The Kraken vs Godzilla

" Well considering that in the film the Stygian Witches said that no weapon can harm the Kraken and it took a mystic molecular transformation to affect a win, I'm not sure what Godzilla can employ to overcome the Kraken, especially when you consider that the Kraken was meant to have subjegated the Titans. "

" @the creator said:

" Well considering that in the film the Stygian Witches said that no weapon can harm the Kraken and it took a mystic molecular transformation to affect a win, I'm not sure what Godzilla can employ to overcome the Kraken, especially when you consider that the Kraken was meant to have subjegated the Titans. "

Wow... is Kraken that tough really ? "

Here's the problem here, we have absolutely no feats of the Kraken within the film to state otherwise that its just a over gigantic monster that can smash things to pieces.  It shows absolutely no ability, no feat to give it otherwise that would make it be able to equal or rival that of Godzilla.  I mean, if I remember correctly for Godzilla his beam is powerful enough to vaporize meteors, destroy black holes (and black holes are the absolute most destructive force we know of in space currently), he also has his G-Cells which gives him near invincibility w/ super regenerative healing capabilities.  You add the fact that he's super powerful, swinging other monsters like King Ghidhorah in the air who weigh in the excess of 80,000+ tons like they were literally cotton toys.   Didn't he also sustain or take a Super Nova like blast as well?
 
I mean, we have established feats for Godzilla which puts him on a stupid level of power.  However for the Kraken, yeah, the witches say "no weapon" can defeat the Kraken, however there's no feats for the Kraken other then I'm huge and I can smash alot of things which could very well be it's power and why its so dominant within the Clash of the Titans Universe, because their is no being that is big or powerful enough to contend against in it that realm.  At this point, there is nothing that shows me that the Kraken would be able to sustain a plausible statement to make me believe Godzilla wouldn't just dominate in this match up.

" Here's the problem here, we have absolutely no feats of the Kraken within the film to state otherwise that its just a over gigantic monster that can smash things to pieces.  It shows absolutely no ability, no feat to give it otherwise that would make it be able to equal or rival that of Godzilla.  I mean, if I remember correctly for Godzilla his beam is powerful enough to vaporize meteors, destroy black holes (and black holes are the absolute most destructive force we know of in space currently), he also has his G-Cells which gives him near invincibility w/ super regenerative healing capabilities.  You add the fact that he's super powerful, swinging other monsters like King Ghidhorah in the air who weigh in the excess of 80,000+ tons like they were literally cotton toys.   Didn't he also sustain or take a Super Nova like blast as well?  I mean, we have established feats for Godzilla which puts him on a stupid level of power.  However for the Kraken, yeah, the witches say "no weapon" can defeat the Kraken, however there's no feats for the Kraken other then I'm huge and I can smash alot of things which could very well be it's power and why its so dominant within the Clash of the Titans Universe, because their is no being that is big or powerful enough to contend against in it that realm.  At this point, there is nothing that shows me that the Kraken would be able to sustain a plausible statement to make me believe Godzilla wouldn't just dominate in this match up. "

Bump.

Godzilla vs A featless creature that beat featless beings.

@kaijukinggojira: not true!! I mean...they had arrows right? So Kracken > arrows. Take that, Godzilla!

Your about to blow my mind.

@the_creator: but the Clash of Titans movie didn't even show the Kraken being attacked by conventional weaponry or any godlike powers!

True.

Godzilla's having Calamari under the Mediterranean moon tonight.

Godzilla throws the Kraken into the Sun.

Kraken bites the lizards head apart

Probably the Kraken.

A pink smudge will be all that's left after Godzilla's finished.

you guys have absolutely no points in your arguments. It's either "Godzilla laser beams him."

or "Kraken bites his head off..." NO!

The Kraken defeated Kronos, the god/titan that literally created the universe.......so idk how the hell Godzilla is suppose to beat that but hey whatever.

Godzilla

Which Godzilla is this?

this

kraken

@masterkungfu:

kraken

Really?? Godzilla WINS with only 1 NUKE BREATH HIT!!

@shockwavemuncher:

I have to agree with you on this.

