The Primarchs Run a Gauntlet

All 18 Primarchs

Gauntlet

Round 1: Spider-Man, Kaine, Ben Reilly

Round 2: Wolverine, X-23, Daken

Round 3: Suicide Squad (Deadshot, King Shark, Diablo, Black Manta, Voltaic).

Round 4: Teen Titans (Cyborg, Robin, Kid Flash, Raven, Starfire)

Round 5: Midnighter (Can use doors).

Round 6: Batman ;) (1 week prep)

Round 7: Superboy (Pre-52)

Round 8: Green Lantern (Guy Gardner)

Round 9: Grand Master Luke ;)

Stipulations

Magnus cannot matter manipulate or time manipulate

Primarchs and members of the gauntlet are in character

Standard gear for everyone bar batman of course.

Battlezone

How far do the primarchs get?

Bump: @killerwasp@sirfizzwhizz@wut

Clears with difficulty imo. Nice Gauntlet ;)

They clear with mid-difficulty.

@mcsquizzy:Thanks :).

@dogmann Any reasoning?

Clears and why as much I hate guy, but why is guy behind luke? What version of primarchs and what version of raven is that?

Technically Vulkan can't die. He just keeps regenerating from even the worst injuries.

I feel like Guy could win based on what Green Lanterns are capable of but I have no idea what Guy himself can do, so I won't comment on if they clear or not.

@metaljimmor: Well... technically... Vulkan can die.... you just need a special material wielded by a primarch which is a large part of what Vulkan Lives was about. Presumably, they can also be destroyed the same way daemons can be utterly destroyed. By a being powerful enough to utterly shatter and scatter their soul into oblivion so throughouly that it can not be brought back together (It is what happened to Horus), but very, very, very few beings have that kind of power, and certainly, no one in this list does.

1 question

why is batman above teen titans

@wut:

Yah, I know there are special materials that can do it. Though didn't Vulkan come back even from being stabbed by one?

Either way, the Primarchs have an immortal and unkillable superhuman on their side and none of these guys have the means to put him down.

@lukespeedblitz:

Rounds 1-3 should be relatively easy, with Wolverine giving the Primarchs the most difficulty.

Round 4 is where it gets trickier.

Raven, Cyborg and Kid Flash all have the potential to cause major problems with some of their hax powers.

Magnus would likely engage Raven in a battle of the minds, at least holding her off. Lorgar would rip Cyborg's soul apart after they figured out he was a technopath. I'd imagine Cyborg might get at least one of them with a Boomtube BFR.

Lorgar would then assist Magnus with Raven.

Sanguinius and Corvus Corax would take to the skies and bring down Starfire.

There's no easy answer for Kid Flash but iirc he's noticeably slower than his adult counterpart. The Primarchs are pretty zippy themselves, and with so many of them they're bound to hit him at some point.

Magnus could also use pre-cognition to tag him.

I'd say between Kid Flash speedblitz and Cyborg BFR we're down at least one Primarch at this point. Probably Angron since he's the scariest of them and thus the biggest target.

Midnighter either BFR's one of them or gets torn to shreds, no middle ground. Given that Primarchs make people wet themselves on sight I'll say the latter.

(I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore Batman)

Superboy gives them quite the fight but he would get dogpiled and beaten down. His higher physical stats are motivated by Lorgar going for the soul and Magnus shenanigans.

Guy is probably the same as Superboy.

I'll have a seperate post for Luke.

@metaljimmor: Because he is a Primarch and a Perpetual, he can only be slain by another Primarch using the unobtainium. If someone else does it, it doens't work (IIRC, it, in fact, healed his mind).

A light respect thread here. He's incredibly powerful though not quite planetary level....

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/34rh74/respect_green_lantern_guy_gardner_postcrisis/

@nuclearrebirth: Thanks for posting. I look forward to your analysis on Luke..

@lukespeedblitz:

Thanks dude.

I figure it's best to compare Luke's stats to that of a "standard" Primarch, account for any non-shared abilities and go from there.

Speed:

-Primarchs are stated as having superior reflexes to Cutsodes and Astartes (The First Heretic) and are capable of fighting so fast that even Space Marines can't see them. Space Marines possess superhuman speed and reflexes, capable of deflecting supersonic Bolter rounds, moving faster than humans can see and they even have the odd nanosecond feat or two. Considering the degree by which Primarchs outstrip Astartes I'm comfortable classifying them as having high-hypersonic reaction times.

