The Joker vs Lex Luthor

Luther wins unless they meet up close, then Joker bites his face off.

I'm sorry but Lex should stomp in h2h, Joker is just a crazy brawler who has plot shields against minor characters or just goes up against red shirts.

joker has become as overrated as batman because of that 1 okay movie.

Lex wins. he has more fire power and smarts.

Lex

Lex wins.

Lex should take this effortlessly.

Luthor wins

joker already beat lex in Salvation Run #6

That's the equivalent of beating Stark when he is trapped in the wilderness with nothing on him.

Even then Lex was beating him in h2h but the tides changed when the Joker used his acid flower. The fight would be horribly one sided if Lex had his toys.

yes he did, it was a brutal fight, lex gained the advantage and joker used a gadget to distract him and beat him. of course if luthor had his toys lex would win.

Lex Luthor.

Joker wins, he has more impressive prep feats, also he is too unpredictable for Luthor.

joker has more prep feats than luthor?

Well, it seems like it is usually the case that in order to truly defeat Joker you have to be able to think like Joker. And the only one who has ever been able to do that to a great enough extent is Batman.

All the money in the world isn't going to help Luthor here... much. Depends on the scenario. His greatest advantage is, and always has been, his genius intellect. But unfortunately, all the genius in the world won't allow Luthor to think the way the Joker does. Not only is Joker a genius in his own right, but he's unpredictable because he's completely insane (as many have already pointed out).

My vote goes to Joker - 7 out of 10. With or without prep time.

I don't know....

I'd say Luthor with prep honestly. Joker without.

Actually the only reason the Joker is still alive is because of Batman, he has saved his life on multiple occasions. His prep has never been impressive and much like the TDK involves everyone being stupid, when the armed cops never fired during the police van chase.

Most of the people here don't actually read Superman comics and get there info from respect threads but a guy who is capable of replacing his own body, creates creatures with strength greater than Superman (they always get beaten by speed), places a virus in his attacks that will kill Superman unaware and project his thoughts into remote controlled robots will have little trouble with the Joker.

The Joker

I hear you about Luthor, but... Joker's prep has never been impressive, you say?

Hmm... that's kind of a bold comment. :)

This makes no sense to me.

Joker is a great villain, smart, insane, and very very well written. However he is not a villain like Lex Luthor.

The only reason that Joker gets away with the things he does is because he is the main villain for the world's most popular comic hero. He has plot armor.

Being insane is not a combat tactic. If you stroll into a warzone in nothing but a purple suit you are still going to die insane or not.

Lex makes battle armor that can go toe to toe with Superman, Joker has a flower that squirts acid.

Do you see the strategic arms gap here?

You know what would happen if Joker was the main villain of a hero that killed? He would have been dead 40 years ago.

Joker is only going to get away with things because he is Batman's villain.

If this fight happened without any plot armor, Joker shows up with a big hammer, some laughing gas, and an acid flower, however Lex shows up with power armor, satellite lasers, and missile barrages.

This is nothing but a popularity contest.

If Joker is prepping for Luthor he's going to bring more than just a flower. Or, alternatively, not show up at all. This won't turn into a fist-fight -- it's going to go on and on, a constant loop of evasion and trickery as they elude and mock one another. It will be close -- brain against brain, tech against tech -- for ages, until Lex overestimates his ability to read people. He'll slip, and he'll realize that he fell into something he finally couldn't get out of. Lex's hubris vs. Joker's unpredictability gives the clown an eventual win.

Lex Luthor stomps.

lets put a smile on that face

The reason I like Luther as a character so much is because his intellect is brilliantly portrayed in the modern age. Superman banked on his hubris and challenged him to build a prison he can't break out of. He did just that so is currently in a prison with holographic guards he cannot manipulate, anti-matter cannons and walking through it kills anyone of normal durability among other things but none of this matters as he is manipulating events in the outside world via holographic projection and no one can trace it to him.

