor? For this I want a simple yes or not.
Because I never disagree with you about what he said, only stated that taking it into account would be extremely foolish given the things that creators tend to say. So again I'll ask, are we now taking into account what the Marvel creators say about Thor?
What did I ignore about cell/freeza. It was stated in the Manga and anime that they could breath in space, then shown. Also, we don't know what freeza breaths. He can "breath" in space and on earth. He being "out of breath" only suggest that he was low on whatever it is he does breath. That same thing could be found is space in the DBZ universe. While it is far more likely that the writers are just too damn lazy to not remember "oh, these guys don't need air.', One could reasonable suggest that freeza and breath in any environment and his body just "oxidizes" that (I used that word because it's the only one that fits)
Goku on the other hand has shown that he needs something like earths atmosphere as shown when Bluma warned against just stepping on namak and him wearing a space suit. I didn't ignore what you said, I just felt like that everything I just typed out was obvious. Now that I've had to type it, I'll finish on saying Cell/freeza breathing is space say nothing for Goku and friends doing it.
I don't assume anything, I'm only saying asking if we should use what the creators say about Thor. I also mentioned Juggernaut too did I not. Because they are too characters that have some wildly outrageous Bio's that come to mind. You're jumping on the defensive like I'm attacking you or something @Laurcus said:
Why do people take Frieza's statement as fact when we have 3 separate instances of a Saiyan, "breathing" in space?
Feats > idiotic character statement.
I replyed to you because of that question and statement. Toriyama statement is "idiotic" as feats and history show that Goku needs to breath air.
I've given you several reason why people take Frieza's statement as fact. I'm working of your equation of Feats>Idiotic character statments yet somehow you are still on the side of 'But that can" which is weird to me.
I know Thor would butcher Goku. I don't need to prove that. I'd correct anyone saying "Goku can do this or that" when Goku has never really done anything.
I get the feeling you didn't read my post, as I already answered your question, but I shall state it again. Do whatever you want with Thor, I don't care. If you wish to take author statements about Thor, or any other Marvel character as correct or incorrect it does not matter to me. Is that a satisfactory answer to your question?
Note the part of your post I bolded. You're arguing semantics. By saying that taking it into account is extremely foolish, you're functionally saying that Toriyama is wrong, and that his opinion should not be counted as the ultimate authority on DBZ. I disagree with that, and you will not be able to get me to change my stance on that unless you can get Toriyama himself to tell me I'm wrong.
For reference, this is how I rank things in order of importance and authenticity. Toriyama's opinion > feats > credible character statements > other character statements.
If I came off as defensive I apologize, that was not my intent.
Question: For the sake of clarification, do you count Battle of Gods as canon?
The entire section about Cell and Frieza that I bolded is basically just speculation. While interesting, and something I'd considered, there's no proof.
You feel like I'm arguing semantics because you do not realize that all of what I said ties in together. It's not about Thor. If the creator is the ultimate authority than the feats are meaningless, too often the creators preconception of what they wanted the character to be able to do simply don't the story or sell. So if you want to say Goku can breath because the creator says so, do it. But why even have feats listed in your equations at all? But if you don't want to hear that, word. I'm done on that topic.
I'm not offended. I'm just not attacking you. It's is what it is. I don't really understand you point of view but in the end my first few post where an effort to answer your question. I will say, however, you seem to not really even want an answer to it in the first place based of you saying I couldn't change your mind without some drastic showing of the creator. But ok.
I consider BOTG not real until it's released. I have read that it's supposed to be a movie continuation of the manga. If so, it's canon. However, I don't regard it until it's released given that the actual context of the events are unknown. Goku could get this new form and at the end find out that it can never be used again. Or that it was all a dream. Once it's out, I'll be happy to entertain references to it and debate against it. Til then, it's not something I'm going to consider in a legit talk.
Yes, it is totally speculation. I will freely admit that. My point is saying all that is a it is reasonable to argue the point. There is not concrete evidence to the fact, but there are somethings to suggest that it could be true. However, my overall point in that was that Goku being able to breath in space is in the exact same category. There are things to hint it may be possible but nothing (As of yet) to prove that he can and lots of things that suggest that he cannot.
So are you suggesting that we now go by what the Marvel Creators say about Thor? For this I want a simple yes or not.
Because I never disagree with you about what he said, only stated that taking it into account would be extremely foolish given the things that creators tend to say. So again I'll ask, are we now taking into account what the Marvel creators say about Thor?
What did I ignore about cell/freeza. It was stated in the Manga and anime that they could breath in space, then shown. Also, we don't know what freeza breaths. He can "breath" in space and on earth. He being "out of breath" only suggest that he was low on whatever it is he does breath. That same thing could be found is space in the DBZ universe. While it is far more likely that the writers are just too damn lazy to not remember "oh, these guys don't need air.', One could reasonable suggest that freeza and breath in any environment and his body just "oxidizes" that (I used that word because it's the only one that fits)
Goku on the other hand has shown that he needs something like earths atmosphere as shown when Bluma warned against just stepping on namak and him wearing a space suit. I didn't ignore what you said, I just felt like that everything I just typed out was obvious. Now that I've had to type it, I'll finish on saying Cell/freeza breathing is space say nothing for Goku and friends doing it.