-Luke regularly dodges and deflects high volumes of blaster fire and is considerably faster than Jedi or Sith who are considerably faster than regular humans. He also possesses precognition through the Force, meaning that even if he can't perceive something through his senses he is still likely to unconsciously make the correct decision. Whether that be steering his starfighter or adjusting the angle of his blade.

Indeed one has to wonder whether or not Luke's reaction feats are even speed feats as we understand them in the traditional sense. Ie Dante or The Flash see bullets whizzing towards them, they register the information in their minds and their brains fire their neurons to tell their bodies to get out of the way. It seems to me that Force-sensitives' battle instincts are governed mostly through their connection to Force. Numerous EU sources mention Jedi surrendering to the flow of the Force and no longer making decisions in combat.

Whatever the case may be is seems evident that Luke's connection to the Force allows him to "react" to threats moving at high hypersonic speeds.

TIE (Perhaps slight edge to Luke since he has precognition)

Strength/Striking:

-Primarchs have frequently been described as having strength great enough to sunder mountains. They have plenty of high-end strength/striking feats, resisting a Warhound Titan, moving thousands of tons of rocks, punching clean through a Contemptor Dreadnought etc.

-Luke can use Force-based physical augmentation to increase his physical strength. Though I'm not aware of anything near the level of a Primarch.

Primarchs

Durability:

-Primarchs have tanked blows which could destroy entire armies, crush mountains or have the power of a caged star. They have kept fighting even with their ribs crushed, their heads sheeting blood and their faces shorn clean off.

-Without Force-based physical augmentation Luke has the durability of an athletic and tough man. He can use Force barriers to blunt impact that could easily destroy his body.

Luke's Force barriers and telekinesis greatly increases his survivability but in a contest of straight-up durability the Primarchs take it handily.

Primarchs

Ranged Destructive Power (Warp Sorcery, Guns and Force Powers):

-Primarch weapons are typically described in one of two ways, as being able to destroy mountains (Leman Russ' Mjalnir and Ferrus Manus' Forgebreaker) or as having the power of a star (Magnus' sword and Mortarion's Lantern.) Magnus' Warp sorcery could produce blasts powerful enough to obliterate an Ork titan and shake the world he was standing on. He was also able to casually storms of Warp lightning and Warp fire that obliterated huge swathes of troops and armored vehicles. As for telekinesis I'd say that Magnus manhandling an Eldar titan and Lorgar pulling down an Ultramarines ship is at least as impressive as what Grandmaster Yoda was able to do.

-Luke's primary ranged offensive power is his Force-based telekinesis. From what I can gather he has the power to damage large starships at range with his TK. There is also the famous Doval Basin/black hole feat. If said feat is legit then it's easily the most powerful thing in this section.

Luke Skywalker

I think the Primarchs take this one through the numbers advantage. They are free to pursue a variety of strategies whereas Luke has to commit to one tactic at a time to win the day, he can't afford to split his concentration. I could see the Primarchs triumphing by having Magnus and Lorgar assault Luke telepathically while Horus, Angron and Sanguinius assault him up close. Luke doesn't have the durability to take even one blow. Meanwhile the other Primarchs could run interference. Moratrion could throw Phosphex bombs, forcing Luke to focus on purifying his body. Leman Russ could howl and deafen him. Perturabo and Fulgrim could toss in the odd burst of Bolter fire here and there. The team just has so many options to divide Luke's attention and overwhelm him.

@lukespeedblitz: @killerwasp:Gm luke has no reason to be behind guy gardner. He is at least planetary while gardner hasnt shown the feats for that. A good gauntlet though man. I like the cheeky luke add for the end. But Luke cant take that many people of his level.

The primarchs are too durable for most the guys in this gauntlet to damage them (Superboy onward will be the only real threats). Even then they can't stop the psyker primarchs just tearing their minds apart.

@noah_ouellette: Luke is a glass canon, and Guy isn't. Guy also has better stats and better reactionary speed with better weaponry

@noah_ouellette: I added the round after Guy for the heck of it. Truth be told I thought people would have them stopping at Guy. He's incredibly versatile and fast.

;)

@lukespeedblitz: He is, but demon stuff is a wonderful power! XD Btw u never did tell me the versions for the primarchs?