" Well considering that in the film the Stygian Witches said that no weapon can harm the Kraken and it took a mystic molecular transformation to affect a win, I'm not sure what Godzilla can employ to overcome the Kraken, especially when you consider that the Kraken was meant to have subjegated the Titans. "

the kraken would be to much for Godzilla because Godzilla doesn't have any magic so that means he cant kill the kraken also the kraken took down 12 titans and just one of them is bad enough they said kronos one of the titans can destroy the earth a scatter it across the universe also kronos litteraly created the universe and imagin 12 of those not just that the kraken has 4 tentacles, 2 arms and obviously a mouth so once the kraken stars pumling at Godzilla he is not letting him up so its over for godzilla not just that how can godzilla kill something that cant be killed and is more strong then him so stop being fan boys use your brains and actually put up evidence! saying how the kraken would get defeated

Godzilla is not a weapon, and therefore the Stygian Witches could be absolutely right that no weapon can harm the Kraken even while Godzilla tears it apart limb-from-limb or burns a hole out the back of its neck or tosses it into a nearby Volcano.

Recall Eowyn's "I AM NO MAN!" line in Lord of the Rings, by chance?

But let's say he counts as a weapon anyway. I'm also fairly certain that the Stygian Witches are unaware of Godzilla's capabilities given that Godzilla doesn't exist within the Clash of Titans universe, and so the statement that "no weapon can harm the Kraken" is limited to the set of weapons within the Clash of Titans universe (the context in which the statement was made) - a set which Godzilla is NOT a part of. Immunity from ancient/historical mundane weaponry and immunity from meteor-melting radiation are entirely different categories of immunity, and the Kraken is only stated to have the first.

Frankly, I don't put a lot of stock on stated facts about invulnerabilities unless that invulnerability is demonstrated, the enemy combatant's capabilities fall explicitly within the range of the stated invulnerability, or the enemy combatant is explicitly or implicitly taken into account (i.e. a male character from the Lord of the Rings universe regarding the Witch King's prophesy) when the stated fact is presented.

But you're making a lot of claims that I don't expressly recall from Clash of Titans, so perhaps my memory is lacking... When does it say the Kraken defeated ... Kronos, was it? 12 Titans? Perhaps you can help enlighten me on a few things:

What definitive strength feats has the Kraken shown which outdo the more outrageous strength feats that Godzilla has performed? (you stated the Kraken is stronger than Godzilla, but I don't recall his appearance being Godzilla-levels of impressive)

How familiar are you with Godzilla's Goon Gallery, particularly regarding enemies with multiple limbs and Godzilla's success/failure against them? (you stated it would be "over for godzilla" due to the Kraken's higher limb count)

What sort of destructive capability/striking feats has the Kraken shown to suggest that, even IF he's stronger/immune, he can get past Godzilla's Warp-level-99 regenerative capabilities? (You've stated the Kraken will win, so presumably you believe the Kraken can put Godzilla out)

What sort of capability have the Titans demonstrated, and according to who? (you stated that "they said kronos one of the titans can destroy the earth and scatter it across the universe", but who was "they?")

Did the Kraken take out all 12 Titans at the same time, or piecemeal? (You don't specify, and the first interpretation is exponentially more impressive than the second)

I'm not denying the Kraken can potentially win here (I'm simply not familiar enough with Titan/Kronos feats in the Clash of Titans universe to say a 12-titan-beatdown isn't sufficient to suggest the Kraken can put down the big G), but I'm seeing way too many speculations and presumptions of unlimited invulnerability, with way too few feats to back that up.

But... based on my memory of what the Kraken actually did, and based on my knowledge of what Godzilla is capable of, I'm leaning towards Godzilla purely because he has extensive feats demonstrating he can deal with and defeat opponents of the Kraken's visually apparent size, weight, strength, and speed.

The Kraken (and its cheerleaders in-universe) can obviously talk the talk, but only Godzilla has demonstrated that he can walk the walk. That's enough for me to give him the win here, at least until I can better qualify/quantify the feats the Kraken was stated to have performed.

The Kraken wins..Its magically enchantment would prove too much for Godzilla.

@unusual_suspect: well there saying no weapon can harm him but if you really pay attention neither can brute force by punches because all weapons really have almost no difference between punches bites ad attacks because the weapons in medieval times exert force and is sharp and punches exert only force so really that means that the kraken needs to handle an infinite amount of force and infinitely sharp objects if he can handle any weapon because then he still would get hurt so that means Godzilla cant hurt him by biting him scratching him punching him and anything else Godzilla cant do anything to the kraken and Godzilla also doesn't have magic do the thing id that means the only thing that killed the kraken is molecular transforming magic so next time use common sense people

Godzilla easy. Kraken has no feats and Titans in the movie have zero feats as well

Why bumping this stupid mismatch? Any version of Godzilla, even 98, stomps this featless abomination.

