This line-up of Avengers vs X-Men

@ThunderGodsWrath: No what I am saying is that Eric Masterson is the one in this fight in the op. Your scan was the real Thor.

Avengers

@charlieboy said:

@ThunderGodsWrath: No what I am saying is that Eric Masterson is the one in this fight in the op. Your scan was the real Thor.

Oh...lol

@ThunderGodsWrath: No big. Misunderstandings happen.

@Madame_Blossom said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Madame_Blossom said:

@LordOfAllHumans: I could of sworn she battled him telepathically. Telepath, Psylocke, has been known to effect physical objects with her telepathically.

I didn't say she beat Rachel due to power, I only mentioned she bested Rachel.

What physical objects has she affected? He does mention the pain tearing her consciousness or something like that, but they still seemed to be attacking with physical powers, to much physical destruction to be telepathic or I would guess the Grey home and most of the neighborhood would have been leveled from Dark Phoenix and Xaviers telepathic duel. She questions him about the nature of his power being psionic, my guess is she would have no need to deduce or mention this if they were fighting telepathically, it would be obvious.

I only mentioned it because you used Seris and Exodus in the post which would suggest you were comparing power level, forgive my assumption.

She affected cerebro during the morlock massacre. I mean look at the instance between Phoenix and Emma, the building collapse its been argued that it was either her telepathy or her latent telekinetic ability but it has never been proven, we can only theorize. Plus the whole Dark Phoenix issue mentioned may be just a rare occasion for telepath to affect the physical reality. Psionic encompass a whole variety, telekinesis, telepathy, ect. Because most of those can be replicated by cosmic energy, magic, ect.

No please its okay and thank you for correcting me. It has been a while since I read the issue, all I remember was Crystal's feat and Scarlet Witch as well as Jean not being able to take on Exodus..... my memory of the issue is faint lol

IIRC Betsy during the MM was pre-Siege Perilous and stll possessed her psycho blast that could affect matter, she had an array of psi powers which included her telepathy, precognition and blast. It could have been the Phoenix Force that caused the building to collapse which makes more sense considering the two combatants. Emma used her remaining strength and struck, then there is an explosion. As many times as I have read that issue I never believed that Emmas blast is what directly destroyed the building. I always thought her attack affected Phoenix and it was Phoenix that brought the building down as a result. Back in the days Marvel was always mixing up psi powers like telepathy and telekinesis, this is what allowed Xavier to psi blast sentinels and physically damage them.

Psionic does encompasse all those abilities but there are still distinctions made. Emma can channel ambient psi energy to create her telepathic lightning feat, but she can't use her psionic power to duplicate the raw psionic energy Chamber naturally channels to power an extradimensional device in Fairy land, and we know his power can cause explosions. She also needed a living body to ground it, doesn't seem like this ability (even it was used against Phoenix) can work on inorganic matter and cause explosions.

@charlieboy said:

@ThunderGodsWrath: No big. Misunderstandings happen.

Yep

@charlieboy: Also is it me, or does Scarlett Witch seem more powerful than before?

@ThunderGodsWrath: She is less powerful than she was in House of M. She had some pretty good feats in the Avengers series before House of M but I think an argument could be made that she is more powerful now that she was pre House of M.

@charlieboy said:

@ThunderGodsWrath: She is less powerful than she was in House of M. She had some pretty good feats in the Avengers series before House of M but I think an argument could be made that she is more powerful now that she was pre House of M.

Maybe she is just more focused and in control now knowing the true nature of her mutant power is acutally reality warping, something that Morgan le Fay seemed to be aware of years ago.

@LordOfAllHumans: True Morgan Le Fey did use her as the power source for that spell and she brought Wonder Man back from the dead or pulled him back together anyway.

Avengers both rounds. herc and thor are too much here. I could see colossus being a problem though

X-Men both rounds. In fact Rachel could solo both rounds. Rachel uses TP and wipes out heavy weights first while her team blocks them and then wipes the others as well. For the other match she does the same thing and lets Wolverine slice and dice them afterwards.

Avengers

The real problem would be Sersi not Eric Masterson or Hercules. But I still see the X-Men taking it mostly due to Rachel.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@charlieboy said:

@ThunderGodsWrath: She is less powerful than she was in House of M. She had some pretty good feats in the Avengers series before House of M but I think an argument could be made that she is more powerful now that she was pre House of M.

Maybe she is just more focused and in control now knowing the true nature of her mutant power is acutally reality warping, something that Morgan le Fay seemed to be aware of years ago.

I see

@charlieboy said:

@ThunderGodsWrath: She is less powerful than she was in House of M. She had some pretty good feats in the Avengers series before House of M but I think an argument could be made that she is more powerful now that she was pre House of M.

Oh

Sersi is an incredibly powerful telepath, Sersi has energy projection, crazy healing factor and crazy strength

and she could probably transmute Storm, Wolverine and Nightcrawler into fishsticks

.

.

"

.

@Charlie_Jade:This fight really comes down to Sersi and Rachel. What are Sersi's telepathic feats?

Rachel did exactly what Emma couldn't do without getting Feedback, unlike Emma Rachel was a avatar of the full phoenix force as well at one point where as Emma, possessed by the Phoenix was shown twice not to be able to handle the power.

@charlieboy said:

@Charlie_Jade:This fight really comes down to Sersi and Rachel. What are Sersi's telepathic feats?

