the starship enterprise versus a cylon base star

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bradlikesunity

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#1  Edited By bradlikesunity

  Picard's galaxy class Enterprise versus a cylon base star, both with a full complement of small fighters.  Obviously there are far more cylon raiders than federation shuttle craft, but federation shuttles have light shielding.
Cylons also give thirty three minutes of prep time (mandatory and given to each team) everytime the enterprise jumps away.  Enterprise has the option to jump away, Cylon Base star is in constant pursuit of enterprise, but attack in intervals.


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Akwa

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#2  Edited By Akwa

Are you kidding?

The Enterprise beats the living bejeesus out of the basestar.

Basestars shoot missiles and have armour plating. The Enterprise has energy weapons and energy shielding. The Enterprise doesn't even need to launch the shuttles. There is nothing that the Cylon fighters can do against it.


This is such a massive curbstomp that it's not funny. It's just lame.

We are talking about Battlestar Galactica: 2003 right?

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AtPhantom

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#3  Edited By AtPhantom
@Akwa said:
"The Enterprise beats the living bejeesus out of the basestar."

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TruePwnge

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#4  Edited By TruePwnge

It sounds like your talking about the nuBSG series, the old show might have had some kind of a shot since it ripped off on Star Wars tech. But the new series is dead. The only asset they have is a jump-drive which allowed them to do an FTL jump every 33 mins. All their other tech is piss poor, 99% of it is useless. They use old guns and old ham radios like they are from the 1950s, they don't even have lasers or shields. All they have is kinetic weapons

Enterprise would kill the entire Cylon Empire, the entire home world in one night

Enterprise-D?
This is overkill

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bradlikesunity

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#5  Edited By bradlikesunity

picard would not authorize lethal force

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#6  Edited By AtPhantom
Why the hell not?
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Akwa

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#7  Edited By Akwa
@TruePwnge said:
"It sounds like your talking about the nuBSG series, the old show might have had some kind of a shot since it ripped off on Star Wars tech. But the new series is dead. The only asset they have is a jump-drive which allowed them to do an FTL jump every 33 mins. All their other tech is piss poor, 99% of it is useless. They use old guns and old ham radios like they are from the 1950s, they don't even have lasers or shields. All they have is kinetic weaponsEnterprise would kill the entire Cylon Empire, the entire home world in one nightEnterprise-D?This is overkill"


Personally, I actually like the new Galactica over the old one. Since the new one has less weird technology and technobabble you don't have to suspend your belief as much as you do for most other sci-fi franchises. I've always thought of the new Galactica as more of a character drama then a sci-fi show. Hyper-advanced technology would just get in the way.


@bradlikesunity said:
"picard would not authorize lethal force"

Why wouldn't he? He's done it before. Just because he's a Feddie doesn't mean he's a wimp, it just means he's a bit more civilised than most other sci-fi franchises.

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#8  Edited By AtPhantom
@Akwa said:
" Personally, I actually like the new Galactica over the old one. Since the new one has less weird technology and technobabble you don't have to suspend your belief as much as you do for most other sci-fi franchises. I've always thought of the new Galactica as more of a character drama then a sci-fi show. Hyper-advanced technology would just get in the way. "
Agreed. BSG is an awesome show, but compared to other sci fi is massively underpowered. A single star destroyer or a BC-304 would rape the colonies and the cylons at the same time.
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Akwa

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#9  Edited By Akwa
@AtPhantom said:
"
@Akwa said:
" Personally, I actually like the new Galactica over the old one. Since the new one has less weird technology and technobabble you don't have to suspend your belief as much as you do for most other sci-fi franchises. I've always thought of the new Galactica as more of a character drama then a sci-fi show. Hyper-advanced technology would just get in the way. "
Agreed. BSG is an awesome show, but compared to other sci fi is massively underpowered. A single star destroyer or a BC-304 would rape the colonies and the cylons at the same time.
"

What about Bablyon Five? I don't know much about that show but they don't have energy shields either, which makes them pretty unique when it comes to sci-fi. The Colonies or the Cylons might be able to give Earth Force a run for it's money.
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#10  Edited By Vrakmul

From what I recall the Cylon star bases are actually pretty fragile.  

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#11  Edited By Tevnoba
@Dreadnaught said:
" From what I recall the Cylon star bases are actually pretty fragile.   "
They are.