Godzilla kills this freak show!! Probably a one shot!!

@patrick_ryans: "No weapons can harm him" is stated with the inductive addendum of "among the mundane weapons that exist within the Clash of Titans universe" due to the source of that statement lacking insight into any other mundane weapon that COULD exist.

If I lived in a fictional universe where there was no cold iron, an immunity to everything BUT cold iron would be indistinguishable in universe from an immunity to everything INCLUDING cold iron. If I lived in a fictional universe where there is no radiation-based weapon, a stated immunity to "all mundane weapons" wouldn't necessitate that radiation could be shrugged off as easily as a knife, arrow, or bullet. That's what's underlying my argument of a No Limits Fallacy here, in that the in-universe statement is made in a context that does not include the quality and type of "weapon" that Godzilla can provide.

Appeals to common sense are problematic, as they are simultaneously appeals to fallacious reasoning (within the structure of this forum, minimally) in the form of a No Limits Fallacy based on an in-universe statement from an information source limited to in-universe weaponry.

Let's flesh out another example. Let's imagine a world of liliputians (the extremely small people detailed in Gulliver's Travels) that would be like liliputians to liliputians (so practically microscopic). Let's further imagine them to be relatively primative - using only swords, spears, and the like.

They encounter a 3m x 3m x 3m cube of pure steel.

Within the framework of the context of those lil' liliputians, that steel cube would almost certainly qualify for a "no weapons can harm it" statement, even though we (from our exponentially greater size, our exponentially greater knowledge base, and our exponentially more advanced technology) could harm it, with more or less difficulty based on the tools actually available at the time.

In DC, kryptonite is the only way in hell that I would stand a chance against Superman, because his durability is naturally so high that I'd have no means within the technology I have available to me (even theoretically including Nukes) to harm him. But even without kryptonite, Superman can still be beaten [nearly] to death by raw brute strength - that raw brute strength is simply unavailable to ME within my universe.

In the Clash of the Titans universe, the Kraken is very clearly a Big Fish... but the Clash of the Titans universe is effectively a Small Pond in the scheme of things, and crossing over to a bigger pond is going to lessen the Kraken's impressiveness proportionally.

Edit: You're unlikely to convince me using your unlimited immunity argument for the reasons stated above, though you may have convinced others. Though I can't and wouldn't suggest you stop responding regarding that train of thought, I would suggest you consider addressing other points for those, like me, who aren't finding your presumed unlimited invulnerability persuasive. Like I said, the Kraken could still win if the implied power it would take to defeat Titans is sufficient, but to believe that, I'd need to see some sort of basis for that contention.

Can you give us more information on:

When does it say the Kraken defeated ... Kronos, was it? 12 Titans? Perhaps you can help enlighten me on a few things:

What definitive strength feats has the Kraken shown which outdo the more outrageous strength feats that Godzilla has performed? (you stated the Kraken is stronger than Godzilla, but I don't recall his appearance being Godzilla-levels of impressive)

How familiar are you with Godzilla's Goon Gallery, particularly regarding enemies with multiple limbs and Godzilla's success/failure against them? (you stated it would be "over for godzilla" due to the Kraken's higher limb count)

What sort of destructive capability/striking feats has the Kraken shown to suggest that, even IF he's stronger/immune, he can get past Godzilla's Warp-level-99 regenerative capabilities? (You've stated the Kraken will win, so presumably you believe the Kraken can put Godzilla out)

What sort of capability have the Titans demonstrated, and according to who? (you stated that "they said kronos one of the titans can destroy the earth and scatter it across the universe", but who was "they?")

Did the Kraken take out all 12 Titans at the same time, or piecemeal? (You don't specify, and the first interpretation is exponentially more impressive than the second)

ok you Godzilla fan boys act like Godzilla is unstoppable and don't even except evidence of him losing this is the same with hulk fan boys you guys just have to thick of skulls so you know what all I have to say is EXEPT IT YOU GUYS PISS ME OFF SO IM NOT GOING TO COMMENT ANYMORE

@patrick_ryans: Yes, please stop.

Godzilla

how is kraken gonna beat godzilla when he probably can't even take out a jaeger from Pacific Rim

@patrick_ryans: You're only posted your opinion you didn't give any evidence

@patrick_ryans: Finding an argument unpersuasive (and I think I explained in reasonable detail why I didn't find your evidence persuasive) doesn't entail someone is stupid or brain-dead. Mutual respect is important for fruitful discussions. I have shown you respect in my responses, and I expect the same.

