the living tribunal vs lucifer morningstar

@CitizenBane: Frank Millers Batman fought Classic Spawn and slightly lost first match while Stalemating the second....

Earth 31 Batman rules. Earth 31 Supes took a bigger beating. Peace Im out. ;)

Lucifer with ease, he is as close to omnipotence as it get's without being actually omnipotent.

@CadenceV2 said:

@CitizenBane: Frank Millers Batman fought Classic Spawn and slightly lost first match while Stalemating the second....

Earth 31 Batman rules. Earth 31 Supes took a bigger beating. Peace Im out. ;)

Are you talking about the one where Spawn set people on fire and Batman walked in? I recall Batman jumping Spawn and Spawn having to use magic to get his balance back, but Bats ran away and passed out in an ally after noting spawn held back. Spawn didn't want to fight Batman and even resurrected him when he died (or was dying), while Bats wanted to take him down hard, Batman was a grumpy old $#$# the whole comic.

@drgnx said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@CitizenBane: Frank Millers Batman fought Classic Spawn and slightly lost first match while Stalemating the second....

Earth 31 Batman rules. Earth 31 Supes took a bigger beating. Peace Im out. ;)

Are you talking about the one where Spawn set people on fire and Batman walked in? I recall Batman jumping Spawn and Spawn having to use magic to get his balance back, but Bats ran away and passed out in an ally after noting spawn held back. Spawn didn't want to fight Batman and even resurrected him when he died (or was dying), while Bats wanted to take him down hard, Batman was a grumpy old $#$# the whole comic.

LOL yup. Seriously tho Classic Spawn with his Magic would Pwn Spider Man or Wolverine with ease as well. Batman (Earth 31 Batman with Age) would have died quicker... BUT DIDN'T!

Living Tribunal is second to TOAA, Lucifer without Michael is not second to the Presence and the Living Tribunal is omnipresent.

Living Tribunal defeats and dismisses Lucy.

@Cbookman123 said:

i'll say Lucifer morningstar wins

The Living Tribunal is actually as strong as The Spectre. One questionalby cannon moment even has The Living Tribunal mention his "hooded spectral ally" and a few more questionably canon moments have them working together.

Lucifer Mornignstar, however, is above The Spectre, second only to The Presence (third, if you include The Great Evil Beast). I'd say Lucifer is more powerful here.

@kingofash:

the crossover is non-canon, if anything it was retconned, the bio seems to say that LT fashioned these 2 brothers, while in the comic both of them pretty much dwarfed the living tribunal and the spectre:

10 pages forward in the same issue (dc vs marvel #4) we see LT and spectre nothing compared to the brothers:

here's the edited image to see it clearer:

spectre:

living tribunal:

now his bio states that he help fashioned the brothers (meaning it's a retcon) see last paragraph and read the note.

so the LT helped fashion 2 beings who are guardians of a megaverse, each megaverse encompasses more than 1 multiverse. That's far better than anything lucifer or spectre have done

I'll go with Lucifer. Hasn't he tricked The Presence before? I swear I saw that somewhere.

no, it's the exact opposite:

Even lucifer's famous rebellion was orchestrated by the presence himself:

both of these scans are from lucifer #75.

i am curious though, what does lucifer have on LT?

@rolldestroyer: Well I thought he had cunning, but I guess that boat sunk.

@rolldestroyer: Yet they also said that The Spectre created the Brothers as well (The Living Tribunal helped make the Brother, who do you suppose he helped?) By referencing The Brothers in The Living Tribunals bio, Marvel is stating that their Omniverse is cannon and as where the events in that crossover. One of the gudiebooks even says that both Marvel and DC are in the same Omniverse, which allows for crossovers like the above to happen. Lucifer Morningstar is much more powerful than The Spectre, and is second only to The PResence (third, if you include The Great Evil Beast).

@monsterstomp: He does have cunning, but The Pressence is all-knowing.

yeah, except that this retcon only happened in marvel, in dc it was completely ignored, that's why it couldn't be applied to spectre. guidebook? never even knew something like this even existed, show it to me. and no, marvel and dc don't share the same omniverse, marvel has its own omniverse and it's been mentioned dozenS of timeS on panel as well as in the handbooks.