@killerwasp: Ah they're all Pre-Heresy, don't want them to have any nasty Chaos amps ;P

Round 6 would be the funniest fight ever

@lukespeedblitz: .... you mother ..... lol

This is pre heresy I assume.

Magnus could probably solo everry round by himself if he was chaos amped and could use his time and matter manipulaton

Even though Mangus is nerfed, the Primearchs would win. All 18 are simply too much

I also reccomend taking prep from Bat-God. You know better than this @lukespeedblitz ;)

@nuclearrebirth: Doval Basin feat has always been odd, and I feel, taken out of context (kudos to you for saying it was the Doval Basin that was generating it instead of doing what most do and just say Black Hole).

Because, for the feat to be as impressive as most try to make it out to be, it would need to have the mass of a Black Hole (At the minimum, a star worth of mass, but more likely, an entire solar system of mass), when what we know of Doval Basins actually suggest it doesn't have the mass of a true Black Hole. It is a defensive system that replicates the effects of black holes, the gravitational pull, to protect it, however, nothing the Vong have ever done has given credence to the idea that they can generate that much mass, out of nowhere, then... somehow, get rid of it.

Still impressive, but not as much as most like to think it is.

@wut:

Thanks man the Doval Basin feat has always fascinated me. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

The way I see it when people hype the Doval Basin feat up they undermine Luke's battle forum credibility. If Luke's telekinesis could move an actual black hole then it could easily destroy a planet many times over. This doesn't gel with any character in the franchise. Darth Sidious could destroy capital ships with a Force Storm and devastate the surfaces of planets but he was far from being a planet buster, not even close.

When a claim gets inflated it also makes people less receptive to give them credit for other things. All of a sudden Luke has street level speed and can't do diddly-squat with his telekinesis.

@nuclearrebirth: Indeed, it throws the entire thing out of wack. Don't get me wrong, I am well accustomed to out there feats that appear every once in awhile with fiction, like Star Wars, that has so many novels, but there is more evidence pointing to it not having the mass of a black hole then there is pointing in favor.

Primarchs clear the list.

They stop at 4, and hard. There are at least 3 TT that can arguably solo them (Raven, Starfire and Kid Flash), actually a pissed off, peak Raven will solo the entire WH40k galaxy, not just the Primarchs

@totu: When you say galaxy do you mean the actual galaxy or the whole setting?

Furthermore, Starfire isnt soloing jack, she gets one shotted and almost half the primarchs can do so.

@merulezall: Well, I think the whole setting if we talk about peak Raven.

I had seen the quotes about "multiversal chaos gods" and such but those are mostly hyperbolic descriptions or from unreliable in setting sources that are not proved anywhere in the actual setting.

I mean the Chaos gods are made by the emotions of the beings from WH galaxy and struggle to get a foot in the said galaxy, being usually blocked by someone as the emperor (who himself isn't really controlling things at galactic level). If they would have been able to manifest elsewhere they would have spiled in in different parts of the universe, like in a nearby galaxy at least. They do not even have full control of their warp dimension either.

On the other hand a peak Raven had an omniversal empathy feat, and another time had contained, controlled and molded to her needs an universe of souls. Or had become the incarnation of the sin of pride, the most powerful of the seven deadly sins, able to control the others (represented by her brothers). On that level she oneshotted all her six brothers, who on top of their already great powers had taken from Trigon enough power to destroy Raven and the universe (main DC universe). She was still above that at power she held considering that she didn't even bothered to take those powers for herself but intended to transfer them into her fellow Titans to transform them in her evil companions and servants. She can travel through time and is also virtually immortal and as the daughter of Trigon is not allowed to enter in Heaven (by the Presence/the Source himself) and nobody from hell ever bothered her dead or alive.

Starfire, depends of her incarnations but she can go from KOing Wonder Woman with a single starbolt to going head to head with a pissed off WW. She can go FTL and have FTL reflexes like dodging and swirling through a rain of sun rays or a laser array barrage fired at her. Is also strong enough that was needed the combined efforts of Wonder Girl and Mon El (another kryptonian, not quite Superman level but still) to hold her still and she can lift and carry around a transport cruise ship without a sweat (so around thousands of tons at least). She will cave their heads in before they can react if she goes full out, or burn them to ashes with a starbolt or an area effect attack using her solar energy.