Jokers cunning is well written within the Batman books where Batman can be challenged by mortal men and doesn't need to be batgod. Outside it's terrible and is forgotten about afterwards or else the vast majority of supervillains would rip his head off the next time they see him, in the last laugh and again in salvation run where they have Lex saving his life because he has a handgun against a horde of paredemons. If they had cut to the scene when they exited that portal it would have had Grodd eating the Joker.

i think in the main point the joker is smarter then luthor and could beat him

I think the joker is being a bit misinterpreted. He's being suggested as some insane moron that would stroll to his death. Forgetting he's actually brilliant. Think of it this way, You have polymaths that have genius level intellect in more that one area. They have capabilities of being a genius is any field, that doesn't mean they actually are in every field. Bruce Wayne is a polymath, Von Doom, Richards and Luthor (probably) are polymaths. The Jokers character would thrive against them in a prep match because they're premise for strategy wouls rely on consistency and logic. 2 things the Joker is not. He is extremely unconventional and follows a distorted logic of illogic. That's why he's so dangerous. He represents chaos and disorder. I believe he'd have a field day with Lex. No offense to Luthor but he's as smart as Bruce (please don't debate that in this thread it's been done to no end on its own thread) but he's conceited. It's his problem with Supes and everyone else, feeling he should be superior and the worlds savior. The Joker is the epitome of doubt and the unknown. Lex is quantified, gameplan assurance tightass. I'm not saying the clown wins, merely hoping to correct some confusion. One of them is probably earths most conceited man, a robotics genius and technilogical savant whom utilizes his resources to prevail through logical strategy. The other: the most illogical, chaotic DC character possible, whom has no "consistent" MO and operates according to improbabilities. An attribute I feel would stomp Luthor in a prep match. Randomly, Lex isn't immune to the clowns laughing poison or electrocution or flower acid... Things he keeps on him. Lex doesn't carry weapons. He typically wears a suit... Just wanted to heat up the debate a bit

@mattferrar: Luthor is way smarter. Joker is just more cunning.

Lex curb-stomps Joker every day of the week:

The main point isn't that the Joker is being misinterpreted it's that the randomness factor is overrated on this board. On odd occasions it's used by a writer as a poor mans plot device to explain how a character got out of a situation. If you where to actually be truly random then that means you are much more likely to perform an inefficient action. To be considered unpredictable and actually perform efficient actions you need to be smarter than your opponent so that cannot comprehend your strategies.

The main factor is how badly underestimated Luthor is on this forum, his intelligence and feats of construction are obscene. Let's put it this way if I could cherry pick a few of his inventions I could beat the Joker with ease. Remember unlike Reed Richards Luthor has a lot more machinery designed around killing people.

Invention that finds and disables specific brainwaves.

Forcefields, for instance the one that protects his suit stands up to a few Superman level blows and shelters him in space.

Nanobots that would kill anything in the area that isn't him and would have killed Superman if he didn't receive outside help.

Makes super beings stronger and more durable but not as fast as Superman in nearly every other appearance.

Teleporters.

Durability enhancers.

Mind controlling devices a dime a dozen.

Robot armies

Portals that can travel through space and time.

Any manner of large scale laser, city wide gas dispersal, or bomb tailored to kill a specific person.

etc

and unlike the Joker who offends or crosses villains almost everytime they meet he has a lot of pull with the vast majority of supervillains. He saved nearly everyone of them in salvation run.

The Joker is intelligent and cunning but Luthor has these qualities to superhuman degrees.

Luthor

yes because Joker knows that he's insane and cant be delt with like another criminal so doesnt need to manipulate,courts like Lex, also the Joker knows Batman wont kill him and allows himself to be in these situations, and Joker was able to beat Ras al ghul at chess, and make his Joker venom effect all the villains in the slab and break out of it, seems pretty impressive to me and there are different types of crazy the type of crazy you are thinking is "stupid crazy" and then there is the other type of crazy like Hannibal Lecter crazy

Lex takes this if he's prepared.

Lex.

I've already been over the Last Laugh. Jokers last laugh was poorly written and like most of Jokers forays into the greater DC universe requires a lot of stupid things to happen and be ignored afterwards.