@rolldestroyer: Marvel and DC sharing multiverse is debatable, but Marvel believes that Marvel and DC are both in the one Omniverse. DC Universe even has a page on the Marvel wiki (and yes I know wikis aren't always the best source of information). Marvel acknowloging DC means that Living Tribunal and Spectre are equals.

oh wait, the guidebook turned out to be a wiki? seriously? ok, i guess superman prime one million is also only second to the presence in dc:

http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Prime_(One_Million)

because we all know that SP1M is above lucifer, michael, great evil beast, spectre and the likes, right?

try getting some real evidence.

@rolldestroyer:

http://marvel.com/universe/Glossary:O

http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes/omnapp.htm

The last one is the text from the 2004 guidebook.

it's actually not, it's been slightly altered, here's the real thing, from the 2005 handbook

also marvunapp is the best thing to use if you're looking for a wiki, it's been acknowledged by the handbook for instance (go to the bottom)

though i still didn't get your point as to why you referred to it.

Could Lucifer manipulate the Living Tribunal to do his bidding?

They are both freakin awesome :)

I will say Lucifer though.

@buttersdaman000: Living Tribunal is NOT the 2nd most powerful in Marvel. What about the Fulcrum and PR Beyonder? Each can stomp LT easily

LT= Lucifer + Michael

Lucifer + Michael doesn't=Presence or Omnipotent.

The Presence equals The Voice(New 52), Michael Demiurgos, Lucifer Morningstar, The Source, The Spectre(Spirit of Vengeance), Eclipso(Spirit of Wrath), and The Radiant(Spirit of Mercy).

Close, but the LT just seems more powerful.

LT wins.

@kingant27: that is the kind of outdated thinking that is real annoying.

first, you are thinking not of human beings, but of numbers that can fit so cleanly into equations. does me plus someone else equals another guy? no. LT does not have lucifers infinite will, nigh omniscience, reality manipulation and thought manipulation, nor michaels infinite amount of power. LT has nigh omnipotence, but that is it. no will, no complete infinite power, no nigh omniscience.

second, the presence does not equal them, he is above them all. and to think that lucifer equals the raidiant is just silly.

the presence infinite amount of >the source> lucifer >Michael> spectre>eclipso>raidiant.

the voice is just the presences voice

After studying LT, I would have to say Lucifer.

LT.

Lucifer Morningstar takes this one. He can control and manipulate creation. CREATION, not reality. That means anything and everything; reality, dreams, imagination, anti-matter, etc etc etc. He was able to tank a blast meant to destroy all of creation. He will destroy the LT with ease.

Both of them get sucked into the Comicvine void because:

1. This silly thread was revived

2. These kinds of battles are banned

Good day

This

I would go with Lt

LT stomps negative difficulty

actually LT > DC universe

I feel Lucifer wins due to his intellect and manipulation abilities. He may not even have to use his Infinite Will and even if he does, it make it that much more difficult for LT. He has shown far more manipulative feats than LT has.

NO

What many people are probably referring to insofar as Lucifer "tricking" The Presence, is probably the instance in Mansions of the Silence where Lucifer and Michael subsume themselves in The Presence's mind and he states "While Samael has squandered eternity in trying to escape from the plan, which of course foresaw everything he did. Until now".

bump

@xiix: he never tricked the presence. and LT is ever so slightly superior power wise, though if they do fight, lucifer will win.

lucifer and LT are almost equals. power wise LT is a shade more powerful than lucifer, but this is a battle between characters, not power sets. so even though i do not know who can ultimately win, neither lucifer nor LT can stomp, or even win with minor difficulty; it is much more closer, though because of lucifers experience, i choose him.

wait, what page am i on? god, sorry for the bump, did not even see my own post above.

Lucifer. In fact, I'd rate both Lucifer and Michael over LT

@reactor: dude, michael obviously is far more powerful than both LT and lucifer, who are on the same level.

LT.

LT

Living Tribunal

LT

@xiix: wrong guy...youre looking for van cere

Living Tribunal.

@afueikawa: You've got to explain to me what in happened before and after that.