 Enterprise wins, keep in mind that the best weapons on BSG are nukes.
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#12  Edited By King_Saturn  Online
The USS Enterprise for the win...
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#13  Edited By BIackFlash

A Star Trek miniature shuttle craft could solo all the BSG universe
 
The only thing deadly the show had was that old bitch Roslin who was dying of cancer, the cylons might to something interesting if they were given time to infiltrate the Star Trek universe with their sexy robots but I think a tricorder would 
immediately  tell friend from foe

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Ellocobruja

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#14  Edited By Ellocobruja

So not a fight. 
The Enterprise would destroy or disable them in a matter of miinutes
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#15  Edited By BardofWonder

Ok so to set the record straight on quite a few things that you all seem to think is correct.  Kinetic Energy Weapons hurt shields the same that Directed Energy Weapons do.  Any torpedo in the trek universe does KE damage.  So the Base Star's weapons while having a smaller payload relative, would still hurt the shields of a trek ship.
Additionally, Base Stars are ridiculously heavily armored.  The only reason that the Battlestars are able to take them out is because they have warheads that are designed to penetrate armor.  Trek phasers are not designed to penetrate armor, this is shown by the incredible usefulness that armor has in the trek universe.  Heavily armored ships are very hard for them to deal with.  
Also, you do realize that the Base Star is taller than the Enterprise is Long right.  It is over 800 meters tall the enterprise is at best something over 600 meters long.  The Basestar is then over 3 kilometers long.  
Basestars field thousands of Raiders which essentially form a type of sheild around the basestar.  so all that phaser fire? it would get intercepted on it's way to the basestar before it could even get hit and any missiles that get launched are shot down mid-flight.  The Raiders do this many times in the series.
Now according to the OP's conditions the Enterprise does win, but only because is can jump away and then has 33 min to repair and recharge, their shields, weapon systems, and the rest of the ship in general.
If the two ships were to simply brawl it out the Basestar would win, not easily but it would win.  Think about the numbers, thousands of raiders all firing explosive rounds at the enterprise, you do realize how fast that amount of punishment would even trek shields would buckle in a relatively short amount of time.  That's not even including the  Basestar itself which would be raining down missiles on the enterprise.  
 
Obviously BSG tech is lower than what we are used to in most Science Fiction but Star Trek is relatively small for many other Science Fiction settings, so don't even compare Star Wars tech to Trek tech, this has been established by way to many people way to long ago to even begin to argue.
 
So if the OP's conditions are kept then the Enterprise wins, but it is not nearly as easy as you all seem to think it is, and mainly they win because they get to repair their ship which they can do much faster than the Basestar can.  However, in a all out fight between the two, the Basestar would eventually win.

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#16  Edited By AtPhantom
@BardofWonder said:
"However, in a all out fight between the two, the Basestar would eventually win. "
No they would not. Enterprise's torpedoes have something like 150 kiloton load. This is greater than any BSG ship to ship nukes, and torpedoes are something you don't catch in mid air. A single photon torpedo completely destroys basestar.
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#17  Edited By BardofWonder

Where did you find that number, the only numbers I have ever hear were in 'isotons' which is some technobabble that the Trek verse made up.  And yes the Raiders regularly shat missiles out space, and at the very least they would suicide against the missile to protect the Basestar.  Which they have also done.

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#18  Edited By rightprice
@BardofWonder:
A better fight would be a base ship against a Wraith hive ship from SG-Atlantis. 
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#19  Edited By AtPhantom

Science. A photon torpedo carries 1.5 kilograms of matter and 1.5 kilograms of anti-matter. I don't exactly remember how much this gives (I could check later) but I do know it's bigger than anything the basestars have in their arsenal. And missiles in BSG were slow as hell. I.E. they were normal missiles. A torpedo is far more maneuverable, and doesn't bow to the laws of physics raiders do. They have no chance of catching one, let alone a salvo.

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#20  Edited By nonobee

Enterprise should take this fairly easy. And its really a explorer vessel to boost compared to the battle station that that base star is. They are just to low tech to match..

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#21  Edited By BardofWonder

HUNDREDS OF RAIDERS, and how exactly do the Trek missiles not 'bow to the laws of physics' that raiders do?  Certainly they are faster, but it is still possible to shoot them down or get into the way of them.  Torpedoes don't exactly have the most advanced guidance system ever.  And yes I'm not denying that Trek tech is far above what a Basestar has access to but the sheer difference in numbers and size, and I know that the Basestar's size doesn't matter that much but the thousands of raiders and heavy raiders definitely do.  The amount of firepower that they can bring to bear simultaneously is too much even for the Enterprise to deal with in an extended battle.  And no matter how fast the torpedoes move, do to the mechanism that they use to detonate dictates that their flight must always last just over one second which is plenty of time for raiders to shoot them down. 