Joker mixed 2 chemicals together, his venom and suppressant within the prison. He in no way designed or had a chance to test how this would react. The jokerization was purely for plot purposes and has never been used or even mentioned again. The gas was shown effecting those that didn't even breath because they had them in the background.

Another scenario where he pisses of psychos that in way would fear him so they need it to be forgotten about or they would butcher hhim the next time he shows up at an Injustice gang/Secret Society meeting. There is a reason he only had c-list villains under his control.

Lex Luthor gets A-list villains to do what he needs without needing a one time only plot device. Joker does go through the courts but unlike Luthor who can convince the world at large that he may not be the monster that he is, no one actually trusts the Joker, he is represented by lawyers who use his infamy to boost their reputation.

The Joker is crazy we know this, it's been confirmed multiple times by the Martian and with actions that don't even have his best interests at heart. For what your actually saying to be true he would actually need to be sane.

As I've said before Joker is smart but he is not the unnatural comic book level of smart that Luthor is that allows him to break the laws of physics with a childs chemistry set..

Remember Luthor has and can beat Superman using his own technology he just hasn't killed him and Superman is a lot smarter within his own series because he doesn't need to worry about making Batman feel useless.

@dextersinister: your forgetting something its a comic book.. stupid things are supposed to happen, and yes it could have been written better (Last laugh) but Joker believed he was sick and dying, so he decided to screw the world over, now that his not sick anymore well and he doesn't want do do it again,

That's terrible logic, it was stupid it's PIS if it's PIS we ignore it for the purposes of what a character can actually do.

This is the shortened version of what happened. Joker gets sent to a different prison and is told he is dying, riot has started we don't see how, Joker is with the non-powered criminals despite one clearly having powers (a very dangerous unpredictable power) otherwise they couldn't explain how he breaks through walls, had his venom thrown in with the suppressant accomplished this in a prison he didn't know he was going to with plot magic, gas is released and for the purposes of plot the suppressant and the gas that kills you combines via plot magic to make them Joker lite so they'll follow his orders of random destruction.

If Luther made gas that had the same effect then used it on a villains society meeting and then ordered them to wreck sh*t up it, it would be well within his means to do so, would I consider that master prep, no I would not.

@dextersinister: you just really dont like it when batman and his little niche in the DC universe interacts with other parts dont you?

I hate bad story telling. Interacting with the greater DC universe is fine when it fits but trying to pass the Joker off as a high level threat is laughable and his plot armour prevents any realistic outcome.

In the current 52 he is a functional member of the Secret Society and that's fine. But as your argument has now boiled down to attacking my motives which are irrelevant and not actually addressing the point then I guess you have come to agree with me.

Lex stomps, he always has his War Suit with him almost wherever he goes, he played with a mind controlled Slade Wilson and only seemed like he was losing cus he pretty much stopped fighting to talk to himself, got flipped and kicked in the face, then was fighting off the mental control of the Black Lantern anomaly ....

Gallery

Joker gets murdered in one hit.

Me three......hmm hmm hmm.

joker wins i think even if lex is wereing his suit. joker made the batman get so angry he lost control. so he could easily make lex luthor angry. since luthor has less patience than batman. joker could trick lexy boy. into spilling coffee on his suit or somin like that i dont know. but the king of jokes wins.

you bumped a thread after 4 months just to say that....really?

/thread

Lex curbstomp the Joker with ease if he wants to.

Joker vs Lex luthor an interesting debate but I have to go with joker on this one because although Lex luthor is a technological genius he doesn't have the advantage joker does because jokers insane h doesn't know when enoughs enough he has no consience wereas lex luthor yea may be more intelligent but he knows when he's gone too far so he will eventually stop

does lex have the power suit, if so which one, oh and does the joker have standard gear. If the joker does have st gear and lex has 2 power suit then i think joker could win but he would have to lead lex into a trap to win. by the way when i say joker wins, i mean kills lex, but of corse because even if it were up to joker to knock out or kill, it would be kill

Joker because not even batman can predict his moves

@darkhunter89: Lex Luthor is way smarter than Batman

He is smarter. However the Joker is crazy. You can't predict what he's going to do next.

Luthor

And Lex is bald.