Many people tend to disconsider the TT as some sidekick, weaker version of much stronger Justice League but truth is that some TT teams (like the New TT mentioned here) can wipe the floor with JL if serious. In fact in one of their first encounters (in pre-crisis era) Raven alone (a regular Raven who usually hold back a lot) had taken down the JL before they could react (put them in time stasis, and among them was Zatanna, one of the most powerful magic users in DC). And she did that while simultaneously was mind controlling the Titans

@totu:

I had seen the quotes about "multiversal chaos gods" and such but those are mostly hyperbolic descriptions or from unreliable in setting sources that are not proved anywhere in the actual setting.

How is that a hyperbolic statement.... They came from the novels and it was someone witnessing them doing it so in the warp. Why would it not be proven?

I mean the Chaos gods are made by the emotions of the beings from WH galaxy and struggle to get a foot in the said galaxy, being usually blocked by someone as the emperor (who himself isn't really controlling things at galactic level). If they would have been able to manifest elsewhere they would have spiled in in different parts of the universe, like in a nearby galaxy at least. They do not even have full control of their warp dimension either.

They do not struggle to get gain a foothold in the WH galaxy. How did you come up with that conclusion? They gain power via emotions, but they are not limited to the WH galaxy. You do realize the warp is filled with tons of other gods right?

On the other hand a peak Raven had an omniversal empathy feat, and another time had contained, controlled and molded to her needs an universe of souls. Or had become the incarnation of the sin of pride, the most powerful of the seven deadly sins, able to control the others (represented by her brothers). On that level she oneshotted all her six brothers, who on top of their already great powers had taken from Trigon enough power to destroy Raven and the universe (main DC universe). She was still above that at power she held considering that she didn't even bothered to take those powers for herself but intended to transfer them into her fellow Titans to transform them in her evil companions and servants. She can travel through time and is also virtually immortal and as the daughter of Trigon is not allowed to enter in Heaven (by the Presence/the Source himself) and nobody from hell ever bothered her dead or alive.

So she's been above universal threats... Because Trigon is at best equal to one of the chaos gods if hes in his own realm.

Starfire, depends of her incarnations but she can go from KOing Wonder Woman with a single starbolt to going head to head with a pissed off WW. She can go FTL and have FTL reflexes like dodging and swirling through a rain of sun rays or a laser array barrage fired at her. Is also strong enough that was needed the combined efforts of Wonder Girl and Mon El (another kryptonian, not quite Superman level but still) to hold her still and she can lift and carry around a transport cruise ship without a sweat (so around thousands of tons at least). She will cave their heads in before they can react if she goes full out, or burn them to ashes with a starbolt or an area effect attack using her solar energy.

KOing wonder woman was prolly a lowball, as in every Starfire vs ww fight besides that one usually ends with WW taking her town. I'm not the only one who believes this either,

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/star-fire-vs-wonder-woman-405212/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/wonder-woman-vs-starfire-1595506/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/starfire-vs-wonder-woman-645124/

The last two mention that WW would destroy SF. Its pretty common knowledge that SF isn't that good. Also FTL reflexes matters little when u got primarchs that are already at that lvl and I can bet you anything that she's not out doing Magnus the Red's time stop......

Many people tend to disconsider the TT as some sidekick, weaker version of much stronger Justice League but truth is that some TT teams (like the New TT mentioned here) can wipe the floor with JL if serious. In fact in one of their first encounters (in pre-crisis era) Raven alone (a regular Raven who usually hold back a lot) had taken down the JL before they could react (put them in time stasis, and among them was Zatanna, one of the most powerful magic users in DC). And she did that while simultaneously was mind controlling the Titans

The only TT that is lowballed is Raven, hands down everyone else is second string unless theres some context for the most part. Granted there has been some who have joined the TT team who arent second string but they joined and are not really part of it as a whole they are only there for a brief time and then move on.

They clear.

They clear all rounds but the 6th.

You gave 1 week prep' to Batman ! ><

Was you out of your mind ? !!!

Can stop at Guy , definetly stops at Luke.

@totu:

Who was witnessing them? What actual effects had that in real world? Because I am not aware to have any impact, hence the hyperbolic, unreliable description that is contradicted by the very setting as a whole

What makes you believe the warp isnt real... The warp is its own multiverse. Just because it didnt affect the 40k galaxy doesnt mean it didnt happen. IIRC it was Ahriman who was witnessing the destruction of universes with the snap or a flick of the wrist from the chaos gods. In the warp the daemons of chaos can be as large as planets if they choose to do so, because in the warp the Chaos gods can do whatever they please. Its why the chaos gods can't come to our universe, they are simply TOO big to do so.