Seris is certainly the big gun with the most versatility. Nightcrawler could be a problem for her too, I think people forget that him making multiple jumps with people to take enemies down, it'll take him out too, but also leave Sersi open to be absorbed by Rogue

@LordOfAllHumans: I agree that Rogue and Nightcrawler are big players in this fight too. Rogue's absorbing powers are beast!

I think x men now

@charlieboy said:

@LordOfAllHumans: I agree that Rogue and Nightcrawler are big players in this fight too. Rogue's absorbing powers are beast!

RIght and we are using Rogue with Ms. Marvel powers, at the her very best (or with telepathic assistance) she can bring her little used 7th sense into play. In a perfect scenario Storm or Wolverine will have Rachel link the team the way X-teams with telepaths usually do, this is done so that they are all aware of what the others perceive, a little creative use of telepathy could technically give them all a taste of Rogues 7th sense, allowing them to predict the moves of the Avengers team.

X-Men get stomped.

@Blacharrt1: Yeah, but Sersi is still has very good TP/TK, is a 20 tonner, with a healing factor way above Wolverine, can shoot cosmic blasts from her eyes and hands, she can teleport herself and others though it causes her great pain, and can transmute matter. One slip and Rachel is dead and Sersi can take a lot of punishment to get that one shot in.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Madame_Blossom said:

It doesn't matter if they're elite or not, she still doesn't compare to other telepaths, which is why I called her average, she is pale against her Earth resident telepath. So if a lesser skilled telepath compared to those on Earth gives Rachel a problem then Sersi herself can defiantly hold her own against her, I mean given with her immense power and telepathy. Yes we are all aware of that, I was mentioning that Oracle is considerably weaker than them, if she manages to block Rachel then why not the cuckoos, being that Rachel is omega level.

I'm just trying to figure out why you mark her as considerably weaker or less skilled? Where did you get this from? Did Imiss something? Being part of an elite Imperial Guard would suggest she is a powerful telepath in her own right. king is not gonna have average warriors as his personal guard. Are there better warriors? Yes, but that doesn't make her average by comparison. I can only guess it was PIS, CIS or WIS, considering Emma can overpower 1000 Cuckoos and Rachel is more powerful than Emma.

Telepaths can be blocked by non-telepaths or weaker telepaths with less skill. Emma didn't even know the M twins, when they were M, had telepathy (until they used it to contact her) and when she tried entering their mind was unable to, and she is leagues above them. They also were unaffected by Emma mind controlling Gen X during Onslaught and dragged her to the astral plane to explain her actions.

She's nothing impressive from what I've seen. Being place in an elite team doesn't qualify in my book. So Oracle is considerably weaker than the other three.

For the most part a stronger telepath is seen over powering the weaker telepath. I'm guessing that instance with M would be PIS considering that Emma has affected a person as strong as Emplate I believe and telepathically paralyzing M... if I could remember correctly....

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Madame_Blossom said:

She affected cerebro during the morlock massacre. I mean look at the instance between Phoenix and Emma, the building collapse its been argued that it was either her telepathy or her latent telekinetic ability but it has never been proven, we can only theorize. Plus the whole Dark Phoenix issue mentioned may be just a rare occasion for telepath to affect the physical reality. Psionic encompass a whole variety, telekinesis, telepathy, ect. Because most of those can be replicated by cosmic energy, magic, ect.

No please its okay and thank you for correcting me. It has been a while since I read the issue, all I remember was Crystal's feat and Scarlet Witch as well as Jean not being able to take on Exodus..... my memory of the issue is faint lol

IIRC Betsy during the MM was pre-Siege Perilous and stll possessed her psycho blast that could affect matter, she had an array of psi powers which included her telepathy, precognition and blast. It could have been the Phoenix Force that caused the building to collapse which makes more sense considering the two combatants. Emma used her remaining strength and struck, then there is an explosion. As many times as I have read that issue I never believed that Emmas blast is what directly destroyed the building. I always thought her attack affected Phoenix and it was Phoenix that brought the building down as a result. Back in the days Marvel was always mixing up psi powers like telepathy and telekinesis, this is what allowed Xavier to psi blast sentinels and physically damage them.

Psionic does encompasse all those abilities but there are still distinctions made. Emma can channel ambient psi energy to create her telepathic lightning feat, but she can't use her psionic power to duplicate the raw psionic energy Chamber naturally channels to power an extradimensional device in Fairy land, and we know his power can cause explosions. She also needed a living body to ground it, doesn't seem like this ability (even it was used against Phoenix) can work on inorganic matter and cause explosions.

Agree. But I remember the caption saying her last attempt or so or something along those line. If it affected Phoenix then it would of already happened, Phoenix was testing Emma, if Emma did manage to affect Phoenix then it would of already been present since Emma was giving it her all. I see what your saying, how they referred "psychic bolts" or "psi-blast" but it being vague.

There are those given with rare talents. Like Jean who was blessed with duo psionic ability that was not common until later on.

@charlieboy: Thank you:) but there seems to be something wrong, if Rachel was fighting him on the psychic plane then why was he able to use his other power, was this before, during, or after?....

@Madame_Blossom: She was fighting him the same time as everybody else. He has multiple powers so I guess he can use them at the same time. It is all in those issues I mentioned.

@charlieboy: I see but in Messiah Complex when Emma engaged him telepathically he was restricted from using all his other abilities, stalemating until Dust had taken him out.

@Madame_Blossom: Different writers.You know how it is.