You could still convince those of us who support Godzilla (or at least some of us) by providing what I asked for, or as much of what I asked for as you can provide. The biggest issue is that the Kraken has very, very few feats on screen, and a great deal of his apparent power in-universe is by statement or by reference to other, mostly-featless beings. Part of judging a battle like this is getting a proper read on the demonstrated (on screen or by necessary induction and deduction) capabilities of the combatants.

If you provided some evidence regarding the capabilities of Titans, that would help us gauge the Kraken's potency. If you clarified the nature of the Kraken's combat with the Titans (fighting each separately, or fighting them together all at one time), that would help us gauge the Kraken's battlefield presence.

This is not a lecture hall, you are not a professor, and your word is not effectively the law in terms of what this community must accept. Instead, this is a debate forum which regulates and standardizes the relative value of different forms of evidence one could conceivably present (direct feats, off-panel feats, implied feats, feats by deduction, statements from authority figures, statements made in the heat of battle, etc., etc.), not unlike how a Court of Law will "put a thumb upon the scale" for or against forms of evidence presented in trial. Hearsay evidence is evidence, but it generally isn't GOOD evidence and gets discounted or disallowed for that reason. Similar results here regarding feats we haven't seen demonstrated or necessarily implied - application of healthy amounts of skepticism and a need for strong supporting context suggesting that it would be inappropriate to apply the general rule (that is, "if you didn't do it yet, we won't presume you can do it now").

Presenting evidence alone is not enough to win an argument. You have to present GOOD evidence, and support it.

Recall, if you will, that I've only conditionally granted Godzilla a win here, and that condition is entirely based on the unseen-but-claimed feats you've presented. I simply can't REASONABLY come to a different conclusion based on the quality and quantity of the evidence presented so far... but I can be persuaded if provided the context for those feats.

So, persuade me (and others). Give us context. Give us a better understanding. Some of us are on the fence or open to being persuaded, but "you guys just have to thick of skulls so you know what all I have to say is EXEPT IT YOU GUYS PISS ME OFF SO IM NOT GOING TO COMMENT ANYMORE" is not particularly persuasive to me, and I think you'll admit it would be no more persuasive to you. It certainly isn't particularly persuasive to other readers, which should probably be your main audience when it comes to debates like these.

If you are still disinclined to respond, I nevertheless wish you the best of luck moving forward. With any luck, if you don't provide the context, someone else might. I'm not terribly interested in doing the research myself, but I'm intrigued enough to be willing to read more.

@unusual_suspect: Admirable, but you're wasting your time. Might I suggest only employing logic amongst those with the capacity to comprehend it?

Well....... It is stated in COFT that The Kraken single handedly defeated all the titans. Kronos (1 from 12 titans) was said to have the power to scatter the earth across the universe. Kraken was also massive like hell. To put it into perspective, it was literally bigger than the city of Argos. One tentacle could stretch across the length of the city. Also the most powerful God in the Greek pantheon says it's invulnerable to damage......... And from what I understand, that's all that's really known about him.

My secret weapon is avoiding hypocrisy - It's tougher to demand respect where one fails to provide it oneself.

@unusual_suspect:

This still going on? Don't embarass yourselves, let this thread die. Because Godzilla curbstomps even in his weakest version.

here is my evidence

"" Well considering that in the film the Stygian Witches said that no weapon can harm the Kraken and it took a mystic molecular transformation to affect a win, I'm not sure what Godzilla can employ to overcome the Kraken, especially when you consider that the Kraken was meant to have subjegated the Titans. "

the kraken would be to much for Godzilla because Godzilla doesn't have any magic so that means he cant kill the kraken also the kraken took down 12 titans and just one of them is bad enough they said kronos one of the titans can destroy the earth a scatter it across the universe also kronos literally created the universe and imagine 12 of those not just that the kraken has 4 tentacles, 2 arms and obviously a mouth so once the kraken stars pumling at Godzilla he is not letting him up so its over for godzilla not just that how can godzilla kill something that cant be killed and is more strong then him so stop being fan boys" and that's the evidence you guys are just being stubborn and acting like I haven't said anything and acting like I'm invisible so IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF NUFF SAID! AND THIS WAS EVIDENCE FROM THE MOVIE NOT AN OPINION I DONT PLAY FANNBOY I LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE AND SEE WHO WOULD MORE LIKELY WIN SO HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS DO THE SAME