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#22  Edited By Lance Uppercut
@rightprice said:
" @BardofWonder: A better fight would be a base ship against a Wraith hive ship from SG-Atlantis.  "
Hive ship would rape
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#23  Edited By Tevnoba
@BardofWonder said:
" HUNDREDS OF RAIDERS, and how exactly do the Trek missiles not 'bow to the laws of physics' that raiders do?  Certainly they are faster, but it is still possible to shoot them down or get into the way of them.  Torpedoes don't exactly have the most advanced guidance system ever.  And yes I'm not denying that Trek tech is far above what a Basestar has access to but the sheer difference in numbers and size, and I know that the Basestar's size doesn't matter that much but the thousands of raiders and heavy raiders definitely do.  The amount of firepower that they can bring to bear simultaneously is too much even for the Enterprise to deal with in an extended battle.  And no matter how fast the torpedoes move, do to the mechanism that they use to detonate dictates that their flight must always last just over one second which is plenty of time for raiders to shoot them down.  "
That is not enough time for them to be shot down, not even close.  As for Cylon Nukes, they move slow enough to be shot down by the enterprise computer all by itself.  Enterprise Shields could withstand many Cylon Nuke Hits and their Rate of Fire and Quantity on hand would allow the Enterprise all the time necessary for their shields to recharge in-between.  
 
One Photon Torpedo is the scientific equivalent of a 64megaton nuclear explosion and would wipe out hundreds of raiders simultaneously.  The Enterprise Phaser array has far too much range and power in comparison to Cylon Weapons.  Plus Raiders would never get close enough, at Full Impulse the Raiders would never catch up to the enterprise.
 
Then you have the ultimate attack (if necessary).  Transporting Warheads directly inside the Base Star (ohh, so much for Armor).
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#24  Edited By AtPhantom
@Tevnoba: Right, 64 megatons. I was way off. Cylon nukes are barely in the kiloton range.
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#25  Edited By BardofWonder

And where is that number from? the kiloton for the cylon nukes?  Also, I will accept the 60 megaton number, but it is non-canon.  As far as transporting warhead into enemy ships, that's a rather non-standard tactic and I'm sure one that Picard and his crew would use only as a last resort.  My argument that a Cylon Basestar could beat the enterprise in a drawn out battle is not based on the basestar using nukes, it is based on over 800 raiders all shooting at the enterprise at once and helping to defend the basestar.  A photon torpedo would only wipe out many raiders simultaneously if it was targeted to do so.  A torpedo that is detonated even slightly before it's intended target lacks much of the punch it would normally have due to the mixing mechanism.  Also the raiders would be swarming the Enterprise, the ability for the enterprise to effectively hurt them with a torpedo without hurting themselves would not exist.  How exactly could the enterprise 'get away' at impulse speed if the basestar and the raiders can jump.  In an instant they are back surrounding the Enterprise and can continue the fight.  The reason I think that the Raiders would essentially win this all on their own is that the Federation is not designed to deal with fighter swarms, nothing in the Trek universe does anything like that, nor is anything in the Trek universe as manueverable as Cylon Raiders are.  I fully expect the computer of the enterprise to have difficulty hitting the raiders with phasers much less torpedoes.
And lastly, yes a wraith ship would rape a cylon basestar, they have their own fighters to keep the raiders busy and capital ship to capital ship it's just not a contest at all.

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#26  Edited By AtPhantom
@BardofWonder:
 
1. Kiloton for Cylon nukes is based on measuring how much nuclear material can fit in a Galactica warhead, given that they are measurable science. A nuclear warhead in BSG has a minimum yield of 5, and maximum of 150 kilotons. This would barely scratch the shields of the enterprise.
 
2. No one is talking about torpedoes taking out raiders, we're talking about taking out the freaking basestar. And a basestar has no chance of suviving a torpedo.
 
3. Enterprise can achieve 65% the speed of light and make high angle turns at that speed. The Enterprise could easily outmaneuver a raider. That's right, I said it!
 
