Heart of Infinity says:
"The_Creator says:"The DC wins this battle easily, for basically all the reasons that Superman or Shazam trump Thor or Hulk. Yep, the weakest links are Ironmna and Steel in their respective teams. In this case, Ironman should be able to beat Steel through a variety of means (seeking control of the computer in the Steel armour, emp etc). "
I dont think superman and shazam trump hulk and thor Supes vs Hulk is a debate on other forums Thor with the new odin powers can take out mostly anyone... regular thor is up for debate if he can beat supes or not Thor > then Shazam Shazam's lightning magic is no match for Thors. He probably won't even need to use Mjolnir against shazaam And i cant say for sure but the hulk from wwh seems to be a force of nature and I think he could give supes a run for is money"
I am drawing from a previous posting of mine to save some typing time.
I am using Classic Thor, as that is the natural default level since it was the longest used form. This falls in to line with only Capt Marvel being used, instead of the more powerful form of Lord Marvel.
Lets look at at all of their abilities.
Superstrength:
Superman: Able to lift at least 2,500,000 tonnes (more likely to be 4 - 5 times that now with all the power boosts he has had since his relaunch in the 1980's - like the Eradicator incident after Supes return from the dead and when training for the war against Imperix).
Capt Marvel: Pretty much accepted to be almost as strong or as strong as Superman.
Thor (Classic): Officially able to lift just over 100 tonnes, we have seen Thor perform feats of strength like lifting the Midgard Serpents tail or lifting and throwing the Odin Sword. To perform these tasks I would say he had to be able to lift around 70,000 tonnes.
Hulk: Officially calm strength levels of 85 tonnes (so maybe 50,000 tonnes as relating to Thor). However when he gets angry, this can increase steadily to an unknown limit. The rate of strength increase is proportional to his rise in anger. I would imagine that he would double his strength after 3 minutes of constant fighting at the top end of his abilities. As you can see, the 2 DC heroes would appear to be significantly stronger, by a factor of at least 36 times, at the start of the fight. If the 3 minute strength doubling is correct for the Hulk, it would take him 18 minutes to exceed the strength of the Supes or Capt (if they can only lift 2,5 million tonnes). 18 minutes is a long time in a fight, especially against these 2 as they can employ superspeed.
Super Speed: (The ability to react and undertake actions like a superspeedster i.e. go in to bullet time so people appear like statues, bullets in travel are moving forward at a snails pace etc.)
Superman: He can react and take actions like a 'slow' Flash. He can travel in bullet time and perform, think and react at hundreds of times faster than a normal man can. This can enable him to move so swiftly as to be unseen by the naked eye, dodge projectiles and even energy beams. It also permits him to attack dozens of times a second if required.
Capt Marvel: He has the speed of Hermes and like Superman can react accordingly.
Thor: He lacks this element of Super speed, possessing reflexes and agility beyond peak human but perhaps around 4 - 5 times that of a normal human.
Hulk: He is not even peak human in his reflex speed, being even slower than the Thing (as per Official Marvel figures - OHOTMU). So maybe 50% that of peak human.
Thus, Thor and Hulk he would be incapable of reacting to or hitting Supes or Capt Marvel if both of them attacked at Super speed. Any action they would take can be simply avoided by the 2 attacking at superspeed as they have all the time in the world to react to it.
Invulnerability:
Superman: Has proven capable of resisting the strongest blows of people of similar strength (Wonder Woman, Capt Marvel)without significant damage. He has proven capable of surviving a 10 megatonne Nuke. This means that he withstood a device easily capable of destroying Secondary Adamantium. A 10 megatonne Nuke generates sufficient heat to reach well over 500,000 degs Fahrenhite and a pressure wave that is difficult to imagine let alone calculate. Yes he does have a weakness to magic and these weapons can hurt/kill him but he has been attacked with magical weapons in the past and they have failed to instantly kill him - wound and injure him - certainly.
Capt Marvel: Has demonstrated durability that is on par with that of Superman but without any limitation on magic. Thor: Who has been made to bleed by individuals and forces weaker than himself ( for instance the Wrecking Crew). I admit that he is very durable but that this level of durability is sufficient against beings weaker than him and up to those of similar strength. Also Thor is not particularly resistant to energy attacks (like fire and heat) and has been burnt/wounded in the past. Imagine what a heat vision laser might do.
Hulk: Has proven capable of resisting vast temperature extremes and blows from beings as strong as himself, with little or no damage. However, I don't think that it would suffice against blows from a being 36+ times stronger.
Flight Speed:
Superman: Has been shown to fly at speeds of at least millions of mph. Due to his superspeed, he can also accelerate to these speeds very rapidly.
Capt Marvel: Can fly at speeds rivalling the Flashes running speed (he does have the speed of Hermes) so upto light speed. As he too also possesses 'Super speed' he can accelerate extremely rapidly to this velocity.
Thor: Can also apparently fly at very high speeds although i question if he can reach light speed (we have seen Thor throw his hammer and then have it accelerate to light speed - but not in flight). We do however now know that he should be able to enter Hyperspace and fly faster than Light speed, but I don't think that this would help in a fight. Hulk: He can leap but that's it.
Endurance:
Superman, Capt Marvel and Thor have the advantage, effectively being able to fight for months if needed.
Hulk can at least last for a couple of weeks.
Overall, not a decicing factor.
Fighting Ability:
Superman and Capt Marvel are far less talented that Thor in hand to hand combat.
The Hulk has a beastily cunning and skill in combat that I think elevates him above Supes and Capt.
Others:
Weapons: Thor has Mjolnir - so he can throw it, use it for flight, project lightning bolts from it, summon/dismiss storms, absorb energy and use it to travel between dimensions.
Heat Vision: Superman can project beams of heat, that they can act like lasers and have proved capable of cutting (and vapourising) through any man made metallic alloy or non-metallic (like ceramics). Thus they should be able to operate at at least 25,000 deg Fahrenhite.
Wisdom of Solomon: Capt has this ability, that is used far too infrequently as it can help him recognise avenues of action to take to achieve victory - or avoid defeat.
Healing Factor: Hulk has a very quick healing factor but this can be overcome by significant damage (neck snapped by the Maestro) and will need a longer recovery time.
Sorry If I missed anything.
From every thing noted above, I still don't see Thor and Hulk overcoming these 2. Why ?
Superman and Capt Marvel are massively stronger at the start of the fight and appear to be more durable that the other 2, but the main point to look at is super speed. They can move and attack quicker than the eye can follow. They could have punched Thor and Hulk and moved off before the Marvel team even saw them coming. How can Thor, let alone the Hulk hit, lightning bolt or throw his hammer at an opponent who can move faster than his eye can see. I know the argument about Thor throwing his hammer at the speed of light. When he initially launches it, it would appear to be travelling a lot slower. Thor twirls the hammer and releases it and it may be travelling initially at supersonic speed but after he releases it he commands it to accelerate to light speed. His attack speed is still based on his refelxes and reaction speed - like I said maybe 5 times that of a normal man. How does Thor see and keep track of an opponent, let alone attack opponents like Superman and Cap Marvel who can move and attack faster than Hulk or Thor can see or follow.
The fight is won here on speed and power and the DC pair have it.
Post Edited:2007-09-17 13:47:21
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