Really? I thought their main thing is to spil over the "real world" and take over it, and they are blocked to do that and have just partial success. I think only times one of the main chaos gods was able to enter the real space that "Eye of Terror" was formed. Which is a great feat for WH but is barelly significant for higher ups in DC.

No, the Chaos Space Marines want to burn everything, the Chaos gods don't care. If theres even so much as a threat to them, they will plot against it briefly. Otherwise they return to their great game. Hence why the Chaos gods empowered Horus just enough to injure the God Emperor and then bounced and left horus to his doom once the God Emperor was injured enough. They can't come into the 40k galaxy because once more they are too big, but they also don't care to do so cause they are too busy playing against each other in their great game.

No chaos god has ever came to real space, not the big four anyway. Slaanesh's birth which he was always there to begin with, came to become a full fledged chaos god due to the act of the Eldar, this doesn't mean they can't exist. Tzeentch for example has been around since the Dawn of time.... long before humanity, eldar, necrons, etc even existed and with that he fought the three other major chaos gods to the point where he lost and thus broke his staff.

I really don't think so, Trigon is someone that the Presence himself make deals with, who plan to conquer Heaven and defeat the Presence, was stated by the Monitor to be together only with the Spectre in their own power category and consider his sons, one of which, Belial, was the hell ruler at some point (after he defeated no other than Lucifer), as weak and useless. Raven had gruesomly killed at some point (even if only just temporary) the same Belial. I doubt any of the chaos gods is near as pwoerful as DC hell lords and none of those are anywhere as powerful as Trigon (except probably Vertigo Lucifer)

Trigon's power comes from his own dimension, outside of his hes not as strong IIRC.

Trigon is way, way above the chaos gods as status and even direct feats of power, not to mention reliable statements or scaling him up from his kids (including Raven, who usually can push him back and defeat him just by having some help or a significant amped powers)

Last I checked he lost to Raven solo who was at best multi universal.

I know all those, I even participated in them. Starfire and WW had two, technically three direct fights, and these are the main comparison. I consider less relevant the indirect ones like A can beat B and B is probably better than C so A can beat C as well regardless if couldn't beat C in their direct fight, those are just fanboys mind jimmicks.

That wasn't the argument. Your argument was Starfire's impressive cause she can K.O WW. I was simply saying, just cause she can K.O WW doesnt mean jack when there are a few Primarchs that can one shot.

In their first fight Kori had KO Diana with just one big starbolt. Second was a draw and same the third, when Kori had fought one of Raven brothers who turned himself in a perfect copy of WW. I fail to see how WW was superior to her and especially I want to see some feats from Primarchs as of now I say they have at best just a fraction of Starfire physical power and are nowhere enar her speed and reflexes.

What? Alright if we can't even agree that WW is better than Kori there's simply no debating. From this point on.

Sure, some magic powers can beat her but I doubt any of them is fast enough to do it before she blast them or burn them away. And definitely not when you also have Kid Flash and even Raven who can be at times incredibly fast (including precog and moving as fast as Kid Flash by using her soul self teleportation)

Kid flash only goes as fast as Magnus wants him to go,

His passive aura,

Magnus set foot on the causeway, and the normal tempo of time’s passage slowed, each raindrop falling as though in slow motion, the zigzagging traceries of lightning moving with infinite slowness.

Warhammer 40k A Thousand Sons

Again the soldier who held San's spear saw lasers which are Lightspeed at a stand still with but a FRACTION of his power channeled through him....

The Spear of Telesto worked and Arkio felt as if he were merely a vessel for the weapon, like the igniter for an explosive power so far beyond him as to be unimaginable. And yet, every second the weapon sang in his grip, and the teardrop blade brought ruin to hundreds of Traitor Marines, he felt himself changing. Power the likes of which he had never dared imagine coursed through Arkio, and his mind struggled to grasp it. The closest thing he could approximate it with was his rebirth when he left the sarcophagus on Baal for the first time, but even that was a pale shadow compared to the majestic force running through him now. He was a hundred feet tall. He could see the passage of bolts and laser blasts as if they were suspended in the air. He was invincible. By the lords, he was godlike. Arkio counted the Word Bearers in an eye-blink. There were too many, the spear told him.

Warhammer 40k Deus Encarmine

Ofc there's more but I don't got the time to post more right at this moment.