4. Raiders, apart from every knocking into the shields at the same time, would barely scratch the shields.
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#27  Edited By BardofWonder

1  Where did you find these numbers?
2  Tevnoba was talking about one torpedo taking out many raiders simlutaneously.
3  The Enterprise can outrun raiders but it cannot outmaneuver them in the relatively close quarters fighting that raiders are used to.  The point I was trying to make is that nothing in the Trek universe flies like Raiders fly.  Raiders use all 12 directions of movement; 6 different turn directions, 6 directional movements.  The Trek universe typically uses only 4 rotational axes.  Thus the computer aboard the enterprise would have difficulty predicting the movements of the raiders, in addition raiders make course changes so fast that any predictions that they computer did make would not be valid for more than a split second, and as the phasers are manually fired I doubt that they would be able to hit the raiders.
4  Raiders carry high velocity explosive rounds.  The kinetic energy alone is huge, not only are they fired at an extremely high velocity but also you have to add the speed of the ship to the KE that they have.  Also unlike torpedoes they are designed to detonate on impact rather than just before impact.  Each Raider carries many many thousands of these rounds I'm fairly certain that the Raiders working in concert with the conventional missiles from the baseship could take down the enterprises shields eventually.  Especialy since the Enterprise is just not equipped to deal with a swarm of small fighters as nothing like that exists in Star Trek.

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#28  Edited By Tevnoba

You assuming the fight starts out with the enterprise and the basestar right next to each other.  Basestars in the show always took a distant attack posture to launch raiders first.  As soon as the enterprise saw this they can simply run a circular orbit around the basestar while picking off raiders (that's if they even bother with the raiders at first).  Heck I doubt 100 raiders could take the shields of a shuttle down, let alone the enterprise herself.

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Venom-Hulker_1

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#29  Edited By Venom-Hulker_1

is it the Enterprise E or D either way they'd win

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#30  Edited By BardofWonder

Doesn't matter, all cylon ships can jump, so even if the basestar starts out far away and drops it's raiders off they can all jump to a very close proximity to the enterprise very very quickly,  And you do realize that shields merely dissipate energy, it doesn't matter what form the energy is in right?  Just because phasers look more impressive doesn't mean that they by definition deal more damage than kinetic energy weapons.  In fact the main reason that the races in the Trek universe use directed energy weapons is because the logistics for large amounts of ammunition is not feasable in the Trek universe.  The handheld KEW the TR-116 rifle is a perfect example of why kinetic energy weapons are not put into widespread use in the Trek universe.

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#31  Edited By Ownerz

This Enterprise would destroy the entire BSG universe
 
 

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#32  Edited By BardofWonder

You think that a Galaxy class modified with a 3rd nacelle and some kind of fixed main phaser battery is that much more powerful?  Obviously!! Cause that makes so much sense.

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#33  Edited By AtPhantom
@BardofWonder said:
" Doesn't matter, all cylon ships can jump, so even if the basestar starts out far away and drops it's raiders off they can all jump to a very close proximity to the enterprise very very quickly,  And you do realize that shields merely dissipate energy, it doesn't matter what form the energy is in right?  Just because phasers look more impressive doesn't mean that they by definition deal more damage than kinetic energy weapons.  In fact the main reason that the races in the Trek universe use directed energy weapons is because the logistics for large amounts of ammunition is not feasable in the Trek universe.  The handheld KEW the TR-116 rifle is a perfect example of why kinetic energy weapons are not put into widespread use in the Trek universe. "
Dude, understand this: BASESTAR DIES IN THE FIRST 30 SECONDS OF THE FIGHT.
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#34  Edited By BardofWonder

When has any Federation ship, when encountering another ship of unknown origins, ever attacked within the first 30 seconds of meeting the ship.  NEVER!!  This is not a 'blooodlusted' fight.  So the Basestar would have plenty of time to deploy it's raiders and get a defensive screen up.  And if you'll go back and read my argument, I have not even argued the Basestar stats in this fight.  I could point out that it has two hundred and twenty missile launcher turrets and the missile spam that they are capable of is ridiculous.  But I haven't because I think that the Raiders can take out the Enterprise nearly unaided because the Trek universe does not have anything that even slightly resembles a fighter swarm.  And because of that the weapons of the Enterprise and of the Trek universe in general are not suited to taking on a fighter swarm.  They have no point defense systems, they have no high rate of fire, low power systems so it's only a matter of time until the Enterprise's shields go down and they rip through her oh so beautiful hull.  And don't even tell me that once the Basestar goes down the battle is over because that is total BS.  The raiders are the Baststar's main attack and defense so until all of them are gone the fight is not over.  And whether or not the Basestar would go down even in a bloodlusted situation is entirely dependent upon the starting conditions.  The basestar would have to start within the Enterprise's weapons range but not within their own, which hardly seems fair.  And if they both start outside each other's effective weapon's range the Basestar can close the distance much faster and much more effectively than the Enterprise can.  "JUMP!!" does wonders.  Until you come up with some way that the Enterprise can deal with a fighter swarm that I don't know about, and I know a ton about Trek, the Basestar wins.