I don't assume anything, I'm only saying asking if we should use what the creators say about Thor. I also mentioned Juggernaut too did I not. Because they are too characters that have some wildly outrageous Bio's that come to mind. You're jumping on the defensive like I'm attacking you or something @Laurcus said:
Why do people take Frieza's statement as fact when we have 3 separate instances of a Saiyan, "breathing" in space?
Feats > idiotic character statement.
I replyed to you because of that question and statement. Toriyama statement is "idiotic" as feats and history show that Goku needs to breath air.
I've given you several reason why people take Frieza's statement as fact. I'm working of your equation of Feats>Idiotic character statments yet somehow you are still on the side of 'But that can" which is weird to me.
I know Thor would butcher Goku. I don't need to prove that. I'd correct anyone saying "Goku can do this or that" when Goku has never really done anything.
I get the feeling you didn't read my post, as I already answered your question, but I shall state it again. Do whatever you want with Thor, I don't care. If you wish to take author statements about Thor, or any other Marvel character as correct or incorrect it does not matter to me. Is that a satisfactory answer to your question?
Note the part of your post I bolded. You're arguing semantics. By saying that taking it into account is extremely foolish, you're functionally saying that Toriyama is wrong, and that his opinion should not be counted as the ultimate authority on DBZ. I disagree with that, and you will not be able to get me to change my stance on that unless you can get Toriyama himself to tell me I'm wrong.
For reference, this is how I rank things in order of importance and authenticity. Toriyama's opinion > feats > credible character statements > other character statements.
If I came off as defensive I apologize, that was not my intent.
Question: For the sake of clarification, do you count Battle of Gods as canon?
The entire section about Cell and Frieza that I bolded is basically just speculation. While interesting, and something I'd considered, there's no proof.
You feel like I'm arguing semantics because you do not realize that all of what I said ties in together. It's not about Thor. If the creator is the ultimate authority than the feats are meaningless, too often the creators preconception of what they wanted the character to be able to do simply don't the story or sell. So if you want to say Goku can breath because the creator says so, do it. But why even have feats listed in your equations at all? But if you don't want to hear that, word. I'm done on that topic.
I'm not offended. I'm just not attacking you. It's is what it is. I don't really understand you point of view but in the end my first few post where an effort to answer your question. I will say, however, you seem to not really even want an answer to it in the first place based of you saying I couldn't change your mind without some drastic showing of the creator. But ok.
I consider BOTG not real until it's released. I have read that it's supposed to be a movie continuation of the manga. If so, it's canon. However, I don't regard it until it's released given that the actual context of the events are unknown. Goku could get this new form and at the end find out that it can never be used again. Or that it was all a dream. Once it's out, I'll be happy to entertain references to it and debate against it. Til then, it's not something I'm going to consider in a legit talk.
Yes, it is totally speculation. I will freely admit that. My point is saying all that is a it is reasonable to argue the point. There is not concrete evidence to the fact, but there are somethings to suggest that it could be true. However, my overall point in that was that Goku being able to breath in space is in the exact same category. There are things to hint it may be possible but nothing (As of yet) to prove that he can and lots of things that suggest that he cannot.
Well, for the record, Battle of Gods has been out for 6 days in select theaters. Probably 7 days actually, I don't know my timezones very well.
The bolded is not necessarily true. My point of view is a very simple one. What the creator says is word of god, period. If word of god contradicts a feat, (or in this case, legitimizes it) then that feat is invalid. Otherwise, use feats. I don't really debate on this subject when it comes to Marvel, because it's really not the same thing. There are many authors not only for Marvel in general, but for each comic book character. In the case of Marvel, an author's opinion or statement could be contradicted by another. And even if it's not, it may not be applicable to another author's work.
In the case of DBZ, Toriyama is the original creator and nothing is done in the story against his wishes. He may accept ideas and input from other people, like, for example, when Ooishi Naho wrote Episode of Bardock, she wrote it because Toriyama wanted her to. In many ways, Toriyama is DBZ, unlike an individual author for Thor, who likely has very little say in the opinions and policies of Marvel as a whole.
for odin... really? come on... goku fans i love goku, but in what universe goku could be able to defeat thor?, you put goku out of his ligue, thor by a massacre, thor resisted the blast of many celestials, he broke uru chains with his bare hands, with a blow of mjolnir he destroyed the armor of exitar, with the shockwaves of his blows destroyed planets (battle with gorr), mjolnirless thor is able to move faster than the eye of heimdell can see (heimdell can see everything), warriorborn (eons of more expirience in combat skills than goku), godblast... well what can i say that we dont know about that, none blast of goku can be compared to that, even the dragon fist or henkidama could be able to make thor doubts of himself, the only real skill that goku can use at his favor is his speed but he cant win this match is very unfair.
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