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#35  Edited By Ownerz
@BardofWonder said:
"  Until you come up with some way that the Enterprise can deal with a fighter swarm that I don't know about "
They press a switch called "Deflectors" everything the size of an asteroid gets bashed away into infinite space by the Trek Enterprise
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#36  Edited By AtPhantom
@BardofWonder: Will you listen to yourself? You have yet to come up with a way the basestar can survive a single torpedo or phaser blast. That's right, if phasers can be used to drill through the crust of a planet, they can sure as hell blast through a basestar. 
 
And stop reaching. This isn't Basestar against Enterprise on a peaceful mission, this is basestar vs enterprise out for blood. There is no reason not to attack straight away.
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#37  Edited By BardofWonder

I think you might want to review your phasers.  There are phasers that are used to drill, they are pretty much as effective as mechanical drills just easier to use and stock.  When have Combat Phasers ever been used to drill through the crust of a planet, and how quickly do they do so?  Saying that something can drill through the crust of a planet sounds really impressive, but given enough time and enough resources, just about anything could do that.   I already explained how the Basestar could survive phaser shots or torpedo launches. There are over 800 raiders flying around in a cloud around the enterprise, they don't really care whether they live or die and will throw themselves in the way of any shot going at the basestar.  The Enterprise would never be able to get a clear phaser shot, much less a clear torpedo shot.  
 
What do you mean reaching?  Federation standard protocol is most definitely not to shoot first and ask questions later that's total BS, even if they were expecting trouble they would attempt to hail the Basestar first.  Given that the Basestar can't recieve hails the way the Trek ships do and that they Enterprise would be able to tell that, then the crew would come up with some way to get a radio message to the basestar to resolve the situation peacefully.  How many unknown entities has the Enterprise come in contact with and shot first?  I'm pretty certain it's a big fat 0.

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#38  Edited By Ownerz
@BardofWonder said:
"  Federation standard protocol is most definitely not to shoot first and ask questions later that's total BS, even if they were expecting trouble they would attempt to hail the Basestar first.  "
Kirk would always shoot first ask questions later, he was a maverick, a brawler, a womanizer and a rouge. Captain Kirk would get into a bar fight with Klingons and blow away some alien ships just for the hell of it
 
Picard was the softie diplomat, but he was a lot wiser than Kirk and his ship was far more powerful
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#39  Edited By Gamera

I think a basestar would be beaten badly. Kirk's Enterprise withstood a nuclear weapon and even survived shots from the planet killer. A Galaxy class ship would be far more powerful and have more advanced shielding. In one episode the Enterprise-D survived for an extended period inside the corona of a star. A basestar would be in serious trouble going toe-to-toe with the Enterprise-D.

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#40  Edited By Manchine

@atphantom said:

@Akwa said:

"The Enterprise beats the living bejeesus out of the basestar."

Have to agree. Got to remember when Enterprise C went back in time to the 60's they were afraid a nuclear bomb could damage there ship without shields. With Shields up what are they going to do. That was just the Enterprise C.

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#41  Edited By Gamera

Also, we saw in the original series that Federation starships were capable of warp maneuvers during combat. If the Cylon fighters proved to be a menace, and I doubt they would be against a shielded Galaxy class ship, the Enterprise could simply warp away and attack the basestar from a different location.

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This is a joke, right? BSG has armor but no shields. Beam a couple of photon torpedoes to critical areas and hasta la vista.

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BlueForBen

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Which side is Q on? That side wins - no contest.

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Jackalandturn

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This would be like Superman vs. Frodo Baggins. Total mismatch. Enterprise could beam photon torpedoes into the engine compartments or weapons stores and take out a basestar in seconds. The phasers could probably cut through the hulls, as hardened as they are, in the same amount of time.